SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
They literally have to invent new content for her because it simply doesn't exist in OG. And honestly, we've seen what that's like in Rebirth, which corresponds to a part of OG where her character isn't really developed anymore. Most of Aerith's content was Midgar-related. And I think the fact that some people have a strange feeling about the character, that she's a bit absent and a lot less prominent than in Remake, comes from that. Square Enix didn't really have any material sources left.

Not to mention the fact that we still have a HUGE amount to deal with in the last game... I don't see how her death can be that big an event. We don't have time.

So I think the best way to do it is to keep it under wraps for the most part until Cloud starts to sink. From his point of view, it'll be just one of Sephiroth's many lies, until he sees Tifa's horrified face. Then he disappears. We fix him. And when it's time to return to the city of the ancients, we take the opportunity to revisit the scene as it really happened, with Cloud able to begin mourning now that he's himself.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Maybe they’ll incorporate OTWTAS. When they revisit it in the book Tifa is actually the one who is crying and needs Cloud’s support.

That or, it’s just always an emotional place for them to visit.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Personally, I think Rebirth is already overdoing it with her death. Honestly, I don't want to spend all my time on that again in the last game. It's a defining moment in video game history, sure, but FF7 isn't just about that. Quite the contrary, in fact.

So yes... sorry but we're moving on now.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Personally, I think Rebirth is already overdoing it with her death. Honestly, I don't want to spend all my time on that again in the last game. It's a defining moment in video game history, sure, but FF7 isn't just about that. Quite the contrary, in fact.

So yes... sorry but we're moving on now.
I think it’d be easier to assume they’re just gonna move on if it wasn’t for all the shenanigans at the end.

There’s Nomura saying it’s to depict the denial stage of death but he says that and it doesn’t really make sense with all the life stream rainbows, her waking up, appearing every where. So I don’t know. It’s like they made too much happen for it to just be brushed aside unfortunately.

Maybe they didn’t like the fact that they didn’t give much credence to her death in the original.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I think it’d be easier to assume they’re just gonna move on if it wasn’t for all the shenanigans at the end.

There’s Nomura saying it’s to depict the denial stage of death but he says that and it doesn’t really make sense with all the life stream rainbows, her waking up, appearing every where. So I don’t know. It’s like they made too much happen for it to just be brushed aside unfortunately.

Maybe they didn’t like the fact that they didn’t give much credence to her death in the original.

Denial stage can only exist before the Northern Crater... so... pretty much the introduction of CD2 in OG. So whatever happens, the issue will have to be resolved quickly.

So no, I don't think it plays that big a role. It's not going to be the big focus of the third game. That would be giving too much focus to a dead character. What makes death significant is the absence of the character. If she's there every two seconds, whether in the Lifestream or in Cloud's thoughts, it'll break the whole message of FF7. It's not for nothing that she stays put and doesn't get on a plane with the others. Her role is over for now.
 

Hellenic

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Hellenic
Cloud and Tifa are like, third in line for most established FF main hero couple behind Cecil and Rosa and Nox and Luna, and the only reason Nox and Luna edge them out is because we do have depictions of their hypothetical future children.
This is one of the things that makes this whole thing even weirder to me.

It's not exactly common for the FF couples to get as much as Cloud and Tifa have gotten, yet somehow they're not as valid as virtually every other couple in the series.
 

pxl_pushr

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Pixel
He also needs to be in his right mind post LS though, for the reasons I mentioned. I don't mind it being reviewed and everyone having their time to properly grieve during the revisit. But revealing to him that he's still delusional when he's supposed to have been saved by Tifa would leave a bad taste in my mouth.
He already has a moment in OG where he has to recall Aerith in Cosmo canyon before they return to the FC. Cloud can still recognize that his memory is hazy around it, and go to face it.

Slightly different from being delusional because he’d know his recollection is compromised.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
He already has a moment in OG where he has to recall Aerith in Cosmo canyon before they return to the FC. Cloud can still recognize that his memory is hazy around it, and go to face it.

