SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[loozzer]

None of us have seen the ending to Rebirth yet.

Spoiler

We don’t know if his denial is a constant thing. He may be flitting back and forth similar to his headaches. I don’t see how we could have Icicle Inn, Great Glacier and the first visit to the Northern Crater and have any coherence at all if he’s literally talking to “Aerith” and no one else sees her. My guess is there is some denial some of the time.

Yes I was gonna say having this scene at this time in the game makes it seem like he already knows

Spoiler

she’s dead. Or at least suspects it. And makes it seem like her death will be dealt with early in part 3 rather than having her force ghost with us for half the game.

 

[Ultimate Zack]

On Japan's 5ch, I see a lot of sympathy for Zack and opinions that Aerith is a light-hearted woman. Of course, if they knew about her fluctuating emotions and her ending, they would know that she is not that kind of woman, but they don't care about that. As more people complete the game, their opinions will be spread on 5ch summary sites and other sites. And as usual Cloud/Aerith fans will go wild and all those who love Aerith and love Zack like me will be sidelined and persecuted lol

 

[GamerSkull]

Zerith, as I recall, was at one point incredibly popular in Japan. Not sure if that’s the case anymore.

 

[Ultimate Zack]

Zerith, as I recall, was at one point incredibly popular in Japan. Not sure if that’s the case anymore.

It is popular because of CC and AC, until then it was nothing. Recently, many streamers have been playing CCR and have been moved by the ending, and many are hoping for a reunion between them.

 

[Hix]

On Japan's 5ch, I see a lot of sympathy for Zack and opinions that Aerith is a light-hearted woman. Of course, if they knew about her fluctuating emotions and her ending, they would know that she is not that kind of woman, but they don't care about that. As more people complete the game, their opinions will be spread on 5ch summary sites and other sites. And as usual Cloud/Aerith fans will go wild and all those who love Aerith and love Zack like me will be sidelined and persecuted lol

Zerith will be vindicated in the end, I've never been more sure of this. The Devs have been clear we're heading to Advent Children Complete (wherein, Zack and Aerith are already together) so the connection will be made, but also, the leaks of the game show conclusively that Aerith still can't let go of her feelings for Zack.

He was brought back deliberately and it's not to just be overlooked for someone who, in any case, ends up with Tifa.

Part 3 will have the answers but for now, just enjoy the ride. The fact our boy is back, and Aerith still clearly loves him, is enough for me.

 

[Yumelinh]

Yeah, I'm not bothered per se with this scene, and it's visually a very beautiful one. But things like this, I guess, just bring to the surface my worst fear i.e SE choosing to be ambiguous and cater to all sides in the end. And this is something I can't stand anymore Even tho I ship Cloud and Tifa, I'd take Cloud and Aerith canon any day over the 'it's up to interpretation' or 'both ships are canon' route. At least we would have a definite answer once and for all.

That said, it does seem SE is genuinely intending on not to leave room for interpretations in the fandom based on Rebirth leaks. But still... scenes like this do make things harder in the end. It would be so much easier if they were just not trying to cater to every ship all the time. It's not good for any of the pairings involved in it.

 

[Ultimate Zack]

Zerith will be vindicated in the end, I've never been more sure of this. The Devs have been clear we're heading to Advent Children Complete (wherein, Zack and Aerith are already together) so the connection will be made, but also, the leaks of the game show conclusively that Aerith still can't let go of her feelings for Zack.

He was brought back deliberately and it's not to just be overlooked for someone who, in any case, ends up with Tifa.

Part 3 will have the answers but for now, just enjoy the ride. The fact our boy is back, and Aerith still clearly loves him, is enough for me.

I hope so too, and I'm hopeful that more powerful scenes will be added. However, it's a little sad to see my favorite characters being attacked. I'm already looking forward to the third movie, but now I'm trying to enjoy the second movie to the fullest.

 

[Hix]

Yeah, I'm not bothered per se with this scene, and it's visually a very beautiful one. But things like this, I guess, just bring to the surface my worst fear i.e SE choosing to be ambiguous and cater to all sides in the end. And this is something I can't stand anymore Even tho I ship Cloud and Tifa, I'd take Cloud and Aerith canon any day over the 'it's up to interpretation' or 'both ships are canon' route. At least we would have a definite answer once and for all.

That said, it does seem SE is genuinely intending on not to leave room for interpretations in the fandom based on Rebirth leaks. But still... scenes like this do make things harder in the end. It would be so much easier if they were just not trying to cater to every ship all the time. It's not good for any of the pairings involved in it.

I wouldn't read too far into it, it's trailer bait. Was less than a month ago SE put out a trailer and everyone thought it was going to be a Clerith game, but the leakers came out and confirmed very, very much the opposite.

