SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Defying fate = Create a possibility, a world.

Changing Zack's fate is creating a world where Zack can run free.

I'm not saying he created the concept of Worlds within the Lifestream. I'm saying he's creating new Worlds that suits his desire of a "black lifestream" made of negative human feelings
I actually think he manipulated our Aerith into doing it unintentionally when he showed her Zack's death at the end of the Midgar highway. So, Zack isn't really wrong when he believes the wind was Aerith but he's also not wrong about it having being Sephiroth all along either.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
It's always been a C/T moment if you think about it.
Though I do need to correct you, as her saying the line about finding a girlfriend is during the early days of the nibelheim incident, and she learned of Cloud's ambitions for SOLDIER from Tifa a day or two before Cloud arrived, as that was before her meeting with the player turk in Before Crisis which was a short time before their arrival.
Am I splitting hairs? YES. Is it important to be accurate and precise? Also yes.


No, that makes sense. I suspect the idea that the lifestream creates alternate worlds of possibility that normal just drift away and fizzle or maybe create new worlds is part of the process of the life of a world.


I don't think he's creating them, just subvert them to his own end.
Ultimately, even if the possibility of Aerith surviving exists. It will be in a reality that’s in the Lifestream that Cloud and the party will be forced to let go off.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
Zack think it was Aerith who saved him. But no. It was Sephiroth all along. Why ? To put him in Worlds destined to die (Biggs getting shot/Aerith in a coma etc.) to feed from Zack's rage/anger/sadness/mourning
View attachment 16715

Sephiroth spitting to "destiny's" face and creating Worlds in Remake.
View attachment 16716

Aerith sending a countermeasure (the same who finds Zack when Sephiroth sends him off in Rebirth)
View attachment 16717

That's why the main theme of Rebirth's main visual is : Sephiroth breaking our hero's world.
View attachment 16718

It was always him.
This is why I think the only way to truly beat Sephiroth is to break his will. How do you do that? I dunno, but I kind of like the idea that no matter how much he pushes, the force countering his efforts will exceed him.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I was watching Welonz playthrough today and she got to the ending. She feels that Aerith genuinely confessed. I’m wondering if we’ve interpreted this scene wrong or something, because it makes me think most people took that scene as a confession, I guess.

I’m just second-guessing myself on how the S5 Dream was portrayed.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I actually think he manipulated our Aerith into doing it unintentionally when he showed her Zack's death at the end of the Midgar highway. So, Zack isn't really wrong when he believes the wind was Aerith but he's also not wrong about it having being Sephiroth all along either.

I don't know. I think he manipulated the team to destroy the arbiter of fate, yes.

But I think Omni Aerith is not really ok to go against the planet's will.

When we're in her room in Remake and Red explained to us what the whispers are. She's not saying "we have to do something against them" the first thing she says to us is "Sephiroth is the real enemy, we have to stop him"

I think she respects what the planet have in store for us. So I'm not sure she would try to change Zack's final stand.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I was watching Welonz playthrough today and she got to the ending. She feels that Aerith genuinely confessed. I’m wondering if we’ve interpreted this scene wrong or something, because it makes me think most people took that scene as a confession, I guess.

I’m just second-guessing myself on how the S5 Dream was portrayed.
I have no idea some people think its a confession some people don't. Whatever this even means though considering its a different Aerith entirely
its the one scene im like so what is the point of this why is there a variation in the dialogue? I think the emotional push is really good with Sephiroth coming in but the actual like and Liiiiking what am i supposed to take from this?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Defying fate = Create a possibility, a world.

Changing Zack's fate is creating a world where Zack can run free.

I'm not saying he created the concept of Worlds within the Lifestream. I'm saying he's creating new Worlds that suits his desire of a "black lifestream" made of negative human feelings
I think we basically agree here. You think he's tuning 'existing' tuning potential worlds to his liking, rather than making them whole cloth., basically?

Ultimately, even if the possibility of Aerith surviving exists. It will be in a reality that’s in the Lifestream that Cloud and the party will be forced to let go off.
That's basically what I think is gonna happen anyways with her and Zack.

This is why I think the only way to truly beat Sephiroth is to break his will. How do you do that? I dunno, but I kind of like the idea that no matter how much he pushes, the force countering his efforts will exceed him.
You let him know there's no escape, no reality where Cloud and Co are not there to fight and defeat him, that he can at best delay defeat, not postpone it. Like in Crystal Chronicles Ring of Fate or JoJo's Bizarre adventure part 7.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I have no idea some people think its a confession some people don't. Whatever this even means though considering its a different Aerith entirely
its the one scene im like so what is the point of this why is there a variation in the dialogue? I think the emotional push is really good with Sephiroth coming in but the actual like and Liiiiking what am i supposed to take from this?
Yeah, it’s confusing. That’s why I think there can’t be ambiguity in Part 3. Regardless of CA or CT, the writers need to plainly tell us what these characters feel.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
Yeah, it’s confusing. That’s why I think there can’t be ambiguity in Part 3. Regardless of CA or CT, the writers need to plainly tell us what these characters feel.
The fact there is even a variation in this scene when they said nothing but the gold saucer would be affected by the relationship bonds?,
Then no one even knows what triggers the other tiny variation in dialogue
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
The fact there is even a variation in this scene when they said nothing but the gold saucer would be affected by the relationship bonds?,
Then no one even knows what triggers the other tiny variation in dialogue
I don’t like these mixed signals though. I just hope what they said for Part 3 holds true, just tell me now. I don’t want to wonder what such and such line means.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I think we basically agree here. You think he's tuning 'existing' tuning potential worlds to his liking, rather than making them whole cloth., basically?

