GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Have Cetra been known to access people’s memories at will though?
There may be an actual example but I can’t think of one at the moment.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
There may be an actual example but I can’t think of one at the moment.
gulava
Lv. 25 Adventurer
they can access memories as long as the individual is dead lol
i think it was mentioned in one of the novels? correct me if im mistaken
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Can they? I always believed they can feel what the person is feeling as they pass on. Not that they can access their memories.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
They really did show a lot in the Gongaga sequence, however this is the favourite sequence of the devs. In fact the Lifestream sequence in the OG may not have any CGI scene (which is why many player underrated it) but it's one of the biggest sequences in the OG. I once replayed the OG and, arriving at that point thought "oh it's ok" without seeing the time, I had to crash the game and restart it next day because it was getting really late.
So they probably are breaking in two; in this sequence, we saw Tifa's memories. But in the next game, we're going to see Cloud's memories. And I think since they've shown a lot, they're going to focus on the intimate part, aka Cloud's feelings for Tifa.
Narratively though, this makes sense; after that big attack from Sephiroth and her losing hold on Cloud, she needed reassurance about him. This also refocus the Planet vs Sephiroth plot, and gives lore about the Weapons! Think about it now: One Weapon is attacking Junon later on... right where Tifa was held and was going to die; another one attacked Mideel, and Cloud and Tifa fall into the Lifestream. And if there are Weapons obeying the Planet, it also should mean that there are Weapons corrupted, maybe?
Hix
Pro Adventurer
Like it even contradicts Maiden - actual CA fanfiction - wherein Aerith has to admit only Tifa can piece together Cloud's broken mind because the pieces are literally Tifa.
In fact I'm not sure Cleriths have thought this one through. Do they really want their idealised version of Aerith to go into Cloud's conscious only to discover he loves and has always loved Tifa? Like ok, but I think Aerith (and everyone else really) deserves better than that.
gulava
Lv. 25 Adventurer
“Because it would be dangerous for her to come in contact with him, the woman tried to keep away from the man’s consciousness. Because of this, she couldn’t learn much of the man’s plot. However, just once, when the man’s spirit had suddenly appeared near her, she discovered that he had made his memories of Cloud the core of his being.”
“Beneath the surface of enmity were hidden memories. Memories from their lives as normal people. While unremarkable, they had many joyous memories as well. She released those thoughts and dissolved them into the Lifestream. Having lost the core of their emotions, the surface animosity disappeared”
On the Way to a Smile – Lifestream Black and Lifestream White - The Lifestream
A big thanks to Hitoshura who has now finished translating the new installment from the On the Way to a Smile book; the Lifestream White and Lifestream Black chapters. Each of these chapters were at the end of each On the Way to a Smile story of the book, for a total of 6 chapters.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
This is while she’s in the Lifestream. I won’t deny she essentially becomes like a God at that point, I meant from before death. The Lifestream sequence can’t happen with an alive Aerith, assuming she takes Tifa’s place.“Because it would be dangerous for her to come in contact with him, the woman tried to keep away from the man’s consciousness. Because of this, she couldn’t learn much of the man’s plot. However, just once, when the man’s spirit had suddenly appeared near her, she discovered that he had made his memories of Cloud the core of his being.”
“Beneath the surface of enmity were hidden memories. Memories from their lives as normal people. While unremarkable, they had many joyous memories as well. She released those thoughts and dissolved them into the Lifestream. Having lost the core of their emotions, the surface animosity disappeared”
On the Way to a Smile – Lifestream Black and Lifestream White - The Lifestream
A big thanks to Hitoshura who has now finished translating the new installment from the On the Way to a Smile book; the Lifestream White and Lifestream Black chapters. Each of these chapters were at the end of each On the Way to a Smile story of the book, for a total of 6 chapters.thelifestream.net
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Dude did you even read Cloud's novella, I beg of you do read it lol. It's already written there, he did it because he wants to become a special person for Tifa.
Edit: and yes, Remake asserts that the Lifestream is made of memories from the past, the present and the future. And powerful beings like Aerith and Sephiroth have access to those memories.
starcape91
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- starcape91
Yeah, I loved it. Thought it was great.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Yes, I did. I even mentioned it in one of my recent posts. I’m saying Clerith fans probably want that…. Not myself.
