SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

It's quite funny how they take Aerith's words as gospel but seem to always ignore repeated statements of Cloud wanting to be special to Tifa.

Then again, these people take Cait Sith's fortunes as gospel too.

And he's explicitly called out for his unreliable fortunes in several Ultimanias. Even setting that aside, his fortunes are so vague they're basically unfalsifiable. That's a bad thing, for the record.

 

[Eerie]

Aerith’s resolution in Remake is also a meta commentary to the player: even if you, the player think that Cloud fell for Aerith, it’s not true.

 

[Stiggie]

"Depending on the player, it’s natural for them to say, “I like Tifa. No, I prefer Aeris,” so I wanted to shape things in reflection of that, or in other words, create a system that reacts to the players’ feelings. For example, if the game had a completely straightforward path, I might feel stuck with Tifa because of story-related reasons, even though Aeris is the one I like, it gets to feel something like that, so I wanted to get rid of that approach. It’s not that there are branching paths, but I absolutely wanted to incorporate a mechanic that reflects the player’s feelings."

- Nomura, Game Walker magazine


"AC is piece of work made by Japanese people. In Hollywood movies, I think there is a tendency where the meaning of all the scenes have to be expressed clearly but, this isn’t something like that. With our work, the viewer is free to decide how they interpret or enjoy it. The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times.

But, even if someone who have watched it interprets it differently then that is just another answer. I guess “comparing answers” with friends is one of the ways you can enjoy the movie. I think AC is a movie that makes those who have watched it, want to talk about it with others."

- Nomura


“Like Aerith, [Tifa] has a maternal side to her, but in a different sense. Not only was she looking after Marlene and Denzel, but she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud, who is a “big kid” himself in some respects.”

- Nomura, Advent Children Reunion Files

"The relationships between Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa were definitely ambiguous, even back in the original, so I wanted to make sure I kept those relationships – pushing the limits of what we can depict, while still looking like two people genuinely caring for each other and being natural."

- FF7 Remake Co-director Motomu Toriyama, Inverse.com Interview


“Having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.”

- Yoshinori Kitase, 10th Anniversary Ultimania, page 11

"We never talk about how characters relate with each other outside of what is depicted in the game. Our only focus has been how best to depict the characters in an appealing way as part of the remake.

However, I also love to see the exciting discussions among the fans within the community and it’s something we’ve seen since the original game released!"

- Kitase, Push.com interview (May 24, 2020)


“First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don’t really intend to go into my views on love or marriage or family. After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith…”

- Nojima, Advent Children interview

The devs have stated time after time that there is no canon romance. It is up to player to decide. SE is never going to make one ship canon.

None of this implies a lack of canon though. All of it has the same general feeling, which I have equated to controlling the weapons. You can steer left or right a bit but ultimately there are no other destinations.

"Depending on the player, it’s natural for them to say, “I like Tifa. No, I prefer Aeris,” so I wanted to shape things in reflection of that, or in other words, create a system that reacts to the players’ feelings. For example, if the game had a completely straightforward path, I might feel stuck with Tifa because of story-related reasons, even though Aeris is the one I like, it gets to feel something like that, so I wanted to get rid of that approach. It’s not that there are branching paths, but I absolutely wanted to incorporate a mechanic that reflects the player’s feelings."

- Nomura, Game Walker magazine

Straight up admits that there are no branching paths and that a straightforward path ends with Tifa. Aka, there is some leeway given so you can, for instance, go on a date with Aerith. But it ends with Tifa.

"AC is piece of work made by Japanese people. In Hollywood movies, I think there is a tendency where the meaning of all the scenes have to be expressed clearly but, this isn’t something like that. With our work, the viewer is free to decide how they interpret or enjoy it. The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times.

But, even if someone who have watched it interprets it differently then that is just another answer. I guess “comparing answers” with friends is one of the ways you can enjoy the movie. I think AC is a movie that makes those who have watched it, want to talk about it with others."

- Nomura

"the staff has their own interpretations to all the scenes" Q.E.D. The existence of interpretations does not invalidate canonicity.

“Like Aerith, [Tifa] has a maternal side to her, but in a different sense. Not only was she looking after Marlene and Denzel, but she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud, who is a “big kid” himself in some respects.”

- Nomura, Advent Children Reunion Files

I fail to see the relevance.

"The relationships between Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa were definitely ambiguous, even back in the original, so I wanted to make sure I kept those relationships – pushing the limits of what we can depict, while still looking like two people genuinely caring for each other and being natural."

- FF7 Remake Co-director Motomu Toriyama, Inverse.com Interview

Ambiguous also does not mean there is not a correct answer, they've already confirmed that certain interpretations will be lost as they're no longer able to be as ambiguous. Aka, ambiguity does not invalidate canon.

