LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
That's a really good point!
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
That's a really good point!
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
The train graveyard scene was brilliant also.
I have to hand it to Aerith, because she knew exactly what she was doing when she grabbed poor clouds arm and said, that "we have a bodyguard to protect us, Mine!" The daggers that came out of Tifa's eyes was hilarious!
The thing is, I feel that Tifa was more mad at the fact the Aerith brought Tifa out of her shell, even for a moment and it caught Tifa off guard. Also I think Tifa was scared crapless about the ghosts as well.
What a great scene!
So lucky Cloud, Two beautiful women holding onto his arms........
I have to hand it to Aerith, because she knew exactly what she was doing when she grabbed poor clouds arm and said, that "we have a bodyguard to protect us, Mine!" The daggers that came out of Tifa's eyes was hilarious!
The thing is, I feel that Tifa was more mad at the fact the Aerith brought Tifa out of her shell, even for a moment and it caught Tifa off guard. Also I think Tifa was scared crapless about the ghosts as well.
What a great scene!
So lucky Cloud, Two beautiful women holding onto his arms........
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
One of the ways in which the Remake really shines is the agency and independence it gives to both women. Cloud is important to Tifa, but he's not the only thing in her life. She's dedicated to Avalanche; immediately after losing Cloud in the Airbuster battle, she throws herself into the Don Corneo mission. It's reminiscent of her line in the OG when she says something like, "Right now I feel I have to push myself to the limit." There's even a scene in which she is shown prioritising her Avalanche commitments over Cloud (and he doesn't really like it).
Aerith knows more this time around. She's aware that she, too, has a mission, and that it's much more important than any romantic interests she might pick up along the way. She may wish it wasn't that way, but it is.
As the player our focus is on Cloud, but we shouldn't forget that both these women have their own stories, of which Cloud is just a part. They don't live and breathe and move only for him. He rescues both of them from dangerous situations, and these rescues form a large part of the plot and the fun. However, they are also both shown rescuing him*. Sometimes they work together to rescue him. Tifa and Aerith have a rapport of their own, independent of Cloud. Aerith is good at breaking down everyone's defences; it's what she does. So the fact that she gets through to Cloud isn't per se proof that he is special to her (although of course we know he is, or he comes to be). The game designers repeatedly and deliberately show us Tifa and Aerith collaborating together, supporting each other, and bonding.
After all the work they put into developing both these women into fully fledged protagonists in their own right, and friends to boot, it would be pretty crass to pit them against each other over a man. Each woman in her own way is out to save the world. They don't have time for a love triangle!
* Edited to add: each woman is both vital in the other's rescue. Cloud couldn't have rescued Tifa without Aerith's help. He couldn't have rescued Aerith without Tifa's help.
Aerith knows more this time around. She's aware that she, too, has a mission, and that it's much more important than any romantic interests she might pick up along the way. She may wish it wasn't that way, but it is.
As the player our focus is on Cloud, but we shouldn't forget that both these women have their own stories, of which Cloud is just a part. They don't live and breathe and move only for him. He rescues both of them from dangerous situations, and these rescues form a large part of the plot and the fun. However, they are also both shown rescuing him*. Sometimes they work together to rescue him. Tifa and Aerith have a rapport of their own, independent of Cloud. Aerith is good at breaking down everyone's defences; it's what she does. So the fact that she gets through to Cloud isn't per se proof that he is special to her (although of course we know he is, or he comes to be). The game designers repeatedly and deliberately show us Tifa and Aerith collaborating together, supporting each other, and bonding.
After all the work they put into developing both these women into fully fledged protagonists in their own right, and friends to boot, it would be pretty crass to pit them against each other over a man. Each woman in her own way is out to save the world. They don't have time for a love triangle!
* Edited to add: each woman is both vital in the other's rescue. Cloud couldn't have rescued Tifa without Aerith's help. He couldn't have rescued Aerith without Tifa's help.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
He did dance for Aerith. He tried to leave the dance floor twice but stopped and turned back when he saw Aerith excited in the audience and he went back to dance. I think it is in Chapter 4 and Chapter 7 including to Tifa and Barrett that Cloud says he doesn't dance and he still tries to get out of it later but then he sees Aerith in the audience and turns back.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Very valid point. However, please don't forget the reason why he was there in the first place. With Aerith's encouragement I might add. They were there to rescue Tifa from The Don!
Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
- AKA
- Mr. Koiwai
This story is a beautiful and uplifting story of an outcast boy who only originally wanted to be a hero to a single girl, then after experiencing great hardships that almost robbed him of himself, overcame all adversities, regained his own self that he lost, became a better person for it and then went to battle an obstacle larger than himself and ultimately became not only a hero to one person but a hero to all.
