SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[CldS7]

i think if they do show that world again, theres a reason they didn't confirm dead or alive. possibly she might be needed to wake up that Cloud
or part of Cloud?

this is what I was speculating about. I just think its a massive thing that they never showed us Tifa dying on screen in that 'world' knowing how important she is

what if Tifa is the one who who can wake up Cloud in that world

Will the scenes of Tifa in that world run simultaneously with what happens in the main world as well.

 

[c.lupara]

My theory regarding timelines and lifestream is very simple.

One thing we know for sure is that Zack jumps like a kangaroo between one timeline and another.
What made me think is that every time he makes a choice (Biggs, Hojo) he is promptly surrounded by Shinra soldiers;
this led me to only one conclusion and that is that in any case fate repeats itself and he dies.

The only time this doesn't happen or at least not like this is when it's outside the church. Here he is made to disappear from the dimension by Uncle Sephiroth and then guided to Cloud by Aerith probably.

All these timelines and all these worlds have one thing in common and that is that they are worlds, according to Uncle Sephiroth, that have agreed to collapse (meteors).

All worlds/timelines return to the lifestream (always Uncle Sephiroth docet) and return to the moment of destruction.

Obviously the only one who seems to be able to travel between timelines is Aerith (v. dream) who according to my theory is nothing more than a version of her already made into a kebab and who reunited with the lifestream to defeat Sephiroth.

Long story short:
timeline are nothing more than a narrative method for:

1) Zack and Aerith reunion

2) Justify Cloud's visions in ACC

So even if I was partly right, all these ultra-dimensional things will collapse on themselves to allow the only true reality to continue to exist and at the same time it would allow for a happy, and at the same time bittersweet, ending for everyone.

 

[Sacky]

this is what I was speculating about. I just think its a massive thing that they never showed us Tifa dying on screen in that 'world' knowing how important she is

what if Tifa is the one who who can wake up Cloud in that world

Will the scenes of Tifa in that world run simultaneously with what happens in the main world as well.

thats my thought process aswell. i think Zacks story if that world exists we still don't know since we don't know where Zack in the church at the end.
Might be a whole rescue them from wherever the helicopters have taken them. Though im not too positive in this since how do you wake Tifa up and why are they unconscious in the first place possibly from tornado but that seems too obvious

 

[thetriplerhyme]

One reason why i don't like the other timeline theories are "Aerith will save him this time.. its not TIFA anymore.." excuse me she can't even stop Cloud chasing her from white materia. Can't stop cloud nearly killing Elena.

In Zack's timeline they wanna wake up Cloud? They need to have Tifa there.. w/c is as I understand she's no longer there or dead. If I got it correct? ( anything on Zack's existence is pure blurred for me.. I never understood the logic on that world )

 

[GamerSkull]

To get back on topic, personally… as far as Tifa and Cloud go. I expect the LS sequence to be around the midpoint of Part 3. That way we get at least half the game playing as the true Cloud.

I think the Northern Cave will be pretty early, (Chapter 2 or 3). There are some that theorized it would happen much later but I don’t feel that way, I think it’s gonna happen early. We’ll have Icicle Inn to re-establish and get re-acquainted with the characters and then Northern Cave stuff directly after.

Since this is the final act in a trilogy, I think the game is going to move rather quickly pacing-wise.

 

[liuliuliu]

To be honest I really don't know how they're going to fit everything that's left from OG (and things they wildly seems to have expanded on line Wutai) and finish up whatever they're trying to do with the timelines in a satisfying way in just one game.

skip all mini games

 

[Sacky]

One reason why i don't like the other timeline theories are "Aerith will save him this time.. its not TIFA anymore.." excuse me she can't even stop Cloud chasing her from white materia. Can't stop cloud nearly killing Elena.

