SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

Defying fate = Create a possibility, a world.

Changing Zack's fate is creating a world where Zack can run free.

I'm not saying he created the concept of Worlds within the Lifestream. I'm saying he's creating new Worlds that suits his desire of a "black lifestream" made of negative human feelings

I think we basically agree here. You think he's tuning 'existing' tuning potential worlds to his liking, rather than making them whole cloth., basically?

Ultimately, even if the possibility of Aerith surviving exists. It will be in a reality that’s in the Lifestream that Cloud and the party will be forced to let go off.

That's basically what I think is gonna happen anyways with her and Zack.

This is why I think the only way to truly beat Sephiroth is to break his will. How do you do that? I dunno, but I kind of like the idea that no matter how much he pushes, the force countering his efforts will exceed him.

You let him know there's no escape, no reality where Cloud and Co are not there to fight and defeat him, that he can at best delay defeat, not postpone it. Like in Crystal Chronicles Ring of Fate or JoJo's Bizarre adventure part 7.

 

[GamerSkull]

I have no idea some people think its a confession some people don't. Whatever this even means though considering its a different Aerith entirely
its the one scene im like so what is the point of this why is there a variation in the dialogue? I think the emotional push is really good with Sephiroth coming in but the actual like and Liiiiking what am i supposed to take from this?

Yeah, it’s confusing. That’s why I think there can’t be ambiguity in Part 3. Regardless of CA or CT, the writers need to plainly tell us what these characters feel.

 

[Sacky]

Yeah, it’s confusing. That’s why I think there can’t be ambiguity in Part 3. Regardless of CA or CT, the writers need to plainly tell us what these characters feel.

The fact there is even a variation in this scene when they said nothing but the gold saucer would be affected by the relationship bonds?,
Then no one even knows what triggers the other tiny variation in dialogue

 

[GamerSkull]

That's basically what I think is gonna happen anyways with her and Zack.

As in they’ll both exist together in one world? Or that they’ll be separated again in different worlds?

 

[GamerSkull]

The fact there is even a variation in this scene when they said nothing but the gold saucer would be affected by the relationship bonds?,
Then no one even knows what triggers the other tiny variation in dialogue

I don’t like these mixed signals though. I just hope what they said for Part 3 holds true, just tell me now. I don’t want to wonder what such and such line means.

 

[Ryushikaze]

As in they’ll both exist together in one world? Or that they’ll be separated again in different worlds?

I think the two of them will exist together on a new world

 

[Yoru]

I think we basically agree here. You think he's tuning 'existing' tuning potential worlds to his liking, rather than making them whole cloth., basically?

Basically worlds within the Lifestream always existed. Even in OG. It's just that we didn't have access to them. It was just the planet "inner simulation" of what could be. She selects what is best to her liking, and her whispers are here to control and make it happen.

And then Sephiroth understood how it worked the moment he's coming in contact with the Lifestream and now try to use it to HIS liking. Now he's the one fucking with the simulation to create a bunch of Worlds he can doom and then re-integrate in his desired "black" lifestream

 

[Rin]

I don't know. I think he manipulated the team to destroy the arbiter of fate, yes.

But I think Omni Aerith is not really ok to go against the planet's will.

When we're in her room in Remake and Red explained to us what the whispers are. She's not saying "we have to do something against them" the first thing she says to us is "Sephiroth is the real enemy, we have to stop him"

I think she respects what the planet have in store for us. So I'm not sure she would try to change Zack's final stand.

That's why I said he manipulated her into doing it unintentionally. I don't think she meant to change it or go against the planet, but her desire was too strong and thats why there's a version of her that calls the chihuahua offshoot of Zack's world 'her dream'.

 

[Sacky]

I don’t like these mixed signals though. I just hope what they said for Part 3 holds true, just tell me now. I don’t want to wonder what such and such line means.

i just hope they commit to whatever they decide and stop making these variations or reveal what a character was actually thinking. In a guidebook but only in the second edition of the guidebook 1 year later that has to translated from Japanese. Butchering your storytelling because we want to have a crappy and poorly designed affinity system so players can replay the game aka (watch it on YouTube)

 

[GamerSkull]

I just find as I get older, I have less patience for ambiguity. That’s why Part 3 truly needs to end with resolved feelings.

 

[Sacky]

I just find as I get older, I have less patience for ambiguity. That’s why Part 3 truly needs to end with resolved feelings.

if it doesn't i will forever question every decision in this remake trilogy and wonder what the point of trace of two pasts book delving into the relationship will be. That book will age terribly, advent children will forever be ambigious and unfinished, and il wonder what was the point in investing our time into learning these characters if they aren't confident in their own story decisions so keep making choices.

