SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

During the ending, one of the things that stood out to me was Aerith having Cloud commit to taking care of Sephiroth (esp when she told Cloud to do the opposite in the Sleeping Forest). The Aerith that appears after the AC-esque CA scene was unsettling due to her body language and facial expressions, it didn't feel natural.

That's exactly the part of the scene and the line that makes me go "this is not Aerith. This is a Jenova trick. Aerith wouldn't want him to go after Sephiroth, not in this state."

At least when they talk, this is not Aerith. I suspect that when we see Cloud paying attention to her, it's not Aerith, but when he's not looking/not onscreen, then it's Aerith (for the whole scene).

 

[imach0c0]

That's exactly the part of the scene and the line that makes me go "this is not Aerith. This is a Jenova trick. Aerith wouldn't want him to go after Sephiroth, not in this state."

At least when they talk, this is not Aerith. I suspect that when we see Cloud paying attention to her, it's not Aerith, but when he's not looking/not onscreen, then it's Aerith (for the whole scene).

Yea, I think there is a mix of Jenova!Aerith and real!Aerith because of how the camera cuts between Cloud's POV and the player's POV when Aerith is there/not there.

I think the one that says goodbye in the end is real!Aerith because of the how its shot with the reunion flowers in the distance.

The Aerith that interacts with RedXIII I am not sure about as I can see it going both ways. I'm inclined to think its real!Aerith due to her sad expression. But it could be Jenova!Aerith, if she is trying to play tricks on him too.

Also, the way she does the "call up smoke" pose feels mechanical. Its interesting she does it twice - once under the Tiny Bronco and then with Cloud.

 

[Eerie]

There's this thing that is: Cloud cannot see the real Aerith, because she's dead and they're not in the Lifestream (I think showing herself to him happens later, when she has a better grasp of her powers, right now she's still very close from our Aerith in Rebirth). So every time he's seen Aerith since the bizarre lake scene, it's not her he's seen.

Which means, every time Cloud "sees" Aerith in the last scene, it's not her. So who is it? Well we know he's being manipulating by a certain alien... it has to be Jenova, and if you look closely at the lake scene then it makes even more sense: Tifa nearly brings him back just with a sigh, and Jenova can't have that so she makes him see Aerith to keep her hold onto him.

This is why every time Cloud sees Aerith in the last scene, it's not her. He can't see her and we clearly see Aerith "disappearing" from where she was right when Cloud does not look. He looks again? She's there again.

The only time when I think it should be Aerith is when we see Aerith but we don't see Cloud and he's not paying attention to her. So with Yuffie and with Red and Tifa: she is telling them goodbye. And last of course when the Tiny Bronco flies away, of course it's her too.

But whenever he looks at her and when they chat goodbye? Yeah it's not her. It's a personality based on who Cloud thought Aerith was and his memories of her, which is why the scene begins with a good callback to the park CA scene but then ends up distorted. Jenova was ready to go but Cloud thought Aerith would want to know he's going after Sephiroth: Jenova jumps on the occasion because yes, she wants him to "reunite" with Sephiroth, but it also shows the clear disconnect between Cloud's idea of Aerith and the real Aerith. There are some parts of her he grasps quite well, and others he just doesn't understand - nor did make the effort to understand while she was alive. I think this is also part of his guilt.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Something Kitase said was he/they were aware of players not continuing the game after losing Aerith, so I wonder if they are going to do anything with that.

I also thought it was interesting when asked what their favourite Cloud and Aerith scenes were both Kitase and Hamaguchi said the sky and roof scenes.

"My best friend Zack, and my precious Aerith ..." should surprise nobody except real antis/trolls that think Cloud really hates/loathes Aerith and really can't stand to be around her hardly.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Something Kitase said was he/they were aware of players not continuing the game after losing Aerith, so I wonder if they are going to do anything with that.

I also thought it was interesting when asked what their favourite Cloud and Aerith scenes were both Kitase and Hamaguchi said the sky and roof scenes.

"My best friend Zack, and my precious Aerith ..." should surprise nobody except real antis/trolls that think Cloud really hates/loathes Aerith and really can't stand to be around her hardly.

Just to note, Zack is also referred to as Taisetsunahito - in another quote, but also alongside Aerith- which I think was done precisely to put the two of them on the same level so people would understand Aerith is precious to him in the same way that Zack is.

 

[Rin]

The Dirge of Cerberus character sheet/guide also describes Zack and Aerith as Cloud's "best friends" who sacrificed their lives for him. I would assume 'best friends' is translated from the same 'Taisetsunahito' term.

