SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Roundhouse]

My thoughts are that this is not going to be resolved clearly, just as in the OG. Ambiguity is perfect for this situation, and SE know this. Why upset fans of Cloud/Tifa or Cloud/Aerith? Just give both of them something to hold on to, much as in the original game. Looking back, it's clever stuff, the whole points mechanic, considering the era and all.

 

[BlankBeat]

I'm genuinely curious what y'all think of this quote:

“Gradually, Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior.​

It is the heroine, Aerith, who opens Cloud’s eyes, and helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past.”​

~Square Enix​

The MOST OBVIOUS transformation of Cloud's "frosty exterior" in the Remake is when he starts doing high-five's with Aerith on the reg.

At first Cloud rejects them. Then he is about to give one but stops short. Then, you have to hold the triangle button down so he gives Aerith a high-five. Then, he gives Aerith an automatic high-five at the battle arena. A clear-cut, distinct transformation.

Anyway -- I'm curious what you think of this.

Both how Aerith "melts Cloud's frosty exterior," and how she "helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past."

 

[looneymoon]

I thought he was trying to kiss her and failed, but unfortunately my boi is a bigger dumb bum that I thought possible

 

[null]

My thoughts are that this is not going to be resolved clearly, just as in the OG. Ambiguity is perfect for this situation, and SE know this. Why upset fans of Cloud/Tifa or Cloud/Aerith? Just give both of them something to hold on to, much as in the original game. Looking back, it's clever stuff, the whole points mechanic, considering the era and all.

I think you're 100% right about how SE milks the situation - shippers are easy money - but I always hated the pseudo random date mechanics. Give players meaningful choices. Remake isn't quite as haphazard, but I still don't like the way it uses performance/completion as a carrot. Like instead of the Tifa Tumble, Cloud dives out the train window if the timer goes to 0:00 (which I find hysterically funny, but point still stands).

 

[Maidenofwar]

In Chapter 8 when Oates asks Cloud to help the people of Sector 5 Cloud says he's on the clock i.e he's already working for Aerith and he's well aware of the payment/deal by that point.

I also like this exchange before they first get to Sector 5

"I'm paying you right now" "Huh" "Huh" "Ohhh"

Paints Cloud's "I'll do it!" in a new light. This scene can also be read as him being eager about the date and simply not wanting to risk Elmyra's ire.

Also doesn't the new Ultimania say Aerith remains pure of heart, etc despite her rough past, and that they (those working on the game) took great care in the way she was presented? The girl is not toxic. At no point does Cloud say "No" or refuse the date.

 

[Graymouse]

I'm genuinely curious what y'all think of this quote:

“Gradually, Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior.​

It is the heroine, Aerith, who opens Cloud’s eyes, and helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past.”​

~Square Enix​

The MOST OBVIOUS transformation of Cloud's "frosty exterior" in the Remake is when he starts doing high-five's with Aerith on the reg.

At first Cloud rejects them. Then he is about to give one but stops short. Then, you have to hold the triangle button down so he gives Aerith a high-five. Then, he gives Aerith an automatic high-five at the battle arena. A clear-cut, distinct transformation.

Anyway -- I'm curious what you think of this.

Both how Aerith "melts Cloud's frosty exterior," and how she "helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past."

I saw this very differently and for contex, how many times did Aerith try and do the high five and yet Cloud ignored her.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I felt this is more like Pavlov's dog study. If she does it enough, of course Cloud will eventually respond.

 

[LNK]

Gradually, Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior.
It is the heroine, Aerith, who opens Cloud’s eyes, and helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past.”
~Square Enix

I think that fits more to the OG, than the remake.

The MOST OBVIOUS transformation of Cloud's "frosty exterior" in the Remake is when he starts doing high-five's with Aerith on the reg.

At first Cloud rejects them. Then he is about to give one but stops short. Then, you have to hold the triangle button down so he gives Aerith a high-five. Then, he gives Aerith an automatic high-five at the battle arena. A clear-cut, distinct transformation.

I think Jessie was the one who broke through first. Not denying that Aerith didn't break through to Cloud. He progressed with all three girls

 

[Cat on Mars]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I felt this is more like Pavlov's dog study. If she does it enough, of course Cloud will eventually respond.

LMAO. Aerith should have used dog treats, that's how you train them
Unlike Red XIII, Cloud is a barely house-trained pup regarding social interation.

 

[BlankBeat]

I just think the idea that Aerith melts Cloud's frosty exterior and helps him find his true self is something that people didn't commonly think when the OG first came out.

