SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yumelinh]

Aerith bringing the REAL Cloud to the surface (ie: slowly giving her high-five’s)

... didn't the ultimania just stated that the one person Cloud's real self tends to resurface is Tifa?

(edit: the high five scene was cute thooo)

 

[LNK]

What I said about Tifa is minimal compared to what has been said on this forum in the past.

That may be true. But, as some have said, they are trying to change that. Some of them have even admitted to the wrongful contributions of that in the past.

I won’t feel guilty for what I said about Tifa’s scenes being overshadowed by Jessie & forgotten by the time Aerith gets into the picture. That is my opinion.

The same can be said about Jessie and Aerith's scenes being overshadowed by Tifa's. Even by the end of the game, Tifa still had better more meaningful scenes with Cloud (in my opinion)

Aerith drives the main narrative forward with her Cetra heritage. Tifa is given forgettable filler scenes in the first part of the game that most people forget by the end.

What I said, also went into this. Tifa's scenes were much more memorable to me. As much as I like Aerith as a character, I think Tifa's VA did a better job in delivering her lines. Especially in the emotional scenes.

Furthermore, people are trying to say Nomura’s statements about Aerith being the original heroine are somehow not true because of an ambiguous relationship chart.

People saying that's not true, are being ignorant. Its like Trump supporters saying Trump doesn't lie.

Point is — the LTD automatically puts Aerith & Tifa in a rivalry.

The LTD is a contact sport.

That's your perspective. From my perspective, the creators made the love triangle to give players the chance to choose who Cloud goes for. Nothing more, nothing less.

I just think you may be in a pro-Tifa/pro-Cloti bubble & my bursting it is a shock to the system?

You're not bursting any bubble. I already said that I can see both perspectives and neither is wrong. I fully support you being pro Aerith. I just don't support you making it seem like Aerith is the only choice to make, when clearly the creators didn't create the game that way.

 

[BlankBeat]

Why is this romantic but the scene where Cloud holds up a drink to Tifa's face and says 'Beautiful' isn't? Better yet, how is it even romantic by comparison?

With Tifa and Barret

They definitely did a better job with her Church bit than the original game did. The snarky banter between the two felt more realistic and I loved it.

But the act of being a bodyguard itself is romantic? Nah.

I agree that the implication from that scene is supposed to lead to the inclination that Cloud is beginning to fall for her, yes.

However:
a) This is an optional scene along with both Tifa's and Barret's. We have already discussed the canonicity, and I think most here feel they probably all happened in the same night. This mitigates Aerith's to a degree since it is competing with Tifa's, which at a minimum has romantic undertones itself.

b) Why should I put more stock into a vague feeling from Cloud- a man currently hallucinating, suffering through a severe identity crisis, was in a coma for 5 years, has his history mixed up or an outright lie, etc- instead of Aerith's "Even if you think you have, it isn't real" line. A line spoken from a woman who can commune with the planet, the dead, and is more knowledgeable in general than the entire party. And now apparently, has some knowledge of future events.

c) Loving one person does not preclude you from loving another. He loves both, but doesn't know it yet. The end!

My honest opinion is that Cloud has favor for both Aerith & Tifa. We know the hero "wavers" between two heroines.

However, Cloud & Aerith's moments suggest to me his preference is Aerith.

Once Aerith is in the picture, it is Aerith, Aerith, Aerith.

Only once Aerith dies, does Cloud (optionally) pursue Tifa. And even then, Tifa is stated to be jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith. Nothing in the compilation suggests CxT became an official couple. The DoC gaming manual says Tifa is still a "childhood friend," Barret returns to live with them, and CxT share zero moments of explicit romance. It is very ambiguous. Nothing has been officially declared.

To me, Cloud has been shown in numerous cameos seeking a reunion with Aerith, which is the underlying root of Tifa's continued jealousy.

In World of Final Fantasy, Terra says Aerith is the woman Cloud loves. In Final Fantasy Tactics, Cloud mentions finding the Promised Land & reunites with Tactics Aerith. The Dissidia ending is a flower field. In the AC/C credits, Cloud is riding his motorcycle through flower fields that represent Aerith.

You can nit-pick each of these examples, but the overall, big-picture symbolism is that Cloud has continued feelings for Aerith that Tifa is jealous of. Cloud continually seeks Aerith in cameos and even in the AC/C credits (the flower fields appear in both AC & ACC). To deny this is to deny common sense symbolism.

