LTD Who did Aerith love?

[Dashell]

here we go:

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=273188&postcount=2900

I'm still fuzzy on what you meant by this. The opening shenanigans of DC took place the night that Hojo died and Shin-Ra fell.

Yeah, it originally was written to have taken place post-Sephy's demise, but that was a continuity blunder for so many reasons, and Case of Shin-Ra retconned it.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Ahh I haven't seen it... but is Dissidia in it? Do you consider Dissidia to be non canon then?

Dissidia is a special case because it was never intended to be part of the Compilation, but from my understanding the creators have not only stated that it is canon, but they have also explicitly stated that Dissidia is actually intended to supersede the canon of other games if at any places it contradicts them. To be honest I regard Dissidia as little more than a side-story, especially since the creators of many of the games from which Dissidia incorporates characters are no longer even with the company, but the current intention of Squenix as it exists today is clearly for it to be completely canon.

 

[Dashell]

Dissidia is a special case because it was never intended to be part of the Compilation, but from my understanding the creators have not only stated that it is canon, but they have also explicitly stated that Dissidia is actually intended to supersede the canon of other games if at any places it contradicts them. To be honest I regard Dissidia as little more than a side-story, especially since the creators of many of the games from which Dissidia incorporates characters are no longer even with the company, but the current intention of Squenix as it exists today is clearly for it to be completely canon.

True they did say it was an official entry. What about things like ... I can never spell it right but that Whatever Street Special? IS anything in there canon to you? You know, the board game thingy. Or the other fighting game. Is that anything?

Money.

This was SquareSOFT.

The Compilation did not exist. It wasn't even a glimmer in the eye of any of the FFVII staff.

Make up a story revolving around the events of FFVII in order to sell more copies of the book as a marketing ploy and make money.

That's probably all it was.

That's not true. The end of the UO lists Crisis Core, Before Crisis, Dirge, Last Order, Advent Children and all of them. and right afterwards is Maiden.

EDIT
They hadn't been released yet, but they were at least thinking about all of them.

 

[Tennyo]

here we go:

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=273188&postcount=2900

But you do realize retconning the opening of DoC was not done with the idea in mind that they have to make sure Maiden fits, right?

It was because having the stuff that takes place in that scene happen during Meteor didn't make sense on their own. The Highwind dropped Vincent and Yuffie off to help in the city and then the rest of the group just flew around watching?

That scene was apparently supposed to explain why Vincent and Yuffie were not in the last FMV of FFVII, which was kind of dumb for them to try to do.

Not at any moment did anyone even consider Maiden.

True they did say it was an official entry. What about things like ... I can never spell it right but that Whatever Street Special? IS anything in there canon to you? You know, the board game thingy. Or the other fighting game. Is that anything?

Are you just making a Stretch for the sake of argument? Of course Itadaki has nothing to do with the canon of FFVII. If you must, consider it AU.

 

[Ⓐaron]

True they did say it was an official entry. What about things like ... I can never spell it right but that Whatever Street Special? IS anything in there canon to you? You know, the board game thingy. Or the other fighting game. Is that anything?

As far as I'm aware Itadaki Street Special and Ehrgeiz were never intended to be anything more than side-stories. I'm not sure they were ever even considered to take place in the same universe.

Edit:

That's not true. The end of the UO lists Crisis Core, Before Crisis, Dirge, Last Order, Advent Children and all of them. and right afterwards is Maiden.

EDIT
They hadn't been released yet, but they were at least thinking about all of them.

They might have been planning them, but I believe Tennyo's point is that they hadn't been written yet. In the process of fleshing out a story you're inevitably going to come up with details you hadn't planned for, and there's no real evidence that they even coordinated the inclusion of planned details with the author of Maiden in the first place.

 

[Dashell]

But you do realize retconning the opening of DoC was not done with the idea in mind that they have to make sure Maiden fits, right?

I didn't say it did. I said "It doesn't contradict Maiden."

Are you just making a Stretch for the sake of argument? Of course Itadaki has nothing to do with the canon of FFVII. If you must, consider it AU.

I've seen people use it in debates for different reasons. If people are using them in debates then they must consider them canon, right? So I'm just asking if anything in there could be seen as canon.

As far as I'm aware Itadaki Street Special and Ehrgeiz were never intended to be anything more than side-stories. I'm not sure they were ever even considered to take place in the same universe.

I'm not sure either I guess, I just want to know if you think anything in there is canon at all?

 

[Ⓐaron]

I'm not sure either I guess, I just want to know if you think anything in there is canon at all?