Everyone said Aerith didn't know the real Cloud.

But now we have confirmation that Aerith did, in-fact, know the real Cloud. She helped bring his real self back to the surface.

Aerith helped Cloud rediscover his past.

 

[LNK]

Also doesn't the new Ultimania say Aerith remains pure of heart, etc despite her rough past, and that they (those working on the game) took great care in the way she was presented? The girl is not toxic. At no point does Cloud say "No" or refuse the date

I'm not agreeing with the people that say she's toxic. I'm just saying I can see why they would think that.

 

[Odysseus]

I think that fits more to the OG, than the remake.




I think Jessie was the one who broke through first. Not denying that Aerith didn't break through to Cloud. He progressed with all three girls

My man

I cannot believe this debate is actually taking off again. Personally I feel like both Tifa and Aerith fans are reading way too much into certain interactions to find romantic subtext, but I guess that's just how shipping be.

 

[LNK]

I just think the idea that Aerith melts Cloud's frosty exterior and helps him find his true self is something that people didn't commonly think when the OG first came out.

Idk. I can't really speak to that. I also didn't know people were this passionate about shipping one pair over the other. But, when it comes to the remake, all 3 girls contributed to melting Cloud's exterior.

 

[ForceStealer]

I specifically said in the chapter threads that I was glad they still managed to show that Aerith was having an effect on bringing him out of his shell even though Tifa and Jessie did some of the lifting this time around. So I don't think that is an uncommon interpretation of things in the OG.

 

[LNK]

My man

I cannot believe this debate is actually taking off again. Personally I feel like both Tifa and Aerith fans are reading way too much into certain interactions to find romantic subtext, but I guess that's just how shipping be.

Lol I never knew it was even like this. I personally favor Tifa, but I can't deny what's there with Aerith. I think SE wanted it that way

 

[Yumelinh]

Aerith brings to the surface a REAL memory of Cloud's mother wanting him to have an "older" girlfriend. His Mother also tells Cloud to find someone who calls him a "silly goose." Aerith calls Cloud a "silly goose" in the Remake.

Please don't forget this quote, either:

​

“Gradually, Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior.​

​

It is the heroine, Aerith, who opens Cloud’s eyes, and helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past.”​

~Square Enix​

Not denying Cloud's dream about his mother and the "older girl" comment was related to Aerith ( whenever it was supposed to hint CxA as endgame or a red herring is up to discussion tho).

Also, my question was about the Remake Ultimania quote that specifically says Cloud's true self emerges around Tifa, but if you want to talk about "melt Cloud's facade" wasn't the Avalanche trio mentioned as being the first ones to be able to do so? Even Tifa's commented about how Cloud was "losing his hard edges", all this bf he even truly interact with Aerith (see? I can nitpick too )

 

[Odysseus]

In the OG it was solely Aerith that made Cloud be less of a dick, I won't deny that. That progression for his character wouldn't work in a 45 hour game where she only enters the picture half way through, so its only natural some of the burden was given to the other girls. Jessie makes him crack his first smile, Tifa gets him to play nice with the locals, fuckin WEDGE makes him laugh for the first time; everybody played a part. That said, its still chapters 8 & 9 where he really comes around. Aerith drags him out of his element in a way the others just don't. While its #notmyship, its undenyable that Aerith means something special to Cloud.

 

[null]

I cannot believe this debate is actually taking off again. Personally I feel like both Tifa and Aerith fans are reading way too much into certain interactions to find romantic subtext, but I guess that's just how shipping be.

Any examples? To me it seems like Tifa's forwardness was turned up like crazy, at least for this stage of the game.

 

[Graymouse]

What did you guys think about Tifa's growth in this game? I thought SE hit it out the park. I felt that a lot of barriers were taken down in her character development. Especially, towards Cloud. Yes, she was still very reserved but I felt that she came around throughout the game and especially towards the end.

I would like to point out this part in the game "alone at last" discovery. When Tifa asked Cloud out on a date on the town, Tifa approached Cloud and Cloud responded with a surprised, "really" afterwards she took a few steps back and crossed her arms doubting herself. Asking Cloud why not? Until Cloud responded with "do you have fancy cloths?" at that point she regained her courage.

These little details that a lot of people seem to miss is what I love about this game.

 

[Graymouse]

I forgot to add, since I can't edit my posts, She even let Cloud pick her dress. I mean come on what women would let a nut like cloud pick out her cloths!

