SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Reaper3Delta]

People arguing this scene in bad faith against Tifa only tells me that said person is a massive dumbass. If Tifa really didn't care about Cloud, she would just leave him do what he wanted to; rot away.

Just take someone who's your friend, for example. Anybody who genuinely cares about their friend wouldn't just let them end things.

Yes, Tifa had to show some 'Tough Love' to Cloud for him to react. When he tells Tifa "I lost some weight, maybe all that Dilly Dally" confirms Tifa was right. Even Aerith repeating Dilli Dalli Shilly Shally confirms Tifa's.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

Not sure why she switched but I do know she believes that Tifa treats Cloud really badly... and so she doesn't deserve him or something like that. Stuff like how she treats him as a kid, and the stuff in the CoT, and probably how she yells at him in AC. (I suppose it will never matter that her actions during their childhood being bad have been debunked by more accurate translations and ToTP.)

For what I have read about her so far, She self-inserts in a relationship with Cloud, maybe back when she was "Cloti" she was the same way, extremist and toxic on both sides.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yes, Tifa had to show some 'Tough Love' to Cloud for him to react. When he tells Tifa "I lost some weight, maybe all that Dilly Dally" confirms Tifa was right. Even Aerith repeating Dilli Dalli Shilly Shally confirms Tifa's.

For what I have read about her so far, She self-inserts in a relationship with Cloud, maybe back when she was "Cloti" she was the same way, extremist and toxic on both sides.

In any case, I just think people treat Tifa in CoT and ACC with bad faith. I also think it's quite interesting and strange that they believe relationships should always be sunshine and rainbows and that there is no struggle once two people become a couple. Do they believe Cloud and Aerith would be in perpetual honeymoon-phase? I doubt it, especially since Nomura (or was it Nojima) indicated she would basically have to do all the work in the relationship and coax Cloud to reciprocate. (In fact, that's basically how it works in Remake Trilogy so far)

 

[pxl_pushr]

I mean, his mom nailed it, Cloud needs someone mature who will tell him when he’s being a dumbass er a “silly goose”.

 

[GamerSkull]

I mean, his mom nailed it, Cloud needs someone mature who will tell him when he’s being a dumbass er a “silly goose”.

Well, she was talking about Aerith.

You know, I still sorta subscribe to it being a reference to Aerith since she says "older woman" in the OG. But I think a lot of CAs treat it as fact so no matter what, Claudia is referring to someone like Aerith in their eyes.

Let's be honest, they probably would be okay with Aerith calling Cloud out for his behavior. Just not Tifa.

 

[abzy1200]

You know, I still sorta subscribe to it being a reference to Aerith since she says "older woman" in the OG. But I think a lot of CAs treat it as fact so no matter what, Claudia is referring to someone like Aerith in their eyes.

So, I'm pretty sure that's not entirely accurate. What Claudia says is "like an older sister" (chotto onee-san, I think). I think it's the same in the jp version of the original? can't really confirm that though.

I don't want to be that guy, but from what I've heard, obviously cannot confirm this because I'm not Japanese, older sisters are seen as responsible, that's what Claudia is referring to, someone who's responsible and can take care of him, the english just hyperfocuses on the "older" part, but the person's age isn't really what's relevant here.

I can't subscribe to Aerith being the one hinted at here by Claudia, especially not after, just a few days before this scene chronologically, Tifa told Claudia ambitions Cloud has that he didn't tell his mother. From her reaction, I think it's obvious she came to a conclusion in her head about Cloud and his motivations.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

So, I'm pretty sure that's not entirely accurate. What Claudia says is "like an older sister" (chotto onee-san, I think). I think it's the same in the jp version of the original? can't really confirm that though.

I don't want to be that guy, but from what I've heard, obviously cannot confirm this because I'm not Japanese, older sisters are seen as responsible, that's what Claudia is referring to, someone who's responsible and can take care of him, the english just hyperfocuses on the "older" part, but the person's age isn't really what's relevant here.

I can't subscribe to Aerith being the one hinted at here by Claudia, especially not after, just a few days before this scene chronologically, Tifa told Claudia ambitions Cloud has that he didn't tell his mother. From her reaction, I think it's obvious she came to a conclusion in her head about Cloud and his motivations.

Claudia's reaction to Tifa: Oh my...Oh my... lol! yeah def hinting Aerith.
Anywho looks like a fan theorist shot himself in the foot with an Aerith's death insertion on the LSS theory.