If Aerith lives, I don't believe Tifa has a chance. Tifa's jealousy suggests even she knows this to be true.

Oh, and the bodyguard agreement is romantic because Cloud agrees to a date as payment.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Is it? Like you said under "c," he loves both. It's not a competition.

I don't think it will be a "competition" this time. I think Cloud is interested in both Tifa and Aerith for different reasons, and it will be interesenting* to see how all these relationships play out later.

Now, my take:
I've felt that Aerith was playing matchmaker the whole time. The way she pushes Cloud to go after Tifa, how she advices Tifa to "follow her heart" (SAY CHEESE!) so Tifa goes straight to rescue Cloud... of course, she can't help but flirt with him, because it's fun and it suits her personality. But this Aerith seems to know too much and have someting in mind. She is a woman on a mission, and I don't believe her mission is "getting into Cloud's pants".

*interesting! MY KEYBOARD SUCKS GAH
ETA: why do I forget words mid-sentence.

 

[BlankBeat]

... didn't the ultimania just stated that the one person Cloud's real self tends to resurface is Tifa?

(edit: the hight five scene was cute thooo)

Aerith brings to the surface a REAL memory of Cloud's mother wanting him to have an "older" girlfriend. His Mother also tells Cloud to find someone who calls him a "silly goose." Aerith calls Cloud a "silly goose" in the Remake.

Please don't forget this quote, either:

​

“Gradually, Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior.​

​

It is the heroine, Aerith, who opens Cloud’s eyes, and helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past.”​

~Square Enix​

 

[Graymouse]

I am at a loss for words, after reading the last two pages, this thread has gone off the rails. I am obviously new here so I guess I don't have a Red XIII in this race.

I will add though, I think we can all agree especially within this very thread, that SE really did a fantastic job with fleshing out the characters in the remake. Although I am bias to Tifa.

 

[LNK]

Aerith brings to the surface a REAL memory of Cloud's mother wanting him to have an "older" girlfriend. His Mother also tells Cloud to find someone who calls him a "silly goose." Aerith calls Cloud a "silly goose" in the Remake.

Please don't forget this quote, either:

​

“Gradually, Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior.​

​

It is the heroine, Aerith, who opens Cloud’s eyes, and helps bring him closer to understanding the mystery that is his past.”​

~Square Enix​

In the remake, Jessie started melting that frosty exterior prior to Aerith though

 

[Ⓐaron]

I am at a loss for words, after reading the last two pages, this thread has gone off the rails.

As far as I can tell, it’s rarely ever stayed on the rails for very long in the first place For as long as I can recall, there’s been as much meta-discussion as there has been actual discussion.

…also, welcome

To my knowledge, none of those are canon to ff7 or the compilation though

…and even if they were, I don’t see how they would be relevant to this thread, which is specifically about the remake. There’s another thread where anything goes, and they’d be fine to bring up there.

 

[BlankBeat]

In the remake, Jessie started melting that frosty exterior prior to Aerith though

IMO -- nothing compares to Cloud rescuing Aerith from Shinra HQ.

 

[Graymouse]

Also, this is not an attack on Aeirth, or on those who like her with Cloud, so please don't think I am being brash about this but, as I was playing through the game I found that Aeirth was extremely annoying to me.

I do admit that there are some really great scenes with her and cloud especiallly the Wall Market part. One of my favorite chapters of the game, but for the most part, I just wanted to hurry through that part of the story when she was involved.

 

[Cat on Mars]

IMO -- nothing compares to Cloud rescuing Aerith from Shinra HQ.

Cloud doesn't go alone. Why are you repeatedly ignoring this fact?

But Tifa's jealousy is confirmed. The cameos simply lend further evidence as to why (ie: Aerith -- Tifa's "love rival").

And this matters because..? Cloud seems bothered by Johnny's interest in Tifa, jealous even... does it matter, too? Or nah?

 

[LNK]

If Aerith lives, I don't believe Tifa has a chance. Tifa's jealousy suggests even she knows this to be true

If Jessie lived, maybe Aerith and Tifa wouldn't have had a chance. Who knows? We can only go by what we've gotten in the remake

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

My honest opinion is that Cloud has favor for both Aerith & Tifa. We know the hero "wavers" between two heroines.

The way you wrote your intro post (I'm finally all caught up) doesn't suggest you feel that he's into Tifa at all, though. =/

Nothing in the compilation suggests CxT became an official couple.