“Having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.”

- Yoshinori Kitase, 10th Anniversary Ultimania, page 11

Someone wavering (because of his false identity) during the game does not mean there is no outcome. This is a story arc, a story arc has a conclusion.

"We never talk about how characters relate with each other outside of what is depicted in the game. Our only focus has been how best to depict the characters in an appealing way as part of the remake.

However, I also love to see the exciting discussions among the fans within the community and it’s something we’ve seen since the original game released!"

- Kitase, Push.com interview (May 24, 2020)

And yet clearly they talk about how the characters relate INSIDE the game, and that requires motivations, feelings, etc. So again, not relevant.

“First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don’t really intend to go into my views on love or marriage or family. After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith…”

- Nojima, Advent Children interview

Random speculation that literally has nothing to do with what we're talking about. If anything this just confirms that Cloud is with Tifa since that's the subject "Maybe WOULD have" directly implies that this is not what happens. This quote essentially confirms that what happens....is Tifa.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Okay, many of these have already been responded to, but allow me to add my two cents if you don't mind.

Crow T. Robot: We do!

I regret nothing.

So that's the players feelings, not Cloud's. And even then he notes "Might feel stuck with Tifa because of story-related reasons" and "it's not that there are branching paths.

This This story has a beginning, middle, and end. Some of what you see in the middle may change based on your choices, the end will not.

I forget if it's this same interview or a different one where he says that care was taken to make each date and Cloud's reaction on each date genuine to his core character- IE: That's how he'd react in that situation.

I wanna say it's a different interview that was being discussed in tandem, but it was always back there so... Could be either.

Nomura loves to put puzzles and secrets into his works for people to discuss about. It's not that there is no correct answer, he just wants to wait awhile and see what people theorize about. You can sort of see this

Nomura thinks it's best when you figure shit out on your own. If hordes of people get it wrong, that's not his problem.

Reunion files also describes her as someone's lover, a special woman to Cloud, states that they share a future together, and that Cloud and Tifa belong together. I might be forgetting a couple other statements in there. And yeah, she has a maternal bond towards Cloud, but Cloud called Aerith his mom, and she and Zack made jokes about it.

Are people really arguing that one of Tifa's many qualities being "maternal" in some way hurts Cloti? After Cloud literally called Aerith mom? That's good old fashioned Both Sides-ism.

This is an accurate statement of what Cloud is portrayed like during the first disc, sure, but that's not his eternal state. Things change in the lifestream sequence when his true self is restored.

It's funny how hard it is for people to let go of SOLDIER!Cloud and the illusion of choice he provides.

Except we literally have written examples from both now and before this quote depicting how they do interact? Not gonna lie, this feels like Kitase avoiding answering the question ahead of time, which is not unheard of. More on that below.

Agreed, though this is one of those times I wish he'd just say "I'm not answering that at this time, move on."

But yes, none of that says "there is no canon romance." I read most of it as "You can figure it out" and "things aren't perfect, but that's how relationships are. Especially that last one from Nojima, who recently, in very plain wording wrote that Cloud explicitly wanted to become someone special to Tifa for a novella released just before Rebirth.

How long did it take for certain folks to seize on "wanted" being past tense and assume that it doesn't apply to the present, which is optional except it's really Aerith? Was it measured in nanoseconds?

As reasonable a folk method as any.

Well folk methods can't all be wrong, sign me up.

I approve this decision. No. Scratch that, I apporve it.

Sadly I'm already buried in cats that I love plus my mother-in-law shaped person's cats so I should hold off on this.

That's just cruel. Now I want to see Sonic getting forced to deal with the internet bullshit side of Rockman.

Why would you wish this on Sonic, he has so much internet bullshit of his own... Oh wait you meant the in-universe .exe stuff. Yeah that could be fun and give Tails something to do. I'm down.

Anything's edible if you insane enough.

Or if you're Matter Eater Lad. Yes I am referencing that. I still regret nothing.

Here you are, then

Will definitely give this a look later.

I recommend tracking them down. Good stuff.

Under advisement.

Fire might have been warranted in that case. Burn the stupid, after all.

For real. Like the whole thing is up to forge temp amounts of fire.

They have to adopt the kittens out to the families around edge.

From what I saw in Rebirth, Fluffy was a prolific breeder. Ergo, baskets of kittens riding on Fenrir. I think I might have diabetes just picturing it.

Yeah, my full death voice takes it toll too.

My own is substantially easier, as it lacks the rasp and volume. I JUST ENDEAVOR TO ACTUALLY SPEAK IN BOLDED ALL-CAPS. Also sees a fair but of use since it's easier for Clicky to understand (she has pretty severe hearing loss especially for higher pitched sounds so the deeper I can go the better).