Basically worlds within the Lifestream always existed. Even in OG. It's just that we didn't have access to them. It was just the planet "inner simulation" of what could be. She selects what is best to her liking, and her whispers are here to control and make it happen.

And then Sephiroth understood how it worked the moment he's coming in contact with the Lifestream and now try to use it to HIS liking. Now he's the one fucking with the simulation to create a bunch of Worlds he can doom and then re-integrate in his desired "black" lifestream
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I don't know. I think he manipulated the team to destroy the arbiter of fate, yes.

But I think Omni Aerith is not really ok to go against the planet's will.

When we're in her room in Remake and Red explained to us what the whispers are. She's not saying "we have to do something against them" the first thing she says to us is "Sephiroth is the real enemy, we have to stop him"

I think she respects what the planet have in store for us. So I'm not sure she would try to change Zack's final stand.
That's why I said he manipulated her into doing it unintentionally. I don't think she meant to change it or go against the planet, but her desire was too strong and thats why there's a version of her that calls the chihuahua offshoot of Zack's world 'her dream'.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I don’t like these mixed signals though. I just hope what they said for Part 3 holds true, just tell me now. I don’t want to wonder what such and such line means.
i just hope they commit to whatever they decide and stop making these variations or reveal what a character was actually thinking. In a guidebook but only in the second edition of the guidebook 1 year later that has to translated from Japanese. Butchering your storytelling because we want to have a crappy and poorly designed affinity system so players can replay the game aka (watch it on YouTube)
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I just find as I get older, I have less patience for ambiguity. That’s why Part 3 truly needs to end with resolved feelings.
if it doesn't i will forever question every decision in this remake trilogy and wonder what the point of trace of two pasts book delving into the relationship will be. That book will age terribly, advent children will forever be ambigious and unfinished, and il wonder what was the point in investing our time into learning these characters if they aren't confident in their own story decisions so keep making choices.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
That's why I said he manipulated her into doing it unintentionally. I don't think she meant to change it or go against the planet, but her desire was too strong and thats why there's a version of her that calls the chihuahua offshoot of Zack's world 'her dream'.

Maybe yes. It's hard to tell and I'm not even sure we have all the right informations for now.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure the "defying Fate" is a Sephiroth's tag line. It was never the party's intent.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
if it doesn't i will forever question every decision in this remake trilogy and wonder what the point of trace of two pasts book delving into the relationship will be. That book will age terribly, advent children will forever be ambigious and unfinished, and il wonder what was the point in investing our time into learning these characters if they aren't confident in their own story decisions so keep making choices.
To be honest, I think it’s a misstep to do those things if it’s meant to be ambiguous. The better option would have been to downplay Tifa and Cloud’s relationship if Aerith is meant to be the love interest. But… they keep doing the opposite.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
Shipping in Naruto is so strange to me because while Hinata clearly liked Naruto and Sakura clearly liked Sasuke (all the girls did) romance was sooooooo insignificant to the story as far as I remember. I read the manga as it was ongoing so maybe I forgot. But the romance angle was never huge from what I remember.
Everyone was basically slapped together at the very end as per usual with shounens. No real deep developments or anything.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
To be honest, I think it’s a misstep to do those things if it’s meant to be ambiguous. The better option would have been to downplay Tifa and Cloud’s relationship if Aerith is meant to be the love interest. But… they keep doing the opposite.
Thankfully with the games so far apart from this weird variation in dialogue has been making it clear at least to me in the relationships. Zack and Aerith need a reunion or them bringing Zack back was the worst possible thing.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
I'm not even going to bother trying to participate in the theory discussion, lol, but I would like to add that if I can't have my selfish happy ending of Zack and Aerith travelling the planet together alive, I wouldn't be averse to the idea of them travelling the Lifestream worlds together. Partly because I think it would be a hilarious inversion of Sephiroth's goals. :awesome: (Though, I forget if it was in OG or ACC where he wanted to gather the Lifestream and travel the cosmos.)

Shipping in Naruto is so strange to me because while Hinata clearly liked Naruto and Sakura clearly liked Sasuke (all the girls did) romance was sooooooo insignificant to the story as far as I remember. I read the manga as it was ongoing so maybe I forgot. But the romance angle was never huge from what I remember.
This is kind of late (this thread moves fast when it moves!) but you could say that romance was significant in Naruto in the way that it did drive character motivations. But insignificant in the way that the author basically didn't bother with it at all, lol.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Thankfully with the games so far apart from this weird variation in dialogue has been making it clear at least to me in the relationships. Zack and Aerith need a reunion or them bringing Zack back was the worst possible thing.
Yeah, it’s especially cruel to bring him back and make him aware that Aerith and Cloud might be a thing. When before that he was dead and just never knew, so it was never weird.

It’s such a horrible thing to do to a character. Bring him back to life, but then kill him off again but now with the added knowledge that the woman he fought so hard to reunite with now loves his best friend instead.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, it’s especially cruel to bring him back and make him aware that Aerith and Cloud might be a thing. When before that he was dead and just never knew, so it was never weird.

It’s such a horrible thing to do to a character. Bring him back to life, but then kill him off again but now with the added knowledge that the woman he fought so hard to reunite with now loves his best friend instead.
100%

They can give me the most beautiful 69's depiction in 4k in videogame history, if they disrespect my Zack boy in the end, I'll be pissed.

Reunite him with Aerith or riot.
 
Top Bottom