SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Reaper3Delta]

I feel like this whole section is REALLY obviously trying to tell us something, but also that it relies on the person observing to have knowledge of things like CC and also to have understood the links between the two at this point. For me, the first time I went through it left me with a really uneasy feeling, that something was very wrong about all of it just through the body language and unnatural way Cloud was acting at times. The stamps being stand ins for Zack were fairly obvious, and everything going wrong.

But I'm someone who knows what is going to happen and has played CC. It took me a few runs through and reading other people's observations to come to a point where I understand what's really going on here and what's being conveyed. I have seen streamers and other people soooort of get it, a little bit? But perhaps this is where it trips the 'maybe both girls' or 'look at them on a date!' types.

What I'm saying is it looks obvious to people who already know what's going on. This is one of those scenes that I imagine has been added for people playing through after they beat the whole series in like 3-4 years. We feel like they're being blunt and smacking us with this. Perhaps to other people it's too obscure. I like it though, I feel frustration is from the expectation for other people to care enough to think about it. Plus those people who wilfully misinterpret and yell their opinions to whoever they feel they can convince.

I agree mostly on what you say, but is not that difficult to see what the game tells, ngl we can miss a thing or two, even when you know the compilation, but like you said a lot of new players take for example youtubers and streamers that play blind without any knowledge and you can see they get the story easily. I feel bad for those that fall prey of the delulus in their chats. There is nothing worse than those "fans" that misinterpret (or do not play) the games + lore for shipping reasons and gaslight others about it.

 

[Xombii]

Yea, it's hard for me to see it as difficult to grasp, but I want to be generous and maybe figure out why people seem to miss the very obvious. The writing is clever and they definitely are sort of teasing the other side all the way through rebirth, to me it feels almost like mocking and poking fun at 'the delulus,' especially in costa. The issue being that the people these hints are intended for are willingly ignoring them with their 'Aer only' 'routes.'

Imagine getting the bad ending and thinking you won. I wonder if part three will make something of this.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

Yea, it's hard for me to see it as difficult to grasp, but I want to be generous and maybe figure out why people seem to miss the very obvious. The writing is clever and they definitely are sort of teasing the other side all the way through rebirth, to me it feels almost like mocking and poking fun at 'the delulus,' especially in costa. The issue being that the people these hints are intended for are willingly ignoring them with their 'Aer only' 'routes.'

Imagine getting the bad ending and thinking you won. I wonder if part three will make something of this.

The Devs have stated from the beginning there is little room for interpretation and the games are clearly showing the direction they are headed. Even with the games poking fun or mocking "them" like you said, the fact that "they" are still willingly gaslighting themselves for shipping reasons tells you they are not true fans of the series. IMHO Aerith's resolution in Remake is a blatant message for the players and Sephiroth's "cloudy eyes" too. Don't bother with those that won't accept the story as it is, the Devs know "them" and they said there is nothing they can do about it.
Thank God FF7 is a linear game with only one ending.

 

[Ryushikaze]

You know what gets me? Cleriths never call out bad takes and bullshit in their fandom. Or at least it seems that way. People getting caught out as being undeniable liars and making absolute shit up and yet other folks in the shipdom still keep going to bat for them and the nonsense they spew.

 

[GamerSkull]

You know what gets me? Cleriths never call out bad takes and bullshit in their fandom. Or at least it seems that way. People getting caught out as being undeniable liars and making absolute shit up and yet other folks in the shipdom still keep going to bat for them and the nonsense they spew.

This feels directed at a specific one most of us seem to be aware of lmao.

I mean... Clotis have that Silverwield person that goes overboard.

 

[Ryushikaze]

This feels directed at a specific one most of us seem to be aware of lmao.

I mean... Clotis have that Silverwield person that goes overboard.

A few of them.

As for Silverwield, not familiar with his/her antics. Details?

 

[GamerSkull]

A few of them.

As for Silverwield, not familiar with his/her antics. Details?