Something Kitase said was he/they were aware of players not continuing the game after losing Aerith, so I wonder if they are going to do anything with that.

The chances of Aerith NOT being playable to some degree in part 3 seem very slim. She never got her strongest weapon (Princess guard) or her strongest limit break (Great Gospel) and she canonically needs to obtain the latter to heal the children and Cloud in Advent Children.

 

[Sacky]

Something Kitase said was he/they were aware of players not continuing the game after losing Aerith, so I wonder if they are going to do anything with that.

I also thought it was interesting when asked what their favourite Cloud and Aerith scenes were both Kitase and Hamaguchi said the sky and roof scenes.

"My best friend Zack, and my precious Aerith ..." should surprise nobody except real antis/trolls that think Cloud really hates/loathes Aerith and really can't stand to be around her hardly.

They kinda have written themselves into a wall with this. They have teased Aerith having some form of playtime in part 3 doing something. But they also need her to not be in it too much or impact of loss is gone, but also other characters lose development if she gets more Who desperately need it like Vincent and Cid. So i would guess they have a Aerith Zack interlude but for 1 chapter or something?

 

[Eerie]

Something Kitase said was he/they were aware of players not continuing the game after losing Aerith, so I wonder if they are going to do anything with that.

We're definitely going to see Aerith, just like Zack in Rebirth. We need to see her reunion with him, which should make a lot of Aerith fans happy, and we need to see what she does to help the team on the other side too.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Speaking of ZA reunion, lol, I want to see a parallel of their first meeting in Crisis Core, when Zack defeated the hedgehogs outside the church. But this time Aerith would be the one to defeat the monsters and Zack would be all, "you're amazing!" Manifesting from the universe and the devs...

 

[GamerSkull]

Speaking of ZA reunion, lol, I want to see a parallel of their first meeting in Crisis Core, when Zack defeated the hedgehogs outside the church. But this time Aerith would be the one to defeat the monsters and Zack would be all, "you're amazing!" Manifesting from the universe and the devs...

I want Zack to say "So pretty" and Aerith responding with "the face?"

"Depends on the angle...."

 

[pxl_pushr]

We're definitely going to see Aerith, just like Zack in Rebirth. We need to see her reunion with him, which should make a lot of Aerith fans happy, and we need to see what she does to help the team on the other side too.

You really don’t have to dedicate very much time to establish what Aerith is up to in the LS inbetween plot points. I can see it primarily being info and lore with a few combat sections to hold attention. “Following the flowers” at it were.

I can see a ZA reunion by the time Weapons are activated and then you can show how that impacts the LS from their perspective. Stuff like that.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I believe Nomura mentioned in an interview (Game Informer) that he wanted to explore the denialism aspect of loss and the struggles to overcome that.

Oooh I hadn't seen that! I'm a late arrival and all I saw when I went online was stuff like "see? Aerith is gonna live in part 3 for sure", "wow I can't bekieve they're fucking up their own plot this badly" or "I can't believe squeenix can't even commit to whether or not they want to kill Aerith" and that was surprising to me bc I felt it was very obvious what they were going for thematically

The implosion is gonna be pretty big it seems.

I wonder what the cope will be when it finally comes.

"I can't believe they gave into Cloti shippers #notmyFF7 only the OG is canon!!!" they already deny Crisis Core they'll deny tgis trilogy too

Unrelated but somebody dug up an old tweet from Vincent's VA saying Tifa is his favorite, which isn't very surprising but still nice to have yet another cast member on the Tifa loving train

 

[Ryushikaze]

Oooh I hadn't seen that! I'm a late arrival and all I saw when I went online was stuff like "see? Aerith is gonna live in part 3 for sure", "wow I can't bekieve they're fucking up their own plot this badly" or "I can't believe squeenix can't even commit to whether or not they want to kill Aerith" and that was surprising to me bc I felt it was very obvious what they were going for thematically

"I can't believe they gave into Cloti shippers #notmyFF7 only the OG is canon!!!" they already deny Crisis Core they'll deny tgis trilogy too

Unrelated but somebody dug up an old tweet from Vincent's VA saying Tifa is his favorite, which isn't very surprising but still nice to have yet another cast member on the Tifa loving train

I mean, have you seen Marisha Ray?

Marisha Ray Photos

Pictures

www.marisharay.com

 

[Shadowstorm]

I mean, have you seen Marisha Ray?

Marisha Ray Photos

Pictures

www.marisharay.com

Oh, I have. Marisha is the main reason it's not surpising hahaha. Of course her husband is a Tifa lover look at her!

