SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

Oh yeah, I saw that post as well, including the Clerith talking about how they skip Tifa scenes.



Question, but does anyone know if there is a lets play with Japanese subtitles out there? I sometimes want to go to the original japanese to check what is being said but something it's hard when it's just audio with english subtitles. This time I was looking for what Zack and Marlene say to each other in response to Marlene says Aerith likes Cloud. It sounds like "so it's an emergency", "yes, it's an emergency" but I can't check without subtitles and I don't feel like playing through everything whenever I want to check a sentence.

You can watch Cloud's mocap actor play, I believe he plays it 100% in JP.

Also, just so you know, most Aerith dialogue isn't skippable. If you see someone claim that someone else skipped it, they're lying. The only one you can skip is the Under Junon one where it's Tifa's that's not skippable.

 

[GamerSkull]

I thought this was funny. The comments are even more hilarious. Sometimes I want to engage, but I would probably just be banned

It’s okay. Let them enjoy it. They’ve only got a few years left.

The writing is on the wall. They want Part 3 to end without “unresolved feelings” which means they are gonna make it so that Zerith gets closure as well even if they aren’t necessarily gonna be alive. And they aren’t gonna make Tifa be alone with unrequited feelings while douchebag Cloud strings her along.

 

[Maidenofwar]

You can skip all the conversations on the beach. I did so on my initial run. You can skip either Aerith or Tifa in Nibelheim. Also you have to talk with them again to get their follow up scenes.

 

[Eerie]

You can skip all the conversations on the beach. I did so on my initial run. You can skip either Aerith or Tifa in Nibelheim. Also you have to talk with them again to get their follow up scenes.

Mmh I thoguht most of the time you have that "speak with Aerith" and the game doesn't let you progress unless you do. I skipped Barret in Gongaga because I couldn't find him but that's the only one I skipped.

 

[Yoru]

I thought this was funny. The comments are even more hilarious. Sometimes I want to engage, but I would probably just be banned

Wow. I would love to be rejected like that.

Bruh. I can't even. How can they want to be taken seriously with things like this ?

 

[Eerie]

In both versions he reaffirms that "not one bit" "hold on tight" etc. that tells her that no she isn't getting ahead of herself. One version is just more intimate than the other.

 

[Sacky]

In both versions he reaffirms that "not one bit" "hold on tight" etc. that tells her that no she isn't getting ahead of herself. One version is just more intimate than the other.

reminds me of another high affection low affection event XD

 

[GamerSkull]

I’m gonna preface this by saying this might sound toxic but that is not my intent so I’m gonna apologize in advance.

Ultimately, I think most CAs are subconsciously realizing a loss is imminent. They are coping and so they have to gaslight not only others but themselves as well. They are as in denial about CA as Cloud is about Aerith being alive and the third part is gonna be hard for them to swallow.

I say, let them cope for now. They only have two or three years left before that have to accept it.

 

[nars305]

View attachment 16015

Wow. I would love to be rejected like that.

Bruh. I can't even. How can they want to be taken seriously with things like this ?

This is just massive cope I’m sorry.

I don’t even want to try and understand it. It’s just so obtuse.

 

[Eerie]

I found Yama's channel on YT so here it is - he also makes comments lol:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDe_7TKnZBLrTNmNr6w4Y1xYAtW1im0GO

 

[Yoru]

Ultimately, I think most CAs are subconsciously realizing a loss is imminent. They are coping and so they have to gaslight not only others but themselves as well.

Part of me feels the same way. But the other part is really doubtful.

They really think it's real and just watch what happens on screen. They don't ask themselves any more questions. This dream date is a perfect example. This scene is supposed to make you doubt what's going on, that something is strange. But now they've seen Aerith and Cloud together and simply put their brains on the floor. They can no longer see any of the subtlety the game is desperately trying to show us. The rest of this scene is literally an NPC telling you "nah man you don't vibe like a couple at all."

That's why I don't argue with this part of the fandom anymore. It's pointless. They make their own story. Good for them.

I'm just happy that the developers are staying true to themselves and I'm just enjoying the ride. That's what matters most to me. That the story and essence of FF7 is respected on my screen. I don't really care what others make of it.

 

[frosty]

Like, Aerith's not a bad person for wanting to explore her feelings for Cloud--it's just inevitable that given that there are two women interested in one guy that someone's feelings will be hurt. That's just how it is. Does it mean she's putting a slightly higher premium on resolving her own romantic feelings compared to strictly making sure Tifa's feelings aren't hurt? Sure, but that's...ok?