Every leak we have is pretty implicit about how Rebirth leans heavily Cloti and, lest you forget, this is all before Aerith dies and Tifa gets her real time to shine (the Lifestream and thereafter)

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, it’s pretty hardcore bait tbh. It’s actually quite ballsy that they did that. I’m wondering if Tifa simply got less because it was meant to be a huge surprise as to the degree her relationship would be explored.

Although that doesn’t line up with some interviews that seem to hint at a lot of Tifa stuff.

 

[Rfcloud88]

I wouldn't read too far into it, it's trailer bait. Was less than a month ago SE put out a trailer and everyone thought it was going to be a Clerith game, but the leakers came out and confirmed very, very much the opposite.

Every leak we have is pretty implicit about how Rebirth leans heavily Cloti and, lest you forget, this is all before Aerith dies and Tifa gets her real time to shine (the Lifestream and thereafter)

Forealz I feel they were jacking off the Aerith fans lol. I get it though it’s for her to shine before something tragic happens

 

[Ryushikaze]

Now that I think about it some more, that line seems more like it should've come from Zack.
But that's just what my exposed-to-too-many-shounen-anime brain (against my will, I swear) landed on.

Maaya and Kenichi flipped a coin to see who got the line. Maaya won.
I am just shitposting, but it's probably because Zack is "alive" as far as the narrative is concerned and having him show up with that line would complicate things.

Gets me wondering what was the whole point of bringing Zack into the game?

Metaplot reasons that won't be fully explored until pt 3

Zerith, as I recall, was at one point incredibly popular in Japan. Not sure if that’s the case anymore.

It is. It doesn't hurt that their VOs are a married couple and very charismatic (And IIRC met and started dating right around crisis core)

It is popular because of CC and AC, until then it was nothing. Recently, many streamers have been playing CCR and have been moved by the ending, and many are hoping for a reunion between them.

Keeping on the real world talk for a second, it's kinda funny how rarely their characters wind up dating even when the two are in projects together.

 

[GamerSkull]

Maaya and Kenichi flipped a coin to see who got the line. Maaya won.
I am just shitposting, but it's probably because Zack is "alive" as far as the narrative is concerned and having him show up with that line would complicate things.


Metaplot reasons that won't be fully explored until pt 3


It is. It doesn't hurt that their VOs are a married couple and very charismatic (And IIRC met and started dating right around crisis core)


Keeping on the real world talk for a second, it's kinda funny how rarely their characters wind up dating even when the two are in projects together.

That’s right. I forgot they were married, I vaguely recall reading that somewhere.

 

[Empyrea]

Maaya and Kenichi flipped a coin to see who got the line. Maaya won.
I am just shitposting, but it's probably because Zack is "alive" as far as the narrative is concerned and having him show up with that line would complicate things.

All in good fun! I was doing the same
To wit, my sister is a Zack/Cloud shipper, and if she saw Zack saying that line to Cloud, that would definitely make her happy xD

 

[Yumelinh]

I wouldn't read too far into it, it's trailer bait. Was less than a month ago SE put out a trailer and everyone thought it was going to be a Clerith game, but the leakers came out and confirmed very, very much the opposite.

Every leak we have is pretty implicit about how Rebirth leans heavily Cloti and, lest you forget, this is all before Aerith dies and Tifa gets her real time to shine (the Lifestream and thereafter)

Yeah, I do agree with you and with what you said earlier as well, but, as I mentioned, it's just a pet peeve of mine when SE does this. I guess it's because of my long history with the LTD debate (8+ years on this forum alone), and knowing very well where this scene will lead in terms of discussions and how it only damages the characters involved in the end. This is the only tiresome part of it (as I mentioned before I find the absurdity of this debate kind of fun most of the time ).

LTDs need to be fueled to, well, be an LTD, even though most of the time we have a clear winner (and it seems to be the case here as well). It's just a little more annoying in the context of this fandom specifically because of the well-known 'Cloud only ended up with Tifa because Aerith died' take some people have.

 

[Ruri]

ngl, Cloud and Aerith can make some for beautiful shots. I do love aspects of them. If only I felt a shadow of a slither of chemistry that he had with Tifa. I will wait for the game to start speaking now. All this trailer and spoiler reacting is probably not going to pay off with the game so close at this point. The overwhelming issue here is that we're going to start gunning for one anothers arguments when we still have a third game that won't drop until the latter part of the decade. There's a lot of snippets and details about the ending that I am just so hungry for to get to the context. That doesn't come close though to the amount of Cloud and Tifa that is about to apparently drop in this game. Seems to be cloti fanfic trope wonderland.

 

[insanehobbit]

Marketing aside (and LOL the TGA trailer is the biggest troll of all time), I feel like SE has been anything but ambiguous with where things stand in the Remake trilogy. Like shockingly so in Remake itself, and seemingly even more so in Rebirth based on the trailers & leaks.