 

[eleamaya]

But I haven't seen any scenes in the ReTrilogy where Aerith senses Cloud's loneliness and is the one to comfort him.

Does Cloud feel lonely? In AC, the premise of his loneliness is "the happier he is, the more lonely he is." And we know the reason why.
But Cloud's childhood is different from Aerith although from an angle, it looks similar: they dont have friends. Aerith really feels lonely because she want to have friends, she doesnt wanna be seen as a freak girl or even a special one--she wanna be a normal girl like the others. Cloud is someone whose personality is "doesnt want many friends". People with this personality exist in real life, as introvert they can be; I've met several ones and ask an extrovert like me "why do you wanna have many friend?" Cloud is the one who reject the boys because he feels superior towards them, also because he's jealous of them playing with Tifa. Yes, Cloud's inferiority just raises when he failed to be SOLDIER. But, he's like Sephiroth who feels he's special and better than the other. Cloud has a little bit arrogance in him. The journey open up Cloud that having many friends he care for isn't that bad; lowering his ego. As for Aerith, the journey blesses her with many friends care for her she never had before. So no, Cloud doesnt feel what Aerith feels of loneliness. They are opposite. But this doesn't mean he doesnt catch her being lonely few times (heck, even Aerith herself has a speech in Cosmo Canyon) and care for her.

“Two lonely people find common ground and seek comfort in each other”

Nah, this is what Aerith JP VA said in CCFF7 Reunion interview: "both Zack and Aerith are similar that behind their bright personality, lies a loneliness they both carry; something that perhaps resonates in Aerith" The moment Aerith saw Zack crying, I'm sure she is empathize with him about losing someone they love. Empathy. Though if I may interpret, what cause their loneliness despite losing the loved one is the big burden they carry and face it alone. One of CCFF7 OST is "The burdened" and it's played in the church when Zack spent time with Aerith.

"What does I fight for?" This is Zack's words that screams his loneliness. He fight alone and don't share that.
People may fail to see how lonely Zack can be because of his bright personality. But Kunsel even catch it, according to one of his email to Zack that he offered Zack to talk to him about everything that wear him down. But to Zack, only Aerith who can heal him. Nomura said Zack always goes to the church to look for healing.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Does Cloud feel lonely? In AC, the premise of his loneliness is "the happier he is, the more lonely he is." And we know the reason why.
But Cloud's childhood is different from Aerith although from an angle, it looks similar: they dont have friends. Aerith really feels lonely because she want to have friends, she doesnt wanna be seen as a freak girl or even a special one--she wanna be a normal girl like the others. Cloud is someone whose personality is "doesnt want many friends". People with this personality exist in real life, as introvert they can be; I've met several ones and ask an extrovert like me "why do you wanna have many friend?" Cloud is the one who reject the boys because he feels superior towards them, also because he's jealous of them playing with Tifa. Yes, Cloud's inferiority just raises when he failed to be SOLDIER. But, he's like Sephiroth who feels he's special and better than the other. Cloud has a little bit arrogance in him. The journey open up Cloud that having many friends he care for isn't that bad; lowering his ego. As for Aerith, the journey blesses her with many friends care for her she never had before. So no, Cloud doesnt feel what Aerith feels of loneliness. They are opposite. But this doesn't mean he doesnt catch her being lonely few times (heck, even Aerith herself has a speech in Cosmo Canyon) and care for her.


Nah, this is what Aerith JP VA said in CCFF7 Reunion interview: "both Zack and Aerith are similar that behind their bright personality, lies a loneliness they both carry; something that perhaps resonates in Aerith"
"What does I fight for?" People may fail to see how lonely Zack can be because of his bright personality. But Kunsel even catch it, according to one of his email to Zack that he offered Zack to talk to him about everything that wear him down.

He pretty much spells out in Nibelheim he didn't actually enjoy being alone though. Speaking as an introvert myself there is a big difference between not wanting a lot of friends and not wanting any at all. His isolation was largely his own doing, and he did feel superior to the other boys but that doesn't mean he didn't feel lonely. The difference between him and Aerith is that she's more self-aware of this feeling and will do something about it when she can. Cloud has a lot more personal hang-ups he has to work through but it's clear it means a lot to him when other people do make that effort to include him even if he pretends otherwise imo.

