SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

I still think the angst in AC is a little bit artificial.

Sure his feelings are natural. But I don't know. I think Cloud is too extreme in his behavior

I mean, he is desperate for a cure for the fatal wasting disease that he and his adopted son suffer from and he wants absolution for his guilt so he can go home and be happy with his common law wife. It's melodramatic, but not artificial.

 

[Sacky]

Honestly I just cannot get over Cloud LEAVING. Leaving is insane. Tifa is 21, 22 in AC? Running the bar, taking orders/requests for the delivery service, Barret leaves Marlene with her, Cloud adopts Denzel and leaves him with her, and then he goes off to Aerith's church? And Denzel gets a terminal illness and Cloud does too but he hides it from her? And he doesn't answer her calls? Like....that would just be so soul crushing to me.

Its rough but essentially, Cloud feels like he doesn't want to die near his family and was trying to find a cure for Denzel but he didn't so he also feels like hes failed his foster son now and then just goes into self pity of im not good enough to help anyone they would all be better off without me, i failed Aerith, i Failed Zack and now im dying i shouldn't cause them any more pain i should leave, maybe before i die i can get forgiveness. Very much depressed and that does change how people act. The happier Cloud is with Tifa and his family scares him into thinking oh no i could lose this i cant protect them if something happens i should leave im not worthy. Basically reverted back to his younger self when he knew he was going to die from Geostigma

 

[Rin]

I still think the angst in AC is a little bit artificial.

Sure his feelings are natural. But I don't know. I think Cloud is too extreme in his behavior

I'd also just like to say I can't reconcile ACC with almost any of the Rebirth characterizations at all.

Like the way they've fleshed out Barret as a father now....? Don't make me do quests where he cries about her growing up and them being separated/him never being able to let her go and then tell me he leaves her in the care of Cloti as he goes to settle his past. In my opinion, Marlene IS Barrets salvation. Being a good dad to her and taking care of her is how he atones for his sins, not going off to fund big oil. DON'T PISS ME AWF, SE.

Sorry. Had to get that off my chest lol.

 

[Yoru]

I mean, he is desperate for a cure for the fatal wasting disease that he and his adopted son suffer from and he wants absolution for his guilt so he can go home and be happy with his common law wife. It's melodramatic, but not artificial.

I don't know. I just don't see Cloud being such an asshole to Tifa. I may be biased. But watching the movie for the first time legit made me hate Cloud. So yeah I found it artificial in the sense "hey we need to create some drama for our movie"

I'm not asking him to be lovey dovey while going through a depression. But leaving like that ? Without giving news ? For one month ?

To me it's the real starter of this whole Clerith narrative, and I'll just hate this movie for that.

Complete edition tried to fix some of the things but the damage had been done.

 

[GamerSkull]

Like I said earlier, I really hope SE commits to the setups that they seem to have planted. I actually think the discussion around what Aerith’s character develops into towards the end of Rebirth and how Zack and Cloud both fit into it, and how Cloud and Tifa fit into their characters arcs have been a lot more productive from the CT/ZA standpoint. Otherwise, interpretations seem surface-level at best.

I guess a part of me still worries they’ll pull a bait and switch and completely 180 in the next game, as unlikely as it sounds. Or be afraid to commit and keep things ambiguous.

I definitely think they need to end this in a way where people don’t have wild interpretations that go off the deep end because the series will then end with “unresolved feelings”, which is something they said in the Ultimania that they didn’t want to do.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

Its rough but essentially, Cloud feels like he doesn't want to die near his family and was trying to find a cure for Denzel but he didn't so he also feels like hes failed his foster son now and then just goes into self pity of im not good enough to help anyone they would all be better off without me, i failed Aerith, i Failed Zack and now im dying i shouldn't cause them any more pain i should leave, maybe before i die i can get forgiveness. Very much depressed and that does change how people act. The happier Cloud is with Tifa and his family scares him into thinking oh no i could lose this i cant protect them if something happens i should leave im not worthy. Basically reverted back to his younger self when he knew he was going to die from Geostigma

I understand all of it, but like...leaving without saying anything is ...probably the most hurtful thing he could have done, I think. I get that he's depressed, but...

