SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[billy22]

Uh yeah? I was one of them.

 

[Ⓐaron]

…Do you really not think this warning:

Can I remind everyone that the rules for posting in this section are far stricter than elsewhere and - while discourse has remained civil - shitposting isn't taken so lightly in here. Tread carefully.

was directed at everyone? Because he literally says “everyone” in the quoted passage.

…I’m also really not sure this is the place or time for arguing over the rules. My previous post was probably right up to the line of what was acceptable as it was, but Lex ninja-posted with me, so I’ll probably get a pass on that one. But really, this has nothing to do with the LTD. Of course I’m contributing to the problem by even continuing it, I s’pose.

 

[LNK]

@Lex also warned everyone

 

[BlankBeat]

Uhhh... Lex admitted to warning me because of my previous ban?

 

[looneymoon]

I think there have been voices here in the past that have given this forum a reputation of "belittling" a Cloud/Aerith perspective. In all fairness though, it was more to do with knee-jerk frustration from militant C/A shippers making up crazy shit like interviews at WcDonald's and stuff.

BlankBeat, try not to take it personally I don't think anyone here cares about shipping all that much as long as it's chill

 

[LNK]

Uhhh... Lex admitted to warning me because of my previous ban?

That doesn't mean that Lex didn't warn everyone else in that same post, though. Which he did

 

[Lex]

Everyone get back on topic or get out of the thread please, we are thoroughly derailed. Happy debating

 

[BlankBeat]

That doesn't mean that Lex didn't warn everyone else in that same post, though. Which he did

A ruse.

I’m the only one specifically quoted in the post.

 

[billy22]

So what is the strongest Clerith argument from the Remake, in your opinion? Pick only one or two please. Not a massive wall of...whatever. And do you think Aerith survives this time?

I'm not asking this again.

 

[Ⓐaron]

…hopefully this is at least meta-on topic, seeing as it relates to the topic of the debate itself? if it isn’t, I can delete it But it seems pretty telling that so much of the discussion in this topic is, well, discussion about the discussion.

I think there have been voices here in the past that have given this forum a reputation of "belittling" a Cloud/Aerith perspective. I think in all fairness though, it was more to do with knee-jerk frustration from militant C/A shippers making up crazy shit like interviews at WcDonald's and stuff.

Can’t speak for anyone else, but back when I was really active in this topic rather than just playing the part of Statler and Waldorf as I currently do whenever I pop in, I’m sure I was part of the reason for this forum’s reputation, and yes, this was out of frustration from people just making things up.

BlankBeat, try not to take it personally I don't think anyone here cares about shipping all that much as long as it's chill

Right. There’s plenty of clubs devoted to shipping and no one belittles anyone who posts in them, as far as I’m aware (and if they do, in my experience that’s always been shut down pretty quickly – in fact, it’s explicitly against the rules of that subforum).

I don’t mind shipping; I’ve done my fair share of it in the past, though I don’t really have the energy to get really serious about it these days. I just have an issue with… militant shipping, I guess, that disregards the actual text? If people want to write their own fanon of how they wish the story had gone, I can get behind that. But I have an issue with misrepresentation of canonical sources. And this section has certainly seen a lot of that… which, again, is probably part of the reason for its negative reputation.

But as far as this thread goes – concerning the remake – a lot of that is still up in the air, because we don’t know what SE will change in future episodes. So it’s certainly much more open to interpretation than the original game is… until the remake’s story is concluded, at which point a lot of those interpretations will have been voided.

 

[LNK]

I am curious how SE will continue to build both relationships. As long as Aerith still dies, I'm sure that will be amplified. Tifa's will probably still be a slow build up (which I like more anyway)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Of course I’m contributing to the problem by even continuing it, I s’pose.

On a related note, can you get rid of that giant Cookie Monster picture now, plz?

 

[Ⓐaron]

On a related note, can you get rid of that giant Cookie Monster picture now, plz?

Oh, sorry, didn’t realise it was a problem since it’s one of the smilies here it’s gone… though for future reference, would it have been OK in spoiler tags?

 

[BlankBeat]

So what is the strongest Clerith argument from the Remake, in your opinion? Pick only one or two please. Not a massive wall of...whatever. And do you think Aerith survives this time?

I'm not asking this again.

Aerith bringing the REAL Cloud to the surface (ie: slowly giving her high-five’s), peaking when he vows to rescue her from Shinra HQ, fulfilling his romantic agreement to be her Bodyguard.

And of course...

Cloud saying that he wants his OWN SAY on loving Aerith.

I couldn’t pick just one. As my original post clearly suggests ^.^

 

[LNK]

A ruse.

I’m the only one specifically quoted in the post.

You're also the only one who went at length to disregard Tifa, while boosting up Aerith onto this goddess like pedestal. Others did the same, in reverse, on a much much smaller scale.

I can't make you not feel like it was a ruse (which I'm sorry you feel that way), but he did warn everyone

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Oh, sorry, didn’t realise it was a problem since it’s one of the smilies here it’s gone… though for future reference, would it have been OK in spoiler tags?

Uh, yeah, I guess it would have. XD

As long as such things don't constitute the whole of a post.

Sorry. I'm still trying to catch up on where all this discussion is, and there was just Cookie Cthulhu in there breaking the page.

Also, while we're doing confessions, I'm also deserving of part of the blame for the past negative reputation of this thread.

 

[Theozilla]

Uh, yeah, I guess it would have. XD

As long as such things don't constitute the whole of a post.

Sorry. I'm still trying to catch up on where all this discussion is, and there was just Cookie Cthulhu in there breaking the page.

Also, while we're doing confessions, I'm also deserving of part of the blame for the past negative reputation of this thread.

Your 2013 article is still really well done and I think holds up extremely well to this day. It's more impressive than some college papers than some college papers I've read.

