LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Homura Akemi]

I'm going to be entirely honest and say that when I first watched Advent Children, Clerith seemed obvious and Cloti wasn't even a blip on the radar. As someone that had not yet wet her feet in the FF7 fandom at the time, I think that the original Advent Children was pretty hit-and-miss on what pairing was canon. Advent Children Complete fixes a lot of that, but the fixes are subtle. If a person doesn't want to see them and is watching it with the same mindset they got from the first version, they will still walk away from it thinking Aerith was the one Cloud loved, and it'll be pretty easy to do.

I totaly agree with you for me I went backwards with final fantasy 7

I first play kingdom hearts..then I watched advent children..then I played dirge of Cerberus...then crisis core...then finally the FF7 on ps1
--
it was only untill I played the game I became a full fledged CloTi

 

[Homura Akemi]

I remember a time were I did not know about any final fantasy 7 stuff, and watched the part in kingdom hearts were cloud says to aerith "its nothing,..I dont want to get you involved", and thinking aww what a cute couple...I can say most clerith will only get as far as kingdom hearts.

 

[Raquelborn]

I think that the original Advent Children was pretty hit-and-miss on what pairing was canon. Advent Children Complete fixes a lot of that, but the fixes are subtle.

The only thing I can see that ACC does more is have Cloud save her from a falling building. A second prod at his "I promise".

Even then it's strongly associated with his failure to save Aerith beforehand so, for a diehard Clerith, it's either saying Cloud is saving Tifa in memory of Aerith and therefore the whole act revolves his love for the one who's already dead, or he now sees Tifa how he previously saw Aerith which puts you onto the "he loves/could love both" and/or "he moved on" track.

 

[Lily Ella]

I'm surprised then. I don't know of many people who've watched AC without any FFVII knowledge... but of those few people, most thought that Cloud/Tifa were pretty obvious -- hell, they live together, and have two kids together. So I'm kind of wondering... why weren't they a blip on your radar (like, did you think that they were siblings)?

 

[Raquelborn]

I'm surprised then. I don't know of many people who've watched AC without any FFVII knowledge... but of those few people, most thought that Cloud/Tifa were pretty obvious -- hell, they live together, and have two kids together. So I'm kind of wondering... why weren't they a blip on your radar (like, did you think that they were siblings)?

I referred to "diehard Cleriths" for a reason, I am not one of them.

Although I am one of these people who watched AC without any knowledge. If you're interested, I didn't find Cloud and Tifa obvious, but I found them the most heavily hinted at to have the deeper, or at least more romantic, connection. Aerith certainly seemed important to Cloud but she seemed more like a deceased sister. At the same time however, they obviously weren't siblings so I got confused.

It took for someone to point out the "realised their feelings for each other" Ultimania quote for me to be sure convinced that Cloud and Tifa are the canon couple.

As far as the children are concerned by the way, it wasn't obvious in AC that they were pretty much their own adopted children. Especially since AC's stroyline is so wickedly confusing to someone who know's nothing of FFVII that half the time you're just trying to remember who's on what side and what the hell is Jenova etc., nevermind the orphans.

 

[Super Mario]

And we don't care, nor do the devs.

 

[Vendel]

The only thing I can see that ACC does more is have Cloud save her from a falling building. A second prod at his "I promise".

It also makes it clear that Cloud leaves to protect his family. Not to mention de-emphasizing his interactions with Aerith by using more Zack. Also let us not forget the heavy Zerith implications with the two added scenes at the end.

And yes yet another reference of the promise between C/T.

Nothing subtle about that.

 

[Raquelborn]

It also makes it clear that Cloud leaves to protect his family. Not to mention de-emphasizing his interactions with Aerith by using more Zack.

Ah, yes. This is true.

And yes yet another reference of the promise between C/T.

Nothing subtle about that.

That mutual crush of theirs constantly popping up should say something in itself, even before ACC.

 

[Vendel]

Ah, yes. This is true.

If you keep agreeing with me like this I'll end up buying you a piano.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

it was Tifa who fell in love with the Zack part of Cloud, not Aerith.

Actually, whenever Cloud tries to act like a suave macho SOLDIER, Tifa always has a WTF reaction to it, mainly because she does not associate that with Cloud.
You will notice that Aeris encourages/plays along when this happens. That is because she is attracted to the Zack in Cloud for a large part of the game.

Even the optional dialogue that's player controlled will have Tifa WTFing if you say things like "next to you who wouldn't sleep well"

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

It also makes it clear that Cloud leaves to protect his family.

I find it funny that something as simple as that makes ACC so much better than the original. Cloud can be weak, but he's not a total pussy. It was nice to see him grow a set.

Not to mention de-emphasizing his interactions with Aerith by using more Zack. Also let us not forget the heavy Zerith implications with the two added scenes at the end.

And yes yet another reference of the promise between C/T.

Nothing subtle about that.

That made the movie better too

Actually, whenever Cloud tries to act like a suave macho SOLDIER, Tifa always has a WTF reaction to it, mainly because she does not associate that with Cloud.
You will notice that Aeris encourages/plays along when this happens. That is because she is attracted to the Zack in Cloud for a large part of the game.

Even the optional dialogue that's player controlled will have Tifa WTFing if you say things like "next to you who wouldn't sleep well"

Well said. I remembered the creator quotes saying Tifa supported Cloud's mentally weak side, but I forgot about her reactions to the optional dialogue. Also, "Next to you, who wouldn't sleep well?" gave me the mistaken impression Cloud was a pimp the first time I played. Funny line...

