LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

The one he lives with or the dead one?

  • Living

    Votes: 96 88.9%
  • Dead

    Votes: 12 11.1%

  • Total voters
    108
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Winter

8ad 8r8k
AKA
oddishness, like vines, azula, femshep, winter
The ending of ACC wasn't romantic; it wasn't about them being together, it was about Cloud overcome losing them and coming to terms with the impact they'd had on his life.

AC was Cloud's story.

When Zack died- gave up his very life- just to be with her again
It wasn't JUST TO SEE HER. He knew where she lived in the slums and he knew he could stay with her. He was escaping the government, not fleeing to see the love of his life. It wasn't about romance, it was about necessity.

I'm not saying he didn't care for her, I just think perhaps you are taking things out of context.

(don't mean to come off as rude either, I'm tired and filing my taxes ;o; <3)
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Some people love one another with 100% of their beings and it's mutual.

Well, that would assume that 100% of everyone is equal to 100% of everyone else, wouldn't it? :awesome: Some people are certainly equipped to love more/better/differently than others.

Anyway, in fairness, people who are very much in love and happy together love each other in different "quantities" -- not that you can easily measure it. Maybe it should be "to different manifestations." That's just a fact of life.

One person in a relationship might recover faster than the other in the event of death separating them. One might not give love another chance while the other could.

For the one who does give it another chance, doesn't mean there was no love, or that it wasn't genuine and intense.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
That is true that he died trying to see her but... and I'm asking because I don't know, did he know he could possibly die? I'm sure he wanted to see her regardless but did he know he could die?

Dude... he definitely knew it was possible that he COULD die. He knew that everyone in ShinRa is after him, and Midgar is ShinRa's base, it's swarming with ShinRa soldiers and the very president himself. Zack would have to be a complete dumb ass retard to not realize that he might die going back just to see one woman.

He knew his body was weak from Mako poisoning, and on top of that he had Cloud to protect. And there's a damn reason why he set Cloud down and walked away into HOW many soldiers shooting grenades and missiles and bullets at him? At that point, he could have run away with Cloud and waited it out. NO. He was determined to get back to Midgar.

but I always feel that he loves me more

Interesting... It's way different for my bf and I.

and when he wrote home he wrote "&#12460;&#12540;&#12523;&#12501;&#12524;&#12531;&#12489;" and this person is saying that &#12460;&#12540;&#12523;&#12501;&#12524;&#12531;&#12489; means friend or not quite lover.

Yeah, okay, but the fact that they're dating and are said to be in a serious intimate relationship translates to just a friend? Yeah, who told you that? =/ Anyway, the fact still stands that if it says that Zack informing his parents of her means it's SPECIAL than it is.

He was escaping the government, not fleeing to see the love of his life. It wasn't about romance, it was about necessity.

LOL HOLD UP. So Zack is fleeing the government so he's going back to the very ROOT of the problem? The very BASE of the government? That makes no sense. Unless he tarded out and went "oh hey let's go back to Midgar it's so obvious they'll never see me coming LOL" After he reads Aerith's letter he tells Cloud that he HAS to go back to Midgar. Then he tells Cloud that again in the ShinRa mansion, after seeing a flash back of Aerith. He also looks into the sky and says,
"Aerith... wait for me."

//I apologize if I sound rude
i swear to drunk im not god
 
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Winter

8ad 8r8k
AKA
oddishness, like vines, azula, femshep, winter
LOL HOLD UP. So Zack is fleeing the government so he's going back to the very ROOT of the problem? The very BASE of the government? That makes no sense.
Midgar was easily the closest place to where he was when he escaped from the mansion, and when he hitched the ride from the pickup truck that's mostly the direction the driver was going in.

He knew she was there, so he planned to meet up with her and find a safe haven (which is why he mentioned that she lives with her mom).

After he reads Aerith's letter he tells Cloud that he HAS to go back to Midgar. Then he tells Cloud that again in the ShinRa mansion, after seeing a flash back of Aerith. He also looks into the sky and says,
"Aerith... wait for me."
.... waitafuckingminute.

So CC implies that he actually went back to Midgar just to see Aerith? And died trying to see her?

WOW ZACK, GREAT TO SEE THAT YOU VALUE CLOUD'S LIFE ENOUGH TO KEEP HIM SAFE, DERP.

fuck I hate CC, I didn't know that. retcon bullshit yay
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Yeah, okay, but the fact that they're dating and are said to be in a serious intimate relationship translates to just a friend?
That was never said, they said their relationship was NOT serious.

"They attract to each other by mutual feelings similar to friendship, because they're both juvenile, if you call it love..."
Zack falls to the Church of the Slum during his mission and ends up meeting the girl Aerith, who's trimming flowers. They both feel contented simply with each other's company; it's a platonic love. They think these kinds of happy days will last forever, but...."
"The setting that &#8220;falling from the roof of the Church&#8221; repeats Aerith&#8217;s encounter with Cloud was decided in the beginning. Though we&#8217;re talking about love, they are still young back then and there&#8217;s no time to describe &#8220;how they become fond of each other&#8221; in the game. So I made it like &#8220;falling into a sudden crush.&#8221;

That doesn't sound like "serious intimate relationship" to me.

Yeah, who told you that? =/ Anyway, the fact still stands that if it says that Zack informing his parents of her means it's SPECIAL than it is.
MotA said that on CxA and she's not the first one that I've heard say that Japanese don't use that word for a serious romance.

And there's a damn reason why he set Cloud down and walked away into HOW many soldiers shooting grenades and missiles and bullets at him? At that point, he could have run away with Cloud and waited it out. NO. He was determined to get back to Midgar.
I assumed he did it because he was surrounded, had to fight and put Cloud over there to protect him O_o
How does running into a massive swarm of SOLDIERs get him closer to Aerith?

retcon bullshit yay
indeed :monster:
 
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Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Midgar was easily the closest place to where he was when he escaped from the mansion, and when he hitched the ride from the pickup truck that's mostly the direction the driver was going in.

He knew she was there, so he planned to meet up with her and find a safe haven (which is why he mentioned that she lives with her mom).

So Zack has brain problems... I see. XDD But yeah, he clearly knew he might die, that's why he set Cloud down and went off on his one to face a billion soldiers even though he was weakened by Mako.

.... waitafuckingminute.

So CC implies that he actually went back to Midgar just to see Aerith? And died trying to see her?

WOW ZACK, GREAT TO SEE THAT YOU VALUE CLOUD'S LIFE ENOUGH TO KEEP HIM SAFE, DERP.

fuck I hate CC, I didn't know that. retcon bullshit yay

MOM, have you played CC?!
Zack dies

That's how it felt to me, I mean maybe he really did think he could safely make it into Midgar, but he didn't seem to have a reason to go back there besides Aerith. Why else would he go back there, especially at the end of CC when you see him basically toss his life away? That's why he protected Cloud at the end in the way that he did. That's why there was Cloud reaching out to Zack OMG DRAMATIC.

Is there any other reason for Zack to go back to Midgar? Anyone?

That was never said, they said their relationship was NOT serious.

LOL DO YOU WANT QUOTES? Everyone here knows they exist. I've only posted them a million fucking times!!

How does running into a massive swarm of SOLDIERs get him closer to Aerith?

DERP WHY IS HE EVEN GOING TO MIDGAR

// no srsly im not pissed ilu all
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Is there any other reason for Zack to go back to Midgar? Anyone?
cheap hookers? :monster:

And I'm sure Zack was going to see Aerith but....
I forgot what I was getting at... too tired, I'm going to bed.

LOL DO YOU WANT QUOTES? Everyone here knows they exist. I've only posted them a million fucking times!!
I know you do, I've seen them, I can dig them up right now but... my bed is calling.

DERP WHY IS HE EVEN GOING TO MIDGAR
I just said cheap hookers :rage:
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
And I'm sure Zack was going to see Aerith but....
I forgot what I was getting at... too tired, I'm going to bed.

victory-is-mine.gif


I just said cheap hookers

i never knew you were a fack fan

I know you do, I've seen them

Then how do you NOT KNOW that Zack and Aerith sincerely fell in love, were intimate, and had a serious relationship?
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Come to think of it....Advent Children. Cloud rides his motorcycle from Midgar to the Forgotten City in a few hours? Okay, maybe the trip would be do-able in that time frame, if not for that slight problem of THE OCEAN!

Do the devs just not pay attention to the world geography anymore?
 

Vendel

Banned
.... waitafuckingminute.

So CC implies that he actually went back to Midgar just to see Aerith? And died trying to see her?

Would he have any other reason to go back? Into the lions den with his companion cube Cloud?


And Q. Don't spend so much time in the land of pink. It makes your "Aerith loved Cloud more than Zack" delusion become more inflamed.
 
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Lol. They DO go back and forth witZerith. IMO Alot of it is fanservice =/ I'd like to see a Zerith romance after CC but all you get is forced symbolism.

Platonic love, not serious says CCUlti...
Star crossed Lovers says Brady (THE ULTIMATE SOURCE- Yea no.)
Always by eachothers sides says Den Profile...
And apparently not there at all suggested by ColW.

I think Aerith is stuck on Cloud for some bitch-Backwards reasoning. Latest info has her calling the guy her boyfriend while she's dead so... the only sources that milk that 'forever love' shit is secondhand.

Maybe something new will come out straight from SE when they can decide between Platonic-Not serious-No its FOREVER-She loves Cloud.

Fanservice may have a heavy tilt in that as well though.Zerith is the Japanese OTP. And SE loves money.
 

Vendel

Banned
Oh how silly of me. Zerith is in the past.

SE goes to great lengths to show us that. The fact that Aerith stalks Cloud because of her feelings for Zack is to show us just how in the past it is.

And how the last scenes of ACC are Zack and Aerith together. Her flowers growing on his grave site. And his sword in her church. Because it is IN THE PAST.

Thank you SE for showing us this quaint little summer fling between these two totally not serious children. That was quickly forgotten once someone better came crashing through the roof.
 
You can blame SE Bill they're the ones calling it not serious and PLATONIC of all damn things to call some Earth shattering intimate love. Its inconsistent. It was either serious or it wasnt you dont get it both ways.

Forced symbolism is a stretcher and you know that. Any moron knows its a symbol of Zack's will reaching the place he died getting to. Yeah but so why Platonic? Why Cloud is my koibito? Why does SE put that shit out there.

I've yet to see Quex's question answered. Zerith love is great and all but dont act like SE doesnt slap it in the face like it does EVERYTHING else in the compilation.

Seriously. Someone give a direct answer. CC Ultimanias ARE Canon. Are they not?
Platonic, why?
Why would they say that. Is there a logical unbiased FACT answer to this?
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Seriously. Someone give a direct answer. CC Ultimanias ARE Canon. Are they not?

Yes, they are.

quote dump for the like 80 millionth time:

FROM THE CCU/FFU ON ZACK X AERITH

The dull life in the Slum, the love with a SOLDIER who fell from the sky.

In CC, Aerith is just a 15-year-old girl. Under the surveillance from Shinra, who wanted to worm out the location of the Promise Land from the Ancients. Growing flowers seems trivial but it brought her joy while she lived at the Sector 5 Slums. At that chosen day, she accidentally met Zack, SOLDIER 1st Class, and they were attracted to each other…

Quote: text near img of Aerith's pointing to the Church's roof
Just like Cloud in FF7, Zack fell to Aerith’s Church. Meeting him brings along her first love.
Quote: text near img of Aerith's talking, saying "Everyman would notice the flowers, I mean, normally."
Inspired by the flowers that she forbids trampling, they planed to sell flowers at the market. In CC, Aeirth used to say that flowers are indispensable.
Quote: text near img of Aerith holding Zack
Aerith gently embraced Zack, who came back sad. The atmosphere makes them feel like a couple....

Quote:
[ ν ] - εуλ 0000

(Age 15)

·CC - Midgar

She met Zack in the Sector 5 church, and became very
intimate with him.



The "girlfriend" reported at the parent's house.

6-7 years prior to FFVII, Zack's "I've managed to get a girlfriend" letter was left out in the parents' home. If it was 6-7 years ago, it was about the time where he met Aerith in CC... Does that mean the girlfriend was Aerith?



Quote:
To Dad and Mom,
How are you?
I'm sorry for suddenly rushing out of the village. The truth is that I really wanted to become a SOLDIER. I thought that saying that would worry you . . . I'm now fulfilling my dreams and working hard as a SOLDIER.

P.S. I've managed to get a girlfriend.

-Zack


Quote:
Zack seems to have a number of girlfriends, but especially informing his home means there's no doubt that the partner is a special one.


Quote:
As a result of being able to surmise everything from each small deed, Aerith, who was in love with Zack, might perhaps have been jealous many times seeing all that...

The girl pretty as flowers blooms in Zack’s mind.

Quote:
The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other.

Quote:
The chosen day, Zack suddenly fell from the roof of the Church in the Slum. His bright confidence immediately catches her mind, and they start a relationship as a couple.

Quote:
Aerith honestly expresses her good feeling to Zack straight out, and that also makes his heart skip a beat.

Quote:
Selling flowers will richen both wallet and streets?

Aerith’s interest is taking care of flowers, but flowers rarely bloom in Slum because the sky is covered by the Plate. Aerith’s dream is to plant a lot of flowers around the Slum—for such a dream, Zack suggests that she should sell those flowers she plants, and not just around the Slum, but make the whole Midgar full of flowers. His plan that “If Midgar is full of flowers, then your wallet will be full too!” opens up a gate to a new world to Aerith.

Quote:
The more Aerith knows about Zack, the more she’s attracted by him. Her manner toward Zack is also sweet.

Quote:
Repeating Zack’s look with Cloud’s.

Being an Ancient, Aerith did her utmost to save the Planet, even sacrificed life—in FF7, the impression of Aerith being such a tragic heroine is strong. Nevertheless, the most significant link to FF7 is the conversations about Cloud. The reason why she’s a flower girl when she first meets Cloud, the beginning of love with her first love, Zack, and the reason she saw Zack in Cloud—all those things we don’t know in FF7 are made clear in CC.

Text: Aerith asks Cloud to be her bodyguard. Does her “one date” as the payment repeat what Zack used to say to her?


Quote:
*Text near the img of Zack and Aerith in CC:
Aerith never talks about her bitterness but lives brightly. It is growing by degrees into inseparable relationship.

Nojima: The setting that “falling from the roof of the Church” repeats Aerith’s encounter with Cloud was decided in the beginning. Though we’re talking about love, they are still young back then and there’s no time to describe “how they become fond of each other” in the game. So I made it like “falling into a sudden crush.”

Nojima: However, Zack did not appear only for the reason as a key to the puzzle. The setting of “Aerith overlaps Cloud with her first love” and Zack as the key character are settled before I joined the team of development.

All of the DMW memories of Aerith:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19vXro4MTgs

"Zack, my wagon broke... so I will now continue to sell flowers in a basket."

JEEZ.

And think of it this way. Maybe the relationship started out as something like a sudden crush/platonic, but grew into something stronger. It depends on where those quotes fit in the time line. It's not fan service, it's actually rather simple!
 
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Again though is it NOT inconsistent for them to call it platonic? It IS an opposition to all that. Its like they cant make up their minds.

I'm all up for a Zerith romance. It isnt about trying to force Zerith down any throats. Its the question of SE's back and forth arguments regarding the couple. I've seen their bond described in several different ways which do not meet eachother halfway.

Irreplaceable yet not serious? Really?
Platonic but intimate? That one kind of scares me. All in the same book to.

And I wasnt really here for the Koibito hype so what was the TLS explanation for Aerith calling Cloud her beloved? Perhaps there was vodka in the lifestream that day?

Thanks for the quotes Celes dear.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Again though is it NOT inconsistent for them to call it platonic? It IS an opposition to all that. Its like they cant make up their minds.

Well, yeah. It is strange that they would call it that, and then say it's serious. But if you think about it, perhaps they were speaking about different parts of the time line. I'd think they were being really inconsistent, but then there's this quote here:

Nojima: The setting that &#8220;falling from the roof of the Church&#8221; repeats Aerith&#8217;s encounter with Cloud was decided in the beginning. Though we&#8217;re talking about love, they are still young back then and there&#8217;s no time to describe &#8220;how they become fond of each other&#8221; in the game. So I made it like &#8220;falling into a sudden crush.&#8221;

Right here he says it was all decided from the beginning. And he says though we are talking about love. To me it seems like they just don't have time to describe the relationship. So it seems they wanted to show that they became instantly attracted to one another, aka a sudden crush. But that doesn't mean it forever remained a crush! As proven by the other quotes, it just became more.
 
Well, yeah. It is strange that they would call it that, and then say it's serious. But if you think about it, perhaps they were speaking about different parts of the time line.

I'd really love it if SE thought it through that carefully... But the Timeline states at age 15 in Midgar she met Zack and they become an intimate couple. YET within the same time....

Zack falls to the Church of the Slum during his mission and ends up meeting the girl Aerith, who's trimming flowers. They both feel contented simply with each other's company; it's a platonic love. They think these kinds of happy days will last forever, but...."i

Platonic and Intimate are within the same wavelength...

The love developing it of course going to happen... But the quote about them not to be taken seriously because of youth, applies to the entire duration of their youth.

Dont take an intimate platonic first love seriously. Even though they are irreplaceable to eachother their feelings are all mutual friendship vibes.
 
Platonic as in not sexual, not that they weren't in love.

'Sudden crush' was talking about how they didn't have time to show us Zack and Aerith falling in love, so they decided it would happen very quickly.

Tiff you forgot my favourite one!
Aerith's feelings for Zack explain why she acts the way she does around Cloud in FFVII.
 

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
Platonic, why?
Why would they say that. Is there a logical unbiased FACT answer to this?

I believe the word for "love" used in the Japanese here is "koi" which already puts their relationship in a pretty romantic light. So "platonic love" here would be more in line with a "platonic romance", as in Zack and Aerith shared a romance that was not sexual (yet).
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
ShuShu I am having a hard time following you. And I mean that honestly. :/

Platonic as in not sexual, not that they weren't in love.

This is exactly what they meant. Zack and Aerith are in love, but the staff is very quick to say, "We know they are minors no sex no sex don't worry we're being moral." :)

'Sudden crush' was talking about how they didn't have time to show us Zack and Aerith falling in love, so they decided it would happen very quickly

This as well. This is why I wish CC had not been on the PSP. There was just no room on the UMD for the amount of story that was needed. They also didn't have time to properly flesh out Zack and Aerith's relationship, so they had to make a strong impact very quickly to make it work.

.... waitafuckingminute.

So CC implies that he actually went back to Midgar just to see Aerith? And died trying to see her?

Yup. Getting back to Aerith is the ONLY reason Zack decides to try to make it back to Midgar. Other than that why would he go? We see a flashback of their last meeting and her saying she wants to spend more time with him and stuff and Zack is all like, "Cloud, I have to go to Midgar. Want to come with me?"

And then Zack gets Aerith's last letter and is all distraught at the idea that she might not wait for him.

But then he dies. Zack didn't know he would die, but he died. He died trying to return to Aerith.

MOM, have you played CC?!
Zack dies

*gasps* NO WAY

Is there any other reason for Zack to go back to Midgar? Anyone?

Nope. It's the last place I would go if I were him. :P
 
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Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Yup. Getting back to Aerith is the ONLY reason Zack decides to try to make it back to Midgar. Other than that why would he go? We see a flashback of their last meeting and her saying she wants to spend more time with him and stuff and Zack is all like, "Cloud, I have to go to Midgar. Want to come with me?"

And then Zack gets Aerith's last letter and is all distraught at the idea that she might not wait for him.

Thank you TENNY, YOU GET IT.

I still say Zack knew it was possible he could die, though.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Midgar was easily the closest place to where he was when he escaped from the mansion, and when he hitched the ride from the pickup truck that's mostly the direction the driver was going in.
but he could have gone to any other town that wasn't swarming with Shinra/WASTHEIRDAMNHEADQUARTERSWHAT. Kalm or Fort Condor or hell, the chocobo ranch seem like much smarter choices than running to the headquarters of the company that employed the dude who shoved him and his bff in tubes.

Going to Midgar is general just seems like a stupid idea in general. :awesome:
 
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