This is of course talking about FF7/FFR itself instead of AC. His situation obviously changed over the years

 

[eleamaya]

]

His isolation was largely his own doing

And with this, how Aerith is supposed to feel empathy? She is isolated her whole life before going out of Midgar. If someone then feel regret he was now lonely because he had reject them all, how can it be similar to Aerith who feel lonely because of rejection? How can she sense his loneliness when he isn't lonely anymore in the group when they are in journey together? Though, if she sensed it, she would simpathize.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Each party member has something that can relate directly to Cloud. Aerith’s is that sense of loneliness, of wanting more connections but something being in the way. In her case, it was her circumstances and part of her lineage making her different/“weird” to other kids. In Cloud’s case, it was a mixture of social awkwardness and probably not fully understanding the jealousy he felt over Tifa.

You can pretty easily go down the list and find something for each character, even more so in ReTrilogy. Yuffie and Reeve are a little tougher to do that with so far, but there’s still more to tell for them.

So I think the idea with Cloud and Aerith is that they have common ground where he seems more willing to open up with her, or at least he’s more receptive to her attempts to grow their bond.

I honestly do think the early chapters in Remake were added to reveal how Cloud, in his current state of mind, handles people: if he smells bullshit, he’ll stonewall you. If he senses you’re being genuine, then he’ll soften up because he can’t help it.

 

[Shadowstorm]

]
And with this, how Aerith is supposed to feel empathy? She is isolated her whole life before going out of Midgar. If someone then feel regret he was now lonely because he had reject them all, how can it be similar to Aerith who feel lonely because of rejection? How can she sense his loneliness when he isn't lonely anymore in the group when they are in journey together? Though, if she sensed it, she would simpathize.

The Cloud that Aerith meets in Midgar is not yet the Cloud that has made close friends from later in the story. He's on his way there, at least in Remake, but at that point he is still a pretty lonely guy that just won't admit that to himself. And why wouldn't she feel empathy? A similar feeling that comes from a different place is still a similar feeling. Aerith may be a bit self-centered and even resentful at times but she's still gonna feel for the guy.

She just isn't gonna have a heart-to-heart about it's either, that's not how she is. Her teasing and strong-arming him into spending time with her is how she helps him. I do think she can take it too far but in the end it's clear that Cloud cares for her so I think it's safe to assume this is mostly appreciated.

 

[eleamaya]

Question, can I check if Zack has ever been described as a 'taisetsuna hito'(?), or has it just been Aerith?

Zack is also Aerith's "taisetsu na hito" according to Nomura.
One Clerith was mad at me for translating the passage like this on Twitter "To Aerith, the sky symbolize sadness. The man she loves (taisetsu na hito), Zack, and her mother, Ifalna, are both taken to the sky." I dunno the heck the producer refers to that scene as his Cloud & Aerith's favorite moment when the director said her line referred to Zack, Ifalna, Shinra's plate, and Jenova.
I think, to translate it "romantic or not" always depends on context. It can be endless debate since EN is low context and JP is high context.

 

[Ryushikaze]

You can pretty easily go down the list and find something for each character, even more so in ReTrilogy. Yuffie and Reeve are a little tougher to do that with so far, but there’s still more to tell for them.

Yuffie "It's my fault that I failed and my friend died, also vehicles equal HURK"
Reeve- "I also put on a persona to face the world."

 

[Shadowstorm]

I strongly reccomend watching Yuffie and Cloud's responses to Sonon and Zack back to back. The paralels are strong there.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Actually Cloud and Aerith relate more on childhood than Aerith and Zack iirc from the Rebirth quests/lore Zack was a popular/admired guy.

There's a follow up in Rebirth where the party is having a joke at Vincent/Cloud's expense (they're not being deliberately mean/cruel), and Aerith, and Cloud, seem less amused. Something they can relate to a bit with Vincent as well maybe.

Remake/Rebirth expands more on the sky from previous, I'm sure they probably just meant something cryptic like "sky" shenanigans and the rifts that linked to other CA event, hell for all I know maybe even Zack, and Jenova were part of the answer too. Things can mean more than one thing after all.

Cloud and Aerith having a different sort of loneliness as kids and finding some kind of sympathy towards each other there doesn't really take away from Zack and Aerith bonding over Zack losing someone

 

[Nancy]

it always makes me scratch my head when I see some extremists say CA will kiss in p3. Like, no they aren't going to. The game isn't going in that direction.

I feel like IF the devs do give them a kiss, it will be Aerith kissing Cloud maybe on the cheek goodbye

 

[Ryushikaze]

Honestly, I am curious what the CA think endgame is going to be, exactly, especially given Hamaguchi confirmed Aerith is dead and is not planned to return.