I have a UPC on every desktop in the house. Even then I had to turn them on their side because the one that likes to sleep on my desk also managed to find the power button on one while climbing up the server rack.

That's adorably inconvenient.

I mean, annoyance factors into the "easiness" score.

I cannot argue with this.

No it does not.

If only they knew this.

Still find it hilarious that they started dating like right after Gundam SEED and when they started recording Crisis Core.

The timing is worthy of a chuckle.

Certainly they seemed to be playing and watching different games and movies than the rest of us.

Well heretic or infidel, it amounts to the same. You're both correct and know how to debate and they hate you for it Wear it with pride.

I was not expecting to see that argument in 2024, no.

Ok so it is 2024, good. Had me worried, some of the last 14 years did feel more like a a nightmare than reality. But, I got three good reasons to never take them back.

And again, this isn't to be mean, canon is just one of those words with a particular meaning that for clear communication purposes we have to be precise about.

To be fair, isn't that all words? When using a word with a looser or more varied meaning isn't it just as or more important to be precise about how it's being used?

And I do both know what you mean and agree, I'm just saying.

All that's missing is the pitter patter of biological offspring at 7th heaven, just in case them adopting a kid together isn't enough.

For some, a bio-baby isn't enough. Nothing ever will be. For those who follow the narrative, Denzel wasn't even necessary, he's a cherry on top.

It is legit strange to me that people see FF7, a game with a singular ending and a singular course of narrative as having less of a canon ending for its hero than the game in the series where you can choose to let the player remain dead or not.

That is funny. Hilarious, actually.

We all know the true LTD song is Time Warp. Not that I'd begrudge Curry singing in general, mind.

Tempted to write a parody version of Professional Pirate for the LTD.

"Cause when you're a dishonest CAltist... It hurts to tell the truth!"

It has literally never existed. There was a mention of taking care of orphans, people thought this meant she ran an orphanage.
Some people thought Cloud was running a rival Orphanage. Seven guesses who thought that and the first six don't count.

Now, putting aside how ridiculous this claim is for a moment... how do you even run an orphanage that is a rival to another orphanage? Do you compete on number of orphans in your care? Number successfully adopted out? Do we throw them into Battle Square over at the Gold Saucer?

If someone things either Cloud or Tifa run an orphanage, you can dismiss them as knowing nothing at all about what they're talking about.

Both can and should.

Yeah, and the people who spread that idea are literally the people most invested in avoiding accurate translations.

The only accurate translations are done in a WacDonald's, everyone knows that

TLS is where 'Cloti' gather because TLS is where people who want accurate translations and an understanding of the narrative hang out. That tends to be people who see C/T as endgame regardless of shipping.

Pretty much this. Even back in the bad old days this was true outside of bad faith actors like BlankBeat and Anastar who posted exclusively to pick fights in the name of Pink Hell.

Yeah, 90% of the time they steal translations from TLS and try and spin doctor them. The other 10% are blatantly wrong or made up.

Are you serious? I remember, if only vaguely, some accusations of that kind of shenanigans, but never heard if anyone got to the bottom of it. That's low, if true. And being as I'm hearing it from our Admiral, I have to assume that at minimum it's the most obvious conclusion based on available evidence.

Nthing this. Plus the "someone's lover" the "mother of the family they were forming in edge" "future together" etc. quotes. Actually, it might be time to rebuild the short simple list again. Maybe order it chronologically in universe or something.

Chronologically in-universe sounds best to me. By import or impact would be too subjective, and in-universe chronology should mix up old and new out of universe a bit. Also you definitely should get the SSL up again ASAP FGJ, and quoting from it should be SOP until all opposition is FUBAR

Even if he did, it wouldn't be real, and that's according to Materia Jesus herself.

I haven't heard Material Jesus in years. Ahhh nostalgia.

 

[abzy1200]

View attachment 16091
This really ends the debate for me. This is how Tifa is described in relation to Cloud. 大切な女性 is used for romantic partners/lovers/life partners, not friends. Other notable FF couples this phrase has been used for are Tidus and Yuna + Zidane and Garnet.
Tifa is referred to as “taisetsu no josei” which means important woman. Aerith is referred to as “taisetsu no hito” same as Zack, which means important person. One is specifically romantic, the other isn’t. And one google of 大切な女性 and all you’d see is topic about romance. Since there’s only 2 (3) kind of 大切な女性 母 mother, 姉妹 (sisters rarely used for this) And the one you love, as a female. You don’t use it for friends - This is confirmed by a native Japanese person.

"But wait! Character relationship charts say Cloud and Tifa are just childhood friends!"