 

[Loxetta]

I'm surprised then. I don't know of many people who've watched AC without any FFVII knowledge... but of those few people, most thought that Cloud/Tifa were pretty obvious -- hell, they live together, and have two kids together. So I'm kind of wondering... why weren't they a blip on your radar (like, did you think that they were siblings)?

I didn't think they were siblings, but it just didn't hit me that they were a couple. It didn't seem like it was stressed enough. AC expects you to know Cloud and Tifa are together before you even hit play, it doesn't show it outright. You have to read Case Of Tifa. So when I watched it, I got the impression that Cloud more or less lived on his bike, going around from place to place on his deliveries and never really stayed at Seventh Heaven very long when he did, and that Tifa was more of a 'single mom' to the kids than anything. And on the other side of the coin, I thought the church was just a place he crashed and that it held no significance in regards to Aerith

While I'd figured it out myself later on the internet anyway, ACC certainly made it a lot clearer where Cloud had always been -- when he finds Denzel and says he's taking him home, and his talk with Marlene after the Forgotten City help make the point -- but you still are expected to have read CoT before you watch the movie. Which makes sense since the novellas are meant to be read that way, but when they're all in Japanese and the the movie is released in the US? C'mon, man. Shit's going to be taken out of context by some idiots (like myself ) for certain.

 

[Ryushikaze]

If I had only played KHI, sure I might get that impression... but watching Advent Children? I'm not sure how I'd get that impression. I thought that Advent Children was pretty clear. Seems most people (movie reviewers and the like) thought the same -- that Cloud & Tifa were together.


I heard that she had a crush on him, but that it was pretty one-sided.

Sephiroth was the first man to ever buy a flower from her, so she had a crush on him. This was during the phase when protoCloud was rookie SOLDIER and they were akin to police force.

am I the only one that cant join any clubs...

What are you trying to join and what is your error message?

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Out of the five people I've convinced to watch Advent Children without playing Final Fantasy VII first, four of them thought that Cloud had been in love, and still was in love, with Aerith. They also thought it obvious that Tifa was interested in Cloud, and thought it a one-sided thing.

The other person didn't notice, didn't care, and fell asleep before the end.

Also, the thought of Sephiroth buying a flower makes me want to throw up.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I remembered the creator quotes saying Tifa supported Cloud's mentally weak side

Not only that, but when Yuffie says something about Cloud being a pain in the behind, Tifa says "Cloud is Cloud" with a smile. Tifa accepts Cloud as he is. She never tries to change him.

Telling him to get his shit together and stop wallowing in misery is not pushing him to be somethign he is not. It is trying to help him regain his strength. That's what her talk is all about - "remember when we used to kick ass, pussyface? Ja, stop being a baby".

 

[Shadowfox]

Telling him to get his shit together and stop wallowing in misery is not pushing him to be somethign he is not. It is trying to help him regain his strength. That's what her talk is all about - "remember when we used to kick ass, pussyface? Ja, stop being a baby".

Diehard Cleriths who interpret Cloud as a man whose very existence, sanity, desire to live, etc. being tied completely with Aerith's presence and who think that moping and wanting to die is the natural way for him to behave when separated from his true love would definitely see any attempt by Tifa to convince him to get his act together as trying to turn him into something he's not.

 

[Isabella]

Hmmm ... a lead character feeling like that, especially for someone he knew 2 weeks, would totally make for an awesome hero!

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, suicide to rejoin someone they might have possibly fallen for in two weeks time when they were totally oblivious to their advanced and under a massive headscrew TTLY makes for a relatable protaganist.

Please.

That Cloud isn't the main character. He's Jill foster for their Mary Sue fantasies.

 

[Username]

I think its the living one.

 

[Fate]

Um. Hello. I don't post at all because I've never played the game. Sorry. I've been lurking in the LTD threads for months because the humour helps me to get through stressful times, so thank you to everyone here.

Just want to say that I watched the movie first, and I found CloudXTifa to be an obvious pairing.. to me.

 

[Isabella]

Welcome, Fate. I think we all use humor to maintain our sanity to a certain degree.

Have you thought about watching the game on YouTube? There are also links to the script somewhere around here too. Not as good as actually playing but it's an option if you can't get your hands on the game/don't have time to play it.

 

[Fate]

Hm. I did think of it, and I've watched 39% of the cutscenes. I try to watch only when my family's not around though, because they kind of poke fun at me for watching other people play video games.

 

[Username]

and I've watched 39% of the cutscenes..

See i've watched about 57%.

I try to watch only when my family's not around though, because they kind of poke fun at me for watching other people play video games.

Take a stand.

 

[Vendel]

Out of the five people I've convinced to watch Advent Children without playing Final Fantasy VII first, four of them thought that Cloud had been in love, and still was in love, with Aerith. They also thought it obvious that Tifa was interested in Cloud, and thought it a one-sided thing.

I have trouble wrapping my head around how someone can see Clerith from AC. Now I have played FFVII but I had not read OTWTAS. Nor was I really interested in the LTD.

But it didn't take massive deductive reasoning to see Cloud was at one point living with Tifa and the children(and all that implies). And nothing stuck out to me about Cloud or Aeriths's actions. It did not seem romantic to me. If anything Cloud just appeared unnecessarily depressed.

A side note:It took me reading one pink AC essay to realize they were nuts. Thank goodness I found this forum.

 

[Dashell]

Thank goodness I found this forum.

Because... you would have exploded if you hadn't?