 

[Yoru]

That's why I said he manipulated her into doing it unintentionally. I don't think she meant to change it or go against the planet, but her desire was too strong and thats why there's a version of her that calls the chihuahua offshoot of Zack's world 'her dream'.

Maybe yes. It's hard to tell and I'm not even sure we have all the right informations for now.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure the "defying Fate" is a Sephiroth's tag line. It was never the party's intent.

 

[GamerSkull]

if it doesn't i will forever question every decision in this remake trilogy and wonder what the point of trace of two pasts book delving into the relationship will be. That book will age terribly, advent children will forever be ambigious and unfinished, and il wonder what was the point in investing our time into learning these characters if they aren't confident in their own story decisions so keep making choices.

To be honest, I think it’s a misstep to do those things if it’s meant to be ambiguous. The better option would have been to downplay Tifa and Cloud’s relationship if Aerith is meant to be the love interest. But… they keep doing the opposite.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Maybe yes. It's hard to tell and I'm not even sure we have all the right informations for now.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure the "defying Fate" is a Sephiroth's tag line. It was never the party's intent.

This. If Sephiroth is nodding when you say “we should do X”, then maybe don’t do X

 

[Hellenic]

Shipping in Naruto is so strange to me because while Hinata clearly liked Naruto and Sakura clearly liked Sasuke (all the girls did) romance was sooooooo insignificant to the story as far as I remember. I read the manga as it was ongoing so maybe I forgot. But the romance angle was never huge from what I remember.

Everyone was basically slapped together at the very end as per usual with shounens. No real deep developments or anything.

 

[Sacky]

To be honest, I think it’s a misstep to do those things if it’s meant to be ambiguous. The better option would have been to downplay Tifa and Cloud’s relationship if Aerith is meant to be the love interest. But… they keep doing the opposite.

Thankfully with the games so far apart from this weird variation in dialogue has been making it clear at least to me in the relationships. Zack and Aerith need a reunion or them bringing Zack back was the worst possible thing.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I'm not even going to bother trying to participate in the theory discussion, lol, but I would like to add that if I can't have my selfish happy ending of Zack and Aerith travelling the planet together alive, I wouldn't be averse to the idea of them travelling the Lifestream worlds together. Partly because I think it would be a hilarious inversion of Sephiroth's goals. (Though, I forget if it was in OG or ACC where he wanted to gather the Lifestream and travel the cosmos.)

Shipping in Naruto is so strange to me because while Hinata clearly liked Naruto and Sakura clearly liked Sasuke (all the girls did) romance was sooooooo insignificant to the story as far as I remember. I read the manga as it was ongoing so maybe I forgot. But the romance angle was never huge from what I remember.

This is kind of late (this thread moves fast when it moves!) but you could say that romance was significant in Naruto in the way that it did drive character motivations. But insignificant in the way that the author basically didn't bother with it at all, lol.

 

[GamerSkull]

Thankfully with the games so far apart from this weird variation in dialogue has been making it clear at least to me in the relationships. Zack and Aerith need a reunion or them bringing Zack back was the worst possible thing.

Yeah, it’s especially cruel to bring him back and make him aware that Aerith and Cloud might be a thing. When before that he was dead and just never knew, so it was never weird.

It’s such a horrible thing to do to a character. Bring him back to life, but then kill him off again but now with the added knowledge that the woman he fought so hard to reunite with now loves his best friend instead.

 

[Yoru]

Yeah, it’s especially cruel to bring him back and make him aware that Aerith and Cloud might be a thing. When before that he was dead and just never knew, so it was never weird.

It’s such a horrible thing to do to a character. Bring him back to life, but then kill him off again but now with the added knowledge that the woman he fought so hard to reunite with now loves his best friend instead.

100%

They can give me the most beautiful 69's depiction in 4k in videogame history, if they disrespect my Zack boy in the end, I'll be pissed.

Reunite him with Aerith or riot.

 

[Ryeleigh]

It’s such a horrible thing to do to a character. Bring him back to life, but then kill him off again but now with the added knowledge that the woman he fought so hard to reunite with now loves his best friend instead.

You know, I never did get a reply to the question of what the devs are doing with Zack then if he isn't going to get a reunion with Aerith, lol. I wonder if we scared pringlessingles off?

 

[GamerSkull]

You know, I never did get a reply to the question of what the devs are doing with Zack then if he isn't going to get a reunion with Aerith, lol. I wonder if we scared pringlessingles off?