 

[Sacky]

I understand all of it, but like...leaving without saying anything is ...probably the most hurtful thing he could have done, I think. I get that he's depressed, but...

oh yeah hes an asshole for that and Tifa welcomes him back way to easily afterwards but it does make sense for Cloud's character. Tifa and Marlene did go to the church to drag him back when he returned though. Did they need to have this be the ending after a whole lot of suffering in the main story though that is the question XD. Like let us see Dorky Cloud please XD

 

[Yoru]

I understand all of it, but like...leaving without saying anything is ...probably the most hurtful thing he could have done, I think. I get that he's depressed, but...

Yeah. For me, that's completely dismissing the whole of FF7. I hated it.

I learned to enjoy it with the years but...

 

[Sacky]

Yeah. For me, that's completely dismissing the whole of FF7. I hated it.

I learned to enjoy it with the years but...

Its an interesting story idea but did we need it or could we not have had something more fun? and conclusive for the characters in the end. I just want Real Cloud for a long period of time and not full emo Cloud, the fact the lifestream sequence that Tifa and Cloud went through wasn't even mentioned by them aswell is so annoying considering it was meant to not have Cloud go back into this state he was meant to accept his weaknesses and grow from his mistakes. It also resulted in the worst era of fanfiction for Tifa and Cloud fans

 

[abzy1200]

But I do intensely dislike the effect of Clerith on the product, and I think that as a group I do hate "Clerith" itself. So when people identify as such it does bother me that they're essentially lending weight to a group that I think as a whole the fandom would be better off without. I don't hate people who simply like the dynamic between Cloud and Aerith though and like the idea of a romance between them. I like the idea of Auron and Beatrix, not everything has to make sense.

Same, I don't dislike people who enjoy Clerith, it's the ship itself, the collateral damage it causes to the story and characters, and the vocal "it's canon!" people that get on my nerves. It's not exclusive to Clerith though, as a whole I really dislike any ship in ff7 that involves Cloud or Tifa that isn't Cloti, they just rub me the wrong way, and I'm not really sure why.

I still think the angst in AC is a little bit artificial.

Sure his feelings are natural. But I don't know. I think Cloud is too extreme in his behavior

I don't necessarily think so, I feel like a major trap that most depressed people fall into is the mindset of "my loved ones would be better without me"

I think there's also an element of "my son looks up to me like I'm his hero, how can I ever come home, look him in the eyes, and tell him that I'm going to fall victim to the same thing he's struggling through?"

But yeah, at this point, for me, Advent Children is the Cloud and Sephiroth fight, Denzel being Cloud and Tifa's adopted son, and the Turks being funny. Everything else I've kind of blocked out.

I guess a part of me still worries they’ll pull a bait and switch and completely 180 in the next game, as unlikely as it sounds. Or be afraid to commit and keep things ambiguous.

Like I've said before, the fact that Cloti got Rebirth a bunch praise makes me think they won't do this. Being vague with it never really got ff7 that much praise. Atleast not recently, I think.

And Nojima also claiming that he has conviction, the same guy who felt in his heart that Cloud and Tifa would be at home together.

and yeah, the whole "unresolved feelings" thing aswell.

 

[Yoru]

but it does make sense for Cloud's character.

I'm not even convinced, to be honest. I'm just not sure. Is it really the case?

Lack of self-confidence? Yes.
Trying to run away from the reality of things? Yes.
Totally ignoring Tifa and abandoning her? I'm starting to have doubts.

I understand the big picture. But the execution sucks. The character doesn't seem to have evolved at all from his pre-Mideel state.

 

[Sacky]

I'm not even convinced, to be honest. I'm just not sure. Is it really the case?

Lack of self-confidence? Yes.
Trying to run away from the reality of things? Yes.
Totally ignoring Tifa and abandoning her? I'm starting to have doubts.

I understand the big picture. But the execution sucks. The character doesn't seem to have evolved at all from his pre-Mideel state.

yeah its the ignoring Tifa that made no sense to me and its annoying cause this is not the characterisation people are getting from Remake trilogy or even OG. I don't understand how they thought it would be a good idea to show Cloud just ignore phone calls when we learn in the lifestream how devoted this person was. Again AC love the aesthestic, like certain scenes and the ending, hate the story and characterisation

 

[Yoru]

Like... sorry for the classic Cloti propaganda bs but...