I've never played either, so I have no idea. I think it unlikely though, since I was under the impression they were intended to be AU games. I wouldn't take Cloud et al.'s appearance in those games any more seriously than the Cloud and Aerith that appear in FFT, which as far as I am aware are very explicitly intended not to be the same people as the FFVII characters.

Also, note that I added to my previous post.

 

[Dashell]

They might have been planning them, but I believe Tennyo's point is that they hadn't been written yet. In the process of fleshing out a story you're inevitably going to come up with details you hadn't planned for, and there's no real evidence that they even coordinated the inclusion of planned details with the author of Maiden in the first place.

Well I don't think they needed to honestly. Maiden takes place during FFVII. As long as they kept the original FFVII story in tact (Which, to be fair, they did not) they would be fine.

and again

Maiden does NOT contradict the FFVII story or any other entry. People just say that it does for some reason.

I've never played either, so I have no idea. I think it unlikely though, since I was under the impression they were intended to be AU games. I wouldn't take Cloud et al.'s appearance in those games any more seriously than the Cloud and Aerith that appear in FFT, which as far as I am aware are very explicitly intended not to be the same people as the FFVII characters.

So what I think I'm getting from you is, if it's not said to be canon, it's not canon, right?
To me if they say something in an official book with their logo on it, especially if they call it the Literal Version of FFVII... it's canon.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Well I don't think they needed to honestly. Maiden takes place during FFVII. As long as they kept the original FFVII story in tact (Which, to be fair, they did not) they would be fine.

Not if Maiden contradicts their plan for future materials. Or, for that matter, contradicts unplanned details that emerge in future materials.

and again

Maiden does NOT contradict the FFVII story or any other entry. People just say that it does for some reason.

I'm going to leave this argument to people who have actually read it and played all the games in the Compilation, but there seems to be a lot of disagreement with your statement.

So what I think I'm getting from you is, if it's not said to be canon, it's not canon, right?
To me if they say something in an official book with their logo on it, especially if they call it the Literal Version of FFVII... it's canon.

I think that when Square Enix go out of their way to note that specific material is canon, and meanwhile don't even acknowledge other material, the material they don't acknowledge can be considered not to be canon. It doesn't matter if it was called the "Literal Version of FFVII" or not. Their silence on its existence seems to me to be an attempt to write it out of everyone's memory.

 

[Dashell]

Not if Maiden contradicts their plan for future materials. Or, for that matter, contradicts unplanned details that emerge in future materials.

It didn't though

but w/e as you said, you didn't read it.

I think that when Square Enix go out of their way to note that specific material is canon, and meanwhile don't even acknowledge other material, the material they don't acknowledge can be considered not to be canon. It doesn't matter if it was called the "Literal Version of FFVII" or not. Their silence on its existence seems to me to be an attempt to write it out of everyone's memory.

Okay I can see your point of view, but can you sorta see mine too? That if they publish something in an official book, that it's canon? I don't see why they NEED to say "This is canon!" to me if it's in an official book, it's canon and I don't need them to say so.

 

[Dashell]

I'm also a believer that (and I might not be able to explain this well) you should look at things as the average fan would see them and that the simplest answer is usually correct.

We've had a lot of people come around these parts and site Maiden as an official source, having no idea there's even debate as to whether or not it's official. My POV is that if this many average fans believe it's canon, it probably is. If Square wanted us to think it was NOT canon, they'd have said so like they did with Last Order. I don't want "These ARE canon!" I want "This is NOT canon!"

And to me it's more simple to say, "This is in an official book, ergo canon." than, "Benny was hired to write a piece of fanfiction for a book that's entirely official except that piece of fanfiction.. but nothing in the book it's released it gives any question to its validity... only later stuff does."

Know what I mean? I mean was it canon at some point? When did it become uncanon if so? There's so many questions like that that pop up and it's so much easier to say "It's canon."

EDIT
and sorry for double posting, I was totally expecting someone else to post XD

 

[Ⓐaron]

I can see where you're coming from, but the point is if there are details that are contradicted by other materials that Squenix has officially stated to be canon, then the canonical materials take precedence. I guess one could make a tenuous case that for cases where Maiden isn't contradicted by any of the rest of the Compilation, it could be considered semi-canon. But if Squenix has been given repeated opportunities to acknowledge its canonicity, and has taken none of them, then I would say its status as even semi-canon is debatable at best.

