SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

Crow T. Robot: We do!

I regret nothing.

Am I Mike or Tom Servo then?

This This story has a beginning, middle, and end. Some of what you see in the middle may change based on your choices, the end will not.

The last actual plot variable in the entire game is Tifa's level of confidence under the highwind based on her Affection Value, and regardless they confirm mutual romantic feelings in that scene officially.

I wanna say it's a different interview that was being discussed in tandem, but it was always back there so... Could be either.

Regardless, it was said.

Nomura thinks it's best when you figure shit out on your own. If hordes of people get it wrong, that's not his problem.

Nomura likes "engagement." Nojima wasn't people to understand.

Are people really arguing that one of Tifa's many qualities being "maternal" in some way hurts Cloti? After Cloud literally called Aerith mom? That's good old fashioned Both Sides-ism.

Yeah it doesn't make much sense where I'm standing either.

It's funny how hard it is for people to let go of SOLDIER!Cloud and the illusion of choice he provides.

Some people just don't want to admit they got snookered in any way.

Agreed, though this is one of those times I wish he'd just say "I'm not answering that at this time, move on."

It makes things so much simpler.

How long did it take for certain folks to seize on "wanted" being past tense and assume that it doesn't apply to the present, which is optional except it's really Aerith? Was it measured in nanoseconds?

I mean that's been the usual BS answer since '97 when we learned of the sealed up secret wish. "It's in the past" and all.
Funny how Aerith who was deadwas never in the past. Only Tifa, standing right beside him. Time's funny like that sometimes.

Well folk methods can't all be wrong, sign me up.

You just want to burn dumb people. It's okay, you can admit it.

Sadly I'm already buried in cats that I love plus my mother-in-law shaped person's cats so I should hold off on this.

As always, no rush. Just put it at the top of the nameboard.

Why would you wish this on Sonic, he has so much internet bullshit of his own... Oh wait you meant the in-universe .exe stuff. Yeah that could be fun and give Tails something to do. I'm down.

Though meeting someone's edgelord navi based off of Sonic.exe would also be hilarious.

Or if you're Matter Eater Lad. Yes I am referencing that. I still regret nothing.

He could have been cool if he had any ability to do something with the eaten matter. Like Eat-Man.

Will definitely give this a look later.

Feel free to watch the rest of our stuff too.

Under advisement.

You will not be disappointed I don't think.

From what I saw in Rebirth, Fluffy was a prolific breeder. Ergo, baskets of kittens riding on Fenrir. I think I might have diabetes just picturing it.

She had a litter of six, at least, so yeah. All the kittens for everyone. Edge needs mousers.

My own is substantially easier, as it lacks the rasp and volume. I JUST ENDEAVOR TO ACTUALLY SPEAK IN BOLDED ALL-CAPS. Also sees a fair but of use since it's easier for Clicky to understand (she has pretty severe hearing loss especially for higher pitched sounds so the deeper I can go the better).

For me it's vibrating my throat to create a stereo effect as I talk.

That's adorably inconvenient.

She likes to be way up high. She rides on my shoulder and arm like a parrot.

Well heretic or infidel, it amounts to the same. You're both correct and know how to debate and they hate you for it Wear it with pride.

I do. It's why I call myself Deus Admiral. Those were insults I repurposed.

Ok so it is 2024, good. Had me worried, some of the last 14 years did feel more like a a nightmare than reality. But, I got three good reasons to never take them back.

Blinky, Pinky and Clyde?

To be fair, isn't that all words? When using a word with a looser or more varied meaning isn't it just as or more important to be precise about how it's being used?

And I do both know what you mean and agree, I'm just saying.

In this case because there's no other word with a meaning as specific as canon, I feel we ought to be more precise with it than normal. Don't want another literally on our hands, after all.

For some, a bio-baby isn't enough. Nothing ever will be. For those who follow the narrative, Denzel wasn't even necessary, he's a cherry on top.

He's a handy narrative shorthand for "Cloud is a family man now." I'd actually like for there to be more for him to do. I guess Nojima agreed which is why he wrote Episode Denzel.