 

[GamerSkull]

Claudia's reaction to Tifa: Oh my...Oh my... lol! yeah def hinting Aerith.
Anywho looks like a fan theorist shot himself in the foot with an Aerith's death insertion on the LSS theory.

I don’t think Aerith is gonna be wholly relevant to it anyway. Most of it is about Tifa and Cloud’s memories so she would literally be third-wheeling there.

 

[Nancy]

My coworker sent me this and I burst out laughing lmfao

CA really love making themselves look stupid going on and on about Hollow and NTPK and 'change my mind' when they wouldn't work when she already wrote 'I will die on this hill'

 

[GamerSkull]

In fact. Zack is actually more relevant to the LS sequence than Aerith.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Claudia's reaction to Tifa: Oh my...Oh my... lol! yeah def hinting Aerith.
Anywho looks like a fan theorist shot himself in the foot with an Aerith's death insertion on the LSS theory.

Yeah, it seems to be a popular one to throw in there. I get the logic but I’m not subscribing to it.

I do think it’ll be more of a gameplay section than a long info dump ( for example, I think you’ll fight beside a memory of false Cloud/Zack in the Nibelheim Incident section, but Tifa still leads the show ).

I can see why people think Aerith’s death will get shown though. SE obviously have something up their sleeve in terms of experimenting with showing her death scene and water burial.

 

[Shadowstorm]

My best guess is they'll show the death itself as part of Sephiroth fucking with Cloud in Northern Crater, and the water burial later on when they go back to the Forgotten Capital.

I kinda got the feeling one of the reasons they added Cloud being in denial over Aerith's death was to make sure he still had some kind of arc after he becomes his true self again. That way they can justify having the Lifestream sequence fairly early in the game (so the main character isn't out of commission for half the story lol) without the issue of his internal conflict being fully resolved with that much game still left. Putting that resolution in the Lifestream sequence just puts you back to square one while the Forgotten Capital is very close to the end and pretty uneventful in the original

 

[Eerie]

As I said yesterday, IIRC, there are three Lifestream hints between Remake and Rebirth and they’re all CT scenes. So I really wonder how they expect the Lifestream scene in p3 to be anything but a CT scene

 

[Ryushikaze]

As I said yesterday, IIRC, there are three Lifestream hints between Remake and Rebirth and they’re all CT scenes. So I really wonder how they expect the Lifestream scene in p3 to be anything but a CT scene

Honestly, they don't expect it. They know it's a Tifa scene, but they want it for Aerith because they feel entitled to it. Same with wanting to change the highwind scene (IIRC, there was some sort of peitioning the devs about that. Anyone got a screencap?)

 

[Eerie]

There are a lot of theorybros who believe that we’ll see Aerith’s death in the LS though, and that’s so missing the point completely about the LS, so I’m always in my corner, wondering why they insist on making a romance and truth scene into something else. The Lifestream scene is hugely hinted at twice in Rebirth, in Gongaga and Tifa’s trial, and they’re all writing those scenes off because they can’t imagine Aerith’s death scene couldn’t be part of the climax.

Btw for Tifa’s trial, you guys should check this, it’s brilliant:

 

[Ryeleigh]

You know, I still sorta subscribe to it being a reference to Aerith since she says "older woman" in the OG. But I think a lot of CAs treat it as fact so no matter what, Claudia is referring to someone like Aerith in their eyes.

You know, even though I see Aerith and Cloud's dynamic as similar to an anime older sister and long-suffering little brother, I also see Aerith as child-like. Not childish but it's just like the way she carries herself, the way she talks, etc that makes me think that she's supposed to typify innocence.

As for the Claudia flashback itself, I think it's really telling that when Cloud wakes up, he immediately wants to get back to Tifa, lol.

Edit: Fixed Claudia's name, lol.

 

[Empyrea]

You know, even though I see Aerith and Cloud's dynamic as similar to an anime older sister and long-suffering little brother, I also see Aerith as child-like. Not childish but it's just like the way she carries herself, the way she talks, etc that makes me think that she's supposed to typify innocence.

As for the Claudie flashback itself, I think it's really telling that when Cloud wakes up, he immediately wants to get back to Tifa, lol.

delurking for a moment

I see it as Cloud and Aerith both having the younger sibling energy -- one wants to be indulged while the other pretends to be so above it all. No incarnation of Aerith ever struck me as the older-sister figure, cause as you said, she's very child-like.