End my suffering

 

[SilverSisu]

And he's explicitly called out for his unreliable fortunes in several Ultimanias. Even setting that aside, his fortunes are so vague they're basically unfalsifiable. That's a bad thing, for the record.

Except in Rebirth Cait's readings were 3/3

That cat is on a roll

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Except in Rebirth Cait's readings were 3/3

That cat is on a roll

Yes, because 'Lucky food = Mushrooms" was such a specific fortune that sent the party exactly where they needed to go

Setting playful sarcasm aside, I'm not sure if that was just a straight ass-pull by Cait or a means for Reeve to send them to Gongaga, but either way it wasn't reliable divination.

 

[SilverSisu]

Yes, because 'Lucky food = Mushrooms" was such a specific fortune that sent the party exactly where they needed to go

Setting playful sarcasm aside, I'm not sure if that was just a straight ass-pull by Cait or a means for Reeve to send them to Gongaga, but either way it wasn't reliable divination.

I completely forgot that reading to be honest. I was thinking about those 3 he gave to Cloud at Gold saucer.

1. "Things are looking up so throw your caution to the wind. Put your trust in others and a last minute twist may pleasantly surprise you"

2. "Watch your belongings. Lucky color: black"

3. "Seek and you are sure to find. But alas, you shall forever lose what you cherish most."

All three readings were spot on.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Not sure if this is worth anything but yesterday I watched a clip of the church confession, as it were, with Japanese voices. I didn't catch all the words but after Cloud says "because we're nakama", Aerith responds with "That's right. Kimochi... yokatta", but I figure she said she's happy to hear Cloud's feelings. Then she goes on to say that she likes Cloud but there are different types of like. And to be honest, much like her resolution in Remake, this also felt a bit meta as if she's talking more to the audience than, well, between the characters. As if the devs are saying through her, "yes, of course she likes Cloud but there are different types of like". But that's just a feeling I got. Anyway, it's not a rejection because beforehand she's happy to hear she's Cloud's nakama -- and oh. Omg, they confirmed "their mutual feelings of friendship", lmao.

 

[Sacky]

Not sure if this is worth anything but yesterday I watched a clip of the church confession, as it were, with Japanese voices. I didn't catch all the words but after Cloud says "because we're nakama", Aerith responds with "That's right. Kimochi... yokatta", but I figure she said she's happy to hear Cloud's feelings. Then she goes on to say that she likes Cloud but there are different types of like. And to be honest, much like her resolution in Remake, this also felt a bit meta as if she's talking more to the audience than, well, between the characters. As if the devs are saying through her, "yes, of course she likes Cloud but there are different types of like". But that's just a feeling I got. Anyway, it's not a rejection because beforehand she's happy to hear she's Cloud's nakama -- and oh. Omg, they confirmed "their mutual feelings of friendship", lmao.

Meta flies over people's heads too much at this point just be direct. I've never seen dialogue with don't fall in love with me it's not real from a future character and I like you but there's different kinds of like. With people still thinking well this will be the endgame romance?

 

[SilverSisu]

Meta flies over people's heads too much at this point just be direct. I've never seen dialogue with don't fall in love with me it's not real from a future character and I like you but there's different kinds of like. With people still thinking well this will be the endgame romance?

Well that's what i have tried to explain but some hardcore Cleriths replied to me how i was only inhaling copium and that i should get prepared to see Zack getting tossed aside. Some people interpret that Zack accepts Aerith liking Cloud and willfully steps aside.


Truth be told Rebirth made me slightly nervous when i saw how Zack was treated...

 

[Yoru]

Well that's what i have tried to explain but some hardcore Cleriths replied to me how i was only inhaling copium and that i should get prepared to see Zack getting tossed aside. Some people interpret that Zack accepts Aerith liking Cloud and willfully steps aside.


Truth be told Rebirth made me slightly nervous when i saw how Zack was treated...

I'd be more than happy to accept that they won't engage in the legendary sex scene under the Highwind if in exchange we get Aerith and Zack banging in the Lifestream. Just to piss those people off.

Zack came back because he's one of the games most beloved character. Defying fate is just an excuse to have him around this time. If people really think he'll be cast aside for merely existing, they deserve nothing but pain and kamasutra in 4K.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

The thing is. I haven't completely dismissed Aerith's resolution scene yet because I still haven't seen anything in Retrilogy that can comclusively point to me WHY the scene exists.

Because if Aerith supposedly figured out in ReTrilogy she is not sure of her feelings being as deep as love in the dream date and there is a difference between like and like then why the heck would she be warning herself or Cloud not to fall in love if she knows in the future that won't be a problem?

That's why I don't think we have encountered Resolution Aerith yet she might be super far in the future. Like all knowing goddess post AC Aerith or something.

