LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

The one he lives with or the dead one?

  • Living

    Votes: 96 88.9%
  • Dead

    Votes: 12 11.1%

  • Total voters
    108
Status
Not open for further replies.

Isabella

Your Mom
How is Aerith being in denial a retcon when a large number of us took it that way in the original game? Either a) we were right through pure, lucky coincidence; or b) there was evidence all along that some picked up on, some did not.

To me, her preoccupation with Zack wasn't just a whopping hint for us about Cloud's secret. It was also a big element of Aerith's tragic history. When you think she's finally ready to let go of her hurt and begin again with Cloud (on the date), she goes and gets herself killed.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
This is something I believe is up to interpretation though. We don't know what Aerith went through as a kid but as LV said, experimentations and stuff were probably the least of her worries. They've both had shit pasts and they've both learned to cope. I think it's ridiculous trying to prove one is more strong than the other. They're both very different in how they react to stuff and are both very strong. That's basically it to me.

BTW OWD, fixed your avatar on TFC :monster:

How is Aerith being in denial a retcon when a large number of us took it that way in the original game? Either a) we were right through pure, lucky coincidence; or b) there was evidence all along that some picked up on, some did not.
C. It could have gone either way and they decided to go that way?

Honestly I never really paid much attention to Aerith when she spoke of Zack. I didn't take it as a big deal when she brought him up because I've brought up my ex's in the past. I also didn't have her in my party when I went to Gongaga the first couple times I played. Maybe my opinion would be different then but to me it just never screamed denial.
 
Last edited:

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
When it comes to Aerith and/or Tifa being weak or strong, they're both. Tifa and Aerith are complimentary in that aspect. Aerith is very weak physically, but she has a strong will and great spiritual power. Tifa is strong physically, but she has emotional weakness, and is hesitant and shy when it comes to expressing herself.
I know someone will complain Tifa is not emotionally weak, just a matter of who it'll be.
I don't hold it against either of them, its what makes them them.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Tifa is strong physically, but she has emotional weakness, and is hesitant and shy when it comes to expressing herself.
YES exactly! Tifa is much more reserved than Aerith thus she has an emotional weakness. It's not a bad thing it's just who she is. Thank you Drake :D
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I'm just curious: Why is Cloud being obsessed with finding Aerith romantic, but Aerith being preoccupied with Zack pathetic?

Also, why are we not discussing this more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=147txYO_Ymk

Thank you to Jem for the link.

Oh, awesome. Not that I thought she was dead for a second.
Also, Monty, I love Tifa fights, but take a break. Show us some Rikku! You had the contest and everything!

How is Aerith being in denial a retcon when a large number of us took it that way in the original game? Either a) we were right through pure, lucky coincidence; or b) there was evidence all along that some picked up on, some did not.

To me, her preoccupation with Zack wasn't just a whopping hint for us about Cloud's secret. It was also a big element of Aerith's tragic history. When you think she's finally ready to let go of her hurt and begin again with Cloud (on the date), she goes and gets herself killed.

Yeah.
We're not saying Aerith is literally obsessed with Zack, but that she is not emotionally over a man she was very serious about and who vanished suddenly. She is trying to be over him, she doesn't want to be stuck on him, but she keeps falling into the same emotional rut, in that she is attracted to Cloud because of Zack, only only realizes this and grows fond of Cloud for Cloud just before her death.

And seriously, how is Aerith -> Zack pathetic but Cloud -> Aerith not? Especially when Zack wasn't dead for most of those five years, but Aerith has been well dead for over two?

This is something I believe is up to interpretation though. We don't know what Aerith went through as a kid but as LV said, experimentations and stuff were probably the least of her worries.

Uh, they were probably the whole of them.

They've both had shit pasts and they've both learned to cope. I think it's ridiculous trying to prove one is more strong than the other. They're both very different in how they react to stuff and are both very strong. That's basically it to me.

This is true, and they are strong in their way, but I do think the independence angle needs to be addressed.
Aerith lives with her mother, with her own room, in the best corner of the slums. She has a part time job, but she's hardly on her own.
Tifa lives with AVALANCHE, a terrorist group, and is largely funding their activities with her actions, taking care of the other members, and helping take care of her best friend's kid.
I think, by definition, she's more independent, because she has to care for so many people. Even her 'revolving' around Cloud isn't a dependency, because she doesn't need him, but because she cares. She doesn't need him, but she might think he needs her.

C. It could have gone either way and they decided to go that way?

Which technically validates the 'it was always that way' if it was up in the air before. We didn't know. Now we do. It wasn't a retconning of previous information.