That is funny. Hilarious, actually.

I mean, I do suspect it's purely to drive a wedge in to pretend there's space for a C/A conclusion and then insist on that conclusion because we "can't say for sure" etc. etc. etc. Clerith of the gaps and all.

Tempted to write a parody version of Professional Pirate for the LTD.

"Cause when you're a dishonest CAltist... It hurts to tell the truth!"

Do eet!

Now, putting aside how ridiculous this claim is for a moment... how do you even run an orphanage that is a rival to another orphanage? Do you compete on number of orphans in your care? Number successfully adopted out? Do we throw them into Battle Square over at the Gold Saucer?

Orphan battles in the streets to determine who rules the city, maybe?

Both can and should.

Laugh at them a bit too, for good measure.

The only accurate translations are done in a WacDonald's, everyone knows that

A beacon of truth and honestly, WacDonald's is.

Pretty much this. Even back in the bad old days this was true outside of bad faith actors like BlankBeat and Anastar who posted exclusively to pick fights in the name of Pink Hell.

It was darkly hilarious to see them turn on translators who were formerly totally trustworthy in their eyes because a translation came out "Cloti."

Are you serious? I remember, if only vaguely, some accusations of that kind of shenanigans, but never heard if anyone got to the bottom of it. That's low, if true. And being as I'm hearing it from our Admiral, I have to assume that at minimum it's the most obvious conclusion based on available evidence.

On at least one occasion they were caught using Hitoshura's translation with one word changed. It was either a crisis core keyword or a character profile, I think. There were also instances of just making complete bullshit up like Koi SPACE Bito which means something completely different to Koibtio.

Chronologically in-universe sounds best to me. By import or impact would be too subjective, and in-universe chronology should mix up old and new out of universe a bit. Also you definitely should get the SSL up again ASAP FGJ, and quoting from it should be SOP until all opposition is FUBAR

I can start with the quote from 2000 gil to be a hero then.

I haven't heard Material Jesus in years. Ahhh nostalgia.

When people are making her to be a saintly messianic figure, I'm gonna mock them for it, simple as.

"But wait! Character relationship charts say Cloud and Tifa are just childhood friends!"

End my suffering

They say the same about several couples who get married in the end!

Except in Rebirth Cait's readings were 3/3

That cat is on a roll

But they're all very vague, is my point.

I completely forgot that reading to be honest. I was thinking about those 3 he gave to Cloud at Gold saucer.

1. "Things are looking up so throw your caution to the wind. Put your trust in others and a last minute twist may pleasantly surprise you"

2. "Watch your belongings. Lucky color: black"

3. "Seek and you are sure to find. But alas, you shall forever lose what you cherish most."

All three readings were spot on.

All of these lack a lot of detail. You could make the case that these are all ironic, in that for example, putting your trust in Cait gives a last minute twist of betrayal, the Black Materia is decidedly unlucky, etc.



Also, re: the translator subtly changing that quote, anyone still calling her Aeris in the last decade is immediately suspect to me.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

So err on the side of caution reading translations out in the wild?
Good to know.

 

[abzy1200]

However, at the end of the day, the writers will no doubt be as respectful to the characters as possible. And I think, in order for a happy ending for everyone, CT and ZA kinda need to happen because otherwise, we have two characters who have a blatantly unfulfilling end.

This. There is absolutely no way Nojima gives one of the lead characters, Tifa, such a sad ending where she is forever second place.

Same goes for Zack.

It's even less likely going off of past statements from Nojima, where he claims that Cloud and Tifa belong at home together.

and also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Nojma have a particular fondness for Zack and Tifa? If that is the case then there's no genuinely no way it's going to happen that Zack and Tifa get cucked.

Scratch that, if Clerith really was to be canonized in part 3, and Aerith stays dead since we are following the events of the original, then literally not a single lead role will have a happy ending.

Cloud can't because his "love" is dead.