Also I don't understand Nojima's reasons for including this scene and thinking it was so important to do so because if he DOESNT want people to think Cloud fell in love with Aerith at any point, this actually does the opposite. The scene is all romantic framed with her touching his cheek, him reaching out. Talking about don't fall in love with me as if it's a fordidden love trope.
And even "if it's not real" it implies Cloud falling in love with Aerith is something they need to avoid or warn about and you don't warn people about stuff that you know won't happen. That's so weird to warn them about something that apparently won't. Especially if Aerith doesn't need to worry about HERSELF falling in love either if that's the intention of the dream date. Her future self should know this? Why warn at all?
It feels like, we are still missing something somewhere.

That's why I thought it was meta talk about OG and AC but she talks in a way that suggests it's way more encompassing than that. Like this may be Omni Aerith.

That's why I kind of don't like this how they put this scene or the dream date in parts of the story where we have no clue what it is going on. And it does feel like Clerith bait only for the game to set up ZA and CT and Aerith herself to not know.

Meta or not that's not exactly fair. If they want Cleriths to not get any ideas about CA as romantic then this is honestly the weirdest way to do it. They could also just you know NOT make this scenes and show Cloud and Aerith bond as friends and say that? Just be straight about it?

And I keep pointing out moments were the devs do this with Aerith. And I have yet to see such confusing misleading meta for any other character.

 

[SilverSisu]

I'd be more than happy to accept that they won't engage in the legendary sex scene under the Highwind if in exchange we get Aerith and Zack banging in the Lifestream. Just to piss those people off.

Zack came back because he's one of the games most beloved character. Defying fate is just an excuse to have him around this time. If people really think he'll be cast aside for merely existing, they deserve nothing but pain and kamasutra in 4K.

Their meltdown would be astronomical

 

[eleamaya]

I know you weren't talking only about Zack but this is really interesting topic.

actually, I'm talking to both because it's the male character's dynamic I like haha. Ladiesman isn't same as womanizer. But yeah, ladiesman can make his woman get jealous when he's just kind to ladies, so charming that every ladies love him---I exactly have a coworker who behave like this, but man, his wife is also very pretty (we've met) and he loves talking about how pretty she is at office, she also doesnt seem to have problem and more being mad at him if he hang out with his male friends afterwork without telling her. Womanizer is cheater for fun, playing ladies' heart.

Cloud never made any promises to Aerith unlike Zack.

Yeah, their moment in OG when they saw Highwind in Junon doesnt exist in Rebirth. Aerith asked Cloud to promise her taking her flying with it. And players get option if Cloud promised her or not, I forget. Though, even if it existed, I would just see it as parallel of Zack's promise to take her to see the sky, especially since Aerith keep seeing him through Cloud, similar to "one date"

I don't know how anyone can claim Zack is just some playboy, he literally died just trying to see her face again.

I blame maiden who travels the planet novel. There are many Clerith shippers who love to bring that up.

They love how OOC Zack is. His reaction when they reunite is hilarious lol, he wasn't sad at all while our Zack would be crying, and act "Aerith, you're the best one among the girl I have" lmao. I dont blame Aerith for rejecting him. They're indeed not as deeper as the canon one afterwards. And shipping aside, this Zack also express how he always hates Sephiroth, while in canon, Sephiroth appeared as one of his DMW when he's dying.

I remember they also say they prefer Zack's character as morally ambiguous, kind of neutral in alignment, that's their impression from OG. So yeah, they hate Crisis Core!Zack but then they suddenly say "I love how Zack is portrayed in Rebirth" that makes me roll my eyes because "hey, he's character is just EXACTLY the same as Crisis Core portayal".... So it's just them loving Zack being rejected by Marlene's words and still want to cure Cloud to save Aerith.

But that's just a feeling I got. Anyway, it's not a rejection because beforehand she's happy to hear she's Cloud's nakama -- and oh. Omg, they confirmed "their mutual feelings of friendship", lmao.

It's confirmed in COLW "yuujin de ari, koibito de ari" Aerith treasures their friendship as well as her own (romantic) feelings. "De ari" means equal here.

 

[Stiggie]

Because if Aerith supposedly figured out here she is not sure of her feelings being as deep as love in the dream date and there is a difference between like and like then why the heck would she be warning herself or Cloud not to fall in love if she knows in the future that won't be a problem?

That's why I don't think we have encountered Resolution Aerith yet she might be super far in the future. Like all knowing goddess post AC Aerith or something.

My guess is that Remake resolution Aerith might come before Rebirth Resolution Aerith. In that case she herself wasn't sure yet in Remake, but became sure in Rebirth.