In Zack's timeline they wanna wake up Cloud? They need to have Tifa there.. w/c is as I understand she's no longer there or dead. If I got it correct? ( anything on Zack's existence is pure blurred for me.. I never understood the logic on that world )

i Think Zacks world is a lifestream dream world and the unconscious Cloud is part of his real persona, the other is in Tifas lifestream subconscious, which is why that Cloud appeared in her trial even though he shouldn't be there. I legit just think this is all to explain the multiple Clouds that appear in the Lifestream sequence. Plus have Zack Aerith fanservice and how they appear in Advent. The rift in the sky being the same one in the OG lifestream just seems to perfect to not be the truth

 

[thetriplerhyme]

i Think Zacks world is a lifestream dream world and the unconscious Cloud is part of his real persona, the other is in Tifas lifestream subconscious,

I accept these cuz i geniunely have zero idea on his world. But if they want to 'save cloud' there or wake him up they need Tifa. If she's gone or dead or whatever i'm not sure if that will be possible. I guess well know in part 3

 

[Sacky]

I accept these cuz i geniunely have zero idea on his world. But if they want to 'save cloud' there or wake him up they need Tifa. If she's gone or dead or whatever i'm not sure if that will be possible. I guess well know in part 3

There are so many hints in the game about the world but each one has so many plot holes, probably on purpose. I don't think we are meant to know about the Zack world/lifestream until part 3 anyway.
Hearing that theory on twitter about part of Clouds persona being in Tifas subconscious just makes so much sense thematically wise though. The evidence is pretty good too in the main menu for gongaga when you are playing as tifa it shows cloud in the menu but you can't select him either bug or intentional but Zack is invisible at the end in the menu so seems to be intentional. Then theres the fact that Tifa in the lifestream sees stuff from Clouds POV her memories but its like Cloud is guiding her. Then theres the Teenage Cloud guiding her in the trial which for every other character was just stuff from memories but no one else had a guide. Yet Cloud here is pointing where to go and isn't really here to be part of the trauma it quite literally mirrors the actual lifestream with teenage Cloud showing her stuff.

 

[CldS7]

I just want to see a lot of real Cloud and Tifa interactions in the next game

you see how he was trying to come out and the soft way he spoke in the Gongaga scene. I would love if they change his voice to be softer like Red's voice changes

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Ehh... So isn't that world....

Spoiler: Spoiler

not gonna last for much longer? Because each world is collapsing upon itself? Right? That's the impression I got. I'm not sure it's gonna play much of a role in PT3. Or if it will even remain standing to the end. I do think it's part of Sephiroth's plan and Lifestream Black related but I don't think too much AU is going down besides establishing Lifestream shenanigans and showing Sephy's plan.

 

[Sacky]

Ehh... So isn't that world....

Spoiler: Spoiler

not gonna last for much longer? Because each world is collapsing upon itself? Right? That's the impression I got. I'm not sure it's gonna play much of a role in PT3. Or if it will even remain standing to the end.

i don't know? they mention that a lot but never really pay it off. The metoer place Zack was in looked like a different place? maybe now that Aerith is dead in the living world she can help that one. Otherwise, i don't know why they spent so much time on that world, building it up and hiding the fates of Tifa and Barett didn't even show Jessie and Wedge. The flowers start blooming again where Zack is so if hes in that same lifestream world or whatever its very interesting

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

i don't know? they mention that a lot but never really pay it off. The metoer place Zack was in looked like a different place? maybe now that Aerith is dead in the living world she can help that one. Otherwise, i don't know why they spent so much time on that world, building it up and hiding the fates of Tifa and Barett didn't even show Jessie and Wedge. The flowers start blooming again where Zack is so if hes in that same lifestream world or whatever its very interesting

Yeah I think

This is just a set up for Lifestream Black and White and to explain why Zack is there in AC. I don't think they will fully flesh it out because it's a plot device.