And I don't think what the average fan thinks has much effect. There are plenty of "average fans" who still think that Jenova was in control of Sephiroth, or that Sephiroth personally killed Aerith, or any of dozens of other misunderstandings that likely occur from the shitty translation FFVII received.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And Maiden itself is contradicted by later works of the Compilation, so anyone who plays Dirge of Cerberus or Crisis Core would find Maiden incongruous. And if you're going to argue that a piece of fan fiction is more official and true than the actual video games themselves then...you're crazy.

 

[Dashell]

I can see where you're coming from, but the point is if there are details that are contradicted by other materials that Squenix has officially stated to be canon, then the canonical materials take precedence.

I guess one could make a tenuous case that for cases where Maiden isn't contradicted by any of the rest of the Compilation, it could be considered semi-canon.

I have... and I assure you, there are NO contradictions. You heard WRONG. The ONLY one gets Zack or Aerith's age wrong... that's really not that big of a deal.

But if Squenix has been given repeated opportunities to acknowledge its canonicity, and has taken none of them, then I would say its status as even semi-canon is debatable at best.

I'll take debatable myself

And I don't think what the average fan thinks has much effect. There are plenty of "average fans" who still think that Jenova was in control of Sephiroth, or that Sephiroth personally killed Aerith, or any of dozens of other misunderstandings that likely occur from the shitty translation FFVII received.

Fair enough I guess, I just think they'd be more clear about the things they want us to know for sure.

But can I ask you to please read this? This is a list of so called contradictions and why they aren't contradictions. At least so you don't say "It contradicts" anymore because that just isn't true.

Spoiler: Contradictions in Maiden that are not in fact, contradictions

*Contradiction claim #1: Maiden says that "the entire planet's consciousness was awakened," while her 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile says she used only a "portion" of the Lifestream to stop Meteor.

While at first glance this does seem like a contradiction, no where in Maiden did it say how much of the Lifestream was used to stop Meteor. Yes the entire planet's consciousness was awakened, and everyone was helping, but just because she had the entire Lifestream at her disposal doesn't mean she used all of it. Also the video at the end of the game shows parts of the Lifestream still spreading off the horizion which would mean much of the Lifestream was not actually near Meteor.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #1: These two ideas are not mutually exclusive. This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider compilation.

*Contradiction claim #2: In Maiden, Aerith meets up with Hojo's Spirit, but in Dirge of Cerberus, it is revealed that Hojo's spirit was uploaded into the World Wide Network.

Again, yes this does seem like contradiction at first, but the problem with this one is the information isn't accurate. Hojo did not upload his actual spirit into the Worldwide Network, but digital copies of his mind. Lucrecia refereed to her own fragments as a mind copy, as she states in DoC:

Jenova's cells... Vincent... Stored as data... Must leave... Thought... I loved... Record.. Memory copy... For him... It was wrong... Wait... Disperse... ...so sorry... Apply... ...but I... For... Fragment... Survive... Hope... who...? - Lucrecia, Dirge of Cerberus

These fragments are shown interacting with Vincent and Shelke despite the fact that the real Lucrecia is shown to be alive and behind a waterfall, encased in crystal. So these fragments are simply a copy of one's original mind, not their actual spirit. It is also revealed that Hojo began to extract his fragments before Avalanche actually fought him. The opening to DoC shows Vincent finding Hojo now laying motionless in front of the cannon's computer terminal, of which one of the screens says "start fragment program." In other words, the copy fought in DC was created before Hojo even battled AVALANCHE (there sure wasn't any lab equipment on top of the Sister Ray for scanning and recording one's mind), and distributed into the worldwide network immediately before he died. The copy is simply that, a copy. Not the original Hojo. Hojo's spirit is in the Lifestream and his copy is in the Worldwide Network

Second, while in the official English version of DC, Hojo's copy says, "Three years ago, while I was still running about looking for Sephiroth, I took it upon myself to distribute my data-- my mind, my knowledge, my inner being, across the worldwide network," the Japanese text from that scene says something different:

"Into the Worldwide Network, I scattered my fragments ...... my mind ....... data of my thoughts and knowledge." Here, the copy specifically refers to itself as fragments -- which we know, thanks to Lucrecia, to be data that is a copy of someone's mind. Hojo's copy further explains that fragments -- and, therefore, itself -- are "data of my thoughts and knowledge."

As explained in DC, these fragments were left behind as a failsafe in the event that something untoward should happen to Hojo after injecting himself with JENOVA's cells during the original game:

I attempted to perfect my body for Omega by injecting myself with Jenova's cells. However, that didn't go as I had planned.