Bro's inner voice telling us helping Tifa (yes he's not saying "the lady" in JP...) is the only way to prove he's himself... I refuse to finish this Re:Trilogy with this shitty movie.

YES I SAID IT. I DON'T WANNA GO BAAAAACK NOOOOOOOO

 

[Rin]

I still think the angst in AC is a little bit artificial.

Sure his feelings are natural. But I don't know. I think Cloud is too extreme in his behavior

To speak on this specifically bc my other response was kinda both on and off topic... I kind of get what you mean.

It's less that his reaction is unrealistic and more that the plot itself is artificial and was created to sell a very specific type of Cloud that Nomura thought fans would identify with more than the fully faceted version of his character. For this reason, the entire conflict of ACC feels fake and it's also why I don't like the movie as well.

It's forcing the characters into specific boxes because they want to meet "fan expectations" instead of just telling the story in a way that is genuinely authentic to them all. Nojima's first concept was just a cute little domestic plot about Cloti's quiet and peaceful life, very Studio Ghibli if you will, but SE didn't think that would sell.

A forced plot is a forced plot, no matter how realistic the depictions of depression, PTSD, and grief are.

 

[GamerSkull]

We really do need a post-DoC epilogue, if only for closure and true confirmation as to where our characters ended up years later.

I’ll give ACC one thing, I genuinely love the moment Cloud affirms he is Zack’s living legacy. Need a moment like that in Part 3.

 

[Yoru]

To speak on this specifically bc my other response was kinda both on and off topic... I kind of get what you mean.

It's less that his reaction is unrealistic and more that the plot itself is artificial and was created to sell a very specific type of Cloud that Nomura thought fans would identify with more than the fully faceted version of his character. For this reason, the entire conflict of ACC feels fake and it's also why I don't like the movie as well.

It's forcing the characters into specific boxes because they want to meet "fan expectations" instead of just telling the story in a way that is genuinely authentic to them all. Nojima's first concept was just a cute little domestic plot about Cloti's quiet and peaceful life, very Studio Ghibli if you will, but SE didn't think that would sell.

A forced plot is a forced plot, no matter how realistic the depictions of depression, PTSD, and grief are.

Thank you Rin for putting better words. That's exactly what I'm thinking when I use the term "Artificial plot".

 

[Sacky]

To speak on this specifically bc my other response was kinda both on and off topic... I kind of get what you mean.

It's less that his reaction is unrealistic and more that the plot itself is artificial and was created to sell a very specific type of Cloud that Nomura thought fans would identify with more than the fully faceted version of his character. For this reason, the entire conflict of ACC feels fake and it's also why I don't like the movie as well.

It's forcing the characters into specific boxes because they want to meet "fan expectations" instead of just telling the story in a way that is genuinely authentic to them all. Nojima's first concept was just a cute little domestic plot about Cloti's quiet and peaceful life, very Studio Ghibli if you will, but SE didn't think that would sell.

A forced plot is a forced plot, no matter how realistic the depictions of depression, PTSD, and grief are.

im shocked they thought a plot of our favourite characters being sad again while the rest of the characters make small cameos and we have to watch some weird Sephiroth kids would be a good idea?

 

[abzy1200]

We really do need a post-DoC epilogue, if only for closure and true confirmation as to where our characters ended up years later.

I think the closest thing we have is reminisce.

But even then, that's not quite the sledgehammer the LTD needed, obviously.

 

[nars305]

Like... sorry for the classic Cloti propaganda bs but...

View attachment 16547

Bro's inner voice telling us helping Tifa (yes he's not saying "the lady" in JP...) is the only way to prove he's himself... I refuse to finish this Re:Trilogy with this shitty movie.

YES I SAID IT. I DON'T WANNA GO BAAAAACK NOOOOOOOO

View attachment 16548

Honestly I’m with you. I’m praying that AC is just a timeline and we are bypassing it LOL.

