SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Empyrea

Pro Adventurer
I feel like she still gets a huge expansion on what was present in the OG though.
She did. The thing is...what she had in OG by itself wasn't a lot, either ^^;
Almost everyone I knew who weren't shippers thought she was just a plot device. Hell, the guys who got me to play the game encouraged me to use her just so I'd have the handicap of having to build a 3rd character after disc 1.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Almost everyone I knew who weren't shippers thought she was just a plot device.
Unfortunately, she is. Even now. I specifically didn't want her to die this time because they've transformed her death into a plot device with more and more compilation materials.
 

Empyrea

Pro Adventurer
Unfortunately, she is. Even now. I specifically didn't want her to die this time because they've transformed her death into a plot device with more and more compilation materials.
And then there's my sister, whose joke is always that 10-year-old her thought Aerith was a scammer :awesome:

Edit to add: I was also hoping that they'd expand more on her Cetra heritage for exactly that reason.
 

starcape91

Pro Adventurer
AKA
starcape91
I have preferred Remake Aerith to Rebirth Aerith so far overall. I know some people didn't, but I liked her knowing smile when she saw the flower at Seventh Heaven, she seemed calmer and more introspective, but she still had the fun/silly side. However, if she had all of her memories then Rebirth wouldn't have followed the OG too much right? And I really wanted it to follow the OG mostly, so...can't have everything I want.
 

Empyrea

Pro Adventurer
Seeing someone having to deal with the fact that meeting people who would be her friends and then dying shortly after was something that I thought was sooooo ripe for drama. I was excited for it! But no, she reverted back almost 1:1 to OG!Aerith....
 

starcape91

Pro Adventurer
AKA
starcape91
Seeing someone having to deal with the fact that meeting people who would be her friends and then dying shortly after was something that I thought was sooooo ripe for drama. I was excited for it! But no, she reverted back almost 1:1 to OG!Aerith....
In some ways, yeah, but I still think she's a step up from OG Aerith. And unlike in the OG, now they have to walk a fine line with facial expressions, body language and voice acting to make sure Cloud doesn't seem like he's either a: trying to have both Tifa and Aerith, or b: building things up with Tifa and then being super romantic with Aerith.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
And then there's my sister, whose joke is always that 10-year-old her thought Aerith was a scammer :awesome:
To be fair, so did Cloud LOL

EDIT: Honestly, I've seen a lot of complaints about her characterization for Rebirth but I don't get it. Most I've seen comes from shippers who keep comparing her to Jessie and saying she's a bad friend to Tifa/disrespectful to Cloud, etc. Personally, I don't see what the hell they're talking about but lol I let them have it.
 

starcape91

Pro Adventurer
AKA
starcape91
I don't have any huge complaints really. Just that maybe there was too much emphasis on the "date" stuff when it came to her. But nothing major.
 

Empyrea

Pro Adventurer
To be fair, so did Cloud LOL

EDIT: Honestly, I've seen a lot of complaints about her characterization for Rebirth but I don't get it. Most I've seen comes from shippers who keep comparing her to Jessie and saying she's a bad friend to Tifa/disrespectful to Cloud, etc. Personally, I don't see what the hell they're talking about but lol I let them have it.
I also don't. I maybe not like Rebirth Aerith as much as the Remake one, but base behavior aside, she's still a vast improvement.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Yeah my complaints about Aerith aren't actually complaints about Aerith, but more complaints on how she's treated by the narrative. I didn't need a whole game about her trying to figure out how she feels about Cloud and tbh I would've just preferred the whole thing get cleared up at Gold Saucer vs. extending it to the dream date. We could've just done the whole "Nakama" thing sooner and had Aerith's arc move on from all that and focus on more important stuff but no!

My greatest worry was that they made her entire arc about a man (Zack or Cloud, doesn't matter) and while I'm grateful that didn't quite happen it was like 80% there.
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
And here is the proof the only date you don’t need to see to get platinum is Aerith’s

I have only 1 date with Tifa and I got Aerith’s collectibles as well

EDIT: the date I have with Tifa is the HA version one. So it counted for both HA and LA in the playlog
 

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Someonesbunny

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Rabbit
EDIT: Honestly, I've seen a lot of complaints about her characterization for Rebirth but I don't get it. Most I've seen comes from shippers who keep comparing her to Jessie and saying she's a bad friend to Tifa/disrespectful to Cloud, etc. Personally, I don't see what the hell they're talking about but lol I let them have it.