I failed to consider the fact that the cells might try to take over my mind and eat away at my soul.

And so, as a safety measure, I came up with a brilliant plan to transmit my neurodata across the worldwide network. - Hojo, DoC

He then distributed the recorded fragments into the worldwide network with his final breath after being defeated by Cloud and co. atop the Sister Ray during the original game. This is depicted in DC's opening, where Yuffie detects life signs still at the top of the cannon during an evacuation of the area on the night Hojo was killed.

Granted, there is a moment where a ghost-like apparition of Hojo arises from Weiss's body after Vincent defeats him in battle prior to Omega's awakening, but by that point, Hojo's fragments had come to inhabit that living body. Given FFVII's cosmology -- in which the memories of the dead are recycled into new spirit energy to give life to new living things -- what could the thoughts and memories that inhabit and act through a living body be called but a spirit, even if they began as computerized data? The copy is simply that, a copy. Not the original Hojo. Hojo's spirit is in the Lifestream and his copy is in the Worldwide Network

Conclusion on contradiction claim #2: This contradiction claim contains inaccurate information and is therefore not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider compilation.

*Contradiction claim #3: Maiden says that all the Cetra have diffused into the Lifestream yet in Case of Lifestream White, Aerith is able to rally many of the Cetra to help her.

Yet again, it sounds like a legitimate contradiction, but again, it is not. While her mother, the last living Cetra before her, is said to have become one with the planet, the fact is also that the Cetra Aerith gathers in Case of Lifestream White are said to be fragments of consciousness. Here is a quote from CoLW:

Having lost the core of their emotions, the surface animosity disappeared. The woman had found a solution, however more and more spirits steeped in spite appeared, and it was too much for her to bear. She rushed through the Lifestream in search of other souls to help her. Ancients, on the verge of diffusing. These fragments of consciousness accepted her undertaking.

In other words, the Cetra she gathers in CoLW were already diluted and weren't really spirits anymore. They were fragments. It wasn't until CoLW that she figures out how to bring them back into a conscious form to help her. If anything, this seems to back up what Maiden has presented and tells us that even though the Cetra had been diffused in Maiden, Aerith found a way to have them help her in CoLW.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #3: This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider compilation and is actually CONSISTENT between both stories.

*Contradiction claim #4: In Maiden Aerith and Zack witness Tifa reconstruct Cloud in the Lifestream but in Tifa's Crisis Core Ultimania profile it says that Tifa becomes the "only witness" to his blurry memory during the original game, and that she also plays an important role in him regaining his true self .

This is a case of selective reading. The quote in Tifa's profile says that Tifa became a witness to his blurry memories and ALSO helped put Cloud back together. It's talking about two separate events. Tifa was a witness to Cloud's blurry memory because she was the only one of the group that knew his memories were off. LATER, she helped put Cloud back together. And if the quote IS talking about the Lifestream event, right before Tifa enters into Cloud's consciousness she talks to some spirits, eventually falling over and clutching her head as she hears them moan and speak to her. She was SURROUNDED by spirits, so it would make sense that there would be many spirit witnesses to what happened with Cloud, not JUST Aerith. So this quote in Tifa's profile is either saying Tifa was the only living witness OR it is contradicting the original game, therefore it's not Maiden doing the contradicting.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #4: Maiden itself is NOT contradicting the original game or the Compilation, but Tifa's profile might be, but if it is, it's the original game.

*Contradiction claim #5: In Maiden it says that Sephiroth's consciousness smiled and laughed after Cloud defeated him, but in the original game Sephiroth is only shown being shocked.

Reading Maiden closely, it actually says that Sephiroth smiled trying to resist his defeat, but ultimately succumbed.

The mad apostate angel smiled boldly. But the damage he had taken was far beyond what he could endure and his spiritual body started to fall apart as he laughed. Beams of light blasted out from inside his body as if they were cutting him apart. - Maiden of the Planet

The statement seems to say he smiled, laughed and then the beams shot out. When we, the players, see Sephiroth after the battle, the first thing we see is the beams. There may have been a brief moment before Cloud dealt the finishing blow that Sephiroth did smile or laugh, before he looked up at Cloud in shock. This is really more of a case of Benny putting what he thinks happened into the story, and because we never see it happen, it can't be disproved.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #5: This is not a contradiction, but merely Benny adding his own interpretation of the scene.