NGL, Aerith's character in Rebirth is legitimately the reason why I've been putting off playing the game - I've spoiled myself on most plot points but I just find the whole writing of two women pursuing the same man but ~ we're are just soooo besties <3 <3 <3 ~ extremely unbelievable, and it's SE's way of trying to depict their "love triangle" but not wanting to actually to show that a "love triangle" creates repercussions and unpleasant feelings for all parties involved. And I cannot say child-like mannerisms / making puffy cheeks when mad / yanking a man's hand up and down while stomping and demanding a gift is in any way endearing to me.

I always thought the Witcher 3 was a more realistic depiction of how two friends would act if they had romantic history with the same man. Uncomfortable, tense, forces the player to make real, disappointing choices towards either of the women so you really feel the repercussion of your actions. Even in Uncharted 2 where Chloe meets Elena and Nathan is caught in the middle - the tension from 3 sets of pixels is so awkward and unpleasant.

TBH, though I know the plot essentially has Cloud end up with Tifa, and his true self has always cared for her, I really can't say I enjoy the Cloud who is awkward-and-makes-sad-uncomfortable-faces-but- yet-imposes-little-to-no-physical-or-verbal-boundaries-with-Aerith...it just really isn't the kind of male protagonist I...respect? See Arthur Morgan / Mary Linton, Kratos/ Faye, Nathan/Elena, Geralt/Yenn

The teenage-shonen-otome tropes with Remake/Rebirth can get a bit much sometimes.

 

[overheat28]

Ehh I've always found the CA insistence that Zack can be bumped off by Marlene quite funny, sounds like a lot of copium. I think it just speaks to how dearly they wish CC and the Compilation were never a thing and he was still a "minor" plot device.

Unfortunately for hardcore CAs, Zack is not trivial enough to be turned into a CA toady by a 4 year old child, especially when he doesn't even have the context on how Cloud and Aerith met.

If CA is going to be a thing, Aerith is going to have to break the good boy's heart in person. Zack has earned that much, at least. Does anyone seriously think this will happen? After she learns the truth of all that happened with Zack? They want to fire the gun from Marlene's shoulder and hope Zack accepts because they know what would happen to fan perception of Aerith if she rejects him in person.

It's a fundamental misreading on the game due to being blinded, imo. They didn't bring him back and give him the setup they did to have him be rejected in the end. He might have had very limited screentime but they made it count. I'm seeing a lot of love for ol' Zack and his single minded insanity (he is truly insane, imo) to get back to Aerith at any cost. The contrast of Zack willing to go to any length vs Cloud's treatment of her through the game is especially stark, imo. Cherry on top, most of the Zack stuff happens during the dream date.

The game wants you to root for Zack and no less a character than Elmyra has gotten attached to him. Not to mention the sheer level of corny involved in Zack and Aerith scenes (ribbon on his hand, gazing at the sky at the same time, touching across the lifestream, taking out a helicopter to retrieve her, flowers healing him reminiscent of the CC DMW limit break, mimicking speech patterns). I would not bet against that level of cheese, personally.

At some point you just have to understand what the game is trying to beat you over the head with and it ain't CA.

 

[Stiggie]

You can watch Cloud's mocap actor play, I believe he plays it 100% in JP.

Also, just so you know, most Aerith dialogue isn't skippable. If you see someone claim that someone else skipped it, they're lying. The only one you can skip is the Under Junon one where it's Tifa's that's not skippable.

I know she's not skippable in Kalm, although the rest are I think. But I did skip Aerith on the beach and I think she's skippable a few other times as well.

Part of me feels the same way. But the other part is really doubtful.

They really think it's real and just watch what happens on screen. They don't ask themselves any more questions. This dream date is a perfect example. This scene is supposed to make you doubt what's going on, that something is strange. But now they've seen Aerith and Cloud together and simply put their brains on the floor. They can no longer see any of the subtlety the game is desperately trying to show us. The rest of this scene is literally an NPC telling you "nah man you don't vibe like a couple at all."

That's why I don't argue with this part of the fandom anymore. It's pointless. They make their own story. Good for them.

I'm just happy that the developers are staying true to themselves and I'm just enjoying the ride. That's what matters most to me. That the story and essence of FF7 is respected on my screen. I don't really care what others make of it.

This is one of the things that bothers me about Cleriths. If they had any shred of integrity or intellectual honesty we could actually have a discussion about this.