I thought that this might have come from the disconnect from her characterization from Remake - with an extra magical, possibly clairvoyant version of herself - then what seems to be a behaviour change explained by the "whispers took my memories" exposition lol
 

starcape91

Pro Adventurer
AKA
starcape91
In interviews for both Remake and Rebirth the devs have said they were careful to give Aerith and Tifa equal attention. I wonder how that will work for Part 3.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I thought that this might have come from the disconnect from her characterization from Remake - with an extra magical, possibly clairvoyant version of herself - then what seems to be a behaviour change explained by the "whispers took my memories" exposition lol
Yeah, definitely. I also think some people are just determined to hate her. Like it's very obvious Tifa and Aerith have had long, in-depth talks about a lot of different things including the dreaded "love triangle." When Cloud says Aerith must still have feelings for Zack, Tifa says it's more complicated than that--which means she probably knows all about Aeriths confusion regarding Zack/Cloud's similarities. Even in Gongaga, Aerith says to Tifa, "Well, guess that proves he really doesn't know Zack after all..." and Tifa immediately rushes over to comfort her.

It's clear, at least to me, that Tifa is well aware of what's happening with Aerith on a deeper level, so it's silly to accuse Aerith of being catty or backstabby toward Tifa for simply trying to figure out how she feels about Cloud.

EDIT:

@starcape91 I'm gonna guess it'll be split between whatever Aerith is doing w/ Zack and then OG storyline, so a similar setup to Rebirth but with more time spent on the alternate world/scenes.
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, definitely. I also think some people are just determined to hate her. Like it's very obvious Tifa and Aerith have had long, in-depth talks about a lot of different things including the dreaded "love triangle." When Cloud says Aerith must still have feelings for Zack, Tifa says it's more complicated than that--which means she probably knows all about Aeriths confusion regarding Zack/Cloud's similarities. Even in Gongaga, Aerith says to Tifa, "Well, guess that proves he really doesn't know Zack after all..." and Tifa immediately rushes over to comfort her.

It's clear, at least to me, that Tifa is well aware of what's happening with Aerith on a deeper level, so it's silly to accuse Aerith of being catty or backstabby toward Tifa for simply trying to figure out how she feels about Cloud.

EDIT:

@starcape91 I'm gonna guess it'll be split between whatever Aerith is doing w/ Zack and then OG storyline, so a similar setup to Rebirth but with more time spent on the alternate world/scenes.
It feels like some people just hate the CA shippers too much and direct the anger to Aerith instead. You know, those kind of things to find the flaws in the character to prove CA is a nasty ship. Happened for Tifa as well
I never get it.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
It feels like some people just hate the CA shippers too much and direct the anger to Aerith instead. You know, those kind of things to find the flaws in the character to prove CA is a nasty ship. Happened for Tifa as well
I never get it.
Exactly. It's so unnecessary. There are some characters I dislike bc their fans are insufferable but those types of characters are usually in minimal, supporting roles with no actual content to work against their annoying fan base lol which is unfortunate. But Aerith does not fall into that category, so idk why people let a bad bunch colour their entire perception of her.
 

MelodicEnigma

Pro Adventurer
Ya idk their process completely, I just know that Square Enix has an in-house translation team that works out of HQ. The only thing SENA does is get the script into the hands of the VAs, and sometimes they will change the script if the actor points out something problematic. For example, SENA works closely with Barrets VA to relay any potential racial sensitivities in the script back to HQ so that Barret is coming across correctly to NA audiences. But the actual translation itself is done at their head office.
Only the NA one, though I do wonder if this time they didn't give some of the EN script to the FR (and apparently SP) teams to save money (since it's cheaper to hire EN translator than JP ones).