Slightly different from being delusional because he’d know his recollection is compromised.
Again, his memory being hazy means he wasn't truly saved by Tifa. It's bothering me.

Plus, thematically the LS is about acceptance, so if things were changed to feature Aerith's death alongside everything else it would make some sense in that regard.

Though that raises another issue; it's kinda supposed to be a moment for Cloud and Tifa and their past.

Overall, I'm just very conflicted. No matter where they place the acceptance it will bring atleast one huge negative with it. Which is why I feel like they've backed themselves into a corner.
 

pxl_pushr

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AKA
Pixel
Again, his memory being hazy means he wasn't truly saved by Tifa. It's bothering me.
I guess I just disagree that it harms her efforts at all. Delusional Cloud would insist his recollection is correct or deflect to avoid facing the possible truth ( and the parallel scene will be the NC and Icicle Inn ). Real Cloud post-LS would instead go and see for himself, regardless of whether he remembers correctly or not.

The only reason Cloud is willing to make that choice is because Tifa put him back together right, and will be there to support him if it’s too painful. THAT’s what Tifa gives him, the will to face reality ( aka confront himself ).
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
The only reason Cloud is willing to make that choice is because Tifa put him back together right, and will be there to support him if it’s too painful. THAT’s what Tifa gives him, the will to face reality ( aka confront himself ).
Thank you, this right here gives me a slightly new perspective on this.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
He doesn't need to have hazy memories to accept what happened.

He can still discover the full truth during the NC reveal. When Tifa brings him back, and we know we have to go back to where Aerith died, we can have a little callback of what happened and understand that Cloud is now in full control because he's mourning like everyone else.
 

Hellenic

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Hellenic
After finishing Rebirth, I went back to the OG and started playing the game again just after the events at the Forgotten Capital (effectively playing through all of Part 3’s content, I did the same after Remake too, playing after Midgar up to the ending)

Refreshing myself on all the story moments that happen post FC (Part 3 has a LOT of story left to cover :mon: ) there were several moments where I thought it could be appropriate for an Aerith “interlude”, as I don’t think anyone should pretend Aerith isn’t going to be having a significant presence in Part 3, in whatever capacity, alive, Jenova illusion, Obi-Wan Kenobi, what have you.

I agree with @eleamaya that Icicle Inn is likely to be the earliest opportunity for there to be a natural and organic way of having an Aerith interlude, since it’s where she’s from. Even if we don’t have any such interlude, or even this be the place where the party discuss with Cloud what happened at the altar in FC, Aerith’s presence will be strongly felt in Icicle Inn regardless.

I seriously don’t think they are going to make the Gast and Ifalna videos optional viewing this time around, as not only is there important character work in them, they contain a lot of essential lore (stuff we already know by this point in Rebirth, but that’s not to say Part 3 could use this as an opportunity to illuminate things further).

After that I reckon the entire Northern Cave/Crater sequence is another fairly likely scenario for there to be an interlude, Aerith mention, or for this to be where things about her death come to light.

But also there’s a strong chance this sequence hues more closely to the original, where it’s a majorly important scene for Cloud and Tifa, and their past and relationship. This sequence strongly goes hand in hand with the Lifestream sequence later on, neither can really exist without the other, and there’s already been very heavy foreshadowing and sign posting throughout Remake and Rebirth that we are still very much on this path towards it in the story.

Where I actually think a better place for an Aerith interlude to take place is, right after NC.

Tifa wakes up in Junon, and learns she was in a coma for 7 days. I think it would be worth Tifa herself either having a dream/receiving a vision, of Aerith.

As far as I’m concerned given Cloud and Aerith got to say goodbye seven or so different times, in seven or so different ways during the end sequences of Rebirth, a lot of their relationship dynamic has reached its conclusion, especially as far as this portion of Part 3’s story is concerned.