I'm not overly familiar either but I've heard many people in this thread mention them as a toxic Cloti.

I believe they also called Cloud emotionally manipulative after the NTPK trailer, IIRC.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

You know what gets me? Cleriths never call out bad takes and bullshit in their fandom. Or at least it seems that way. People getting caught out as being undeniable liars and making absolute shit up and yet other folks in the shipdom still keep going to bat for them and the nonsense they spew.

The power of conviction and gaslighting on the weak minded.
As for Silverwield she does not spread lies like the toxic cleariths, she debates with facts and evidence. She completely dislikes Aerith for the way she treats Tifa (backstabbing your true and only BFF).

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm not overly familiar either but I've heard many people in this thread mention them as a toxic Cloti.

I believe they also called Cloud emotionally manipulative after the NTPK trailer, IIRC.

The power of conviction and gaslighting on the weak minded.
As for Silverwield she does not spread lies like the toxic cleariths, she debates with facts and evidence. She completely dislikes Aerith for the way she treats Tifa (backstabbing your true and only BFF).

Yeah, the crime of being a jackass isn't quite the same as editing screenshots and faking evidence and defending those people.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, the crime of being a jackass isn't quite the same as editing screenshots and faking evidence and defending those people.

There was one that provided "evidence" that if you do the least amount of side content, you get the Aerith date.

I just don't believe most players would choose to not do any of the side content. There will be some who do all or just some of it... but rare is the person who does NONE of it.

That also ignores the fact that a lot of the time in games; the best outcome needs to be "earned" anyway... so doing the least amount of content would give you a lesser outcome.

 

[Shadowstorm]

There was one that provided "evidence" that if you do the least amount of side content, you get the Aerith date.

I just don't believe most players would choose to not do any of the side content. There will be some who do all or just some of it... but rare is the person who does NONE of it.

That also ignores the fact that a lot of the time in games; the best outcome needs to be "earned" anyway... so doing the least amount of content would give you a lesser outcome.

Isn't it way more common for this type of game to consider everything canon than to consider nothing canon? I mean Rebirth goes as far as to reference Tifa winning an optional mini game chain, I think it's safe to assume the canon route would be to just do everything

 

[Ryushikaze]

There was one that provided "evidence" that if you do the least amount of side content, you get the Aerith date.

I just don't believe most players would choose to not do any of the side content. There will be some who do all or just some of it... but rare is the person who does NONE of it.

That also ignores the fact that a lot of the time in games; the best outcome needs to be "earned" anyway... so doing the least amount of content would give you a lesser outcome.

This is not true, though. If you do the least amount of side content you get the boys night date.
Also IIRC that was Cali and her point was that "Aerith gets more affection than Tifa if you do the absolute minimum, but A: she did not explain her methodology B: her results are immediately suspect because you can see she did the costume bonus for Aerith but not Tifa and most importantly C: The affection meter doesn't represent Cloud's feelings, and almost certainly doesn't actually change how the characters see cloud in the narrative anyways.

And yeah, generally you assume the player does everything. And in situations where that's literally not possible and the question of which version happened is not answered you tend to assume none and/or all happened, sort of like how None of the dates is canon but all of them are true.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

There was one that provided "evidence" that if you do the least amount of side content, you get the Aerith date.

I just don't believe most players would choose to not do any of the side content. There will be some who do all or just some of it... but rare is the person who does NONE of it.

That also ignores the fact that a lot of the time in games; the best outcome needs to be "earned" anyway... so doing the least amount of content would give you a lesser outcome.

The fact that you (the player) needs to do other character's sidequest to unlock Tifa's, make earning that kiss even more rewarding.

 

[GamerSkull]

Isn't it way more common for this type of game to consider everything canon than to consider nothing canon? I mean Rebirth goes as far as to reference Tifa winning an optional mini game chain, I think it's safe to assume the canon route would be to just do everything

Yeah, the game does assume you did all the optional stuff in the last game. So it's likely that Part 3 will assume you did all of the content. For instance, I have not done the Gilgamesh fight but I bet you the next game will act like I did.

