LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Isabella]

Ok, first of all, the argument isn't that Cloud can't continue to love her after death. The argument is, he hasn't been proven to love her in life. You need one before you can have the other.

Second, I'm curious what the Pure, Unspoiled One had in mind when he stole Tifa's panties. Maybe he intended to donate them to the poor, homeless, panty-less woman down the street?

 

[Winter]

What's the quote in question? I don't think I've heard it.

 

[Tennyo]

You might say that.

Spoiler

Um... I'm confused. Cloud isn't going to like girls because Denzel idolizes him? Is she sure she isn't misreading anything.

That actually sounds really wrong. Like, REALLY REALLY wrong, and not in just an incorrect trivia answer way. :/

 

[Vendel]

Ok, first of all, the argument isn't that Cloud can't continue to love her after death. The argument is, he hasn't been proven to love her in life. You need one before you can have the other.

Not to mention the inability to have an active relationship with a dead woman.

Second, I'm curious what the Pure, Unspoiled One had in mind when he stole Tifa's panties. Maybe he intended to donate them to the poor, homeless, panty-less woman down the street?

What I want to know is how a man so disinterested in sex with a live woman is so longing for a spiritual quickie. Wouldn't that make him rather......odd?

I also don't know who these people are that think Cloud is some man-whore who just wants Tifa for sex. Most sane people assume they are in a relationship based on love. They also assume Cloud gives her the ole buster sword now and then. Why is this considered a bad thing?

Um... I'm confused. Cloud isn't going to like girls because Denzel idolizes him? Is she sure she isn't misreading anything.

That actually sounds really wrong. Like, REALLY REALLY wrong, and not in just an incorrect trivia answer way. :/

No it's saying Denzel is copying Cloud. And since Denzel isn't interested in girls ATM that must mean Cloud isn't. Because Denzel is copying him.

 

[Dashell]

Does anyone have a the exact quote in question? I'd like to know the context ,was it something like "Will Denzel notice girls?" or what?

Um... I'm confused. Cloud isn't going to like girls because Denzel idolizes him? Is she sure she isn't misreading anything.

oh god you would make that 10 times creepier... Denzel isn't going to notice girls for a while, not Cloud.

Wouldn't that make him rather......odd?

It's Cloud dude, haven't you been paying attention?

Also I think Anastar is the one who said the "THe One I love" scan means C and T had sex but it didn't mean anything, not FFG. FFG doesn't believe they had sex.

Ok, first of all, the argument isn't that Cloud can't continue to love her after death. The argument is, he hasn't been proven to love her in life. You need one before you can have the other.

Optional scene is optional.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

I was just chortling about that quote on the previous page from Fox about the query that Aeris and Cloud could have been a couple if things had been different and there was no Tifa.

Beauty is, the Cleris angle NEEDS Tifa and Cloud's devotion to her (or is it faith in her?) to substantiate their fantasy. They need Cloud to have gone to Shira to impress Tifa, they need Cloud to have met Zack, and to be emulating Zack's mannerisms and traits to create that precious chemistry that "might" have sparked a relationship if it hadn't been for those things that, erm, created that chemistry. And also of course, if Tifa hadn't been around, Cloud would never have gone to Shinra, probably died in Nibelheim, Zack wouldn't have necessarily died protecting Cloud on the trip back, might have made it back to Midgar, and lived on with Aeris... gah, fails that way too! Aeris ends with Zack.

Of course I'm being flippant, fiction is bendable in any direction - but my point stands is the precious chemistry between Cloud and Aeris is a side-effect of their personal legacies to Tifa and Zack respectively (or the other way round for some shippers...). It sucks, but on the face of it, Cleris is nothing but a fantasy with no way to really ground it in the FF7 lore without major, major revisions that change the characters we know and love.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

... the paring is kinky and intriguing. Blood or not she is basically his sister.

Fixéd.

 

[Celes Chere]

Cloud loves Tifa.

^This means I'm reading and might edit later but most likely will result in cba

 

[Shadowfox]

I was just chortling about that quote on the previous page from Fox about the query that Aeris and Cloud could have been a couple if things had been different and there was no Tifa.

For some Cleriths, that may just be the closest thing to admitting that Clerith isn't canon and that Cloud and Tifa are together.

 

[Tennyo]

Fixéd.

You are a disgusting, perverted man.

 

[Celes Chere]

So that's what Tres REALLY looks like.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

For some Cleriths, that may just be the closest thing to admitting that Clerith isn't canon and that Cloud and Tifa are together.

Sure. But just because you make a leap across the chasm, doesn't mean you've jumped far enough to reach the other side. If you listen closely, you'll hear the sound of many high pitched wails from the pink waters down in the depths...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You are a disgusting, perverted man.

<333

 

[Tennyo]

I don't say that with love, Tres. </3

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm aware.

 

[Isabella]

Ok so it's the next morning and I'm still chuckling at that post that vendel posted last night. Cloud's not interested in sex or girls! He's only seeking True Love! Stop projecting yourselves onto him, you filthy, horny fanboys!

First of all, I'd argue most rpg heroes are actually designed for horny adolescent boys to project themselves on. But beyond that, since when are shy, introverted people not interested in sex? Especially at the age of 21? Interest, even preoccupation with sex isn't freakish for young men; it's the norm. That some fans fantasize about a hero who's too pure for that is rather revealing. I can see why some Cleriths (no LV, I'm not saying all) are drawn to a love story in which scary sex can't be a factor.