We'll just agree to disagree on that.

But by the way, this thread isn't for including the Compilation or cameos. There are others more suited to that.

And even then, Tifa is stated to be jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith.

Hey now:

 

[null]

Also, this is not an attack on Aeirth, or on those who like her with Cloud, so please don't think I am being brash about this but, as I was playing through the game I found that Aeirth was extremely annoying to me.

I do admit that there are some really great scenes with her and cloud especiallly the Wall Market part. One of my favorite chapters of the game, but for the most part, I just wanted to hurry through that part of the story when she was involved.

If you don't mind my asking, how was she annoying to you? I'll admit she tends to be pushy, but I thought her personality upgrade was otherwise one of 7R's strongest points. Like, I actually found it believable that Cloud could fall for her in the space of a day.

 

[BlankBeat]

Cloud doesn't go alone. Why are you repeatedly ignoring this fact?


And this matters because..? Cloud seems bothered by Johnny's interest in Tifa, jealous even... does it matter, too? Or nah?

1. It is Cloud's idea to rescue Aerith.

2. Cloud has to remind Tifa & Barret that rescuing Aerith is the #1 priority.

3. Cloud is the one who is Aerith's bodyguard. Cloud rescuing Aerith from Shinra HQ has far more significance due to the fact that he is her Bodyguard.

4. Tifa says outside Shinra HQ that it looks like a "lost cause." Cloud is the one who finally turns into the leader we need and vows to keep going despite Tifa's apprehension.

5. The only 3 people stated to be members of the love triangle in the OG gaming manual are Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa. Everyone else is irrelevant.

Just like when people say "well, Cloud felt guilty over Zack's death, too!!" -- well, Zack isn't in the officially established love triangle. So Cloud's continued feelings for Zack aren't the same as his continued feelings for Aerith.

Aerith is in the love triangle with Cloud and Tifa. Both Johnny and Zack are not in the officially established love triangle. That's the difference.

 

[BlankBeat]

Also, this is not an attack on Aeirth, or on those who like her with Cloud, so please don't think I am being brash about this but, as I was playing through the game I found that Aeirth was extremely annoying to me.

I do admit that there are some really great scenes with her and cloud especiallly the Wall Market part. One of my favorite chapters of the game, but for the most part, I just wanted to hurry through that part of the story when she was involved.

I felt the same way about Tifa's chapters!! It was torture for me to play the first 7 chapters. Couldn't wait to fall to Aerith's Church. Funny how that all works out.

 

[Teioh]

Why is there compilation stuff and cameos being brought up in this thread? I was under the impression that this was the Remake LTD thread only? Isn't this thread over here the one for remake + compilation/cameo stuff? It's sitting there, all empty

 

[Graymouse]

If you don't mind my asking, how was she annoying to you? I'll admit she tends to be pushy, but I thought her personality upgrade was otherwise one of 7R's strongest points. Like, I actually found it believable that Cloud could fall for her in the space of a day.

I don't mind at all, I felt at times that she was way over the top. I guess it stems from me not liking that type of personality.

For the fact that Cloud and Aerith just met she is exerting herself into his life so quickly that Cloud doesn't know how to handle it. At this point in the story Cloud is a train wreck emotional and mentally. I think it is extremely overwhelming to Cloud.

Especially since Cloud is so used to a more reserved Tifa. Aerith is giving him way too much attention in my opinion.

Also, since we are to believe that Aerith has special powers, I think that Aerith should know when to stop, but she doesn't until later. I think that at one point Aerith realized that this Tifa girl is someone special to Cloud and afterward that realization that is when it felt that she was pushing Cloud towards TIfa.

 

[LNK]

Also, this is not an attack on Aeirth, or on those who like her with Cloud, so please don't think I am being brash about this but, as I was playing through the game I found that Aeirth was extremely annoying to me.

I do admit that there are some really great scenes with her and cloud especiallly the Wall Market part. One of my favorite chapters of the game, but for the most part, I just wanted to hurry through that part of the story when she was involved.

Ive also seen people say Aerith is toxic and bossy. Telling Cloud his payment to be her bodyguard is a date, is a good example

 

[Cat on Mars]

1. It is Cloud's idea to rescue Aerith.
2. Cloud has to remind Tifa & Barret that rescuing Aerith is the #1 priority.
3. Cloud is the one who is Aerith's bodyguard. Cloud rescuing Aerith from Shinra HQ has far more significance due to the fact that he is her Bodyguard.
4. Tifa says outside Shinra HQ that it looks like a "lost cause." Cloud is the one who finally turns into the leader we need and vows to keep going despite Tifa's apprehension.