Also I don't understand Nojima's reasons for including this scene because if he DOESNT want people to think Cloud fell in love with Aerith at any point, this actually does the opposite. The scene is all romantic framed with her touching his cheek, him reaching out.
And even if it's not real it implies Cloud falling in love with Aerith is something they need to avoid or warn about and you don't warn people about stuff that you know won't happen. That's so weird to warn them about something that apparently won't.

You do it because even though the conclusion is that Aerith and Cloud are just friends, the whole "are they or are they not friends" plotline is still a thing, and you can't have that plotline without scenes that point at them, especially Aerith, being conflicted about the entire thing.
If they just had a clear romance thing, then there wouldn't be conflict, it would be romance. If they had absolutely nothing, then there would be no conflict, it would just be friendship.

But what do you do if you want to show that she's not sure and is working through things? You have her say shit like "whatever you do, don't fall in love with me, it's not real", or " there is a difference between liking, and liking", you show her constantly thinking about Zack and looking unsure even when pretending to be over Zack, stuff like that.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

My guess is that Remake resolution Aerith might come before Rebirth Resolution Aerith. In that case she herself wasn't sure yet in Remake, but became sure in Rebirth.



You do it because even though the conclusion is that Aerith and Cloud are just friends, the whole "are they or are they not friends" plotline is still a thing, and you can't have that plotline without scenes that point at them, especially Aerith, being conflicted about the entire thing.
If they just had a clear romance thing, then there wouldn't be conflict, it would be romance. If they had absolutely nothing, then there would be no conflict, it would just be friendship.

But what do you do if you want to show that she's not sure and is working through things? You have her say shit like "whatever you do, don't fall in love with me, it's not real", or " there is a difference between liking, and liking", you show her constantly thinking about Zack and looking unsure even when pretending to be over Zack, stuff like that.

Okay but again why is she still working out things if this is Aerith with knowledge of the future right? If she knows the future shouldn't she know this shouldn't be a problem to warn about? Does Aerith just forever stay in conflicted feelings forever and never figure it out? They apparently then introduced these conflicted feelings that she doesn't solve ever. The end? Also her dialogue in the dream date is still uncertain "I wonder what kind of like this is" it implies she is still thinking about it even then.
You see where I am coming from?

I'm not saying you don't make sense. You do make a lot of sense. It's these scenes that don't quite fit. Like pieces might still be missing and we get all of the picture in Pt. 3.

Also CT and ZA canon and they took away so many CA moments from OG supposedly to make things clearer.So why even bring back the uncertainty of are they friends or not? If the answer is they're friends but she has feelings and is confused they really could just say that.

This just leads me to believe they want us to view it as uncertain for the conflict to work. That makes sense but it's still just so misleading and weird to do it this way.

And yeah I think it makes sense if she comes before the point of dream date Aerith who is still confused but maybe less confused I don't know. But then the question being who the heck is dream date Aerith? Maybe these are Aerith's remnants or reflections in different alternative realities in the LS and that's why they don't make any sense with the current plot.

I really hope they do explain this at some point because it really is just so weird to constantly do this with Aerith.

 

[Hellenic]

The thing is. I haven't completely dismissed Aerith's resolution scene yet because I still haven't seen anything in Retrilogy that can comclusively point to me WHY the scene exists.

Because if Aerith supposedly figured out in ReTrilogy she is not sure of her feelings being as deep as love in the dream date and there is a difference between like and like then why the heck would she be warning herself or Cloud not to fall in love if she knows in the future that won't be a problem?

That's why I don't think we have encountered Resolution Aerith yet she might be super far in the future. Like all knowing goddess post AC Aerith or something.

Also I don't understand Nojima's reasons for including this scene and thinking it was so important to do so because if he DOESNT want people to think Cloud fell in love with Aerith at any point, this actually does the opposite. The scene is all romantic framed with her touching his cheek, him reaching out. Talking about don't fall in love with me as if it's a fordidden love trope.
And even "if it's not real" it implies Cloud falling in love with Aerith is something they need to avoid or warn about and you don't warn people about stuff that you know won't happen. That's so weird to warn them about something that apparently won't. Especially if Aerith doesn't need to worry about HERSELF falling in love either if that's the intention of the dream date. Her future self should know this? Why warn at all?
It feels like, we are still missing something somewhere.

That's why I thought it was meta talk about OG and AC but she talks in a way that suggests it's way more encompassing than that. Like this may be Omni Aerith.

That's why I kind of don't like this how they put this scene or the dream date in parts of the story where we have no clue what it is going on. And it does feel like Clerith bait only for the game to set up ZA and CT and Aerith herself to not know.

Meta or not that's not exactly fair. If they want Cleriths to not get any ideas about CA as romantic then this is honestly the weirdest way to do it. They could also just you know NOT make this scenes and show Cloud and Aerith bond as friends and say that? Just be straight about it?