Nothing concerning LtD on my part, but yup. Though at times you will have translators at other offices, too, in addition to who is directly a part of the development team. Seemingly, very rarely will it just be translators somewhere else and not in-house. This is the case for most, if not all languages—FR and SP are in-house too and typically localize from the Japanese as well (unless we have retroactive instances where ENG localizers are the ones who actually are responsible for what exists across the board—they're often given this opportunity more than other languages supposedly).
 

JaeKony

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JaeKony
In interviews for both Remake and Rebirth the devs have said they were careful to give Aerith and Tifa equal attention. I wonder how that will work for Part 3.
I’m honestly going to guess that Aerith will have a larger role to play in Part 3 than she did in OG. That being said, I do think they will keep her interactions with the main party to a minimum and she will be relegated to a role either similar to or in conjunction with Zack where the two of them will be working via the Lifestream and/or alternate timelines to foil Sephiroth’s plans.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
Cloud and Aerith overall always gave me, personally, very strong Aragorn and Éowyn vibes (I’m first and foremost a Tolkien’s Legendarium scholar/nerd :geek: )

“I have wished you joy since first I saw you.”

I mean I always kind of got this feeling, but Rebirth, and how Cloud acts in the Gold Saucer date and the end kind of dialled this up for me.
This is exactly how I've been feeling, especially post-Rebirth.

I think Aragorn's full quote describes the CA relationship to a tee: "It is but a shadow and a thought that you love. I cannot give you what you seek. I have you wished you joy since first I saw you." (but lbr, Cloud could never be so articulate).

Eowyn's feelings for Aragorn are instrumental to her character arc, but the culmination of her arc does not require those feelings to be reciprocated (in fact, very much the opposite is true). Meanwhile, Aragorn and Arwen's arcs are intrinsically tied to one another, their relationship, and the reciprocity of their feelings, and Eowyn has nothing to do with it. The biggest obstacle in their relationship isn't another woman, but...Sauron.

Replace those names, and that's basically the "love triangle" in FF7.

In TTT, there are many moments where Aragorn is quite tender towards Eowyn, so the audience understands why she develops those feelings, and people who never read the books may legitimately be confused as to what his feelings are for her, but everything becomes clear by ROTK.

Similiarly in Rebirth there are enough scenes of Cloud being kind to Aerith that could be interpreted as romantic, so we can understand why Aerith is able to keep her hopes alive (even though I think they're really toeing the line in Rebirth, since there are also many moments where Cloud can be -- optional or not -- quite rude to her).

My biggest gripe with Rebirth is that it feels like the "shadow" Aerith is chasing is literally seeing the shadow of Zack in Cloud. I found the writing for her character in this game rather inconsistent and to the very end, her motivations opaque. It's kind of how I felt about Advent Children, where I can see what they were going for, but found the execution lacking.

The tragedy of her character is that she is someone who just wants to be a normal girl, doing normal things like trying to sort out her romantic feelings for two different guys, but she can never be normal because she's the last of her kind, destined for something greater and ultimately, destined to die. The problem is I feel like Rebirth leaned way too far into the first part of that sentence, and I have to imagine it's because they brought back Zack and made his motivation almost entirely about saving her. Aerith's mixed up feelings are then used as a way to bridge Cloud and Zack's storylines.

This is especially clear in the "dream date" in Ch. 14. Nothing about it should be taken at face value, and I think it's more a meta-commentary on the immutability of fate than anything, but it also doesn't really make much sense as a culmination of Cloud and Aerith's relationship. Mostly because there's almost no development for said relationship throughout this very long game. Not that they don't share any scenes together, but there's little to no progression. In Ch. 2, Cloud is uncomfortable when Aerith tries to make their Clock Tower outing romantic by calling it a date, and in Ch. 11 & 12 (granted these are optional), Cloud is again uncomfortable when Aerith tries to make things too intimate/romantic by asking him to sit near her and he pointedly sits farther away in both instances.

Even without looking at the menu and realizing that the game considers this part of Zack's "interlude," the entire thing is framed by Zack's story and by the dramatic question that was initially raised by Marlene earlier in the game - Does Aerith have feelings for Cloud? - but this is not about the two of them, this about how Zack feels about this and how he deals with it. The tension throughout the date is that they're going through the motions, they do seem like a couple (even though all the NPCs say otherwise), and maybe Zack's fears are true.

