SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[pxl_pushr]

Tifa singing about how he took everything from her, but she eventually found that one last piece left in her world aka Cloud. Actually makes total sense.

I just have this picture in my mind of bananas action scenes against Weapons, people flying into Wutai for war time, cryptic Sephiroth lines…

All with this piano piece playing in the background… rearrange Tifa’s theme and add lyrics you cowards!

 

[Ryushikaze]

This is one of the things that makes this whole thing even weirder to me.

It's not exactly common for the FF couples to get as much as Cloud and Tifa have gotten, yet somehow they're not as valid as virtually every other couple in the series.

Yeah, the standards applied to them and only them are ludicrously higher than any other couple. Like, Zell and the Hotdog girl have exactly two fucking scenes together. Selphie is almost constantly fuming at Irvine for being too flirty, but there's no pushback against them.

That was what prompted me to think about it. Though i suppose unless we get actual breedable chocobos for part 3, the races might not really play a part anymore at this point.

I suspect the questline is going to be changed to 'reveal' that Pico is already a legendary Gold Chocobo instead of breeding for one.

Also I am certain that we're going to get Aerith's death in the return to the capital with Cloud clearly remembering her death and bringing it up that while he was messed up he couldn't admit to himself that she was dead, but he can remember her death clearly now.

Maybe this will lead into some metaplot discussion as it's where they learned the white materia was activated in the OG.

 

[Hellenic]

I suspect the questline is going to be changed to 'reveal' that Pico is already a legendary Gold Chocobo instead of breeding for one.

Now that's an interesting idea that i can get behind.

Also I am certain that we're going to get Aerith's death in the return to the capital with Cloud clearly remembering her death and bringing it up that while he was messed up he couldn't admit to himself that she was dead, but he can remember her death clearly now.

Yeah ultimately i think this is the best place to show the proper death to Cloud.

 

[eleamaya]

What if the Aerith death reveal isn’t even a big moment? Would that be bad? Genuinely asking as I don’t have much attachment to Aerith’s death scene for a few reasons:

1. I’ve known of her death forever.
2. I didn’t play the OG so I don’t have the shock/nostalgia factor
3. Because I knew she died it stopped me from getting attached to her character

So what if it’s a similar moment to how Cloud halfway remembers Zack? Granted, Aerith’s death is more heavy since Cloud is right there and feels he should have been able to save her. Would that make you OG players/ Aerith fans upset?

It’s just that, as far as I know in OG, didn’t they kind of make them move right on along after the death?

Nomura has answered this, similarly to the twist of Cloud's identity, assuming everyone has known about Zack; so he creates a new sense of mystery around him. As for the twist of Aerith's death, assuming everyone wouldn't be shocked the same way, so he creates the sense of hardly accepting the reality.... though, personally, I think it works only on Cleriths shippers.

 

[null]

As a guy, and I do think this is still largely dependent on the individual so it may not apply to other guys… I do like women who are forward like Aerith but there are still some boundaries that I think she crosses that I might not be happy with.

However, the same is kinda true of Tifa, I’m also attracted to her personality type so… I dunno.

Yeah, it’s subjective. I think forward is usually a pretty good look on a woman, and one big reason is that it takes away the guesswork, which is a huge relief for a guy. Now having said that, being forward while sending crazy mixed signals kinda defeats the purpose. Quite the opposite, it amplifies the crazy mixed signals.

Like taking a man’s arm. This is a power move if done correctly - it’s flattering to be claimed by a pretty lady. Do it quietly and casually, and now there’s an unspoken sensual chemistry happening between the two, and he’s confident in making the next move. The incorrect thing to do, I think, is pounce on his arm while making a scene, refuse to let go when he tries to pull it away, and smirk while everyone else is flustered and/or annoyed. A textbook crazy mixed signal. Now he feels ambushed, trapped and nervous.

Anyway, I can’t speak for all guys either but Rebirth Aerith would drive me personally less crazy if she dialed the teasing waaaay back and relied more on body language than physical contact. Capitalize on that forward lean. It’s iconic and pretty darn kawaii. Even Tifa can’t pull it off quite like her.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Another thing - What do we think part 3's theme song will be about? Who will it be about or based on?