 

[Sacky]

Thank you for the correction. In my defense, they're both self X Cloud shippers and have similar PFPs. I hear Margot used to "be" a CT but switched sides over a disagreement. Does anyone know what that was about or what she was up to before switching sides? Was she just as annoying beforehand?

Funny enough she was arguing on twitter back in the day against cleriths about Cloti being canon since she had all the books and ultimanias. Then in a Facebook's group chat got into personal drama with some clotis and then went rogue and now toxic CA look up to her but really it's just a borderline obsession with Cloud as a character it's quite creepy

 

[GamerSkull]

There are a lot of theorybros who believe that we’ll see Aerith’s death in the LS though, and that’s so missing the point completely about the LS, so I’m always in my corner, wondering why they insist on making a romance and truth scene into something else. The Lifestream scene is hugely hinted at twice in Rebirth, in Gongaga and Tifa’s trial, and they’re all writing those scenes off because they can’t imagine Aerith’s death scene couldn’t be part of the climax.

Btw for Tifa’s trial, you guys should check this, it’s brilliant:

I think it’s lost on people who specific it is to just Cloud and Tifa. But I think the devs are aware of this and I doubt they’ll throw more characters in. They might change it up a bit or add more gameplay to it, but I’m 90% sure it’s just gonna be Cloud and Tifa.

 

[GamerSkull]

Honestly, they don't expect it. They know it's a Tifa scene, but they want it for Aerith because they feel entitled to it. Same with wanting to change the highwind scene (IIRC, there was some sort of peitioning the devs about that. Anyone got a screencap?)

I’m gonna actually be nice and say that some of the people theorizing it don’t quite understand how central it is to Tifa and Cloud specifically in the OG. I think I saw some popular FF YouTubers have it too… which makes me doubt their FF cred lol

 

[Shadowstorm]

I think maybe part of it is that they, understandably, try to be above ship wars, and as part of that end up brushing the romance aside as unimportant alltogether. Which obviously just kneecaps their ability to understand the story since romance is in fact a central part of Cloud's character arc.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think maybe part of it is that they, understandably, try to be above ship wars, and as part of that end up brushing the romance aside as unimportant alltogether. Which obviously just kneecaps their ability to understand the story since romance is in fact a central part of Cloud's character arc.

Yeah, while I agree that it’s not at the forefront like FFVIII and FFX, the romance aspect of the story is still important. At least more important than some claim it is.

It’s also why the LTD needs to end. As soon as we stop fighting over what’s canon, we can actually talk about how it works in service to the overall plot.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah, while I agree that it’s not at the forefront like FFVIII and FFX, the romance aspect of the story is still important. At least more important than some claim it is.

It’s also why the LTD needs to end. As soon as we stop fighting over what’s canon, we can actually talk about how it works in service to the overall plot.

Honestly! Like why are we arguing about which girl is the love interest when we could be talking about what the romantic subplot does for the story and its' themes? It's like we have to have a debate just to establish what the text we're discussing even is.

 

[GamerSkull]

Honestly! Like why are we arguing about which girl is the love interest when we could be talking about what the romantic subplot does for the story and its' themes? It's like we have to have a debate just to establish what the text we're discussing even is.

That's my issue actually. I feel like mentioning the LS sequence and Cloud and Tifa's importance to each other derails any discussion into shipping discourse, even if the intent was to talk about what it means in service to the plot.

Because of the LTD, it's almost like you can't mention it. But then it basically makes it hard to discuss why that relationship is so important.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Exactly! It even hurts the discussion of things outside of that scene and that relationship in particular. I have lots of thoughts about what might happen in part 3 but it's hard to talk about them because I feel like I have to avoid acknowledging the romance even exists in vicinity of it in order to not be saying anything controversial.

For example: One of the things I'm most curious about going forward is Yuffie's arc! She didn't have much of one in the OG and I think they've set something really interesting up with Wutai also hunting for the Magnus Materia. In Nibelheim they included her trying to urge Cloud and Tifa(and by extension the group) to join her side, clearly showing that she has conflicting loyalties now and doesn't want to have to choose. I think, to replace the pick-pocketing plotline from the OG, she's gonna be placed in a position where she has to choose between helping Wutai and helping Avalanche get the Materia and I think Aerith being dead, Cloud being comatose, and Tifa staying behind with Cloud might have destablized the group enough for her to choose Wutai

But in order to talk about that I have to assume A. Aerith is in fact dead. B. Tifa will stay behind to take care of Cloud rather than sticking with the team, and C. Restoring Cloud's mind isn't gonna be some kind of group project, and all of those things are hot takes apparently