Spoiler: Spoiler

But it seems to be that Sephiroth is merging all these worlds for some reason for his master plan. But it seems to me when fate is set right that world will cease to exist

. I don't know if we're gonna see doubles of everyone, maybe but that might be too much to tie up if they're not careful. It could jump the shark pretty fast. So I prefer they not focus on that world too much. Maybe Tifa from our world connects to that one in the LS to get Cloud. Bc Cloud can experience that world tells me, sleeping Cloud is his true self.
But not sure we're actually saving that world or spending too much time on that side.

It is very interesting what they set up. I think this is a way to explain the Lifestream and how it works. Though some parts in that world and some theories are very much starting to remind me of Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Jane Fane]

So uh.... I know it seems like every square enix inch of The Dates has been analyzed and compared... how someone twirls, where someone is looking, how someone is walking. However, I haven't seen anyone mention this particular detail yet, so it shall be my contribution to the pedantry! They wouldn't bother animating these differences if they didn't mean anything, right.

The Symbolism of How CA and CT Enter and Exit the Skywheel

CA:

• Aerith approaches the gondola first (always the initiator).
• She hops on right away (seizes opportunities immediately) and reaches out to Cloud to help him step on.
• After the ride, it's the inverse: Cloud exits first and reaches out to Aerith to help her step off. I wouldn't say he was eager to leave, at least not maliciously so, but he does in fact leave first. The lingering feeling in the air is, "that was nice, now we're done."

CT:

• Tifa approaches the gondola first but pauses (more shy, sometimes initiates but often hesitates as well).
• After some back and forth, Cloud finally jumps on and pulls Tifa in at the last second (time and timing has never been on their side, neither are great at seizing opportunities, but in final, crucial moments, Cloud will always come through).
• After the ride, Tifa steps off first (grounded in reality at all times) and Cloud follows. The tension in the air is palpable. Nothing feels finished, it only feels like they still have so much to say and do.

 

[eleamaya]

I don't know man, I just wanted to experience Cloud and Tifas story again

As Zack & Aerith fan and Zerith shipper, I love that picture lmao

 

[Maidenofwar]

The way Cloud and Aerith entered and exited the ride was lovely and fulfilling, and something I personally enjoyed, it was very sweet. Wall Market warriors you and me was cute.

 

[eleamaya]

View attachment 15146View attachment 15147

Top pic - You can check the stalls as Zack in Chapter 8 apparently
Bottom pic - S5 dream date later on

Now it could just be nothing but a bit weird that Zack related items just suddenly appear in Aerith's dream date isn't it?

There's also no Stamp chipbag on the table of Terrier (Zack's) world... if this means something,
or maybe just the devs want the player to notice it's different world.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I think the very fact that this thread has become an echo chamber is because:

1: The LTD is dead. The LTD is double dead after Rebirth.

2. Everyone is slowly coming to a realization that the LTD is dead.

3. The only people who refuse to acknowledge that the LTD is dead are the extreme C/A

4. The LTD is dead since OG, since the LS scene where C/T (confirm their mutual feelings) and especially since the HW scene.

5.The LTD is dead. C/A never confirms their mutual feelings.

6.The LTD is dead.

I’d definitely be interested to pick the brains of some of the more…outspoken shippers from Twitter, but alas, they avoid this place like the plague

 

[Maidenofwar]

One thing I liked in this game is how Elmyra finally warmed up to Zack some, she even tells him to hurry back for dinner. It would be sad to lose this development if this world is only fakes.

 

[Ryushikaze]

One thing I liked in this game is how Elmyra finally warmed up to Zack some, she even tells him to hurry back for dinner. It would be sad to lose this development if this world is only fakes.

It makes no narrative sense for Terri-verse to be just fakes, especially given that we know of two people who ought to be dead who are there, and there are apparently two Clouds in that universe, since there was one who went through the events of Remake as well as the one Zack dragged in. Marlene also remembers the events of Remake, so we can probably assume that this timeline went pretty much identical to the one we're in right up until the whisper fight or thereabouts.
This is also not the first Final Fantasy to deal with numerous slightly branching timelines (FF12-2 and Crystal Chronicles DS did so as well), and Gilgamesh gives us ample reason to think we're dealing with the existing multiverse.