And I keep pointing out moments were the devs do this with Aerith. And I have yet to see such confusing misleading meta for any other character.

Yeah i wasn't a huge fan of that resolution scene to be honest. It just felt out of place to me, like we just met this girl basically and suddenly there's this whole talk of love in her resolution, instead of it just being something more relevant to what's currently happening like with the other 2 resolutions or payoffs that we had with those i should say. This just felt way too meta to have randomly out in here.

Square imo should've just let the games speak for itself without trying to force this topic on players here and there, like i just don't see the buildup for either this or the dream date honestly, so i can't take them that seriously if they are supposed to convey some romantic love.

If i'm being honest, i wish they just completely detached Aerith from being any sort of romantic interest for Cloud and just let her character focus on other things. Like you said, this stuff just feels like some pointless baiting for Cleriths and i would've much preferred they explored her character more in other fields.

 

[nars305]

But what do you do if you want to show that she's not sure and is working through things? You have her say shit like "whatever you do, don't fall in love with me, it's not real", or " there is a difference between liking, and liking", you show her constantly thinking about Zack and looking unsure even when pretending to be over Zack, stuff like that.

This is exactly where my thought is at.

If the story wanted to lead me to believe something is there, then instead of Cloud mentioning she is being weird, he would instead ask about the like.

If he asked which like is it, or anything along those lines, then I’d see that as interest.

 

[Yoru]

Okay but again why is she still working out things if this is Aerith with knowledge of the future right? If she knows the future shouldn't she know this shouldn't be a problem to warn about? Does Aerith just forever stay in conflicted feelings forever and never figure it out? They apparently then introduced these conflicted feelings that she doesn't solve ever. The end? Also her dialogue in the dream date is still uncertain "I wonder what kind of like this is" it implies she is still thinking about it even then.
You see where I am coming from?

I'm not saying you don't make sense. You do make a lot of sense. It's these scenes that don't quite fit. Like pieces might still be missing and we get all of the picture in Pt. 3.

Also CT and ZA canon and they took away so many CA moments from OG supposedly to make things clearer.So why even bring back the uncertainty of are they friends or not? If the answer is they're friends but she has feelings and is confused they really could just say that.

This just leads me to believe they want us to view it as uncertain for the conflict to work. That makes sense but it's still just so misleading and weird to do it this way.

And yeah I think it makes sense if she comes before the point of dream date Aerith who is still confused but maybe less confused I don't know. But then the question being who the heck is dream date Aerith? Maybe these are Aerith's remnants or reflections in different alternative realities in the LS and that's why they don't make any sense with the current plot.

I really hope they do explain this at some point because it really is just so weird to constantly do this with Aerith.

You know, just because you know something doesn't mean you can't feel anything.

If I could see into the future and know that my real crush is actually in love with someone else, or that I'll die before we can even talk about this thing, that doesn't negate the fact that I'm feeling things RIGHT NOW.
Life isn't black and white, and neither are people. I think the devs are just showing that she's human. She may become a "goddess" in the future, but that doesn't stop her from longing for love.

And again, we don't really know if this Aerith is real or not, if she's just a goofy vision of LS, if Cloud is imagining things. We simply don't know. Cloud isn't a reliable narrator. The two weird Aerith's scenes take place during his "dreams" !
All this to say, we don't even know if this Aerith knows about Zack. Does she know that there's a future where the group defied "fate" and Zack escaped his fatal destiny? Does the Church Aerith know? There are too many uncertainties to draw a conclusion.

It's all very confusing because so is she. She simply doesn't know. She's dying, but she doesn't want to. Zack is gone and she wants him back. She finds a new family, but she doesn't really know what it's like to have one. I think the devs just show that she's a lonely girl who doesn't know anything about the world. A world she's destined to save. That's the tragedy and irony of the situation. That's why the sky scared her, and why she was comfortable under her Midgar pizza. She just wants to live her life with the people she loves.

In the end it's confusing because that's what they want to do with this love. They know there are Clerith fans. Maybe you'd be quite willing to accept total rejection. But not everyone is. It's not the best solution, but it's the one they've found to keep everyone happy. Yes, this couple will never be canon, but it's nevertheless complex and not devoid of deep feelings. "They're not friends. But they're not lovers"

 

[Rin]

Okay but again why is she still working out things if this is Aerith with knowledge of the future right? If she knows the future shouldn't she know this shouldn't be a problem to warn about? Does Aerith just forever stay in conflicted feelings forever and never figure it out? They apparently then introduced these conflicted feelings that she doesn't solve ever. The end? Also her dialogue in the dream date is still uncertain "I wonder what kind of like this is" it implies she is still thinking about it even then.
You see where I am coming from?