What about a Tifa song about filling a hollow heart?

What if the Aerith death reveal isn’t even a big moment? Would that be bad? Genuinely asking as I don’t have much attachment to Aerith’s death scene for a few reasons:

1. I’ve known of her death forever.
2. I didn’t play the OG so I don’t have the shock/nostalgia factor
3. Because I knew she died it stopped me from getting attached to her character

So what if it’s a similar moment to how Cloud halfway remembers Zack? Granted, Aerith’s death is more heavy since Cloud is right there and feels he should have been able to save her. Would that make you OG players/ Aerith fans upset?

It’s just that, as far as I know in OG, didn’t they kind of make them move right on along after the death?

I’m not very familiar with OG, but I think someone says they go back to the place she died? I think it’d be better to have a scene where Cloud remembers what happened, and then they can all grieve together finally.

I hope my question isn’t rude in any way, I genuinely wanted to know opinions.

To be honest, I didn't feel much about Aerith's death either even though I didn't even know it was going to happen. I think my thoughts went something like this:

1. She died?
2. Oh well, that's depressing. /still thinking that CA was canon
3. Five seconds later as I remember that Cloud's still alive at the end of the game: Wait a damn second.
4. Finding the LTD threads here, lol.

 

[Eerie]

im thinking song will be a tifa song about finding something to fight for and finding missing loved ones and be used for the highwind scene but streamer Philip Hartshorn had a fantastic idea of the highwind being a montage of all the characters on that night with their loved ones then end with the Cloud and Tifa scene, i think the song will be playing while we are seeing this montage

I thought about this last year in my musings lol. I also thought there’s a possibility that Zack and Aerith only reunite at this moment, so take it as you will xD

For Aerith’s death I 100% think like @insanehobbit - for me it has to happen when we go back to the city. With Cloud admitting he thought he managed to save her because he didn’t want to feel guilty about her death.

 

[Stiggie]

It’s unfortunate the women characters get shit on. Aerith is a flirtations backstabbing huzzy and Tifa is a big boobed bimbo somehow.

Wish people who had these toxic views just understand they don’t like the game and move on.

Lets not pretend the men get better treatment, I've seen a bit too much complaints about Cloud being an edgy emo wife abandoning asshole for that.

 

[Sacky]

You can very naturally slot in Cloud/the party remembering Aerith's death to the return to FC. Cloud is already reminiscing about Aerith's death there in the OG, this would merely be an expansion. I'm sure the clear White Materia will be involved somehow too.

Cloud's true self/his memories will have already been restored post-Lifestream. He will no longer be "delusional," per se, he'll have accepted her death, but he still has to confront it when they return to the FC. But again, this is nothing new, this is just following the trajectory of the OG. Anyone who thinks this somehow diminishes Cloud's feelings for Tifa is never going to be convinced anyways, so who fucking cares? lol

This is pretty much how the OG treats Cloud remembering Zack post-Lifestream. Cloud remembers him now, but the memory of his death doesn't come to the fore until they return to Nibelheim.

I just don't understand what Cloud remembering Aerith's death during the Lifestream sequence would solve? Cloud was already delusional before she died (he was delusional before he even met her!), so it'll just restore him to a slightly less delusional state while doing nothing to address the root cause of his mental break? That's a narrative blind alley/waste of time that would actually diminish the impact of her death.

Adding her to the Lifestream sequence makes as much sense as adding her to the Wutai subplot, in that it's certainly something they could do, but why would they? How would this improve upon the OG in any way?

That's what I'm asking when I see all these weird-ass predictions/dooming about the Lifestream and Highwind scenes. They aren't going to make things different just for the sake of being different. Remake/Rebirth has added a lot of new lore to the story, but when it comes to the character-forward moments like Barret/Dyne and Red/Seto, they've been pretty damn faithful.