 

[Yoru]

im shocked they thought a plot of our favourite characters being sad again while the rest of the characters make small cameos and we have to watch some weird Sephiroth kids would be a good idea?

Yup. We've come a long way.

Remake and Rebirth may have some flaws. But man. The quality is incomparable with the rest of the compilation.

I really hope they manage to make three games that stand on their own and that we don't need to go back over the old compilation content. Because honestly... the good things they brought can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

 

[Rin]

im shocked they thought a plot of our favourite characters being sad again while the rest of the characters make small cameos and we have to watch some weird Sephiroth kids would be a good idea?

They just wanted to create an action movie but it's like.......... why are you making these characters suffer so much for a fanservice action film? Just watch some feel-good shounen arcs and write something in that vein

Thank you Rin for putting better words. That's exactly what I'm thinking when I use the term "Artificial plot".

You're welcome, 'cause yeah I totally get it. It's just so forced and weird lol and it annoys me to remember that Cloud was depicted that way bc Nomura didn't think people would recognize him otherwise. And I agree with your other posts, with the way Cloud is written in Rebirth (and even the OG tbh) it's downright impossible to imagine him just leaving Tifa and the kids without a word.

Even at his lowest, even at his very worst, Cloud has never truly abandoned Tifa or chosen not to communicate with her. "Everyone, thanks for everything. And... I'm sorry. Especially you, Tifa. I'm really sorry. You've been so good to me...... I don't know what to say... I never lived up to being 'Cloud'. Tifa...... Maybe one day you'll meet the real 'Cloud'." -- Cloud Strife at the absolute lowest he's ever been in life.

And yet they want me to believe that this man would leave her to raise 2 kids by herself w/o saying a word or picking up her calls? Idk.... That's simply not Cloud

 

[nars305]

This part carries AC for me lmao.

 

[Yoru]

That's how I quit the FF7 universe before the AC release.

Summary of the ending by the Ultimania guide :

Cloud and his friends defeated Sephiroth. However, even though Sephiroth's physical form was destroyed, his spirit shows signs of resurrection without dispersing into the Lifestream. Cloud extends his spirit and settles the final confrontation with Sephiroth. Eventually, surrounded by the Lifestream, he finds himself hearing Tifa's voice. In the azure flow, Cloud feels as if he has found the promised land that the Cetra seek and the answer that the stars have given. And together with Tifa, they promise to someday visit their cherished ones.

And you give me this movie after this ending full of hope ? Damn you Nomura.

For people doubting about the translation (as you always should in this fandom) here's the japanese text :

●クラウドとセフィロス
クラウドたちはセフィロスを倒した。だがセ フィロスの肉体は滅んでも、精神はライフス トリームの流れに拡散することなく復活の気 配を見せる。クラウドは精神を飛ばし、セフ ィロスとの完全なる決着をつける。やがてラ イフストリームがクラウドを取り巻き、気が つくとティファの呼ぶ声が聞こえていた。ク ラウドは碧色の流れの中で、セトラが見つけ るという約束の地や、星が出した答えを見た ような気がした。そしてティファとふたり、 懐かしい人たちに、いつの日か会いに行こう と約束する。

 

[nars305]

If I had it my way the game would circle back to Cloud and Tifa going on the date they were planning in Alone at Last from Remake.

 

[abzy1200]

That's how I quit the FF7 universe before the AC release.

Summary of the ending by the Ultimania guide :



And you give me this movie after this ending full of hope ? Damn you Nomura.

For people doubting about the translation (as you always should in this fandom) here's the japanese text :

●クラウドとセフィロス
クラウドたちはセフィロスを倒した。だがセ フィロスの肉体は滅んでも、精神はライフス トリームの流れに拡散することなく復活の気 配を見せる。クラウドは精神を飛ばし、セフ ィロスとの完全なる決着をつける。やがてラ イフストリームがクラウドを取り巻き、気が つくとティファの呼ぶ声が聞こえていた。ク ラウドは碧色の流れの中で、セトラが見つけ るという約束の地や、星が出した答えを見た ような気がした。そしてティファとふたり、 懐かしい人たちに、いつの日か会いに行こう と約束する。

View attachment 16551

Which ultimania is this from? Just wondering