What is left unresolved, by virtue of nobody else actually getting to say goodbye to Aerith, is her relationships with everyone else. The other people she speaks about in her Cosmo Canyon speech, her song at the Gold Saucer, her monologue in the Temple of the Ancients, and in her final prayer at the altar. But you would easily think that, much like a lot of those who ship Clerith would want everyone else to fervently believe, all Aerith cares about and thinks about is Cloud, at the expense of everyone else. Only by the creative choice to have the final scenes be so laser focused on Cloud and his perspective, to the detriment of Aerith’s own character, whose development and journey as a character is suddenly ignored, much like all the other characters she has been shown to care about and love.

So this is a big thing Part 3 needs to fix. It would be furthering this undoing of all of Aerith’s growth, if all her scenes in Part 3 are continuously in Cloud’s orbit. This has nothing to do with shipping, nor Zack or any of the unresolved pieces of the narrative for their relationship.

This is all about her relationships with the other characters. Especially Tifa, who like in the original, you could strongly argue is the one member of the party she actually grows closest to, and forges a deeper connection and level of understanding than she ever has with Cloud, the man whose real persona she never meets.

So Part 3 desperately needs a Tifa and Aerith scene. Whether that’s a resolution scene, or maybe more likely something that facilitates the Lifestream sequence. I don’t believe Aerith will be involved or even mentioned, as I don’t see them changing how that sequence is all about Cloud and Tifa. But I can see, personally want even, Aerith helping Tifa in some way, even if it’s just advice or guidance or something, whatever feels appropriate.

I also see this being a likely case for Cloud, but instead of Aerith, it should be Zack helping him.

Again I’m not arguing this from a shipping perspective, but from one where I’m looking at all the character developments and relationship dynamics that were thoroughly explored in Rebirth, and seeing what I believe is currently lacking.

To me that is a Tifa and Aerith resolution, and now, more scenes with Cloud and Zack. Zack should be the “spirit guide” to Cloud, not Aerith.

Given how much they’ve already revealed and explored about the twists and reveals of both the NC and Lifestream scenes, I think a strong way of helping to make the Lifestream scenes as impactful, asides from keeping it focused on Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, is also understanding what really does remain unresolved with the other characters. And to me that is Tifa and Aerith, and Cloud and Zack.

For Cloud to regain his identity and real self, he needs Tifa’s help. But if he is also to shed his identification with Zack, he himself would have some aspect or part to play in that. Not Aerith. She doesn’t know the real Cloud, again not to stress that point too much. But she does know Tifa, and is in a much better position (and by the need of narrative, a necessity at this point) to help her than she is Cloud.

So to sum up, I think the time Tifa is in a coma for 7 days is a suitable place and break in the story for there to be a key scene with Aerith.

As for where it feels appropriate for there to be the scene where the full acceptance of Aerith’s passing comes to play, not NC, nor the Lifestream, but to me the return to the Forgotten Capital is where I feel it would best suit.

It’s returning to the place of her death. By this point in the original, at Cosmo Canyon, they each all remembered Aerith, so maybe the scenes there in Part 3 could actually be where this moment of acceptance comes into place, thus leading them to return to the FC. Because it’s also here where the full understanding of Holy, Aerith’s prayer, and her sacrifice comes into narrative focus, so again it’s both a natural and organic way for Aerith herself to come into focus too.

As to whether that’s in the form of another interlude with her, it’s all still speculation.

And this is just talking about places in the main narrative where it feels likely for these moments to occur. This isn’t even going into Zack’s ongoing side story that will continuously bleed more I reckon into the main story, and I’m not going to go over the same points I’ve made before about how obviously they’ve made the foreshadowing for Aerith and Zack’s reunion in Part 3.
All of this 100% yes. Now you're just getting my hopes up with these ideas.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
  • Sephiroth shows us how Aerith's murder really happened. Cloud denies everything, then starts to doubt and sink when he sees that Tifa is terrified.
  • We meet up with Cloud in Mideel until the fall into the Mako.
  • The LS scene takes place as in OG (moments between Cloud and Tifa only).
  • When he's himself again and we have to go back through the city, he can recall the moment when he drops Aerith in the water.