The way they've handled Aerith's death in Rebirth feels like a pretty significant change, but it also tracks with it being something they had intended all along but lacked the technology to depict in the OG. Meanwhile...if they wanted to have other people in the Lifestream, or if they wanted you to have different partner options for Under the Highwind (lmfao), they obviously could have done so in the OG.

I am always shocked that so many people say Cloud will remember the true Aerith's death in the lifestream sequence. A lot of the big FF7 theory people saying this as well, oddly enough. This doesn't make narrative sense to me because the lifestream sequence is the High point after all the suffering, when Cloud has to learn to accept himself and his weaknesses. But to do that, you must get Cloud past his insecurity about not being strong enough or worthy of Tifa's affection, which Tifa does with the searching for him in the paper dialogue in OG, This will be heavily expanded in part 3 with memories. However point is while Cloud has to accept his insecurity, this is also the dude who felt so guilty at being happy that he got scared of that being taken away. So Cloud learning he did keep the promise is the high part the celebration real Cloud has come back and his personality fixed. So to then show him her death cause if you show Aerith's death beforehand, you aint getting him to accept his insecurity at all; you worsen it. So it would have to be after the nibelhiem event. Aerith showing her own death to Cloud also doesn't help because the person who has died telling you they died would make you go more insane. Tonally though it would turn a celebration scene into a mourning scene and sadness. They might do that but it would be a bad idea. Instead let us go on the Cloud trauma and healing tour afterwards, Going to Nibelhiem he remembers Zack fully now and we see it in the cutscenes and he remembers Zack's death but hes also surrounded and comforted by his friends, then obviously Forgotten capital we see Aeriths death in full, Cloud breaks down and the whole party comfort him.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I am always shocked that so many people say Cloud will remember the true Aerith's death in the lifestream sequence. A lot of the big FF7 theory people saying this as well, oddly enough. This doesn't make narrative sense to me because the lifestream sequence is the High point after all the suffering, when Cloud has to learn to accept himself and his weaknesses. But to do that, you must get Cloud past his insecurity about not being strong enough or worthy of Tifa's affection, which Tifa does with the searching for him in the paper dialogue in OG, This will be heavily expanded in part 3 with memories. However point is while Cloud has to accept his insecurity, this is also the dude who felt so guilty at being happy that he got scared of that being taken away. So Cloud learning he did keep the promise is the high part the celebration real Cloud has come back and his personality fixed. So to then show him her death cause if you show Aerith's death beforehand, you aint getting him to accept his insecurity at all; you worsen it. So it would have to be after the nibelhiem event. Aerith showing her own death to Cloud also doesn't help because the person who has died telling you they died would make you go more insane. Tonally though it would turn a celebration scene into a mourning scene and sadness. They might do that but it would be a bad idea. Instead let us go on the Cloud trauma and healing tour afterwards, Going to Nibelhiem he remembers Zack fully now and we see it in the cutscenes and he remembers Zack's death but hes also surrounded and comforted by his friends, then obviously Forgotten capital we see Aeriths death in full, Cloud breaks down and the whole party comfort him.

I think people are just underestimating how much plot you can fit into one game if there’s no need to add a load of side content.

 

[Eerie]

I think people are just underestimating how much plot you can fit into one game if there’s no need to add a load of side content.

I think people didn’t understand the LS scene and what it meant, why it’s specifically Tifa who has to be there. The fact that it’s not only the scene where he gets pieced back but also a love confession really went above fans’ heads, which is why so many theory bros want to make it a group project. They don’t understand that as the heroine of the internal plot, they are taking away Tifa’s big scene. That this scene is the reason why the line that she was the only one who Cloud opened his heart exists.

 

[Maidenofwar]

If anyone said Aerith was "groping" Cloud by taking his hand to comfort him that's terrible, and the same goes for Tifa too. So much so I was also what groping scene in Gongaga? ???

 

[abzy1200]

They’re coming at it from the angle that Cloud was emotionally vulnerable when Tifa grabbed his hand. So that counts as groping him, apparently.