 

[BlankBeat]

You're also the only one who went at length to disregard Tifa, while boosting up Aerith onto this goddess like pedestal. Others did the same, in reverse, on a much much smaller scale.

I can't make you not feel like it was a ruse (which I'm sorry you feel that way), but he did warn everyone

What I said about Tifa is minimal compared to what has been said on this forum in the past.

I won’t feel guilty for what I said about Tifa’s scenes being overshadowed by Jessie & forgotten by the time Aerith gets into the picture. That is my opinion.

Aerith drives the main narrative forward with her Cetra heritage. Tifa is given forgettable filler scenes in the first part of the game that most people forget by the end.

Furthermore, people are trying to say Nomura’s statements about Aerith being the original heroine are somehow not true because of an ambiguous relationship chart.

THAT is shitposting on Aerith. But no one batted an eye about that until I pointed it out.

Point is — the LTD automatically puts Aerith & Tifa in a rivalry.

The LTD is a contact sport.

I just think you may be in a pro-Tifa/pro-Cloti bubble & my bursting it is a shock to the system?

 

[Cat on Mars]

Your 2013 article is still really well done and I think holds up extremely well to this day. It's more impressive than some college papers than some college papers I've read.

Agree! It surprised me how well researched and structured the whole text was.
In fact, @The Twilight Mexican , that article was one of the first things that brought me to TLS forums back in the day. Thank you.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Everyone probably knows but I'm pro Aerith but not anti Tifa, just the heart wants what the heart wants you know?, and Aerith has always meant so very much to me.

I'd been planning on digging in a bit more here but my PC keyboard broke, might go more indepth on things once I get a new one though.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What I said about Tifa is minimal compared to what has been said on this forum in the past.

Yes, dude, we're all aware that many people have fostered negativity while discussing this in the past, myself included. That's all the more reason to leave the toxic behavior there in the past.

So, no more stuff like this, please:

I just think you may be in a pro-Tifa/pro-Cloti bubble & my bursting it is a shock to the system?

It's an extremely easy choice for all of us to make to be kind.

 

[billy22]

Aerith bringing the REAL Cloud to the surface (ie: slowly giving her high-five’s)

Why is this romantic but the scene where Cloud holds up a drink to Tifa's face and says 'Beautiful' isn't? Better yet, how is it even romantic by comparison?

peaking when he vows to rescue her from Shinra HQ

With Tifa and Barret

fulfilling his romantic agreement to be her Bodyguard.

They definitely did a better job with her Church bit than the original game did. The snarky banter between the two felt more realistic and I loved it.

But the act of being a bodyguard itself is romantic? Nah.

And of course...

Cloud saying that he wants his own say on loving Aerith.

I agree that the implication from that scene is supposed to lead to the inclination that Cloud is beginning to fall for her, yes.

However:
a) This is an optional scene along with both Tifa's and Barret's. We have already discussed the canonicity, and I think most here feel they probably all happened in the same night. This mitigates Aerith's to a degree since it is competing with Tifa's, which at a minimum has romantic undertones itself.

b) Why should I put more stock into a vague feeling from Cloud- a man currently hallucinating, suffering through a severe identity crisis, was in a coma for 5 years, has his history mixed up or an outright lie, etc- instead of Aerith's "Even if you think you have, it isn't real" line. A line spoken from a woman who can commune with the planet, the dead, and is more knowledgeable in general than the entire party. And now apparently, has some knowledge of future events.

c) Loving one person does not preclude you from loving another. He loves both, but doesn't know it yet. The end!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

a) This is an optional scene along with both Tifa's and Barret's. We have already discussed the canonicity, and I think most here feel they probably all happened in the same night. This mitigates Aerith's to a degree since it is competing with Tifa's ...

Is it? Like you said under "c," he loves both. It's not a competition.

 

[looneymoon]

The LTD is a contact sport.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Uh, yeah, I guess it would have. XD

As long as such things don't constitute the whole of a post.

Right, spoiler tags it is! I feel it illustrates my point quite nicely, but I didn’t consider that it’d probably break the thread on smaller displays.

Yes, dude, we're all aware that many people have fostered negativity while discussing this in the past, myself included. That's all the more reason to leave the toxic behavior there in the past.

Right, not only are we all aware of this, but many of us are openly admitting that we were part of the problem. Which… seems like it deserves a bit of consideration, rather than just being used as a rationalisation for a continued negative atmosphere now.

Frankly, I was a complete dick in my 20s and even well into my early 30s, and my behaviour in LTD threads is only a small portion of the reason why – in fact, it probably wouldn’t even rate on the list of the top 100 bad things I did. But still, I certainly actively contributed to what must have been a toxic atmosphere at the time for anyone who didn’t share the dominant viewpoint in the LTD here at the time.

But after a point, you have to simply let the past be the past. I have plenty of past grievances with things here too, but those things mostly happened 5+ years ago. I was a different person then than I am now, and so was everyone else here. I’m not saying we have to forget or forgive everything people did in the past, because I certainly don’t. But we don’t have to hold grudges over it, either. I can have dissatisfaction with how I was treated in the past, but at the same time, I also fully recognise that things I did in the past probably resulted in others having dissatisfaction with my conduct. And a lot of their dissatisfaction was probably justified, and I don’t feel particularly personally aggrieved about that because, again, it was 5+ years ago.

So ultimately, it boils down to this:

It's an extremely easy choice for all of us to make to be kind.

…I mean, maybe it isn’t actually an easy choice in some circumstances. But it’s usually still the best choice.

Of course, I say this, and I admit that I still don’t always live up to it myself. But there’s enough misery in the world, and on the whole, I usually do my best not to add to it. I think that’s a good attitude for everyone to hold.