LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

The one he lives with or the dead one?

  • Living

    Votes: 96 88.9%
  • Dead

    Votes: 12 11.1%

  • Total voters
    108
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Vendel

Banned
Except that's not what she said, at least I never got the impression that she said they had a relationship. I mean her whole basis is that other people saw that Cloud loved Aerith and I always just thought she meant those two had mutual feelings, but not so much that they were in a relationship

She is working on the premise that unless shown otherwise koibito means boyfriend/girlfriend. (which BTW seems like standard operating procedure)

Then goes to say why this is the case for C/A. She is using "other people saw it" argument to support this.

I feel like waiving that "Cloud is unaware quote" around and gluing it to someones head.
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Well she did say the first time she saw the game her friend played it so that Cloud was nice to Aerith so I can't really blame her :monster:

Although I do like her essays more when they come to a Cloti conclusion.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
She already said in her other essay that it was Cloud so unless she changed her mind...
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
I still hate debating against Cleriths because honestly, I really do think that we (by we I mean me vs. you guys) share different views on how SE feels about C/A as a pairing. I consider those to be pretty legitimate evidence. even though yes, she is wrong.

There there, I find that there is Cloud/Aeris evidence that is perfectly legitimate. Certainly enough to make it non-crack. I just think Cloud's feelings for Aeris are completely optional. What I get from the game is that we're supposed to use Cloud as a self-insertion for our own feelings for Aeris. Red herring does come into play a little bit as well. None of it changes the fact that he ultimately ends up with Tifa.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I didn't know such a quote existed... and yeah is there one that says he only senses her presence?

Found another willing Clerith on youtube. :joy:
 
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Fighter

Pro Adventurer
I think it's the script that says, "Kadaj reached for the hand that he saw". But I want to know if there is an exact quote like that.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
I found the problem, guys. Glop enjoys Hetalia.

That makes anyone go wonky on the facts of reality.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I think it's the script that says, "Kadaj reached for the hand that he saw". But I want to know if there is an exact quote like that.

They don't use the script as evidence, it has stuff in it they don't like contradicts what it has on screen sometimes
 
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Goodbye Charlie

Rising Chest-Bank Protestor
There there, I find that there is Cloud/Aeris evidence that is perfectly legitimate.

I have to say without causing contentious or seeming "hardcore", in all my time as a neutral (having no real issue with Aeris or no real true love for Tifa), I've still yet to see evidence - that is articles that support a consistent rationale - that Cloud/Aeris is in anyway legitimate.

Everything I've seen suggested is either subjective or used without any greater context. You could take a piece of dialogue between Barrett and Cloud out of context and suggest there is evidence for their love, but no one really looks to moot that.

I certainly support people preferring C/A or even wanting to read in romance or attraction into their time together - that's fine, in fact, the game let's the player indulge in such a way, but anything more I've never seen. As you say LM, the player craft's Cloud's feelings for Aeris, not the character and to some degree, the player can also do the same for Tifa, but overall as a story on its own, its very clear that even when it was just FF7 with no complication, it was Tifa Cloud was meant to end up with, the whole Lifestream sequence makes that point abundantly clear, regardless of whether the player has played the game to shift the "game" into offering a slightly alternative low affection Highwind tangent.

I think its great some C/A are now saying "yes, we see Cloti is canon, but we prefer C/A". Cool, but there is a natural urge for the other "side" to feel the need to bend equally and say "well, there is probably evidence that Cleris could be the case in theory even though it never happened". I still don't really see any indication of that throughout the compilation, so while I'd happily bend if there was reason to, I'm afraid I have to seem smug and do the "I'm right you're wrong" dance.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
People are still making ~you have to know Asian culture to see the love~ arguments?

You know, the same way that we had to with RinoaxSquall, ZidanexDagger, TidusxYuna, and ... oh, right.

For real, though, if we didn't have to do it with Tidus and Yuna in what is the most overtly Asian FF yet in terms of atmosphere and setting -- why in the hell would we need to do it with the cyberpunk setting?
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
You know, the same way that we had to with RinoaxSquall, ZidanexDagger, TidusxYuna, and ... oh, right.

For real, though, if we didn't have to do it with Tidus and Yuna in what is the most overtly Asian FF yet in terms of atmosphere and setting -- why in the hell would we need to do it with the cyberpunk setting?
Making out in water is deeply symbolic in Asian culture.

...or was that in Freudian dream analysis...
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
The water they made out in was significantly deeper when they went into it than when they were just standing in it. Just like the lake that Aeris was laid to rest in. So that means the parallel with the variable depth of water implies that Cloud.......screw it, I suck at this crackpot theory stuff...:monster:
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Drake said:
Disagree, but I see what they mean, and the statement alone isn't false. Aeris dying doesn't automatically mean Cloud loves Tifa. "Yes, she's dead, I'm in!" Uh-uh.

Yup, I do agree with that... and that's also precisely WHY I think Cloud never loved Aerith romantically.

Because I can't picture Cloud being all lovey dovey with Tifa while his other love was just lost a few days before. It just doesn't add up to me.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Some people will say "Nojima said this: 'Cloud is the woman's friend and lover.'" and it's misleading because the proper way to say it is "ColW said this: Cloud WAS the woman's friend and lover."

get it? :monster:

Actually, it should be even further than that- "The woman said this: Cloud was the woman's friend, lover, etc."

And then because it never said who the woman was, insist it could mean ANY woman!
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
Why is it Clerii over at TFC like to post giant lists of quotes without explaining how they fit within their argument? That shit is worth nothing.
 

Winter

8ad 8r8k
AKA
oddishness, like vines, azula, femshep, winter
I'm afraid I have to seem smug and do the "I'm right you're wrong" dance.
How neutral of you.


No, seriously, I don't buy that C/A was completely unfounded, for a lot of reasons, but SE themselves even comes back to it in things like Kingdom Hearts and FF Tactics. Obviously it's not some insane fanon pairing.

Which part of The Lion King, hunny? ;D

I WILL FIND IT and be back 8D

you guys are so awesome hahaha
 
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Vendel

Banned
How neutral of you.

Someone who declares to be neutral on a subject before having all the information on hand is smart. It's the people who defend 'neutrality' after having all the information on hand that irks some people.

No, seriously, I don't buy that C/A was completely unfounded, for a lot of reasons, but SE themselves even comes back to it in things like Kingdom Hearts and FF Tactics. Obviously it's not some insane fanon pairing.

AU means nothing. Just because you have Cloud and Aerith showing up in an AU game does not make it 'Clerith'. And someone correct me if I am wrong. But haven't Cloud and Tifa appeared together just as often as C/A?

How many times have you seen someone call that fighting game a 'cloti hint'? Unless they were countering a pinker claim on it's own merits that is.
 

Winter

8ad 8r8k
AKA
oddishness, like vines, azula, femshep, winter
AU means nothing. Just because you have Cloud and Aerith showing up in an AU game does not make it 'Clerith'. And someone correct me if I am wrong. But haven't Cloud and Tifa appeared together just as often as C/A?
If you're trying to argue that Cloud and Aerith's appearances in KH/FFT aren't deliberately romantic, that's ridiculous.

And yes, they have, but Cloti is canon so it makes sense. I'm saying C/A obviously has some ground since SE dicks around with the pairing every once in a while.

don't mind me, I'm just stirring shit
 
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