LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

The one he lives with or the dead one?

  • Living

    Votes: 96 88.9%
  • Dead

    Votes: 12 11.1%

  • Total voters
    108
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Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
I think that's a weird thing to ask for.

I do see this matter as Cloud's choice more than the developers'. Sure, they wrote Cloud to be the character he is, and his feelings, thoughts are due to how his story unfolds and how the developers themselves perceive and shape his character. But there does come a point where the character himself, once he's 'come to life', makes the choices on his own and the authors simply follow.

"The reason why we decided that Cloud would end up with Tifa is that it was the choice that made the most sense to the plot. Also the game shows he has feelings for her near the end, so we decided it seemed best to go with that."

That's kind of what they've said already, imho. lol
 

Goodbye Charlie

Rising Chest-Bank Protestor
I can't speak for FFG or most of them, but Anastar once said that she'd expect a section in an Ultimania devoted to the topic. Seems like we got it.

Now, while the "For the One I Love" section isn't only about FFVII's romantic love, it is a section devoted to romantic love, and FFVII isn't left out.

Bottomline, with any emotive issue, there is no wish for a rational answer, unless it supports the emotive issue. What she really wanted was an Ultimania topic devoted to why Aeris and Cloud were and always will be, infinite lovers. I'm sure she might like another that had the creators laughing at the silly Cloti and neutrals for their crazy ideas. Maybe another devoted to her forums and website for keeping the truth alive against the world of crazy common sensers. You get my point.

Of course, she said she also expected the developers to give their reasons for choosing one woman or the other in said section, but that always seemed unreasonable to me. They never offered a justification for any of their other decisions that affected fan controversies, such as the Puppet Master Debate.

Precisely. Do creators ever go through each issue and explain their reasoning? Of course they don't. Not because they're afraid of the fans, not because they don't think there is an answer, more because they aren't that interested. And yes, quite honestly, I think the story speaks for their reasoning.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
And yes, quite honestly, I think the story speaks for their reasoning.

Really, it does.

They don't say "This is why I had this character behave like this." Ever.

If anything, they would say "I hope players can make up their own minds about why the character would do that based on their understanding of the character." And even if they did offer an opinion on it, they'd phrase it in terms of it being their own opinion based on their own understanding of the character.
 

Fighter

Pro Adventurer
Or she knows that a section in Ultimania that spoon feeds everything to you like to little children is not going to happen. So she can feel secure in her denial.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Seems like every time they say "X would solve the LTD" it actually happens then they say "No wait.. Y would solve the love triangle."
 
Or she knows that a section in Ultimania that spoon feeds everything to you like to little children is not going to happen. So she can feel secure in her denial.
Pretty much.

HAHA, the LTD is Serious Fucking Business. Except it's not.
These are the people who think that SE puts little clerith "hints" into everything, as if the LTD itself is a game.

They don't realize that when Cloud and Aerith show up in tactics they weren't thinking, "we totally want people to think this is a clue to Cloud's love interest."

Most likely it was, "Who would fans like to see? Cloud and Aeris? Sounds good. Hey let's have them do a similar scene to when they meet in the game. That'll be fun for fans of FFVII and is iconic enough for people who played casually."

Or, "Cloud's going to stand in flowers at the end of Dissidia as a hint towards clerith."

When it's actually, "Cloud's story in Dissidia talks about a world full of flowers. Yellow flowers were something special in FFVII. Let's have him walk into those."

So when you think everything is a little hint and that they are doing this all on purpose, of course you think the answer will be given in a huge, press confence style, interview with follow up questions detailing why an answer has finally been reached.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
In honor of my topic here:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?p=204411

I've decided to spread the good word


(10:02:18 PM) Quex: cloti is canon
(10:02:21 PM) bot3: No thanks, pal. I'd rather spend an hour or two on the light while she was sailling up the show for you with one tiny flaw we can do?
(10:02:23 PM) GilliganBot: You are going to the show.
(10:02:24 PM) bot3: You are going to do that.
(10:02:27 PM) Quex: cloti
(10:02:30 PM) JurassicBot: Cloti is canon.


See? The BOTS can learn it :awesome:
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Y'know, what gets me, is that all the 'ZOMFG hints' for Aerith are always 'ZOMFG romantic', but flat out explicit statements for C/T are ABSOLUTELY NEVER ANYTHING OF THE SORT, even when there's no fucking way they make sense as anything fucking else, like the 'for the one I love' page, and any three or four other quotes taken together.