This is not true, though. If you do the least amount of side content you get the boys night date.
Also IIRC that was Cali and her point was that "Aerith gets more affection than Tifa if you do the absolute minimum, but A: she did not explain her methodology B: her results are immediately suspect because you can see she did the costume bonus for Aerith but not Tifa and most importantly C: The affection meter doesn't represent Cloud's feelings, and almost certainly doesn't actually change how the characters see cloud in the narrative anyways.

And yeah, generally you assume the player does everything. And in situations where that's literally not possible and the question of which version happened is not answered you tend to assume none and/or all happened, sort of like how None of the dates is canon but all of them are true.

Really? For some reason, I was under the impression you can't get the Boys Night Date until chapter select. Weird, now I'm wondering where I heard that.

The person I saw use that "evidence" showed the play log for both characters I think. But it does not tell us what dialogue options they used. It's quite possible they gave the worst responses to Tifa and the best to Aerith.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, the game does assume you did all the optional stuff in the last game. So it's likely that Part 3 will assume you did all of the content. For instance, I have not done the Gilgamesh fight but I bet you the next game will act like I did.


Really? For some reason, I was under the impression you can't get the Boys Night Date until chapter select. Weird, now I'm wondering where I heard that.

The person I saw use that "evidence" showed the play log for both characters I think. But it does not tell us what dialogue options they used. It's quite possible they gave the worst responses to Tifa and the best to Aerith.

Yeah, and that play log shows that she gave Aerith the same Clothes bump and Tifa the beach fight bump instead of determining what the actual bump value might be and normalizing it. It's very poor science all around.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, and that play log shows that she gave Aerith the same Clothes bump and Tifa the beach fight bump instead of determining what the actual bump value might be and normalizing it. It's very poor science all around.

I remember playing with the full intention of wanting Tifa as a date but my OCD made it so I had to do all the sidequests and try to be as nice as possible to everyone. So by the time I got to it, I fully expected not to get her. But I did, after doing all the sidequests. But I think I got the beach fight and clothes bump for Tifa so that was probably what did it.

I think it was also probably due to dialogue as I think there may have been once instance where I gave Aerith a middle response.

 

[abzy1200]

As for Silverwield, not familiar with his/her antics. Details?

 

[Ryushikaze]

I remember playing with the full intention of wanting Tifa as a date but my OCD made it so I had to do all the sidequests and try to be as nice as possible to everyone. So by the time I got to it, I fully expected not to get her. But I did, after doing all the sidequests. But I think I got the beach fight and clothes bump for Tifa so that was probably what did it.

I think it was also probably due to dialogue as I think there may have been once instance where I gave Aerith a middle response.

I'm actually curious about the mechanical breakdown of the sidequests and the value they add to the AV. I know I didn't do all the sidequests perfectly the first time around and didn't do the Maru quest until after the date, but I still got Tifa's date, and I was trying to max out everyone's affinity (Barret was my lowest, I think, at 85%)

I know the discussion answers are worth between 1 and 3 points, IIRC, because I am 2 points away from 100% on Tifa and I'm about as many points shy from maxing out her dialogue options. I know the Beach fight option is almost certainly 5 or less points worth of "affinity" because I haven't gone back for Aerith's version of that fight and I think that's how many points away from max she is.

 

[Eerie]

Yeah, and that play log shows that she gave Aerith the same Clothes bump and Tifa the beach fight bump instead of determining what the actual bump value might be and normalizing it. It's very poor science all around.

I mean, isn't it Cali who made this?

 

[Reaper3Delta]

I mean, isn't it Cali who made this?