You see, I could totally understand if someone were to argue that the strangeness in the scene is the result of Aeriths knowledge about her imminent death, and that that's why they remark that they look like they're at a funeral.

In that case I could retort that while that might be a good reason for why this date might be uncomfortable in real life, that in this case the designers specifically chose to make the scene uncomfortable, and that regardless of whether or not their would be valid reasons for it to be awkward it would still be possible not to write it as such, and not doing so would be a very odd decision if this scene were to be intended to be a culmination of a romantic subplot. The "funeral" I might be able to grant, but we don't the vendors every allow them the items they want? Why not make it more fulfilling in general? Why use vague language like "there's liking and then there's liking" if the goal of the scene is to be a pay-off for romance? Why make the decision to have the date resemble earlier dates with Zack? Why make the decision to insert Zack coded imagery? Why intersperse these scenes with scenes of Zack trying to get back to her?

It makes no sense, but I never even get that far because they straight up refuse to even admit that there is anything strange about the date.

But I shouldn't be surprised, these are the same people who look at Clouds delusional smiling "no one is dead" face and think "so romantic, he only looks at Aerith that way".

 

[Yoru]

NGL, Aerith's character in Rebirth is legitimately the reason why I've been putting off playing the game - I've spoiled myself on most plot points but I just find the whole writing of two women pursuing the same man but ~ we're are just soooo besties <3 <3 <3 ~ extremely unbelievable, and it's SE's way of trying to depict their "love triangle" but not wanting to actually to show that a "love triangle" creates repercussions and unpleasant feelings for all parties involved. And I cannot say child-like mannerisms / making puffy cheeks when mad / yanking a man's hand up and down while stomping and demanding a gift is in any way endearing to me.

I always thought the Witcher 3 was a more realistic depiction of how two friends would act if they had romantic history with the same man. Uncomfortable, tense, forces the player to make real, disappointing choices towards either of the women so you really feel the repercussion of your actions. Even in Uncharted 2 where Chloe meets Elena and Nathan is caught in the middle - the tension from 3 sets of pixels is so awkward and unpleasant.

TBH, though I know the plot essentially has Cloud end up with Tifa, and his true self has always cared for her, I really can't say I enjoy the Cloud who is awkward-and-makes-sad-uncomfortable-faces-but- yet-imposes-little-to-no-physical-or-verbal-boundaries-with-Aerith...it just really isn't the kind of male protagonist I...respect? See Arthur Morgan / Mary Linton, Kratos/ Faye, Nathan/Elena, Geralt/Yenn

The teenage-shonen-otome tropes with Remake/Rebirth can get a bit much sometimes.

I think I see where you're coming from, and I'd love to read what others think, but honestly, after the "Kalm drama", I thought Cloud was pretty clear and direct about Aerith. I get the impression that he's hell-bent on setting up barriers and imposing limits during the game when Aerith starts to go too far. And being frank she's more teasy than flirty. That's the feeling I got playing the game.

It's really that dream date that comes a bit out of nowhere with a really strange, very innocent and childlike Cloud (Real Cloud coming out?) that took me out of the game a bit at the time, because he doesn't have that attitude at all in the rest of Rebirth. Same for Aerith. It's honestly the moment where she's really taking this date thing as a real lover date and I don't like that, because "this Aerith" should know about Zack. So it doesn't make any sense kinda (yeah I really dislike this date, except the goodbye part that I love and find beautiful)

As someone pointed out earlier, Aerith's memory loss is a bit of a step backwards in terms of the character's treatment. I think the idea was to "give her a chance" this time compared to Remake, where she was more an ally of Cloti than anything else. But then again, Cloud's side seems pretty honest to me, so I guess I don't totally agree with your view of things.

 

[GamerSkull]

Ehh I've always found the CA insistence that Zack can be bumped off by Marlene quite funny, sounds like a lot of copium. I think it just speaks to how dearly they wish CC and the Compilation were never a thing and he was still a "minor" plot device.

Unfortunately for hardcore CAs, Zack is not trivial enough to be turned into a CA toady by a 4 year old child, especially when he doesn't even have the context on how Cloud and Aerith met.

If CA is going to be a thing, Aerith is going to have to break the good boy's heart in person. Zack has earned that much, at least. Does anyone seriously think this will happen? After she learns the truth of all that happened with Zack? They want to fire the gun from Marlene's shoulder and hope Zack accepts because they know what would happen to fan perception of Aerith if she rejects him in person.