Aerith can't because she's seperated from her "love"

Tifa can't because she has just gone through the wringer for the man she loves only to be knocked down a place in his heart from her original place at the top. (Side note: I've said it before but I have always hated this, it might be genuinely the most insulting thing to say about Tifa, that years with her and everything Tifa has done for Cloud and she still can't match up to Aerith. It might be the number 1 way to make someone feel like shit about themself.)

and Zack can't because he is stuck in the friendzone for eternity.

So err on the side of caution reading translations out in the wild?
Good to know.

Absolutely, I've seen some egregious paraphrasing done on both sides.

Look out for a particular one that states Sephiroth "robbed Cloud of his beloved."

@Ryushikaze Queue the fact that Cid and Shera are referred to as married,

and the family of friends line..........

 

[Ryeleigh]

It's confirmed in COLW "yuujin de ari, koibito de ari" Aerith treasures their friendship as well as her own (romantic) feelings. "De ari" means equal here.

Lol, I was making a joke about the old argument that Cloud and Tifa confirmed their mutual feelings of friendship under the Highwind in the OG.

But who actually got the dialogue of "Nakama dakara na" and "Sō da ne. Kuraudo no kimochi kikete yokatta". (Not sure if I got all the words right since I'm working from hearing.)

 

[Maidenofwar]

Nojima did mention a favourite scene of Aerith at the well, and also something about Aerith's boots another time so I think he might be fond of her as well, but if Zack's his original creation then that might be quite important to him, don't want to put words in anyone's mouth though, just speculation, no bad intent.

 

[abzy1200]

Nojima did mention a favourite scene of Aerith at the well, and also something about Aerith's boots another time so I think he might be fond of her as well, but if Zack's his original creation then that might be quite important to him, don't want to put words in anyone's mouth though, just speculation, no bad intent.

I can 100% see why Nojima would be fond of Zack, I ask to correct me if I'm wrong because it's Tifa I'm not too sure about.

Thanks for the reply, anyway.

 

[abzy1200]

Lol, I was making a joke about the old argument that Cloud and Tifa confirmed their mutual feelings of friendship under the Highwind in the OG.

I still see it out in the wild, it's far from just an old argument lmao

 

[Sacky]

Guys help im getting told Aeriths thank you is i love you in Japanese what level of copium is this now
This is the kinda stuff people are saying
"About the kiss scene, the devs seemingly chose to depict Cloud and Tifa's relationship as more physical because it's the only way they can express their affection at that point. They still have a lot of work to do to sort things out. On the other end, Aerith and Cloud hold hands the way only very close or married couples do in Japan, because the devs wanted to depict their bound as more emotional. Both girls represent very different archetypes of lovers, so it's only natural the relationships don't grow the same way but that doesn't mean one is more legit than the other. And for the "like" dialogue, Aerith is a lot clearer in Japanese but some of the subtlety is lost in translation. She uses two different words to say like, one being more platonic and the other more romantic and she implies very strongly she leans more on the second. When she says "thank you" later on, Cloud is totally taken off guard 'cause saying thank you in that context could be understood as "I love you". The interesting thing is FFX localisation team chose back in the day to translate the same thank you Yuna gave to Tidus as an I love you"

 

[Maidenofwar]

I can 100% see why Nojima would be fond of Zack, I ask to correct me if I'm wrong because it's Tifa I'm not too sure about.

Thanks for the reply, anyway.

Yeah I think he is fond of all of them, probably

 

[abzy1200]

Guys help im getting told Aeriths thank you is i love you in Japanese what level of copium is this now
This is the kinda stuff people are saying
"About the kiss scene, the devs seemingly chose to depict Cloud and Tifa's relationship as more physical because it's the only way they can express their affection at that point. They still have a lot of work to do to sort things out. On the other end, Aerith and Cloud hold hands the way only very close or married couples do in Japan, because the devs wanted to depict their bound as more emotional. Both girls represent very different archetypes of lovers, so it's only natural the relationships don't grow the same way but that doesn't mean one is more legit than the other. And for the "like" dialogue, Aerith is a lot clearer in Japanese but some of the subtlety is lost in translation. She uses two different words to say like, one being more platonic and the other more romantic and she implies very strongly she leans more on the second. When she says "thank you" later on, Cloud is totally taken off guard 'cause saying thank you in that context could be understood as "I love you". The interesting thing is FFX localisation team chose back in the day to translate the same thank you Yuna gave to Tidus as an I love you"

If it actually was it would feel really out of place.