He has all his memories at that moment. The game just replays the scene to show us that he's thinking about what happened now that he's back there.

So you can replay the scene without diminishing Tifa's help. He knows everything. But now he accepts it.
 

Hellenic

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Hellenic
Don’t you know how holding hands is dirty?! Well when it’s Tifa it’s groping (yes it was about the bedroom Gongaga scene, LOL). After all Aerith did it first in Remake but it’s ok since it’s Aerith.
Here i thought that alluded to groping the private parts somehow, but just grabbing the hand huh. Anything goes for Aerith but nothing is fine with Tifa as per usual i see.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Here i thought that alluded to groping the private parts somehow, but just grabbing the hand huh. Anything goes for Aerith but nothing is fine with Tifa as per usual i see.

So no, because now we have to celebrate the fact that Aerith didn't exchange a kiss with Cloud. Because Aerith would never have dared take advantage of Cloud's unstable state, that's why she refused. Of course, that fat slut Tifa jumped at the chance like the narcissistic pervert she is.

We're so lucky Aerith knows exactly who the Real Cloud is and when to grab the moment to do it.
 

pxl_pushr

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Pixel
I may die alone on this hill, but I'm going to say it anyway: Aerith's death in OG isn't that big a deal. In the sense that it's sudden, quick, and you don't really believe it actually happened.

Cloud is shocked. Sure, but he immediately accepts what happened. And once they've buried her... she's hardly mentioned again. And we've only just finished CD1 of the 3 available (even if CD3 is mainly there to contain the end cutscenes).

I mean no disrespect to Aerith's die-hard fans... but she's just an "aside" in OG.

Which is why I'm not even sure it plays a big part in the last game. I think her farewell to the group is real and that her new presence will only be to develop what's going on with Zack or developing her fight with Sephiroth in the Lifestream.
I actually bend in this direction myself. Back when I first played FF7 original, her death itself didn’t really hit me that hard. Partially because I thought she’d get a revive by story’s end.

How the other characters reacted, however, hit me harder. Tifa in particular. Even with the blocky polygons, they still managed to show how much Tifa cared. The tender way she stroked her cheek and when she turns and runs, clearly breaking down into tears. Perfection.

But then they started going into lore about Jenova being found in the Northern Crater and I was over it. That and the fire and ice boss kicked my ass.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
You can very naturally slot in Cloud/the party remembering Aerith's death to the return to FC. Cloud is already reminiscing about Aerith's death there in the OG, this would merely be an expansion. I'm sure the clear White Materia will be involved somehow too.

Cloud's true self/his memories will have already been restored post-Lifestream. He will no longer be "delusional," per se, he'll have accepted her death, but he still has to confront it when they return to the FC. But again, this is nothing new, this is just following the trajectory of the OG. Anyone who thinks this somehow diminishes Cloud's feelings for Tifa is never going to be convinced anyways, so who fucking cares? lol

This is pretty much how the OG treats Cloud remembering Zack post-Lifestream. Cloud remembers him now, but the memory of his death doesn't come to the fore until they return to Nibelheim.

I just don't understand what Cloud remembering Aerith's death during the Lifestream sequence would solve? Cloud was already delusional before she died (he was delusional before he even met her!), so it'll just restore him to a slightly less delusional state while doing nothing to address the root cause of his mental break? That's a narrative blind alley/waste of time that would actually diminish the impact of her death.

Adding her to the Lifestream sequence makes as much sense as adding her to the Wutai subplot, in that it's certainly something they could do, but why would they? How would this improve upon the OG in any way?

That's what I'm asking when I see all these weird-ass predictions/dooming about the Lifestream and Highwind scenes. They aren't going to make things different just for the sake of being different. Remake/Rebirth has added a lot of new lore to the story, but when it comes to the character-forward moments like Barret/Dyne and Red/Seto, they've been pretty damn faithful.