It's a fundamental misreading on the game due to being blinded, imo. They didn't bring him back and give him the setup they did to have him be rejected in the end. He might have had very limited screentime but they made it count. I'm seeing a lot of love for ol' Zack and his single minded insanity (he is truly insane, imo) to get back to Aerith at any cost. The contrast of Zack willing to go to any length vs Cloud's treatment of her through the game is especially stark, imo. Cherry on top, most of the Zack stuff happens during the dream date.

The game wants you to root for Zack and no less a character than Elmyra has gotten attached to him. Not to mention the sheer level of corny involved in Zack and Aerith scenes (ribbon on his hand, gazing at the sky at the same time, touching across the lifestream, taking out a helicopter to retrieve her, flowers healing him reminiscent of the CC DMW limit break, mimicking speech patterns). I would not bet against that level of cheese, personally.

At some point you just have to understand what the game is trying to beat you over the head with and it ain't CA.

Crisis Core is relevant though. There’s a reason they rereleased it right before this game lmao

It’s because it’s relevant. So fans claiming it doesn’t matter or that this game is distancing itself from it is just… wrong. As well as numerous dev interviews stating they want to bring Compilation stuff into Remake trilogy to make it ultimately more cohesive.

 

[LNK]

But I shouldn't be surprised, these are the same people who look at Clouds delusional smiling "no one is dead" face and think "so romantic, he only looks at Aerith that way".

Lol that's hilarious

 

[LNK]

Crisis Core is relevant though. There’s a reason they rereleased it right before this game lmao

It’s because it’s relevant. So fans claiming it doesn’t matter or that this game is distancing itself from it is just… wrong. As well as numerous dev interviews stating they want to bring Compilation stuff into Remake trilogy to make it ultimately more cohesive.

It's so weird. In order for Aerith to even have a chance to be canon, no ff7 material can exist, except the original game. Even then, it shouldn't even have gone on as long as it did. Cloud never acted like he had feelings for Aerith after her death

 

[nars305]

NGL, Aerith's character in Rebirth is legitimately the reason why I've been putting off playing the game - I've spoiled myself on most plot points but I just find the whole writing of two women pursuing the same man but ~ we're are just soooo besties <3 <3 <3 ~ extremely unbelievable, and it's SE's way of trying to depict their "love triangle" but not wanting to actually to show that a "love triangle" creates repercussions and unpleasant feelings for all parties involved. And I cannot say child-like mannerisms / making puffy cheeks when mad / yanking a man's hand up and down while stomping and demanding a gift is in any way endearing to me.

I always thought the Witcher 3 was a more realistic depiction of how two friends would act if they had romantic history with the same man. Uncomfortable, tense, forces the player to make real, disappointing choices towards either of the women so you really feel the repercussion of your actions. Even in Uncharted 2 where Chloe meets Elena and Nathan is caught in the middle - the tension from 3 sets of pixels is so awkward and unpleasant.

TBH, though I know the plot essentially has Cloud end up with Tifa, and his true self has always cared for her, I really can't say I enjoy the Cloud who is awkward-and-makes-sad-uncomfortable-faces-but- yet-imposes-little-to-no-physical-or-verbal-boundaries-with-Aerith...it just really isn't the kind of male protagonist I...respect? See Arthur Morgan / Mary Linton, Kratos/ Faye, Nathan/Elena, Geralt/Yenn

The teenage-shonen-otome tropes with Remake/Rebirth can get a bit much sometimes.

The Witcher does do it perfectly. It’s an actual love triangle. In FF7 it’s more of a line with Cloud in the middle. Aerith and Tifa never acknowledge it. If we do have some “acknowledgment” it’s Aerith saying things that make me feel like she knows they have SOMETHING there.

If they wanted to truly make me believe it is a love triangle, then their chance was during Rebirth. They didn’t, even going so far as to distinctively posture Tifa in a more romantic position than the others.

I have read bubble gum romance manga to heart shattering romance manga like NANA for half my life. I don’t see SE making Cloud flip and love Aerith because it is just not in the narrative. If they do then that is very questionable writing.

 

[Yoru]

It's so weird. In order for Aerith to even have a chance to be canon, no ff7 material can exist, except the original game. Even then, it shouldn't even have gone on as long as it did. Cloud never acted like he had feelings for Aerith after her death

Well. OG is its own beast.

You can love her before she dies and Cloud think about her at the end. So I can accept people want to see some love here.
Imo it's not paying attention to the fact Cloud wasn't himself when he was in love but whatever, I'm ok to accept Clerith vision. I think it would be hypocritical not to give them the benefit of the doubt in OG.