Oh, and how their 'Cloti Cloud' is still the Clerith Cloud in every single way and still wants to romantically be with Aerith.

I get on people's cases for assuming their goddamn consequent all the time because that it what they are doing. Even when they are 'looking at the other point of view' they are assuming their consequent.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
even when there's no fucking way they make sense as anything fucking else, like the 'for the one I love' page, and any three or four other quotes taken together.
They acknowledge "the one that I love" is romantic, but C and T having sex isn't... I think

The bots don't have a club dedicated to wanting to see Cloud shirtless.
... yet :shifty:


EDIT:
okay I have no idea how they got this one:

(10:22:21 PM) Quex: clerith
(10:22:25 PM) FrasierBot: Because of the empire club about niles): you'd be hard-pressed to find a bigger snob in the butt.
(10:22:26 PM) GilliganBot: Is in the butt.
(10:22:27 PM) JurassicBot: That i'd like to get to know what in the butt.
(10:22:28 PM) RobotMaster: So are you in the butt.
 
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Isabella

Your Mom
They acknowledge "the one that I love" is romantic, but C and T having sex isn't... I think

So Cloud having meaningless, horny sex with Tifa is preferable to him actually loving her. Is that the bottom line?
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
So Cloud having meaningless, horny sex with Tifa is preferable to him actually loving her. Is that the bottom line?

Basically... which I don't get "Okay the page is about romantic love... so Cloud and Tifa have romantic feelings... and they also have sex, but the sex isn't romantic...".

what?


and oh god now I really screwed them up

(10:28:51 PM) Quex: the shirtless cloud is nervous
(10:28:55 PM) JurassicBot: Cloud is shirtless.
(10:29:05 PM) RobotMaster: Is that a group of dinosaurs drinking at the unemployment office and i want to be out or i'd pick up the time is in the back seat, clutching our car sickness bags, straining to see cloud shirtless?
(10:29:05 PM) PerfectStrangeb: Don't you see the shirtless cloud who is a computer program, and i want them right now. I don't have is to see.
(10:29:08 PM) PerfectStrangeb: Our goal for this evening is to see.


okay NOW they want to see Cloud shirtless :monster:
(okay Ill stop sorry)
 
I just still can't believe they are even acknowledging the sex. I mean, shouldn't they be twisting what "without words" means?

But here I am trying to understand how their thought process works. Silly me. :awesome:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I think all their twisting creativity got burnt out with "Cloud is Tifa's ideal love" and the church being Cloud's promised land, not the who, but the church is connected to Aerith so Aerith is his promised land even though it's not the who.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Y'know, what gets me, is that all the 'ZOMFG hints' for Aerith are always 'ZOMFG romantic', but flat out explicit statements for C/T are ABSOLUTELY NEVER ANYTHING OF THE SORT, even when there's no fucking way they make sense as anything fucking else, like the 'for the one I love' page, and any three or four other quotes taken together.
You have no idea how absolutely dumbfounded I was that anything about Cloud in Aerith's profile or anything about Aerith in Cloud's was a hint. And yet Tifa and Cloud having confessed feelings for each other without words means that they were clearly running away from each other.
 

Isabella

Your Mom
Ultimania: Cloud's meeting with Aerith sets him on a new path.
Clerith: OMG IT'S LOVE

Ultimania: Cloud and Tifa communicate their feelings without words.
Clerith: REJECTION
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Ultimania: Cloud and Tifa communicate their feelings without words.
Okay once again, they acknowledge... well at least the majority of them accept that this was romantic now. Their defense is that this only happened in the High Affection scene. yes the rejection thing was pretty ridonkulous, but it's over now.

Or you realize this and you don't care :monster:
 
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DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Ultimania: Cloud's meeting with Aerith sets him on a new path.
Clerith: OMG IT'S LOVE

Ultimania: Cloud and Tifa communicate their feelings without words.
Clerith: REJECTION

Rejected.jpg


I'm glad I took all those Photoshopping classes, they were worth every penny!

EDIT - New OTP - Cloud's hairxAerith's voice
 
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Winter

8ad 8r8k
AKA
oddishness, like vines, azula, femshep, winter
Yes. Because we aren't talking about Canon!Aerith but Clerith!Aerith, who is essentially a proxy for the girls' (despite certain members' age, I cannot think of any of them as anything but girls) own desires. And as established on numerous occasions, several of them have a crush on Cloud, and want Aerith (themself) to win.
I see this a lot and oh my god it makes me fucking rage.