*Contradiction claim #6: Maiden says that Aerith met Zack when she was 17. She was 15 when she met him in Crisis Core

Again, if you read Maiden you'll find out it says no such thing. It says Aerith was attracted by Zack's smile when she was 17. It does not say that's when they first met. She was 17 when she last saw Zack, so she may just be remembering the last time she saw him or explaining where her focus was at the time. This answer might seem a bit nit picky, but so are many of the "contradictions."

Conclusion on contradiction claim #6: This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider Compilation.

*Contradiction claim #7: In Maiden, Zack says to Aerith that Omnislash was his technique, though he never used it in Crisis Core.

The first thing I want to point out is that in Birth by Sleep, Zack actually DOES use Omnislash. However since AU games don't hold much water here, this seems to be a case of Zack trying to charm Aerith one last time. He is very flirtatious and playful after all.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #7: This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider Compilation, but in fact, very in character for Zack.

*Contradiction claim #8: As shown by the ending of Crisis Core, Aerith should have known that Zack was dead. She was able to sense when Elmyra's husband died, yet in Maiden she is completely shocked to see him.

The simple fact is, we don't KNOW what Aerith felt at the end of Crisis Core. It may have been she felt Zack died, or it may have been she just felt something bad happened. The reason she was able to sense Elmyra's husband's death, was because he came close to try to see Elmyra. Aerith's words in this case are, "Someone dear to you has just died. His spirit was coming to see you, but he already returned to the planet."

Also the 20th Anniversary Ultimania Character files says that Aerith didn't know Zack was dead.

At the time this story begins, Zack is already dead, but Aerith does not know this truth. - 20th Anniversary Ultimania page 197

Conclusion on contradiction claim #8: This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider Compilation.

*Contradiction claim #9: In Maiden it's said that Zack's smile attracted Aerith to him. In Crisis Core, it's established that his eyes attracted her to him

If anything is a legitimate contradiction, it's this one. However this is an extremely MINOR contradiction, and not to mention the fact that more than one thing can attract one person to another, in which case, it wouldn't really be a contradiction at all.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #9: Of everything listed, this seems to be the one true contradiction, but it does have a case against it.

*Contradiction claim #10: Aerith acts too cold to Zack in Maiden, she should have been a lot nicer to him given their interactions in Crisis Core.

This is more or less based on one's opinions on the game itself. Many people believed Aerith to be over Zack, and this is just more proof she's moved on. This seems to be backed by FFVII Dismantled and Case of Lifestream White where she expresses her fondness for Cloud but never mentions' Zack. Some people will argue that she only spoke of Cloud because she saw Sephiroth and was forced to remember him, and had she thought of Zack first she'd have acted the same way. This maybe true, but it might not be. We can't make any conclusions like that because it didn't happen. And until it does, this is in fact, not really a contradiction at all.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #10: This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider Compilation.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I'm not going say whether a piece of fiction I haven't read (Maiden) contradicts games (Dirge and Crisis Core) I haven't played. At this point I'm going to leave the argument between you and people who think it is contradicted (seems to be Ryu, Mako, and Tennyo at the very least in this thread alone). I very deliberately said "if it is contradicted" in my most recent post for that reason, and didn't make any references to "cases where it is contradicted".

 

[Dashell]

I'm just wanted to post that is all

and it's not just you, I'm always hearing how it contradicts but so far I've only found one valid one and it's so insignificant it's not even funny. I mean if we're going by just "it contradicts so it's not canon"... none of the Compilation would count

 

[Makoeyes987]

*Contradiction claim #5: In Maiden it says that Sephiroth's consciousness smiled and laughed after Cloud defeated him, but in the original game Sephiroth is only shown being shocked.

Reading Maiden closely, it actually says that Sephiroth smiled trying to resist his defeat, but ultimately succumbed.

The mad apostate angel smiled boldly. But the damage he had taken was far beyond what he could endure and his spiritual body started to fall apart as he laughed. Beams of light blasted out from inside his body as if they were cutting him apart. - Maiden of the Planet

The statement seems to say he smiled, laughed and then the beams shot out. When we, the players, see Sephiroth after the battle, the first thing we see is the beams. There may have been a brief moment before Cloud dealt the finishing blow that Sephiroth did smile or laugh, before he looked up at Cloud in shock. This is really more of a case of Benny putting what he thinks happened into the story, and because we never see it happen, it can't be disproved.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #5: This is not a contradiction, but merely Benny adding his own interpretation of the scene.