 

[Eerie]

Groping is SA. Certainly not what Tifa was doing. She was reassuring him (and herself). But then again this person is completely whack, so I’d say don’t pay attention to what she’s saying. I’d worry if that became an argument used by the whole CA fandom.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Some thoughts:

I do think in OG itself Aerith's death treated as an aside because we're supposed to feel the empty spot and the loss and the devs have made that clear. It wasn't this huge Hollywood spectacle and I appreciate that. But in 2024 they were doing all the marketting around her death for them to treat it that way this time.

The truth is if you ask any non fan about Final Fantasy VII what they know about FF7 chances are they'll maybe know some characters names but it's almost guaranteed they'll mention Aerith's death. Whether the devs intended Aerith's death to be as big as it has become or not this is basically the scene the game is known for to the casual audience. It's considered to be one of the most iconic scenes in video game history, whether the talk about it is how people cried or don't get it, or didn't cry or want her to leave, or think it's well done or not the conversation about FF7 always ALWAYS tends to mention this scene in some capacity because it's just so famous. It's very clear SE knows this. To the point I actually got annoyed because the marketting for Rebirth was basically about it too.

I would hope it's not treated like this sensational drama for part 3 but I definitely think they've set up too much in the ending to not dive into it.

I just from my part hope it is it's own section at Icicle Inn. I don't want Aerith anywhere near the LS scene or whatever Tifa focused scenes. I'm actually very adverse to that just as I was adverse to seeing her on the water tower. Aerith is her own character and I don't want or need her to guest star in other characters spotlight or moments.
Same for Zack honestly. If there is a resolution about her death that should definitely be its own thing. I want Aerith's arc to be hers and her death to be hers not some set up for mystery or a deus ex machina.

I think each girl should get their own moments in general too.
And also feeling Aerith's loss is so important because that's why her death had impact. I hope they choose her treat her death respectfully and not have her lingering as a ghost in the background or any of that.

Though the way they basically marketed everything and ended with Schrödinger's Aerith does make me a little concerne. I hope they give the party a moment to come to terms with her death as they're all wearing the ribbon in Advent Children. But I for one would be more okay if they don't have her floating around in the background so there is no abscence felt. The scenes with her if they make them should be seperate . Which is why I agree icicle inn is the best spot to have an interlude about her.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I think people didn’t understand the LS scene and what it meant, why it’s specifically Tifa who has to be there. The fact that it’s not only the scene where he gets pieced back but also a love confession really went above fans’ heads, which is why so many theory bros want to make it a group project. They don’t understand that as the heroine of the internal plot, they are taking away Tifa’s big scene. That this scene is the reason why the line that she was the only one who Cloud opened his heart exists.

Not to mention that Cloud would be mortified to have so many people see into his subconscious.

I think more of the external plot will require Cloud to open up to the others. That will make his leadership moments at the end more satisfying

 

[Purple]

I'm actually very adverse to that just as I was adverse to seeing her on the water tower

I was quite shocked we got a scene with her in the water tower. Granted, it was a scene of her lamenting her lonely childhood but still. That place is sacred for CT imo. It makes me a little skeptical of how the devs will handle part 3, romance wise.

 

[eleamaya]

I was quite shocked we got a scene with her in the water tower. Granted, it was a scene of her lamenting her lonely childhood but still. That place is sacred for CT imo. It makes me a little skeptical of how the devs will handle part 3, romance wise.

This is my HC, but it can help to save that moment if it was used in Part 3.
Zack ever climbed it for 7 wonders of Nibelheim quest in CCFF7. But aside of gameplay, I imagine he idly did that and sat just for curiosity to look the town then Tifa caught that moment and climb too.... From a far, imagine how jealous Cloud is under his infantryman helmet seeing that, hoping it was him who was talking with Tifa IN THAT WATER TOWER AS SOLDIER not Zack

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

They’re coming at it from the angle that Cloud was emotionally vulnerable when Tifa grabbed his hand. So that counts as groping him, apparently.

If they count that as groping then he does it to Tifa a lot.