Of course, by the end of it, we the player, know that's not the case. Because even after they go through all the motions, even in a world where Zack and Tifa don't exist, by the end of the date, the conclusion Aerith herself comes to is that she's not sure if her feelings for Cloud are romantic after all. Not to mention, while Aerith has to lead Cloud herself to "Our Place" -- in every single fucking universe Zack somehow finds his way there on his own. This game doesn't explicitly spell it out, and Zack remains unaware to add some dramatic irony/emotional conflict to carry us through the third game, but all the clues are there.

This dream date is really not relevant to Cloud's arc at all. Cloud's arc in Rebirth is all about his fucked up mind. Aerith, like the rest of the party, can tell there's something wrong with him, but the only person he confides in is Tifa. Obviously, his reaction to Aerith's death exacerbates his mental decline, but all the stuff that happens in the other "world" before her death isn't really relevant. (If anything, this date just fucks him up more because Aerith is trying to get him to live out the life of the man he's pretending to be, but I have to imagine it's not the game's intention for her actions to be perceived this way, more of an unintended consequence of questionable writing.)

It's also technically works as a culmination of Aerith's personal arc in as much as the game bothered to give her one. The one thing that this games does progress are her feelings about Zack -- in Gongaga where she tries to pretend she's over him though it's obvious she's not; in Cosmo Canyon, where she feels his hand in the Lifestream; in the Gold Saucer, where I guess we're supposed to believe that she's finally beginning to accept that he's probably dead (though the fact that this is hidden in the optional dates is another baffling narrative choice). So then this "dream date" is, like on the Gondola, her trying to move on, except either consciously or subconsciously, she just ends up recreating her date with Zack, so she clearly hasn't. Which again, is an outcome predetermined by the fact that they brought back Zack and made his motivation all about her. They're not gonna make Zack's arc be all about trying to fight destiny in hopes of saving/reuniting with her, if she -- even if she wavers -- isn't going to be waiting.

So in the Church, Aerith resolves (or at least is working towards the inevitable resolution of) her romantic feelings, and also gets Cloud to give her her MacGuffin so she can fulfill her duty as a Cetra? I guess? Then us getting her big speech about life and death and looking towards the future in the Temple of the Ancients before the dream date feels...backwards. Idek.

It's extremely frustrating that we never get Aerith's own POV on her motivations in what is supposed to be her game (especially when we get tremendous insight into Tifa's motivations through her own POV in Ch. 9). Instead of putting us in her shoes as she leaves the party (and as she goes to what she probably realizes is her death?) and letting us sit with those conflicted feelings, we see everything through the eyes of an extremely unreliable narrator just so the ending can be the kind of mindfuck that invites debate rather than a fitting, bittersweet sendoff for her character.

If only because almost every other character in this game is so well-drawn (with such clear arcs), Aerith ends up feeling more like a plot device here (and more damningly a plot device to service the arcs of two different men this time) than she did in the OG. A gaping flaw in an otherwise very good game, especially since so much of this comes at the end.
 

MelodicEnigma

Pro Adventurer
@Rin Oh, lol, just of interest—I just took a peak at the credits and for ENG, there's some interesting honorable mentions this time around. They literally hired Elizabeth Bushouse, who for the FF7 community at least was known for providing scripts of JPN/ENG scripts for Remake for the fandom, to work on the localization too. She of course did stuff before Remake, and did a bunch after 2020, but interesting they got somebody from the community to work on the translation. Got one of the FF12/Tactics translators from back in the day as well, and the other notable usuals. Very interesting.

I remember Elizabeth had some things to say about the LtD portrayal in the Remake, so I wonder if that affected anything.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Nothing concerning LtD on my part, but yup. Though at times you will have translators at other offices, too, in addition to who is directly a part of the development team. Seemingly, very rarely will it just be translators somewhere else and not in-house. This is the case for most, if not all languages—FR and SP are in-house too and typically localize from the Japanese as well (unless we have retroactive instances where ENG localizers are the ones who actually are responsible for what exists across the board—they're often given this opportunity more than other languages supposedly).
Yeah but I don't like having to rely on the EN localisation; French accepts high subtleties languages and do pretty well with them because French itself is a high context language. The work on Remake was remarkable so it feels a loss for me there (even more if they continue this trend).