"I wonder what like I have for you?"

1 minute and hug later:

"I love you"

???

Yeah I think he is fond of all of them, probably

I don't doubt he is fond of all of them, but I meant in the sense that they are his "favourites," if you get me?

 

[imach0c0]

It's confirmed in COLW "yuujin de ari, koibito de ari" Aerith treasures their friendship as well as her own (romantic) feelings. "De ari" means equal here.

If Cloud is Aerith's koibito, what does that make Zack to her? Does Aerith have 2 koibitos?

 

[Sacky]

If Cloud is Aerith's koibito, what does that make Zack to her? Does Aerith have 2 koibitos?

there was a funny leak of Aerith saying i have two boyfriends being dialogue XD

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Guys help im getting told Aeriths thank you is i love you in Japanese what level of copium is this now
. And for the "like" dialogue, Aerith is a lot clearer in Japanese but some of the subtlety is lost in translation. She uses two different words to say like, one being more platonic and the other more romantic and she implies very strongly she leans more on the second. When she says "thank you" later on, Cloud is totally taken off guard 'cause saying thank you in that context could be understood as "I love you". The interesting thing is FFX localisation team chose back in the day to translate the same thank you Yuna gave to Tidus as an I love you"

Ok but no because I literally transcribed that scene. I wrote what I heard there are not two different versions of like in her sentence. She only uses suki. Where are they getting two words to say like?
Unless they are talking about the implications of koi and renai like I was? But that's from the compilation and Ultimania not that sentence. But no because it's apparently platonic vs not which again is included in iro iro (different types) but it's not implied she means any specific one.

Her thank you could be based on her feelings sure but no it wouldn't be understood as I love you because of Yuna's line.

I'm sure I know some in that fandom can read Japanese but the the majority can't and so it's very easy to get mislead when someone writes stuff like that so confidentially.

It's a really messed up if their own fanbase are actively leading others on.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

If Cloud is Aerith's koibito, what does that make Zack to her? Does Aerith have 2 koibitos?

Yes she does because in the Crisis Core Ultimania Aerith and Zack are described as koibito to eachother. Aerith is a character who loved two men.

Now whatever Rebirth is doing with that I have no clue. But that's how it was at the time of the compilation and LS White.

 

[GamerSkull]

Ok but no because I literally transcribed that scene. I wrote what I heard there are not two different versions of like in her sentence. She only uses suki. Where are they getting two words to say like?
Unless they are talking about the implications of koi and renai like I was? But that's from the compilation and Ultimania not that sentence. But no because it's apparently platonic vs not which again is included in iro iro (different types) but it's not implied she means any specific one.

Her thank you could be based on her feelings sure but no it wouldn't be understood as I love you because of Yuna's line.

I'm sure I know some in that fandom can read Japanese but the the majority can't and so it's very easy to get mislead when someone writes stuff like that so confidentially.

It's a really messed up if their own fanbase are actively leading others on.

The worst part is that it’s gonna set up a false expectation for Part 3.

 

[imach0c0]

Okay but again why is she still working out things if this is Aerith with knowledge of the future right? If she knows the future shouldn't she know this shouldn't be a problem to warn about? Does Aerith just forever stay in conflicted feelings forever and never figure it out? They apparently then introduced these conflicted feelings that she doesn't solve ever. The end? Also her dialogue in the dream date is still uncertain "I wonder what kind of like this is" it implies she is still thinking about it even then.
You see where I am coming from?

I'm not saying you don't make sense. You do make a lot of sense. It's these scenes that don't quite fit. Like pieces might still be missing and we get all of the picture in Pt. 3.