And I stated that it won’t be changed because they’ve recently acknowledge it.
And yes, it was a nice story. I read it like an hour before Rebirth came out to pass the time lol
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Oh okay, I missed that mb. Nojima even said it was important to understand Cloud as he was entering Rebirth so yeah. And clearly the game is making more pulls from ToTP, but since we still haven't gotten real Cloud, I expect we will get pulls from this one in the last Re-.
Rin
Pro Adventurer
I think what's the most frustrating about Clerith talking points is that its always projection. The idea that Cloud kisses Tifa out of pity comes from the fact that you can read Cloud choosing to hold Aerith's hand as an action of comfort. They reject that though and instead choose to project that idea onto his relationship with Tifa. Same thing goes for their idea that Tifa should've been the one to die so that Aerith can fix his mind. They don't like that Aerith is the external heroine and Tifa is the internal one, so they project their discomfort with that onto Tifa again. It's pretty tiring lol
We saw the same twitter. It would be very interesting to watch when Aerith goes into Cloud’s mind and see all Tifa. How romantic! I bet CA will enjoy it a lot.
They have to give Tifa something to believe on. In the past everyone told Tifa it is Cloud who egged her. But that is not the truth, and Tifa knew that now. I think it is actually a built up for “I don’t care what other people says, only your opinion matters”
AncientGrimoire
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Grim
“Clerith is canon because you have to complete Aerith’s sidequests to unlock the other characters.”
“Clerith is canon because Aerith told Cloud she loved him in the church and Cloud will fight to find a way to save her in Part 3 to tell her he loves her.”
“Cloti isn’t canon because Cloud was being Soldier Cloud when he kissed Tifa, he didn’t want to, his face shows how bored and uncomfortable he is with her, he just did what he was made to do because Tifa gaslights and lies to him the whole game.”
“Clerith is canon because he holds her her hand that says I love you, his heart is doki doki, and if you look at his face he doesn’t have Soldier Cloud face he has Real Cloud face because Aerith is the only one who brings out real Cloud.”
“Clerith is canon because Loveless proves Aerith is the princess that must be saved by her knight Cloud, whereas Tifa is just a bartender.”
…
I’m deleting my Twitter and getting a lobotomy
*also note to self, DON’T read YouTube comments, for FFVII videos, and just in general
“Clerith is canon because Aerith told Cloud she loved him in the church and Cloud will fight to find a way to save her in Part 3 to tell her he loves her.”
“Cloti isn’t canon because Cloud was being Soldier Cloud when he kissed Tifa, he didn’t want to, his face shows how bored and uncomfortable he is with her, he just did what he was made to do because Tifa gaslights and lies to him the whole game.”
“Clerith is canon because he holds her her hand that says I love you, his heart is doki doki, and if you look at his face he doesn’t have Soldier Cloud face he has Real Cloud face because Aerith is the only one who brings out real Cloud.”
“Clerith is canon because Loveless proves Aerith is the princess that must be saved by her knight Cloud, whereas Tifa is just a bartender.”
…
I’m deleting my Twitter and getting a lobotomy
*also note to self, DON’T read YouTube comments, for FFVII videos, and just in general
luminous03
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Play
For youtube you just need to watch cloti video, other than that it's pretty toxic
Rose Alive
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Always hungry
At least Twitter is working on their creative writing skills. Lurking on Reddit I see they're still clinging hard to the "nothing is canon" argument.
Rin
Pro Adventurer
It's just weird cause they obviously don't like FFVII? Like you can't like FFVII if you go out of your way to twist every little detail.
They ignore that Cloud opts to sit away from Aerith every time she invites him to sit directly next to her (This is 3x he's done this now--the park in S5, the water tower in Nibelheim, and the skywheel in GS). He CHOOSES to put distance, leaving Aerith to be the one to have to make the effort to fill the gap. Aerith is also hurt every time he chooses to keep his distance as well, she's especially hurt by it in the GS date its written all over her face.