 

[Vendel]

First of all, I'd argue most rpg heroes are actually designed for horny adolescent boys to project themselves on. But beyond that, since when are shy, introverted people not interested in sex? Especially at the age of 21? Interest, even preoccupation with sex isn't freakish for young men; it's the norm. That some fans fantasize about a hero who's too pure for that is rather revealing. I can see why some Cleriths (no LV, I'm not saying all) are drawn to a love story in which scary sex can't be a factor.

I suppose everyone has a different definition of what "scary sex" is.

From the same post.

Clearly, Aerith can produce a physical manifestation, or she would not have been able to boost Cloud upward during his battle with Bahamut-Sin in AC/ACC. This is just one more reason why death means nothing to Cloud and Aerith's relationship. Cloud is fully capable of hearing Aerith, speaking to her, and even touching her. So, what's stopping them from being together?

I'm sure we can all figure out the implications of that.

Emphisis added by me.

 

[Isabella]

Ah but it's pure, soul melding sex. Not that kinky kind, which is the only kind he could ever have with Tifa.

Also love how Aerith's death is no obstacle to their "relationship." guess death is meaningless, eh? Merely an inconvenience. So much for them wanting the player to feel a sudden, irreversible loss. Death is really just like going away to two different colleges. You can hook up on spring break.

 

[Fighter]

Being horny for the woman you willingly chose to move in with, want to protect, want to be there for her to cheer her up, think everything will be alright as long as she's with you, feel happy living as a family with, be depressed when you fail her -- is shallow hormonal skirt-chasing?

Strange, I always though that's what love means.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Clerith: Well, sure she's dead, but how can that stop them from being in love and together.

Sane Person: She's, uhm...dead.

Clerith: Yeah, and?

SP: That pretty much puts a damper on any love-story.

Clerith: Soooo wrong. It only enhances their love, because now it's a love that can never be.

SP: But, you just said they were in love and together--it can't be a love that cannot be, and they're in a relationship. That completely disqualifies itself.

Clerith: Stop being a retard. Cloud loves Aerith and she loves him, beyond death. Death matters not when love is completely chaste and pure!!

SP: So Cloud remains forever faithful and pure while waiting to die to be with Aerith?

Clerith: No need. She can manifest herself for him and that way they can express their love for one another.

SP: Physically?

Clerith: Absolutely.

SP: Uh-huh... **backs away slowly**

 

[Dashell]

I'd have the kinky kind of sex with Tifa

SP: That pretty much puts a damper on any love-story.

Romeo and Juliet, and to be fair it's not about who Cloud can be with, it's who he loves. This has always been argued. But the manifest thing always was quite a bit odd to me...

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I'd have the kinky kind of sex with Tifa


Romeo and Juliet, and to be fair it's not about who Cloud can be with, it's who he loves. This has always been argued. But the manifest thing always was quite a bit odd to me...

Romeo and Juliet? How?

One didn't die and the other remain deeply in love for a lifetime.

They killed themselves in a tragedy of teen-wangst and confusion. Not even remotely close.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ok, first of all, the argument isn't that Cloud can't continue to love her after death. The argument is, he hasn't been proven to love her in life. You need one before you can have the other.

Admitting that they haven't proven that is a step FFG isn't ready to take. Conclusory Assumpsit is SOP with FFG.

Second, I'm curious what the Pure, Unspoiled One had in mind when he stole Tifa's panties. Maybe he intended to donate them to the poor, homeless, panty-less woman down the street?

Ever played Chrono Trigger? Ozziepants are nothing compared to Tifapantsu.

Um... I'm confused. Cloud isn't going to like girls because Denzel idolizes him? Is she sure she isn't misreading anything.

That actually sounds really wrong. Like, REALLY REALLY wrong, and not in just an incorrect trivia answer way. :/

Look who it's saying it.

Not to mention the inability to have an active relationship with a dead woman.

What I want to know is how a man so disinterested in sex with a live woman is so longing for a spiritual quickie. Wouldn't that make him rather......odd?

And ClerithCloud isn't normally one?

I also don't know who these people are that think Cloud is some man-whore who just wants Tifa for sex. Most sane people assume they are in a relationship based on love. They also assume Cloud gives her the ole buster sword now and then. Why is this considered a bad thing?

Because Tifa is 'EvilBadIckyNo'

No it's saying Denzel is copying Cloud. And since Denzel isn't interested in girls ATM that must mean Cloud isn't. Because Denzel is copying him.

Uh, Denzel, WILL act uninterested in girls 'for a time', in emulation of Cloud. For the slow, this is referring to Disc 1 Cloud, who had no clue two hot chicks were blatantly coming onto him.

So that's what Tres REALLY looks like.

He is an Ewok, yes.

 

[Isabella]

I think FHS's point is how inconsistent they are. Out of one side of their mouth they say it's a love that can never be (yet is), that Cloud will continue to love her despite not being with her. Out of the other side they talk about physical manifestations and how they are always together and their relationship is virtually normal.

To be fair, it's not always the same Cleriths saying all of the above. Let's say there are two branches of Clerithism: The "he'll love her forever despite not being with her" branch and the "they have regular conversations and she manifests for the loving" branch.

And don't even bring up Romeo and Juliet. It's not love beyond death because they both died, and because it was never love to begin with. They knew each other for a few fucking hours before they married. It's about obsession and about the destructive power of hate.

 

[Dashell]

I understood your (FHS's) argument as "Death puts a damper on any love story." Okay fine...

Monk, how's that?

To be fair, it's not always the same Cleriths saying all of the above. Let's say there are two branches of Clerithism: The "he'll love her forever despite not being with her" branch and the "they have regular conversations and she manifests for the loving" branch.

Sounds good.