Also CT and ZA canon and they took away so many CA moments from OG supposedly to make things clearer.So why even bring back the uncertainty of are they friends or not? If the answer is they're friends but she has feelings and is confused they really could just say that.

This just leads me to believe they want us to view it as uncertain for the conflict to work. That makes sense but it's still just so misleading and weird to do it this way.

And yeah I think it makes sense if she comes before the point of dream date Aerith who is still confused but maybe less confused I don't know. But then the question being who the heck is dream date Aerith? Maybe these are Aerith's remnants or reflections in different alternative realities in the LS and that's why they don't make any sense with the current plot.

I really hope they do explain this at some point because it really is just so weird to constantly do this with Aerith.

This is what I find confusing and misleading as well. Especially when you have the koibito line from COLW.

If this Aerith is from the future, these scene seems to imply that Aerith knew that at one point in time the Cloud fell in love with her and is coming to warn him. One can also argue that this scene has a romantic tone towards it with Aerith's hand touching Cloud's face and Cloud's reaching for her hand before it disappears.

In the Dream Date, Aerith is about to die (its assumed) and perhaps she is running out of time. So I can see that as her as literally living in the moment and going off emotions rather than thinking it through.

Also, there seems to be a tonal shift in Rebirth because I did not detect Cloud having romantic feelings towards Aerith. The only conclusion I can draw is the chapter 14 remake resolution scene may come back and be addressed in Part 3. Perhaps Cloud may fall in love with the Aerith in his imagination? The other thing I can think of is this Aerith was probably assuming things because she harboured a "like" for Cloud. So perhaps she assumed he may feel the same way as her, so she just said that to protect him (just in case). IDK

However, if this scene does not get addressed in Part 3, you start to question the point of having these scene at all. To me, it kinda comes off as a disservice to Aerith's character. I get that no one is perfect and perhaps its to show her naivety when it comes to relationships and feelings.

Also, throughout the remake trilogy, she seems aware of the CT relationship and has oftentimes shown to support and push them together. So for her to be so back and forth with her feelings makes it confusing. The inconsistencies between this "all knowing wise" Aerith VS this childish and indesivive Aerith can be jarring. Maybe its to show she is human at the end of the day. IDK

So if all this is done to show Aerith's character development, its a strange way to go on about it because of how misleading it is. And setting up for ZA does not seem like a good enough reason.

 

[imach0c0]

Yes she does because in the Crisis Core Ultimania Aerith and Zack are described as koibito to eachother. Aerith is a character who loved two men.

Now whatever Rebirth is doing with that I have no clue. But that's how it was at the time of the compilation and LS White.

Is Cloud koibito and Zack koibito on different levels?

Cause I thought ZA koibito is ren'nai (mutual) and CA is koi (one-sided from Aerith)

 

[GamerSkull]

I try to tell myself that these shippers who are spreading innacurate translation or are deliberately being obtuse about the facts are just a minority in this fandom and a majority are more or less normal about it.

I still think that’s true but sometimes I have my doubts.

 

[Sacky]

Ok but no because I literally transcribed that scene. I wrote what I heard there are not two different versions of like in her sentence. She only uses suki. Where are they getting two words to say like?
Unless they are talking about the implications of koi and renai like I was? But that's from the compilation and Ultimania not that sentence. But no because it's apparently platonic vs not which again is included in iro iro (different types) but it's not implied she means any specific one.

Her thank you could be based on her feelings sure but no it wouldn't be understood as I love you because of Yuna's line.

I'm sure I know some in that fandom can read Japanese but the the majority can't and so it's very easy to get mislead when someone writes stuff like that so confidentially.

It's a really messed up if their own fanbase are actively leading others on.

i don't understand why the extremists just lie. It aint gonna change the next game or the actual scene so whats the point?

 

[imach0c0]

i don't understand why the extremists just lie. It aint gonna change the next game or the actual scene so whats the point?

Why was Yuna's arigatou interpreted as "I love you" but Aerith's arigatou was interpreted as "Thank you" ? Is it in context to Aerith being uncertain?