The way they've handled Aerith's death in Rebirth feels like a pretty significant change, but it also tracks with it being something they had intended all along but lacked the technology to depict in the OG. Meanwhile...if they wanted to have other people in the Lifestream, or if they wanted you to have different partner options for Under the Highwind (lmfao), they obviously could have done so in the OG.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Regarding Aerith’s death interrupting Cloud and Tifa’s moments/being used in the debate…

I honestly think there’s no point in considering what will make certain people accept Cloud and Tifa. Some people will spin anything out of anything- obviously shown in the last few takes going around.

At the least, I think the more extreme crowd will just look more silly when they try to deny it. I don’t see anything wrong with shipping Cloud and Aerith, but denying Cloud and Tifa love each other is just not true.
 

Hellenic

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Hellenic
I prefer Tifa and Cloud because of the story and i like the empathetic nature and how they both save each other, and how we have a timeline of their early lives to young adults. Theres also the whole returns after thinking they would never meet again angle, and mutually pining after each other which creates fun story stuff. also fun to see a couple in media thats like a battle couple always in sync when fighting thats cool, Theres also a lot of angst and issues which make for great development and realistic portrayals of relationships. Aerith my first Remake playthrough i never thought clerith was a thing, I wouldn't have disliked it though However, with Tifa's existence and the way the story is written, focusing on their childhood memories and desire for each other, i really cannot like any other ship for them really. So if Tifa didn't exist, then yeah clerith would be interesting, though i would like there to be more conversations with Cloud asking stuff back and maybe even arguments or disagreements to have some development, the only real angst is her death and Zack sort of, but not really. I like Aerith in Remake i like her but a little less in Rebirth but that's more because i feel she was kind of wasted writing wise to still have way too much focus on Zack and Cloud when Clerith won't even be happening in the endgame. So yeah i think they almost stuck too faithfully to OG with Aerith. They got rid of the love triangle but still kept elements of it yet removed all jealousy as well. Her behaviour can be off-putting; it can be explained by her never leaving the midgar sector 5 slums and not really having any friends, only Zack as her close relationship. No one really tells her that her teasing like that in the Kalm underground is wrong though. so im not the biggest fan of that i understand why she acts like that not my thing though and i don't like how sometimes Clouds personal space is treated as a joke. Cloud in some scenes plays along but in others like the kalm underground he is tugging at her hand to let go it seems. Really its the writing though it feels like while every other characters writing was consistent, Aerith's writing can be all over the place on how she acts or what she says. Amazing in cosmo canyon. Temple, Niblehiem, Forgotten capital. Didn't like her bringing up if jessie was a girlfriend to Cloud while he is trying to say how much he valued her as a friend. Like if Cloud didn't agree to her as a girlfriend then they arent dating Aerith XD no matter what Jessies feelings where.
Yeah i definitely preferred Aerith in Remake to Rebirth too. There they setup some interesting stuff with her memories, but then they decided to scrap it all by having the Whispers take all of her future memories away anyway. So much for that potentially interesting way of tackling her character.

I also didn't quite get why she was trying to push the girlfriend idea of Jessie to Cloud when he clearly stated he didn't feel about her like that? Like it's just a weird take there and probably my least favourite Jessie portrait interaction we get.
 

Hellenic

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Hellenic
I may die alone on this hill, but I'm going to say it anyway: Aerith's death in OG isn't that big a deal. In the sense that it's sudden, quick, and you don't really believe it actually happened.

Cloud is shocked. Sure, but he immediately accepts what happened. And once they've buried her... she's hardly mentioned again. And we've only just finished CD1 of the 3 available (even if CD3 is mainly there to contain the end cutscenes).

I mean no disrespect to Aerith's die-hard fans... but she's just an "aside" in OG.

Which is why I'm not even sure it plays a big part in the last game. I think her farewell to the group is real and that her new presence will only be to develop what's going on with Zack or developing her fight with Sephiroth in the Lifestream.
I do still wanna see the burial at the very least. The fact they omitted some of that stuff does make me think they will show them in the Forgotten Capital return in some form and we get that final proper closure on that.
 
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