That's a very literal and odd interpretation of the events. Are you autistic? This is a honest question.

5. The only 3 people stated to be members of the love triangle in the OG gaming manual are Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa. Everyone else is irrelevant.

Just like when people say "well, Cloud felt guilty over Zack's death, too!!" -- well, Zack isn't in the officially established love triangle. So Cloud's continued feelings for Zack aren't the same as his continued feelings for Aerith.

Aerith is in the love triangle with Cloud and Tifa. Both Johnny and Zack are not in the officially established love triangle. That's the difference.

Hmm, funny you should say that...

Regardless, in the Remake, Aerith states she must move FORWARD with her life in regards to Zack.

 

[Graymouse]

Ive also seen people say Aerith is toxic and bossy. Telling Cloud his payment to be her bodyguard is a date, is a good example

I agree. However, on the other side of that very same coin, Tifa can be construed bossy as well. Especially forcing Cloud into Avalanche, I know that she did that to keep an eye on him and to keep him close.

Why are the ladies in FF7 so manipulative to Cloud! Poor Cloud!

 

[billy22]

Is it? Like you said under "c," he loves both. It's not a competition.

Is it what? Mitigating the romance? Yes. That applies to Tifa's as well. Two scenes with romantic undertones from two different girls will give a different impression on the viewer/reader of the romance situation than if there was only one. If Tifa or Aerith only had a scene while the other didn't, it would give more weight to that girl.

Also I don't know what you mean by 'it's not a competition?'

My honest opinion is that Cloud has favor for both Aerith & Tifa. We know the hero "wavers" between two heroines.

I spoke of my opinion on this a while back in the topic. I do not agree with that in literal terms. But regardless I doubt you will agree so I will leave it at that.

I recommend reading the entire topic though, from start to finish, if you haven't already.

However, Cloud & Aerith's moments suggest to me his preference is Aerith.

Once Aerith is in the picture, it is Aerith, Aerith, Aerith.

I do not agree. Based on how the game progresses.

First thing he does when they're on the rooftops is tell her that after the bodyguard work of taking her home is done, he wants to go back to Sector 7.

He has a random flashback about Tifa while roaming around with Aerith in the church area.

And then when Elmyra tells him to leave and never speak to Aerith again, he says 'kay' then walks out the door. With the intention of never seeing her again.

At a minimum, objectively he cannot be 'about Aerith' until post plate fall...when she is kidnapped and needs rescued.

But these are all from the OG...only exemplified with additional dialogue and the Tifa flashback.

If Aerith lives, I don't believe Tifa has a chance. Tifa's jealousy suggests even she knows this to be true.

Okay well, maybe if they let her live they will let you be with her this time. Jealously doesn't mean the girl who is jealous 'doesn't have a chance' though. This is a common trope, and reflective of real life. Women get jealous easily, whether rightfully or not.

Just to be clear, if she lives do you think they will force Cloud (the player) to pick her, or do you think it will be an optional thing? Like, instead of sexy time with Tifa under the highwind, you can choose to have sexy time with Aerith under the highwind?

Oh, and the bodyguard agreement is romantic because Cloud agrees to a date as payment.

I do not recall him accepting this, technically. He wants her to stop talking about it at Elmyra's, anyway.

But while we're at it, Tifa and Cloud talk about going on a date in CH3. Something that was not in the OG, I might add.

 

[LNK]

I agree. However, on the other side of that very same coin, Tifa can be construed bossy as well. Especially forcing Cloud into Avalanche, I know that she did that to keep an eye on him and to keep him close.

Why are the ladies in FF7 so manipulative to Cloud! Poor Cloud!

Lol I know huh. He should just stand up for himself and say no!

 

[LNK]

I do not recall him accepting this, technically. He wants her to stop talking about it at Elmyra's, anyway.

I agree. He also agreed to a date with Jessie.

 

[Graymouse]

Lol I know huh. He should just stand up for himself and say no!

Kinda reminds me of Charlie Brown to be honest. So wishy washy. If he told either one Aerith or Tifa no, we wouldn't be having this conversation 23 years later.

Tifa would have her man!