She asks him to let her have this, just for tonight and he either sits there uncomfortably as she leans against him (standard) or he'll hold her hand but refuse to look her in the eye (intimate) but they claim this MORE romantic than him looking Tifa right in the eye and directly confirming that he feels the same way about her as she does about him in BOTH versions of her date. It's sheer madness! Ship whatever you want, I'm highly encouraging of that, but just stop jumping through hoops to twist shit around.
starcape91
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- starcape91
They want Cloud as their boyfriend. Plain and simple. Aerith is less of a threat than Tifa for Cloud's affection, so they cling to her. Nothing else matters in the story to them, even Cloud's whole character arc.
They also cling desperately to the idea that both Cloud and Aerith were always bullied (Tifa being queen of the bullies to Cloud) and had horrible childhoods and that's why they bond. Nojima's response to those suggestions was pretty clear and I love him for it. There's also a nice bit of dialogue in a sidequest in Rebirth where Cloud notes that they actually "had it pretty good" as kids (this is in reference to home-cooked meals, but I think he's also realizing his childhood wasn't that terrible overall, and he made it harder for himself) In the cat sidequest he also talks about how he wasn't happy to play alone, but that it was kind of his own fault. This is something that he doesn't really come to terms with in the OG until the Lifestream sequence, so this is more setting up for that to really hone in on his feelings for Tifa, and not just the village in general.
They also cling desperately to the idea that both Cloud and Aerith were always bullied (Tifa being queen of the bullies to Cloud) and had horrible childhoods and that's why they bond. Nojima's response to those suggestions was pretty clear and I love him for it. There's also a nice bit of dialogue in a sidequest in Rebirth where Cloud notes that they actually "had it pretty good" as kids (this is in reference to home-cooked meals, but I think he's also realizing his childhood wasn't that terrible overall, and he made it harder for himself) In the cat sidequest he also talks about how he wasn't happy to play alone, but that it was kind of his own fault. This is something that he doesn't really come to terms with in the OG until the Lifestream sequence, so this is more setting up for that to really hone in on his feelings for Tifa, and not just the village in general.
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AncientGrimoire
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Grim
I recently played through Costa del Sol, and found Jenny to be a fascinating character, and a neat lens through which any argument against Tifa’s character falls flat upon witnessing only a small fraction of the kindness Tifa is capable of.
Doesn’t stop some from still outright hating her for reasons that more often than not I feel come down to simple, jealousy, at the end of the day. That, and she’s a threat with a capital T to their ship.
That entire quest was also a complete Cactuar’s 1000 Needles to the oft trotted out argument that Tifa and Johnny were girlfriend and boyfriend.
Doesn’t stop some from still outright hating her for reasons that more often than not I feel come down to simple, jealousy, at the end of the day. That, and she’s a threat with a capital T to their ship.
That entire quest was also a complete Cactuar’s 1000 Needles to the oft trotted out argument that Tifa and Johnny were girlfriend and boyfriend.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Honestly, even on YouTube most regular fans seem to go with what’s canon. Which is Cloud and Tifa.
But yeah, those are all some bizarre arguments, especially the part about Real Cloud whom Aerith never met before death.
The Loveless one is just funny.
But yeah, those are all some bizarre arguments, especially the part about Real Cloud whom Aerith never met before death.
The Loveless one is just funny.
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faefolk
Pro Adventurer
It's definitely a very weird thing to consider because it doesn't really make any narrative sense to have Tifa die. So shipping aside I would be pissed if Tifa died because they would be completely altering the entire story. I've always maintained with the remake that I'm okay with changes so long as the story beats of the original game stay more or less the same. Happy for them to add stuff on but killing Tifa would alter part three so drastically that I would not be happy.
Rin
Pro Adventurer
Reminds me of how one of the biggest CA fans actually admitted she hates Aerith but she hates Tifa more lmaoooooo
faefolk
Pro Adventurer
They really do. Some of the posts are super disturbing with how weirdly obsessive they are. They needa go touch grass or something. He's a fictional character man.
But like, also.. why the hell would anyone wanna date Cloud? Be his friend sure... Help get him into therapy? Yes. But date? Bros issues have issues. Honestly I'm happy to ship Cloud and Tifa in their fictional world because of their shared history, trauma bond and quiet understanding of one another but heck, if Cloud somehow manifested in the real world I really would only be shipping him with therapy.