 

[SilverSisu]

Guys help im getting told Aeriths thank you is i love you in Japanese what level of copium is this now
This is the kinda stuff people are saying
"About the kiss scene, the devs seemingly chose to depict Cloud and Tifa's relationship as more physical because it's the only way they can express their affection at that point. They still have a lot of work to do to sort things out. On the other end, Aerith and Cloud hold hands the way only very close or married couples do in Japan, because the devs wanted to depict their bound as more emotional. Both girls represent very different archetypes of lovers, so it's only natural the relationships don't grow the same way but that doesn't mean one is more legit than the other. And for the "like" dialogue, Aerith is a lot clearer in Japanese but some of the subtlety is lost in translation. She uses two different words to say like, one being more platonic and the other more romantic and she implies very strongly she leans more on the second. When she says "thank you" later on, Cloud is totally taken off guard 'cause saying thank you in that context could be understood as "I love you". The interesting thing is FFX localisation team chose back in the day to translate the same thank you Yuna gave to Tidus as an I love you"

The only thing these Cleriths got right was that fingerlock thing but it doesn't matter in the big picture because Cloud is just a rebound guy. In chapter 14 Aerith realizes that Cloud is not a Zack 2.0 and friendzones him.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

If i'm being honest, i wish they just completely detached Aerith from being any sort of romantic interest for Cloud and just let her character focus on other things. Like you said, this stuff just feels like some pointless baiting for Cleriths and i would've much preferred they explored her character more in other fields.

Aerith having feelings for Cloud has always been part of the story. So I'm fine with that but they really focused on it a bit too much and imo in a way that is just very confusing. I would have loved to see her talk more of her freedom fear and hesitation of becoming Cetra like in OG. In OG she really has deep moments that aren't in ReTrilogy and it makes me wonder why.

It's all very confusing because so is she. She simply doesn't know. She's dying, but she doesn't want to. Zack is gone and she wants him back. She finds a new family, but she doesn't really know what it's like to have one. I think the devs just show that she's a lonely girl who doesn't know anything about the world. A world she's destined to save. That's the tragedy and irony of the situation. That's why the sky scared her, and why she was comfortable under her Midgar pizza. She just wants to live her life with the people she loves.

In the end it's confusing because that's what they want to do with this love. They know there are Clerith fans. Maybe you'd be quite willing to accept total rejection. But not everyone is. It's not the best solution, but it's the one they've found to keep everyone happy. Yes, this couple will never be canon, but it's nevertheless complex and not devoid of deep feelings. "They're not friends. But they're not lovers"

I have to agree with this. Both are probably an amalgamation like dreams tend to be. Because if we compare them to regular Aerith walking around with them it doesn't match up. It could be a representation of her feelings and thoughts and I like that line "It's confusing because so is she".

Maybe it is that we are just missing pieces or maybe Cloud's dreams are just all messed up and she is also just as weird in them because he doesn't get what she is trying to tell him. Or maybe the devs wanted a metaphor for how deep and complicated the Clerith bond is.

I don't know maybe these scenes are genius art and going over my head because I overanalyze lol.

It's not that I'd want to see her get rejected but I can live with it if it makes things clearer this just leads people on a bit. But I like your explanation. I just hope we do get an explanation because especially the dream date takes so much space of Aerith's arc that I feel it should be relevant in a way that makes sense for her character.

 

[nars305]

I see that the new thing to talk about is Tifa getting replaced in the LS sequence.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Is Cloud koibito and Zack koibito on different levels?

Cause I thought ZA koibito is ren'nai (mutual) and CA is koi (one-sided from Aerith)

Yes because koi is like the affection one feels when they fall for someone the first time like the initial attraction and longing. It can be one sided. While rennai would be the love that deepens and wants a stable lasting relationship. It's mutual and like when you've been together for a bit. So the next stage up.

And she was literally in a relationship with Zack.

 

[GamerSkull]

I see that the new thing to talk about is Tifa getting replaced in the LS sequence.

Doubt it. But I suppose they can dream…