Apparently I can! LOL!

 

[BlankBeat]

We all seem to agree that everyone brings the real Cloud to the surface in different ways at different times.

I think the "high-five" example is the most clear-cut, obvious example.

I think rescuing Aerith from Shinra HQ is the most compelling, important example -- it is Cloud's idea and he is Aerith's bodyguard.

Both the high-five's and Shinra HQ suggest to me Aerith is Cloud's obvious preference.

But obviously that is opinion.

So is the debate about who did it first?

Because that would mean it's random luck who is able to do it first since everyone can do it.

To me, the debate is about which are the most clear-cut, significant examples.

The scene where Cloud and Aerith high-five in the battle arena gave me chills given Cloud's earlier reluctance.

Then, when Cloud has to remind everyone that rescuing Aerith is the #1 priority, it cemented to me that Cloud had significantly changed from the very beginning of the game.

CxA seem to dominate once Cloud meets Aerith, which means the others only have a chance when Aerith is out of the picture.

For me, the Shinra jail cell scene in the OG always confirmed Cloud's preference for Aerith over Tifa.

 

[Odysseus]

Any examples? To me it seems like Tifa's forwardness was turned up like crazy, at least for this stage of the game.

The high-five thing above, people arguing about his reaction to Tifa's reaction to Jessie dying, Cloud leaping out of a train with Tifa in such a way as to avoid her getting hurt, Cloud wanting to save Aerith from shinra. Its like every action these characters take towards each other has to be because they want to bone, like they can't just have other feeling or priorities at the time. This probably isn't the discussion for this thread though, and I am very bad at arguing my points anyway.

 

[Cat on Mars]

It's 2020, high fives equal romantic intent now.

 

[LNK]

What did you guys think about Tifa's growth in this game? I thought SE hit it out the park. I felt that a lot of barriers were taken down in her character development. Especially, towards Cloud. Yes, she was still very reserved but I felt that she came around throughout the game and especially towards the end.

I would like to point out this part in the game "alone at last" discovery. When Tifa asked Cloud out on a date on the town, Tifa approached Cloud and Cloud responded with a surprised, "really" afterwards she took a few steps back and crossed her arms doubting herself. Asking Cloud why not? Until Cloud responded with "do you have fancy cloths?" at that point she regained her courage.

These little details that a lot of people seem to miss is what I love about this game.

Yeah, her and Barret were my favorite characters in the remake. Between the VA, the progression of their characters, and the emotional scenes, they were really great. They're definitely up there with Bayek and Nathan Drake as my favorite videogame characters.

I loved that little scene of her asking Cloud out. I think it'd be cool if they actually had one in the final game

 

[Graymouse]

We all seem to agree that everyone brings the real Cloud to the surface in different ways at different times.

I think the "high-five" example is the most clear-cut, obvious example.

I think rescuing Aerith from Shinra HQ is the most compelling, important example -- it is Cloud's idea and he is Aerith's bodyguard.

Both the high-five's and Shinra HQ suggest to me Aerith is Cloud's obvious preference.

But obviously that is opinion.

So is the debate about who did it first?

Because that would mean it's random luck who is able to do it first since everyone can do it.

To me, the debate is about which are the most clear-cut, significant examples.

The scene where Cloud and Aerith high-five in the battle arena gave me chills given Cloud's earlier reluctance.

Then, when Cloud has to remind everyone that rescuing Aerith is the #1 priority, it cemented to me that Cloud had significantly changed from the very beginning of the game.

CxA seem to dominate once Cloud meets Aerith, which means the others only have a chance when Aerith is out of the picture.

For me, the Shinra jail cell scene in the OG always confirmed Cloud's preference for Aerith over Tifa.

I see your point of view, but what I don't see is why you cannot except others points of view that is different than your own. Which are just as valid as yours.

You at this point are bringing up the same points over and over again and not even acknowledging the other sides point of view. It as if you are just throwing darts at the wall hoping one would stick.

 

[Graymouse]

Yeah, her and Barret were my favorite characters in the remake. Between the VA, the progression of their characters, and the emotional scenes, they were really great. They're definitely up there with Bayek and Nathan Drake as my favorite videogame characters.

I loved that little scene of her asking Cloud out. I think it'd be cool if they actually had one in the final game

I agree 100%. Barret for me wins father of the year! The whole Marlene thing was really done well. I truly felt her character had the most development. Although in the OG, she wasn't much more in my opinion a cutout NPC.