Spoiler

Aerith's death is the emotional climax of Rebirth, and Cloud is the player character. Their relationship has to make you feel something. It'd be creative malpractice if it didn't. They're not gonna risk diminishing the emotional impact of this moment just so that a small minority of shippers don't get the wrong idea about their relationship.

If anything, it seems like SE has figured out a way to have their cake and eat it too with Rebirth, by expanding/moving up the development of Cloud's relationship with Tifa. By the end of Rebirth, the romantic nature of Cloud and Tifa's relationship will either be heavily implied (based on Gongaga) or explicit (if you get Tifa's GS date). Meanwhile, with Aerith's dream date from hell right before she dies, the game is cementing the importance of Cloud and Aerith's relationship, while leaving both characters, at the very least, questioning if that relationship is/should be romantic in nature.

Just like in the OG, Cloud and Aerith's dynamic could be resolved in two ways. An epic, star-crossed romance or a profound connection between two people who through their "courtship" realize their hearts lie with someone else. (And honestly, I think it's great, efficient writing because every seemingly romantic interaction between Cloud and Aerith develops three relationships at once). With the amount of Tifa we get in Rebirth, and with Zack seemingly sticking around through part 3, and his main/sole motivation in Rebirth being Aerith...is there really any question of where this was meant to go?

Meanwhile, as with the OG, there is only one direction Cloud and Tifa's relationship can go. They are each other's most "inevitable" character. Their connection is explicitly romantic from the start in a way that demands resolution by the end of the Remake trilogy.

 

[loozzer]

Marketing aside (and LOL the TGA trailer is the biggest troll of all time), I feel like SE has been anything but ambiguous with where things stand in the Remake trilogy. Like shockingly so in Remake itself, and seemingly even more so in Rebirth based on the trailers & leaks.

Spoiler

Aerith's death is the emotional climax of Rebirth, and Cloud is the player character. Their relationship has to make you feel something. It'd be creative malpractice if it didn't. They're not gonna risk diminishing the emotional impact of this moment just so that a small minority of shippers don't get the wrong idea about their relationship.

If anything, it seems like SE has figured out a way to have their cake and eat it too with Rebirth, by expanding/moving up the development of Cloud's relationship with Tifa. By the end of Rebirth, the romantic nature of Cloud and Tifa's relationship will either be heavily implied (based on Gongaga) or explicit (if you get Tifa's GS date). Meanwhile, with Aerith's dream date from hell right before she dies, the game is cementing the importance of Cloud and Aerith's relationship, while leaving both characters, at the very least, questioning if that relationship is/should be romantic in nature.

Just like in the OG, Cloud and Aerith's dynamic could be resolved in two ways. An epic, star-crossed romance or a profound connection between two people who through their "courtship" realize their hearts lie with someone else. (And honestly, I think it's great, efficient writing because every seemingly romantic interaction between Cloud and Aerith develops three relationships at once). With the amount of Tifa we get in Rebirth, and with Zack seemingly sticking around through part 3, and his main/sole motivation in Rebirth being Aerith...is there really any question of where this was meant to go?

Meanwhile, as with the OG, there is only one direction Cloud and Tifa's relationship can go. They are each other's most "inevitable" character. Their connection is explicitly romantic from the start in a way that demands resolution by the end of the Remake trilogy.

You're right but what's always bothered about the resolution of the love triangle is that there's never been real closure between cloud and aerith regarding their short lived "romance". The resolution has always been as a result of seeing cloud/tifa and zack/aerith together but it would be nice for cloud and aerith to properly have a discussion about the nature or their relationship, including the romantic aspect of it. I don't even mean killing it like "haha we maybe thought we had romantic feelings for each other but we actually loved other people all along isn't that weird!" Any sort of discussion would be fine. Even if they had said in AC something along the lines of "a part of me will always have romantic feelings for you" that would be nice.

 

[Rfcloud88]

My take on this LTD is think of it as parallels. When Cloud wasn’t seen around for awhile Tifa thought about him a lot and when Zack wasn’t around Aerith thought about him. So when Aerith stumbled across Cloud she was initially drawn to him bc he kinda reminded her of Zack, but slowly realized Zack can’t be replaced. So in a sense she slowly starts falling in love with Cloud wanting to move on. That’s why the discussion continues LTD. Maybe Zack will shine with his return haha

 

[shady]

You're right but what's always bothered about the resolution of the love triangle is that there's never been real closure between cloud and aerith regarding their short lived "romance". The resolution has always been as a result of seeing cloud/tifa and zack/aerith together but it would be nice for cloud and aerith to properly have a discussion about the nature or their relationship, including the romantic aspect of it. I don't even mean killing it like "haha we maybe thought we had romantic feelings for each other but we actually loved other people all along isn't that weird!" Any sort of discussion would be fine. Even if they had said in AC something along the lines of "a part of me will always have romantic feelings for you" that would be nice.