 

[Eerie]

The truth is if you ask any non fan about Final Fantasy VII what they know about FF7 chances are they'll maybe know some characters names but it's almost guaranteed they'll mention Aerith's death. Whether the devs intended Aerith's death to be as big as it has become or not this is basically the scene the game is known for to the casual audience. It's considered to be one of the most iconic scenes in video game history, whether the talk about it is how people cried or don't get it, or didn't cry or want her to leave, or think it's well done or not the conversation about FF7 always ALWAYS tends to mention this scene in some capacity because it's just so famous.

Tbh I think back then a lot of people didn’t finish FFVII (lots of games were never finished back then). I often feel most stopped at Aerith’s death and didn’t go to the LS scene, which made Aerith’s death the most remembered scene. The fact that there was no FMV for the LS scene also created the idea that it was less important than Aerith’s death, when in truth the LS scene is very LONG. But that definitely created an impact on fans who played that segment.

I was quite shocked we got a scene with her in the water tower. Granted, it was a scene of her lamenting her lonely childhood but still. That place is sacred for CT imo. It makes me a little skeptical of how the devs will handle part 3, romance wise.

I felt that way first but this is not the real Nibelheim, not the real water tower, it happens during the day and the scene in itself is very CT. I consider it as a CT scene personally, but it’s also part of that nagging feeling in Nibelheim that everything is… kinda wrong. Like Tifa playing Aerith’s theme on her piano during her quest. There are a lot of things that feel wrong in Nibelheim.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, for some reason it’s seen as a victory for some CA fans but… the scene pretty much implies Cloud would often go up in the water tower hoping Tifa would wave to him.

Even if you have him deny it, he seems very defensive to the point where it seems he’s embarrassed,

 

[GamerSkull]

If they count that as groping then he does it to Tifa a lot.

It’s only bad when Tifa does it, don’t you know?

But yeah, Cloud constantly touches her. There’s a lot of physical touching between them in Remake too.

But I think that more or less fits the “words aren’t the only way to express your feelings” thing they have going on.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

But yeah, Cloud constantly touches her. There’s a lot of physical touching between them in Remake too.

It's gonna be a while before I play remake considering I just maxed out both my credit cards.

 

[Rin]

Yeah, for some reason it’s seen as a victory for some CA fans but… the scene pretty much implies Cloud would often go up in the water tower hoping Tifa would wave to him.

Even if you have him deny it, he seems very defensive to the point where it seems he’s embarrassed,

Also, if you're trying to romance Aerith the best answer is to have him agree that he used to go up there to be noticed by Tifa, soooo...

It is interesting that the CA watertower moment is really more of a CT moment, similar to when they climb the clocktower in Kalm or have that talk in Junon about the flower. I'm not entirely sure why the devs framed their interactions like that in Rebirth. I mean, I do know why, but at the same time I think it's kinda sad that there's so few moments that are just about Cloud and Aerith.

The scene before they fight the Turks in Corel is nice but I don't really consider it a CA moment since Nanaki was also apart of it, but at least it wasn't a conversation about Tifa. I'm still sad that there's no promise to take Aerith on the Highwind and that the whole convo about it was given to CT. Which, like, again, I understand why (foreshadowing) but it's just like ... Damn lmao. A lot of the iconic CA moments were taken away.

 

[GamerSkull]

Also, if you're trying to romance Aerith the best answer is to have him agree that he used to go up there to be noticed by Tifa, soooo...

It is interesting that the CA watertower moment is really more of a CT moment, similar to when they climb the clocktower in Kalm or have that talk in Junon about the flower. I'm not entirely sure why the devs framed their interactions like that in Rebirth. I mean, I do know why, but at the same time I think it's kinda sad that there's so few moments that are just about Cloud and Aerith.

The scene before they fight the Turks in Corel is nice but I don't really consider it a CA moment since Nanaki was also apart of it, but at least it wasn't a conversation about Tifa. I'm still sad that there's no promise to take Aerith on the Highwind and that the whole convo about it was given to CT. Which, like, again, I understand why (foreshadowing) but it's just like ... Damn lmao. A lot of the iconic CA moments were taken away.

No Cait Sith compatibility fortune either.