AERITH IS NOT A PERFECT PRINCESS PROJECTION OF EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO BE. AERITH IS NOT BELLA FROM TWILIGHT, PERFECT MARY SUE AND HELPLESSLY IN LOVE WITH SOME CRAZY DOUCHEBAG.

Insinuating these sort of things is a deep insult to the writers. If you look at who she is in the game and you read some of what the game's creators have said about her in interviews, she's actually one of (in my opinion) SE's most well written and complex heroines.

Underneath her happy exterior is someone who is painfully lonely, and at times almost dark in her nature (she's heard dead people all of her life). She's not a perfect beloved angel social butterfly; as a child she was always different.

Why, when analyzing her character, do even people who claim to like her as a character completely forget these things?

(as a side note, I think both Tifa and Aerith were wonderfully crafted characters, and outside of Crisis Core [I exclude this mostly because tbh I haven't played it] the Compilation and the years of the staff talking and writing about them have only made them richer characters. I like this.)

also forgive any typos I have been drinking hurrrr
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I see this a lot and oh my god it makes me fucking rage.

AERITH IS NOT A PERFECT PRINCESS PROJECTION OF EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO BE. AERITH IS NOT BELLA FROM TWILIGHT, PERFECT MARY SUE AND HELPLESSLY IN LOVE WITH SOME CRAZY DOUCHEBAG.

Insinuating these sort of things is a deep insult to the writers. If you look at who she is in the game and you read some of what the game's creators have said about her in interviews, she's actually one of (in my opinion) SE's most well written and complex heroines.

Underneath her happy exterior is someone who is painfully lonely, and at times almost dark in her nature (she's heard dead people all of her life). She's not a perfect beloved angel social butterfly; as a child she was always different.

Why, when analyzing her character, do even people who claim to like her as a character completely forget these things?

(as a side note, I think both Tifa and Aerith were wonderfully crafted characters, and outside of Crisis Core [I exclude this mostly because tbh I haven't played it] the Compilation and the years of the staff talking and writing about them have only made them richer characters. I like this.)

also forgive any typos I have been drinking hurrrr

Thank you. A lot of this echoes my own sentiments. I like FF7's characters, Aerith especially, because she is so flawed.
Even typical Hero Zack has his own flaw of being king dorkus of dorkenstein, hyperactive, etc. etc. etc.


Also, Idle thought- Anyone ever seen the Fatal Fury OVAS? Terry Bogard is the kind of man the Cleriths want Cloud to be, right down to the never getting over his lost love. Or his next lost love either.
Problem is, if Cloud's a Bogard, he ain't Terry. He's Andy.

Edit: DAMMIT BRAIN! STOP MAKING FINAL FANTASY 7 INTO FATAL FURY SEVEN. EVEN IF IT IS UTTERLY HILARIOUS!
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
GUYS! Did you see this?
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3853

Hi Plant miracles for everyone:Make the most of your garden, now is the perfect time to learn how the magic revolution of Mephedrone 4 MMC can help

OMG This screams Clerith to me!! It's talking about a MIRACLE GARDEN! Aerith was always seen as gardening! And Cloud goes into that garden at the end of Safe and Sound! And it talks about a miracle and magic which is romantic! SO CLERITH!!!!
clorithsmiley1.gif


Developed only 2 years ago this product is a plant feeder with a secret nutritional formula which makes your plants thrive.
2 years was how long Aerith and Cloud were parted!! Then it talks about plants "thriving" which is another word for "coming to life" Aerith "thrives" or "comes to life" with this formula allowing Cloud to love her :D
fgirl.gif


Pounds enough to feed 4 large plants FREE Postage Signed Delivery.99.8 percent Mephedrone 4 MMC via mail order
It talks about feeding FOUR! This is obviously a reference to when AFTER CLoud will leave Tifa for Aerith and Tifa, Barret, Marlene and Denzel wil become the family of 4!!
clorithsmiley1.gif


Secret nutritional formula which makes plants TWICE AS BIG
That should speak for itself lol get it? ;)

LARGE CRYSTALS Instock
CRYSTALS! LIke Cloud's materia in Dissidia which was Aerith's holy Materia!

THIS IS SO FULL OF CLERITH IT'S UNBELIVABLE!!! I'm so excited, I can't wait for this :D
clorithsmiley1.gif








I KNOW YOU DON'T TALK LIKE THIS! It's a joke.
 
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