I'm not saying you don't make sense. You do make a lot of sense. It's these scenes that don't quite fit. Like pieces might still be missing and we get all of the picture in Pt. 3.

Also CT and ZA canon and they took away so many CA moments from OG supposedly to make things clearer.So why even bring back the uncertainty of are they friends or not? If the answer is they're friends but she has feelings and is confused they really could just say that.

This just leads me to believe they want us to view it as uncertain for the conflict to work. That makes sense but it's still just so misleading and weird to do it this way.

And yeah I think it makes sense if she comes before the point of dream date Aerith who is still confused but maybe less confused I don't know. But then the question being who the heck is dream date Aerith? Maybe these are Aerith's remnants or reflections in different alternative realities in the LS and that's why they don't make any sense with the current plot.

I really hope they do explain this at some point because it really is just so weird to constantly do this with Aerith.

This reminds me that a lot of people working on FFVIIR don't like the resolution scene either and said it looks bad on Aerith bc she's making assumptions/sounds egotistical. They wanted Nojima to change it/scrap it, but he was like "No, I don't think I will " lmao so I mean, you're not alone in thinking it makes no sense and that it's kind of out of place narratively--because it is. I'm still unsure of Nojima's reasoning for including it when he got so much internal pushback on it.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think some people are letting their biases get in the way. Bringing Zack back, reminding us how devoted he is to Aerith, even the fact that he’d put her happiness before his… all lead me to believe we’re getting a Zerith ending.

It’s kind of a rule of writing almost. I know there is a term for it. Plus, Kitase has repeatedly said he wants a happy ending for these characters, so Zack isn’t gonna be jilted in the end. Neither will Tifa tbh. These are two character in which a romantic resolution is kinda required for them to be happy, based on what they’ve been doing in these past few games.

 

[nars305]

I think some people are letting their biases get in the way. Bringing Zack back, reminding us how devoted he is to Aerith, even the fact that he’d put her happiness before his… all lead me to believe we’re getting a Zerith ending.

It’s kind of a rule of writing almost. I know there is a term for it. Plus, Kitase has repeatedly said he wants a happy ending for these characters, so Zack isn’t gonna be jilted in the end. Neither will Tifa tbh. These are two character in which a romantic resolution is kinda required for them to be happy, based on what they’ve been doing in these past few games.

I’ll always repeat that the story is basically beating us over the head about the pairings.

 

[Yoru]

This reminds me that a lot of people working on FFVIIR don't like the resolution scene either and said it looks bad on Aerith bc she's making assumptions/sounds egotistical. They wanted Nojima to change it/scrap it, but he was like "No, I don't think I will " lmao so I mean, you're not alone in thinking it makes no sense and that it's kind of out of place narratively--because it is. I'm still unsure of Nojima's reasoning for including it when he got so much internal pushback on it.

I don't know. People focus on the "Don't fall in love with me... it's not real" when... she's saying a LOT of other things during this conversation.

1- She tries to reassure Cloud that everything is fine, that Shinra is like a second home = "I'm going to be ok" She's the altruistic one here.
2- She says to enjoy life to the fullest, every moment = fucking red flag. She knows. The Aerith of the remake has more knowledge than the Aerith of the OG.
3- She says she's glad she met him = Literally a ray of sunshine in her life. The only good thing to happen to her after Zack left.
4- She says not to fall in love = She knows. Cloud isn't himself. He can't trust his desires. They're not totally his. Zack x Bodyguard speaking.
5- She thanks him for going to Shinra anyway if that's what he really wants = Again. Cloud isn't ALWAYS himself. She's glad if it's not his Persona talking.
6- Aaaand... she says there's no more time to talk, dawn is coming = Cloud wakes up. Cloud spoke to a strange Aerith while he was "sleeping". AGAIN.

And that's where the uncertainties come in. We don't know what the Lifestream is. We only know a part of it. The part Bugenhagen explained to us. But as we saw in Rebirth, he knows nothing at all. The only time Cloud shares a moment with "out-of-character Aerith" is when it's all in his head. He sleeps in Aerith's house in the Remake. He's in a coma on Barret's back in Rebirth. And when have we seen Cloud "interact" with an Aerith who isn't there in the compilation? Advent Children. A moment that Nomura himself kept very ambiguous. A moment when he said she wasn't real. She's not there. But she's in Cloud's heart. And how the people we've loved but who are gone are still with us in one way or another. That's part of Lifestream's meta-message.

We won't know until we fully understand what the Lifestream really is, and more importantly, how it works. Because if we keep the actual meaning of the Lifestream : The person Cloud is addressing is merely a representation of the memories, dreams and hopes of someone who once existed. It's not a real person.

 

[abzy1200]

It’s kind of a rule of writing almost. I know there is a term for it

I think it's called Chekhov's Gun?