But with the compilation stuff and Remake project (which is the ultimate version of the game for the creators. Their global vision of FF7) you can't claim Clerith is a real thing. It's just not what the game is telling us.

 

[nars305]

But with the compilation stuff and Remake project (which is the ultimate version of the game for the creators. Their global vision of FF7) you can't claim Clerith is a real thing. It's just not what the game is telling us.

That’s the main thing to me. People who ship Aerith and Cloud seem to isolate certain moments and go from there, ignoring the entire picture.

The story is constantly intertwining Cloud and Tifa, the novels the same. That’s why I’m saying if Cloud was also in love with Aerith all the writing is questionable.

I’m hoping, more so betting, that the last part will tie it all together and show Cloud and Tifa exactly as they have been depicted.

When I played Remake I didn’t care at all about the relationships. I was like ok cute, little romance, anyway…but then Rebirth happened. Now I can look back on Remake and appreciate their moments. I’m sure I’ll enjoy it much more if I replayed it. So I’m really betting on the final part to make the picture crystal clear.

 

[overheat28]

Crisis Core is relevant though. There’s a reason they rereleased it right before this game lmao

It’s because it’s relevant. So fans claiming it doesn’t matter or that this game is distancing itself from it is just… wrong. As well as numerous dev interviews stating they want to bring Compilation stuff into Remake trilogy to make it ultimately more cohesive.

Yes, I cannot think of a worse move than re-releasing Crisis Core and calling it "Reunion" if the intent was to show she moved on from Zack and CA is the direction in Rebirth. They clearly wanted people to familiarize themselves with Zack, his story, and what makes him tick, i.e. flower girl.

 

[abzy1200]

NGL, Aerith's character in Rebirth is legitimately the reason why I've been putting off playing the game - I've spoiled myself on most plot points but I just find the whole writing of two women pursuing the same man but ~ we're are just soooo besties <3 <3 <3 ~ extremely unbelievable, and it's SE's way of trying to depict their "love triangle" but not wanting to actually to show that a "love triangle" creates repercussions and unpleasant feelings for all parties involved. And I cannot say child-like mannerisms / making puffy cheeks when mad / yanking a man's hand up and down while stomping and demanding a gift is in any way endearing to me.

I really hope the LTD ends with part 3, the sooner the better. The LTD unnecessarily pits two great women against each other and it does neither of them any favours.

At some point you just have to understand what the game is trying to beat you over the head with and it ain't CA.

If I was on a date with someone, and they topped it off with "I like you, but there's liking, and then there's liking" and they then proceeded to hug me, I would cry myself to sleep that night thinking about how I was friendzoned, I certainly wouldn't blurt out "You're acting weird."

Like, seriously, how is that any kind of romantic confession?

That’s the main thing to me. People who ship Aerith and Cloud seem to isolate certain moments and go from there, ignoring the entire picture.

Look no further than Tifa's "Do you love me?"

The amount of times I've seen this whipped out in arguments is unbelievable. You can guess what they do next, it rhymes with "reflect".......

 

[nars305]

Look no further than Tifa's "Do you love me?"

The amount of times I've seen this whipped out in arguments is unbelievable. You can guess what they do next, it rhymes with "reflect".......

Which is such a strange thing to use…for what exactly? They want to prove that Cloud doesn’t love Tifa or that they don’t work out?

It’s like…this is in the novel BEFORE the events of AC, where we see Cloud overcome his problems…and who pushes him to face his problems? Oh right, it’s Tifa. Pretty sure we see them remain together after that…on what we can believe are better terms since Cloud has forgiven himself.

I just can’t really understand that like of thinking.

 

[Eerie]

I really hope the LTD ends with part 3, the sooner the better. The LTD unnecessarily pits two great women against each other and it does neither of them any favours.

You're misunderstanding. The LTD will never end because the most extreme CAs will never give up. So they'll continue to shout in the dark after p3.

Which is such a strange thing to use…for what exactly? They want to prove that Cloud doesn’t love Tifa or that they don’t work out?

No, you got that wrong; they use it to show that Tifa has an unrequited love for Cloud. They read that scene and don't see the most obvious evidence: they're in the same bedroom, most probably in the same bed, Tifa using a line that a lot of women use when things suddenly feel unsure with their partner. It's a sentence that proves they are together but they think it shows they aren't together and Cloud doesn't love her.