Spoilers for Rebirth
The Sector 5 date and Church section might be the only thing we get in this regard -- depending how you read the situation

 

[GamerSkull]

You're right but what's always bothered about the resolution of the love triangle is that there's never been real closure between cloud and aerith regarding their short lived "romance". The resolution has always been as a result of seeing cloud/tifa and zack/aerith together but it would be nice for cloud and aerith to properly have a discussion about the nature or their relationship, including the romantic aspect of it. I don't even mean killing it like "haha we maybe thought we had romantic feelings for each other but we actually loved other people all along isn't that weird!" Any sort of discussion would be fine. Even if they had said in AC something along the lines of "a part of me will always have romantic feelings for you" that would be nice.

Wouldn’t that last line cause even more shipping drama though?

 

[Rose Alive]

it's just a pet peeve of mine when SE does this. I guess it's because of my long history with the LTD debate (8+ years on this forum alone), and knowing very well where this scene will lead in terms of discussions and how it only damages the characters involved in the end.

This is why Cloud and Tifa are far from being my favorite ff couple. The vagueness and the shipteasing doesn't add anything to the relationships he has with Tifa and Aerith. It only takes away from them.

Rebirth looks like it's going to be a step in the right direction. But for some, the damage has already been done, and it wasn't because of the fandom.

 

[loozzer]

Spoilers for Rebirth
The Sector 5 date and Church section might be the only thing we get in this regard -- depending how you read the situation

Yea i saw those spoilers but it'd be nice for them to talk one last time after everything has settled. a proper straightforward conversation too rather than two people talking past each other.

 

[Legend45]

This is why Cloud and Tifa are far from being my favorite ff couple. The vagueness and the shipteasing doesn't add anything to the relationships he has with Tifa and Aerith. It only takes away from them.

Rebirth looks like it's going to be a step in the right direction. But for some, the damage has already been done, and it wasn't because of the fandom.

Yeah Rebirth seems to be following what Nomura said

 

[shady]

This is why Cloud and Tifa are far from being my favorite ff couple. The vagueness and the shipteasing doesn't add anything to the relationships he has with Tifa and Aerith. It only takes away from them.

Rebirth looks like it's going to be a step in the right direction. But for some, the damage has already been done, and it wasn't because of the fandom.

The problem is, just as the post above alludes to..

This game builds on Cloud and Tifa in a major way, like there are major parts of Rebirth where you can see it's all about Cloud and Tifa, in a romantic sense, all the tropes are there from a filmmaking and literary standpoint, which is what leads up to what we know happens (if you've been spoiled.) So I can see why they've done it especially if they do go on to replicate the Lifestream and Highwind scenes in Part 3, the relationship progression will look a lot more natural in this regard. But then they have to throw in this Cloud and Aerith stuff that -- whilst not necessarily explicitly romantic -- will keep the debate rumbling on regardless and it's tiring. We know, even as Cloud's voice actor said it's possible for characters to have multiple close relationships with partners and not every be about sexualization or romance, this is true. But if you want this to be the case then they need to stop throwing scenes that can be interpreted as romantic to one girl whilst throwing romantic scenes at the other girl too, and i'm not even talking about the optoinal stuff.

Really for the sake of the story and the characters they needed to pick a lane and stay in it, fully committed which I think they've done in Rebirth but they just couldn't help themselves by sprinkling in some for the other side. Now I lean a certain way when it comes to the shipping debate because I think it best serves the story, but it's getting to the point that I don't think most people even care anymore because they're sick of SE taking the cowards way out and not just addressing it properly, but always talking in vague ways and having scenes that can be interpreted in different ways. Just rip the band-aid off at this point, this is your chance. They need to do it in P3.

 

[loozzer]

Wouldn’t that last line cause even more shipping drama though?

Maybe, but I think for me I just want a proper idea about where each character stands. I don't like how cloud and aerith's relationship should have pretty big implications for cloud/tifa and zack/aerith but it's never acknowledged. like if cloud sees aerith romantically, how does that affect his love for tifa? how does tifa feel about it? personally, i think aerith and cloud will always have something that tifa and cloud can never have. They experience loneliness and loss in a way that's different from the rest of the party. It's true that Tifa lost everything as well but her experience is not quite the same as what cloud and aerith have in common. Even though I think cloud/tifa are endgame and i prefer them as a couple, i really would like to see how cloud's connection to aerith plays into their relationship instead of them just being like "aerith's our dead friend who we really cared about!".

anyways i actually do think that cloud/aerith could've been a pretty epic romance. I see a vision for it - twin flames, mirrors of each other, etc. but that's just not the relationship that the devs gave us, so now i need them to not be so annoyingly baity and give cloud/tifa a proper love story instead of ruining two good relationships, three if you count zack/aerith.