It takes less effort to assume that we're dealing with genuine articles genuinely in their own worlds of displaced from them than various simulactra of people both living and dead.

 

[Stiggie]

The way Cloud and Aerith entered and exited the ride was lovely and fulfilling, and something I personally enjoyed, it was very sweet. Wall Market warriors you and me was cute.

I don't like it, and this is essentially why: Aerith is looking for the real Cloud, but we know what the real Cloud would be like, it's essentially how he ends the date with Tifa, shy and slightly embarrassed. Which means that the way he ends the date with Aerith is essentially him putting on a act, which makes it less endearing to me.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I don't like it, and this is essentially why: Aerith is looking for the real Cloud, but we know what the real Cloud would be like, it's essentially how he ends the date with Tifa, shy and slightly embarrassed. Which means that the way he ends the date with Aerith is essentially him putting on a act, which makes it less endearing to me.

Are you referring to the line " I'm looking for you.. trying hard to see you?" Even back in OG I know this not in reference to Real Cloud. But the symbolism of it yes ( he's not himself). Aerith cannot see that there is "REAL CLOUD" inside she don't know him.

In Aerith's word she meant again herself- she wants to see Cloud as himself and not as shadow of Zack. "the way you walk the way you carried yourself" she wants to focus on person in front of her but can't help but remember Zack eitherway.

of course diehard C/A wont notice

Cloud says " But I'm right here.." he said it with confidence ( again sounds like Zack)
'Yeah but.."

Remembering 'him' no one knows he's gone aside from Aerith ( and Cloud but he deleted that memory ) of course and unknown sadness as come to her hence why he clings to Cloud and says "Just until the rides over" the hand-holding is a genuine gesture from Cloud to Aerith as "he cares" but of course shippers can't help themselves.

what I read on Aerith is there is always an effort to move forward but she will still always step back.

 

[Stiggie]

Are you referring to the line " I'm looking for you.. trying hard to see you?" Even back in OG I know this not in reference to Real Cloud. But the symbolism of it yes ( he's not himself). Aerith cannot see that there is "REAL CLOUD" inside she don't know him.

In Aerith's word she meant again herself- she wants to see Cloud as himself and not as shadow of Zack. "the way you walk the way you carried yourself" she wants to focus on person in front of her but can't help but remember Zack eitherway.

of course diehard C/A wont notice

Cloud says " But I'm right here.." he said it with confidence ( again sounds like Zack)
'Yeah but.."

what I read on Aerith is there is always an effort to move forward but she will still always step back.

I think it's both, yes she trying to see Cloud for Cloud, but she's also aware that there is something weird about him and he's not acting like himself.
She doesn't know the truth of it, sure, but I do think she understands that he's not truly himself. Hell, she'd probably have heard so from Tifa, who was told so by Cloud in gongaga.
Aerith also reiterates it in the dream date if I remember correctly when she talks about the "the real Cloud, the one I've been trying to find". Even if finding the real Cloud is just a reference to figuring out what he's really like, rather than seeing him for Zack, then it still highlights that that's not what she got. She still got an act, which is tragic, but also not as romantic.

 

[Eerie]

One reason why i don't like the other timeline theories are "Aerith will save him this time.. its not TIFA anymore.."

That's because of Aerith's line that's been mistranslated when she gives him Holy at the church: normally she just says that this materia will save the world.

 

[c.lupara]

I hope the devs don't make the mistake of extending the LS scene to Aerith too;
that is, this must remain Cloud and Tifa's MOMENT and absolutely must not be changed in terms of participating characters.
LTD at this moment is 90% dead and rightly so also for the story which would otherwise be fallacious.