Also the French works with the JP mouthing since it's dubbed, so if the script they get is the EN one, it just doesn't work very well.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
@Rin Oh, lol, just of interest—I just took a peak at the credits and for ENG, there's some interesting honorable mentions this time around. They literally hired Elizabeth Bushouse, who for the FF7 community at least was known for providing scripts of JPN/ENG scripts for Remake for the fandom, to work on the localization too. She of course did stuff before Remake, and did a bunch after 2020, but interesting they got somebody from the community to work on the translation. Got one of the FF12/Tactics translators from back in the day as well, and the other notable usuals. Very interesting.

I remember Elizabeth had some things to say about the LtD portrayal in the Remake, so I wonder if that affected anything.
Oh? 👀 What did she have to say about the LtD, if you remember? I'm curious
 

MelodicEnigma

Pro Adventurer
Yeah but I don't like having to rely on the EN localisation; French accepts high subtleties languages and do pretty well with them because French itself is a high context language. The work on Remake was remarkable so it feels a loss for me there (even more if they continue this trend).

Also the French works with the JP mouthing since it's dubbed, so if the script they get is the EN one, it just doesn't work very well.

I would be willing to bet that they didn't do the entirety of the script from the ENG version, but it certainly isn't impossible or at least for certain parts.

Oh? 👀 What did she have to say about the LtD, if you remember? I'm curious

I want to say it was something for a podcast if you want to check it out, though I could be wrong.

Edit: Nah I think I was actually thinking about this article by someone else, which had things I disagreed with of course, but otherwise yeah, different person I was thinking of, though I'd listen to the podcast anyway.
 
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AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
In interviews for both Remake and Rebirth the devs have said they were careful to give Aerith and Tifa equal attention. I wonder how that will work for Part 3.

To be completely honest, as much as they may have stated this, I haven’t found it to be true, especially for Remake.

Tifa is present and playable for 15 of the 18 chapters in Remake. The only chapter she is completely absent from is 2. In 1 and 8 where she isn’t present she still gets mentioned and there are flashbacks to her as a child from Cloud’s perspective. Legit Tifa has the second most screen time and presence in the game after Cloud himself.

Aerith undoubtedly has more importance to the overall story, especially in the latter half, but of the 18 chapters Aerith is only playable for 7 of them. This is mitigated a bit by 8 and 9 being very long chapters to make up for the fact she is absent for 4 entire chapters after her introduction in 2. But then she is also completely absent for another three whole chapters before her rescue in 16. So chapters 17 and 18 again are in a position where the have to pick up the slack, and are again long chapters (not just to Aerith’s benefit, but Red XIII’s as well as he has only just been introduced and there needs to be enough time to properly establish the dynamic he has with the party, but also allow the entire five to get that time together)

Rebirth was properly the time to give Aerith all the presence and time this part of the story required of her. She deserved to be centre stage as the marketing and developer comments would suggest and indicate. But aside from Chapter 2, and the latter two chapters, Aerith kind of takes a backseat to everyone else? Which I get as Barret and Red need their moments in the story here too, but honestly Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is what propels things on an emotional and wider narrative level more than Aerith does, until end where it’s finally time for her to shine and yet this is also the point where she steps out of things, and part 3 proceeds with her very much in the background.

So to me they may have said that they’ve given both heroines equal attention, but it feels like they’ve given Tifa way more attention and prominence, maybe to properly facilitate the major importance she ends up taking in part 3, at the expense of Aerith, especially in Rebirth where it’s the part of the original she takes up an important role.

As someone who loves Tifa I’m not complaining she isn’t just in the background in Rebirth like she kind of was in the original at this point in the story, but I could have done with Aerith actually be given the attention she should have had in this part as well. I know the balance to these things is always tricky, so I too would be interested to see how part 3 handles this.
 
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