It's a great disservice to this character to frame almost every action of his as him wanting to bone a girl. That doesn't sit well with me. This guy is NOT too concerned of a single-minded romantic pursuit. He's much deeper than that.
Edit: Also, everything Lic said.
It's a great disservice to this character to frame almost every action of his as him wanting to bone a girl. That doesn't sit well with me. This guy is NOT too concerned of a single-minded romantic pursuit. He's much deeper than that.
Edit: Also, everything Lic said.
Scot-88
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Scot
This is you choosing to see it that way. Cloud's mission at that moment was the rescue of Tifa. He didn't dance because he saw Aerith happy. He danced because it was the only road open to him at that moment to save his friend. If Tifa was not at risk, do we really believe that a man who could barely pull off a high five would break out into a dance routine ? Not a chance. It isn't in his character. And to bend his motivations to suit a ship is a nope from me.
Scot-88
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Scot
Ninja'd me lol
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I am not the one here detracting from any girl. Wall Market was about both of them.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Didn't you say in your opening post that the dance amongst other things was all about Tifa?
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
The whole chapter of Wall Market is my favorite part of the game. They really did that part so well! I think perhaps the fans were being very cynical about Wall Market when the FF7R was announced in 2015.
I for one enjoyed it! Even the remix of Tifa's theme when Tifa and Aerith teamed up to beat up The Dons goons! "smash em rip em"
"Cloud is that you?" "The makeup, the dress." "Nailed it! Thank You! Moving On!"
Maidenofwar
They/Them
No. All I said was that he did dance for Aerith not that it was all about her.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Also, what is funny Wall Market is the perfect example of the game not taking itself too seriously at times. If Wall Market is any indication can you guys imagine what the Gold Saucer is going to be like?
I guess I am getting off topic, but it is so easy when it comes to this game!
I guess back on topic! Long Live Tifa and Cloud! .....seriously!
I guess I am getting off topic, but it is so easy when it comes to this game!
I guess back on topic! Long Live Tifa and Cloud! .....seriously!
Scot-88
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Scot
So let me try to get your argument right so I'm not misunderstanding you. You believe the Wall Market mission is about saving tifa AND trying to amuse Aerith? That Clouds main reason to break character and do a dance routine was to amuse Aerith and NOT to save his friend in dire jeopardy?
Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
- AKA
- Mr. Koiwai
This is the way I see it. The mission was to save Tifa, thus every action Cloud and Aerith undertook in the Wall Market sequence was primarily motivated by a desire the save her, whether they be fighting at the arena or dancing with Rhodea.
Aerith was there to act as a support in case Cloud gets cold feet from some of the actions taken, but she is not the motivation. She is there to remind Cloud of the primacy of the mission, which continues to be the main motivation.
Edit: Dang, shipping is hard.
Aerith was there to act as a support in case Cloud gets cold feet from some of the actions taken, but she is not the motivation. She is there to remind Cloud of the primacy of the mission, which continues to be the main motivation.
Edit: Dang, shipping is hard.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
He was going to leave the dance floor (twice) was stopped by others (twice) saw Aerith, turned around and went back to dance. Simple as. No bending of anything. Simple description of what happened on screen. Not wanting to upset Aerith doesn't detract from the overall mission.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
It could be interpreted as both honestly. Aerith sure did seem like she enjoyed Cloud's dance. I for one think that Aerith really enjoyed herself at Cloud's expense.
I think everyone can agree that Cloud did the whole "dancing queen" thing to obviously gain Andrea's favor in trying to save Tifa.
Scot-88
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Scot
The point of Wall Market is the same as Shinra hq. The infiltration of the castle to save the princess. Are we to argue that the Shinra hq mission was about Aerith AND Tifa because of Tifa's presence in the party? No. The mission was Aerith. It was ALL about her. Every action taking was to save her. And Wall market is the exact same.
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Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
This I cannot agree to because, If you were Cloud and you had to do this dance routine, that you practiced before hand, to get Andera's approval to save Tifa. You would more than likely get on stage and then realize what the hell am I doing, and try to leave the stage.
The way you make it out to be is that when he sees Aerith sitting there that is the only reason why he turned around and got back on the stage is farce. That is not why he went back on the stage. Now that I think about it he was forced back on the stage by the honey bee girls.....several times.
Scot-88
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Scot
Ninja'd again
Scot-88
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Scot
Problem is. Not everyone agrees ? and its confusing the life out of me
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Which I think is SE intent. They want people to enjoy whichever perspective they look at it from.