The problem is Zack’s only arc that’s left is figuring out where he stands with Aerith. Maybe some Cloud closure too but that’s it.

He’s going to show up in Part 3 for sure. So they need actually satisfyingly close that arc off.

 

[null]

I don't really agree. Natsuo is legit gaslighted to leave Rui because "Hina made sacrifices you know". I'm sorry but it's just ass and a terrible plot twist. It never was forshadowed. Kei just decided to subvert expectations for her own vision of "Romantic love". But whatever, we're not here to discuss that.

I still think it won't happen in FF7, because they're just telling the same story. Just expanding it. We're on the same rails. I don't see why they would change Cloud character and motivation in life "just because".

Natsuo wasn’t gaslit by anyone, and it had nothing to do with guilt or sacrifices. If he knew at any point that Hina was still in love with him and was lying to protect him, he would have gone straight back to her. It’s not the first time he’s left Rui behind to run to her. For her part, Rui ghosted Natsuo once over Hina, then again after he got stabbed, then dumped him at his low point when he had writer’s block. Every time because she was guilty and insecure, just like the final one. Rui leaving Natsuo was foreshadowed the entire story.

You’re right this isn’t the place for this, and I’m not going to harp on it further here. I’m only bothering because the author gets way too much harassment over something she did a mostly good job with. There’s a mountain of buildup that gets handwaved by people calling it nonsense. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you defend the FFVII team for similar reasons.

As far as FFVII, in terms of counting chickens before they hatch, it’s less about characterization and more about confirmation. People want this debate confirmed dead, bagged, tagged, killed with fire with absolutely no room to continue. I think we’re in a better place now than ever for that confirmation to happen. But I’m not celebrating until I actually see it happen in my living room.

 

[GamerSkull]

Natsuo wasn’t gaslit by anyone, and it had nothing to do with guilt or sacrifices. If he knew at any point that Hina was still in love with him and was lying to protect him, he would have gone straight back to her. It’s not the first time he’s left Rui behind to run to her. For her part, Rui ghosted Natsuo once over Hina, then again after he got stabbed, then dumped him at his low point when he had writer’s block. Every time because she was guilty and insecure, just like the final one. Rui leaving Natsuo was foreshadowed the entire story.

You’re right this isn’t the place for this, and I’m not going to harp on it further here. I’m only bothering because the author gets way too much harassment over something she did a mostly good job with. There’s a mountain of buildup that gets handwaved by people calling it nonsense. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you defend the FFVII team for similar reasons.

As far as FFVII, in terms of counting chickens before they hatch, it’s less about characterization and more about confirmation. People want this debate confirmed dead, bagged, tagged, killed with fire with absolutely no room to continue. I think we’re in a better place now than ever for that confirmation to happen. But I’m not celebrating until I actually see it happen in my living room.

Yeah. I’m not 100% convinced until Part 3 confirms it. Until then, all I can be is optimistic but cautious and prepared to be dissapointed.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Natsuo wasn’t gaslit by anyone, and it had nothing to do with guilt or sacrifices. If he knew at any point that Hina was still in love with him and was lying to protect him, he would have gone straight back to her. It’s not the first time he’s left Rui behind to run to her. For her part, Rui ghosted Natsuo once over Hina, then again after he got stabbed, then dumped him at his low point when he had writer’s block. Every time because she was guilty and insecure, just like the final one. Rui leaving Natsuo was foreshadowed the entire story.

You’re right this isn’t the place for this, and I’m not going to harp on it further here. I’m only bothering because the author gets way too much harassment over something she did a mostly good job with. There’s a mountain of buildup that gets handwaved by people calling it nonsense. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you defend the FFVII team for similar reasons.

As far as FFVII, in terms of counting chickens before they hatch, it’s less about characterization and more about confirmation. People want this debate confirmed dead, bagged, tagged, killed with fire with absolutely no room to continue. I think we’re in a better place now than ever for that confirmation to happen. But I’m not celebrating until I actually see it happen in my living room.

That’s what decades of SE being weird about what should be pretty straightforward will do.

I see a kiss between Cloud and Tifa, feel like we’re finally just going for it… but whisper in the back of my mind still says “they will always leave room for doubt”

 

[GamerSkull]

That’s what decades of SE being weird about what should be pretty straightforward will do.

I see a kiss between Cloud and Tifa, feel like we’re finally just going for it… but whisper in the back of my mind still says “they will always leave room for doubt”

It’s amazing that it’s gotten so bad that even a kiss isn’t enough to seal the deal.