Honestly I never really paid much attention to Aerith when she spoke of Zack. I didn't take it as a big deal when she brought him up because I've brought up my ex's in the past. I also didn't have her in my party when I went to Gongaga the first couple times I played. Maybe my opinion would be different then but to me it just never screamed denial.

It doesn't 'scream' denial at all. But it all builds up. And Gongaga and especially Zack's demise just seal the deal.
Man she never met dies in Wutai 'Mommy, I was talking with a man who wanted to say he's sorry he's not coming back'
Man she loves dies miles away from her house, she learns his parents haven't seen him in five years either 'I guess he really found someone else', that's denial. There's no way Aerith could MISS Zack's death, especially with her visible reaction to it.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I would like to say that being reserved is NOT an emotional weakness. Not automatically. By the same token, being overly forthright, overly brusque, can be one. It's all in mild v extreme.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
There's a difference between being reserved - which Tifa is - and being SHY - which Tifa ALSO is and that is more akin to an emotional weakness.

Beside that, there was also a lot more ongoing and at risk, just not her love - until the Lifestream scene. Tifa hid a lot, in fear to break Cloud.

She learns to let go of her shyness during the game though.

Being reserved is by no mean a weakness in itself.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Being reserved is by no mean a weakness in itself.
It can be when it gets in the way. I mean if she had just confronted Cloud about about stuff he was remembering from the Nibelheim incident instead of just feeling unsure about herself and they had talked that out instead, there's a chance Cloud wouldn't have gone so nuts.

AND NO I'M NOT BLAMING TIFA SO STFU

Just saying in that case it became a weakness and a problem.
 
Last edited:

Vendel

Banned
It can be when it gets in the way. I mean if she had just confronted Cloud about about stuff he was remembering from the Nibelheim incident instead of just feeling unsure about herself and they had talked that out instead, there's a chance Cloud wouldn't have gone so nuts.


Or he could have just had a complete breakdown that much sooner.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Somehow I think Tifa telling him vs Sephroth telling him would have made a difference.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I know and the bitch should have told him instead of not telling him to keep her ideal image of him and causing his geostigma :awesome:


(seriously am I really NOT making that much sense? :()
 

Fighter

Pro Adventurer
It can be when it gets in the way. I mean if she had just confronted Cloud about about stuff he was remembering from the Nibelheim incident instead of just feeling unsure about herself and they had talked that out instead, there's a chance Cloud wouldn't have gone so nuts.

When she prods Cloud to remember he falls with a migraine.

Just saying in that case it became a weakness and a problem.

When this argument started though that's not the issue that was being implied. It was her emotional strength and independence that was questioned.

So Tifa's shyness to speak up is the best we came up with?
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
When she prods Cloud to remember he falls with a migraine.
And then he remembers eventually doesn't he?
When this argument started though that's not the issue that was being implied. It was her emotional strength and independence that was questioned.

So Tifa's shyness to speak up is the best we came up with?
...
yes?
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
(seriously am I really NOT making that much sense? :()

Bah, you never make sense, this is nothing new.

The Nibelheim thing has crossed my mind too. Yes, it likely would have given Cloud a breakdown if she'd told him. But it would have been an easier breakdown. I think Tifa explaining it to him gently and trying to figure out the real truth would be a bit easier on Cloud's mind than Sephy claiming he's just a lump of mako-soaked Jenova cells. That, plus all the other stuff Sephiroth was putting Cloud through during the game that just added to the mental baggage that eventually collapsed. Sephiroth wasn't just telling Cloud he was never at Nibelheim, he was accusing him of not even being "Cloud" and not human. I think Tifa would have been a bit more subtle if she had broken the news to him.

I don't blame her for anything, but if Tifa sat Cloud down for a chat, they could have likely avoided a lot of trouble.
 
Last edited:

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
The only time he remembers the whole truth is the lifestream which is a pretty damn special event. But when he learns he isn't who he says he is it breaks him.
Okay Im sorry what part were you talking about where he got a migraine?
 

Fighter

Pro Adventurer
Okay Im sorry what part were you talking about where he got a migraine?

When Cloud tries to remember the events in Nibelheim in the beginning of the game and tells his Zackified story. Tifa gently prods him to keep going and when he gets to the part where Zack fought Sephiroth he falls to his knees holding his head.
 

Loxetta

Pro Adventurer
...Maybe if Tifa would have said "Uh, no, it's been seven years, not five. Wtf are you talking about?" at the train station when Cloud was just coming out of zombie-state, he might have never cemented his false reality in the first place.
 

Fighter

Pro Adventurer
...Maybe if Tifa would have said "Uh, no, it's been seven years, not five. Wtf are you talking about?" at the train station when Cloud was just coming out of zombie-state, he might have never cemented his false reality in the first place.

Or maybe he would never recover any reality at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom