LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[null]

True, if you're Kyrie running away from Nero and Dante.

If you're Aerith then it's really more of a calculated risk.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

also Sephiroth is pretty fucking stupid for not killing her before she finished praying for Holy. Imo.

Yes, but he's also stupid for not finishing Cloud off the dozens of times he's had the chance too. Sephy gets caught up in the idea of tormenting him that he doesn't kill him. He didn't just want Aerith dead, he wanted Cloud to kill her, and then when he resisted he settled for killing her while Cloud watched.

 

[null]

Holding still long enough to get Omnislashed also shows poor situational awareness imo.

 

[Ite]

I see no proof that I am wrong. What I'm hearing is "you're wrong, the characters aren't acting logically, Sephiroth and Aeris are all acting like big stupid dummies" when really, Cloud is the only idiot in this scenario. At this point, Aeris and Sephiroth are the power pieces, and Cloud is still a pawn. In the temple of the Ancients, when Aeris realized what exactly the white materia did, she ascended into being a force of good, the white wizard (a la gandalf). When Sephiroth controls Cloud (like a pawn) Aeris figures that the guy she digs is unwittingly on the wrong side so she books it alone.

At no point does Sephiroth say "She's obviously going to the Forgotten City. Peace, Cloud!" Because Sephiroth did not know where Aeris was in the dream, he was making Cloud fear for her life so he would find out where she was, leading Sephiroth to her. Which is why Sephiroth doesn't beat the party there, Cloud and the others have to find their way into the forgotten city before Sephiroth can follow. It's all part of Jenova's big-ol-Xanatos-gambit. No chess player in their right mind would send their queen in before a pawn, which is why they try and get Cloud to kill Aeris when he gets there.

Aeris smiles at Cloud because she's already succeeded, not because she's necessarily happy to see him. Because it doesn't matter what happens, she's prayed for Holy, her work is done, and she can return to the party. I assume she *is* also happy to see him, and probably happy that he managed to control his body into not-killing her, but I think that's a secondary source of the smile.

Aeris going off alone was foolish, but I'm going to be stubborn and say that Aeris going off without Cloud was the smartest thing she could have done.

 

[Max Payne]

If you're Aerith then it's really more of a calculated risk.

It's still a massive risk seeing as how Sephiroth and his Jenova puppet were clearly to not be fucked with. It took all of Avalanche to survive their encounters with them before she ran off.

How did she think she would survive running into them? Or did she just think she could outrun them long enough to do what she had to and get back? She wasn't exactly that strong or swift, y'know.

 

[Eerie]

I'll just say this then: in a classic pen and paper game, do you go solo somewhere alone - potentially dangerous - while leaving your team behind?

NO. Especially not if you're the healer because it means you cannot survive for a long time - heck even in D&D where healers sustain a lot of damages, it's better if they're with someone.

Everyone knows it's a bad decision. Aerith made a dumb decision, because that's something you just don't do, no matter what, when you're in a team AND a healer on top of that.

She wasn't dumb, but the decision that cost her her life WAS. Of course she didn't know she was going to die and all, but you just don't do that, period.

/end of roleplayer game POV

 

[Max Caulfield]

Look, she went off on her own because she had to die so the plot could move on.

If we want to blame anyone for her being so dumb and/or the dumbness of her decision to wander off on her own, let's blame the person that said, "Hey, let's kill of Aerith!"

 

[Max Payne]

That's a cop out. If you blame a character's actions as "THE WRITER DID IT" you can write off everything anyone does as only happening because of the writer's doing and not the character's.

That's a retarded way to look at the story.

 

[Vendel]

SWALLOW IT BITCH!!

That is all I can see now.....

 

[Ryushikaze]

It's still a massive risk seeing as how Sephiroth and his Jenova puppet were clearly to not be fucked with. It took all of Avalanche to survive their encounters with them before she ran off.

How did she think she would survive running into them? Or did she just think she could outrun them long enough to do what she had to and get back? She wasn't exactly that strong or swift, y'know.

I'm guessing she was banking on 'he doesn't know where I'm going, if I can evade him long enough'

I'll just say this then: in a classic pen and paper game, do you go solo somewhere alone - potentially dangerous - while leaving your team behind?

NO. Especially not if you're the healer because it means you cannot survive for a long time - heck even in D&D where healers sustain a lot of damages, it's better if they're with someone.

Everyone knows it's a bad decision. Aerith made a dumb decision, because that's something you just don't do, no matter what, when you're in a team AND a healer on top of that.

She wasn't dumb, but the decision that cost her her life WAS. Of course she didn't know she was going to die and all, but you just don't do that, period.

/end of roleplayer game POV

Point of order. CODZilla. Healers can TANK.

 

[Dashell]

I'll just say this then: in a classic pen and paper game, do you go solo somewhere alone - potentially dangerous - while leaving your team behind?

Does Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga count?

what about in FFX when Yuna is alone in the dungeon? I guess that doesn't count because she didn't do it herself, right?

 

[Dashell]

So Alex managed to bring up a really good point in his essay. For all those saying that Aerith and Zack were always together and side by side... Aerith confronts Sephiroth in Case of Lifestream White... but she's not strong enough to deal with him so she retreats. So... why didn't she get Zack to come along right there? She could have used him right there to help her deal with Seph but she didn't. Why not?

 

[Vendel]

So Alex managed to bring up a really good point in his essay. For all those saying that Aerith and Zack were always together and side by side... Aerith confronts Sephiroth... but she's not strong enough to deal with him. So... why didn't she get Zack to come along right there? She could have used him right there to help her deal with Seph but she didn't. Why not?

Him being dead might have hampered that plan a bit Q.

 

[Tennyo]

You mean in the Lifestream?

 

[Dashell]

Him being dead might have hampered that plan a bit Q.

...

WTF? So is Aerith and Sephiroth...

OH I'm talking about the lifestream XD

You mean in the Lifestream?

Yes sorry, I forgot to mention Alex's essay was about Lifestream White.

 

[Vendel]

You mean in the Lifestream?

If Aerith with her specual cetra powers couldn't confront him, then what would bringing anyone else along do?

 

[Tennyo]

Who is saying that Zack was always by her side?

 

[Dashell]

The dengaki profiles say it.

If Aerith with her specual cetra powers couldn't confront him, then what would bringing anyone else along do?

Sephiroth did kill her... and she had her cetra powers then... just saying...

The point is..

If she loves Zack more and what not...why didn't she let Zack help her. Why does she want to do everything all by herself?

 

[Tennyo]

Maybe Zack can't help her. The Cetra patrol the Lifestream while others fade away. That's kind of how it works.

Also, you sure the Dengeki profile is as literal as you make it sound?

 

[Dashell]

do you know how many times I've been told that quote about "At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side." to prove Zack is her true love? Ryu and I have even argued about whether or not they should be taken as evidence of anything.

(http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...ete-character-bio-from-dengeki-ps3/#more-2862)

Maybe Zack can't help her. The Cetra patrol the Lifestream while others fade away. That's kind of how it works.

How would she know though?... she could have "woken up" Zack at any time... but she didn't. She chose to do these things by herself. She also chose not to use remnants and what not to see Cloud... why?

 

[Vendel]

How would she know though?... she could have "woken up" Zack at any time... but she didn't. She chose to do these things by herself. She also chose not to use remnants and what not to see Cloud... why?

We have already established why Q. Aerith is an idiot.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Explain to me how Aerith bringing Zack, a normal human spirit in the Lifestream, would help her against Sephiroth. Define what "help" could be given to a being who can't sustain his individuality in the lifestream on his own.

And how the fuck would she not know, since she's a Cetra, already capable and knowledgeable in keeping her own form, creating a cure for Geostigma, and figuring out how Sephiroth intended to create remnants with his will.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I've got a few minutes, started reading this thread and went WTF at this:

Aeris went off alone because she realized that Cloud, as a sleeper agent, was the biggest obstacle to her success, which is why she was all like "Don't follow me!" in his dreams. If Cloud hadn't been obsessed with finding her, she probably would have prayed for Holy in secret, and then come back to everyone.

WHY is no one jumping on that. CLOUD did NOT want to GO. Tifa has to drag his ass after Aerith. Bwuahahahaha, obsessed? Hardly.

And you don't find it retarded at all that Aerith is all: "Don't follow me...but if you do this is where I am?" Come on, either give the girl some credit or make her into a complete drooler.

The act of going off alone is stupid. Her REASONS aren't in question. Is this really that hard to follow?

The reason she dies at all is because Cloud led everyone - including Sephiroth - there. I suppose that's the source of your guilt right thar.

Sephiroth was ALREADY fucking there. CLOUD tells you this. He can feel him there. Cloud didn't lead Sephy boy anywhere.

I also find it ironic that when you meet Aeris, she wants Cloud to be close to her, but despite her efforts to distance herself, Cloud being close to her is the reason she dies!

Bzzzt! wrong.

This's been fun, I'm peacing for a few hours. This LTD thing is like a goddamn full-time job.

Only if you are Mako or Ryu.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Explain to me how Aerith bringing Zack, a normal human spirit in the Lifestream, would help her against Sephiroth. Define what "help" could be given to a being who can't sustain his individuality in the lifestream on his own.

And how the fuck would she not know, since she's a Cetra, already capable and knowledgeable in keeping her own form, creating a cure for Geostigma, and figuring out how Sephiroth intended to create remnants with his will.

Am I misremembering...doesn't Aerith confront Sephiroth before she is aware that she can pull individual consciousness up from the Lifestream? **is confused** I guess I'll have to reread it, but I kind of thought she believed it to be one on one and then realizes Sephy made clones from consciousness and was like... "wait a minute...."

Could be wrong.

 

[Strangelove]

Case of Lifestream White

It's not really 'Case of Lifestream', just 'Lifestream White/Black'. (To get really pedantic, the full novel doesn't use 'Case of' for the other chapters, replacing it with 'Episode [name]' instead. IIRC Lifestream didn't even get that.)