Margot actually.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm actually curious about the mechanical breakdown of the sidequests and the value they add to the AV. I know I didn't do all the sidequests perfectly the first time around and didn't do the Maru quest until after the date, but I still got Tifa's date, and I was trying to max out everyone's affinity (Barret was my lowest, I think, at 85%)

I know the discussion answers are worth between 1 and 3 points, IIRC, because I am 2 points away from 100% on Tifa and I'm about as many points shy from maxing out her dialogue options. I know the Beach fight option is almost certainly 5 or less points worth of "affinity" because I haven't gone back for Aerith's version of that fight and I think that's how many points away from max she is.

Yeah, I'm curious about it too. Moreover, I would actually like to know what doing EVERYTHING results in but I guess the beachwear and the beach fight are the tiebreakers in any case. (much like who Cloud talks to first in the sewers in Remake)

 

[pxl_pushr]

The fact that you (the player) needs to do other character's sidequest to unlock Tifa's, make earning that kiss even more rewarding.

This right here is why I say it’s much more plausible to assume the “canon” of the story is that all sidequests got done and all affinity was maxed out by the end.

Part 3 will be written with that mentality without going into too much detail about the rebirth sidequests.

That all sounded like an attempt to revive the argument about the affinity scores in OG, and it’s just as silly imo.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I mean, isn't it Cali who made this?

Margot actually.

Thank you for the correction. In my defense, they're both self X Cloud shippers and have similar PFPs. I hear Margot used to "be" a CT but switched sides over a disagreement. Does anyone know what that was about or what she was up to before switching sides? Was she just as annoying beforehand?

Yeah, I'm curious about it too. Moreover, I would actually like to know what doing EVERYTHING results in but I guess the beachwear and the beach fight are the tiebreakers in any case. (much like who Cloud talks to first in the sewers in Remake)

In the even of an absolute 100% across the board tie it's whoever is closer to Cloud in your party roster.
In a single playthrough, though, there are two make or break points. The Beach Battle and the Corel cart route.
Even then I THINK that only narrows it down to T or A, Y or B, and Red XIII

 

[GamerSkull]

Thank you for the correction. In my defense, they're both self X Cloud shippers and have similar PFPs. I hear Margot used to "be" a CT but switched sides over a disagreement. Does anyone know what that was about or what she was up to before switching sides? Was she just as annoying beforehand?



In the even of an absolute 100% across the board tie it's whoever is closer to Cloud in your party roster.
In a single playthrough, though, there are two make or break points. The Beach Battle and the Corel cart route.
Even then I THINK that only narrows it down to T or A, Y or B, and Red XIII

Not sure why she switched but I do know she believes that Tifa treats Cloud really badly... and so she doesn't deserve him or something like that. Stuff like how she treats him as a kid, and the stuff in the CoT, and probably how she yells at him in AC. (I suppose it will never matter that her actions during their childhood being bad have been debunked by more accurate translations and ToTP.)

Which I gotta say, if you're in a relationship and your partner acts the way Cloud did, then it is absolutely okay to call him out on it. Because otherwise, this essentially implies that Tifa should just lie down and accept Cloud's behavior. Not to mention, I think Aerith would be just as frustrated with him in the same scenario. But I guess they feel Cloud wouldn't behave that way if he was with Aerith.

As far as the points stuff, Red XIII also gets points with Tifa during the beach fight I think. So I guess what I really want to know is the exact point value each character can get and how to get them, and what decisions exclude getting them because choosing Aerith and Barret I think would mean that you've also lost out on potential Red points.

 

[abzy1200]

Which I gotta say, if you're in a relationship and your partner acts the way Cloud did, then it is absolutely okay to call him out on it. Because otherwise, this essentially implies that Tifa should just lie down and accept Cloud's behavior. Not to mention, I think Aerith would be just as frustrated with him in the same scenario.

People arguing this scene in bad faith against Tifa only tells me that said person is a massive dumbass. If Tifa really didn't care about Cloud, or straight up didn't like him, she would just leave him do what he wanted to; rot away.

Just take someone who's your friend, for example. Anybody who genuinely cares about their friend wouldn't just let them end things.