I'll give you all the others, but you really don't justify or explain this contradiction at all. Benny's "interpretation" is at odds with the source material, point blank. The OG's storyline and depiction of events is supported and backed up by the 10th Anniversary Ultimania and the Reunion Files. So Benny's wrong, tbh.

*Contradiction claim #6: Maiden says that Aerith met Zack when she was 17. She was 15 when she met him in Crisis Core

Again, if you read Maiden you'll find out it says no such thing. It says Aerith was attracted by Zack's smile when she was 17. It does not say that's when they first met. She was 17 when she last saw Zack, so she may just be remembering the last time she saw him or explaining where her focus was at the time. This answer might seem a bit nit picky, but so are many of the "contradictions."

Conclusion on contradiction claim #6: This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider Compilation.

And this is wrong. The story clearly is referencing Aerith's first time meeting Zack and what first attracted her to him. Narratively speaking, it'd make no sense to just bring up a random time he smiled when she was 17 and say that was the first time she ever was attracted to that about him. You're reaching, now. There is literally no other explanation other than the fact that Benny had no idea the creators had another idea in mind in terms of how Zack and Aerith met and the circumstance of it.

Also, I believe Aerith was 18 when she last saw Zack. She had just turned 18 in 0002. So either way it makes no sense.

*Contradiction claim #9: In Maiden it's said that Zack's smile attracted Aerith to him. In Crisis Core, it's established that his eyes attracted her to him

If anything is a legitimate contradiction, it's this one. However this is an extremely MINOR contradiction, and not to mention the fact that more than one thing can attract one person to another, in which case, it wouldn't really be a contradiction at all.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #9: Of everything listed, this seems to be the one true contradiction, but it does have a case against it.

It's...a pretty major contradiction, seeing as how it's a major dynamic of the initial foundation of Zack and Aerith's relationship. It's just wrong. Unless you're of the mind of minimalizing the importance of said relationship.

*Contradiction claim #10: Aerith acts too cold to Zack in Maiden, she should have been a lot nicer to him given their interactions in Crisis Core.

This is more or less based on one's opinions on the game itself. Many people believed Aerith to be over Zack, and this is just more proof she's moved on. This seems to be backed by FFVII Dismantled and Case of Lifestream White where she expresses her fondness for Cloud but never mentions' Zack. Some people will argue that she only spoke of Cloud because she saw Sephiroth and was forced to remember him, and had she thought of Zack first she'd have acted the same way. This maybe true, but it might not be. We can't make any conclusions like that because it didn't happen. And until it does, this is in fact, not really a contradiction at all.

Conclusion on contradiction claim #10: This is not a contradiction with the original game or with the wider Compilation.[/spoiler]

You're right, it is rather subjective. But going by the fact there's no indication whatsoever, of this coldness in Crisis Core, in fact, it's the very opposite..

It's EXTREMELY incongruous with the Compilation. Never in any Compilation title does she act so cold towards him. There is certainly a reason for why people would find it odd, unless again, these are people looking to show that their relationship wasn't that important. Which in and of itself is contradicted by the Compilation.

You made some really good points though. Some even I had to think about and change my position on. But the major fundamental ones that are regarding the interaction and foundation of Zack and Aerith's relationship, are the ones that are still wrong. You can't really explain those away.

 

[Dashell]

I'll give you all the others, but you really don't justify or explain this contradiction at all. Benny's "interpretation" is at odds with the source material, point blank. The OG's storyline and depiction of events is supported and backed up by the 10th Anniversary Ultimania and the Reunion Files. So Benny's wrong, tbh.

Actually, you're right here

I rewrote this one... I can't seem to find my rewrite though
But right after Sephiroth gets slashed, you see him shake. I realize this is fudging, but I can see someone thinking that it's him laughing... and then going "oh shit..." I think the U10 just jumped straight to the part about the beams right?

And this is wrong. The story clearly is referencing Aerith's first time meeting Zack and what first attracted her to him. Narratively speaking, it'd make no sense to just bring up a random time he smiled when she was 17 and say that was the first time she ever was attracted to that about him. You're reaching, now. There is literally no other explanation other than the fact that Benny had no idea the creators had another idea in mind in terms of how Zack and Aerith met and the circumstance of it.

Which is why I add "This answer might seem a bit nit picky, but so are many of the "contradictions.""

It's...a pretty major contradiction, seeing as how it's a major dynamic of the initial foundation of Zack and Aerith's relationship. It's just wrong. Unless you're of the mind of minimalizing the importance of said relationship.

She can't be attracted to two things though?

You're right, it is rather subjective. But going by the fact there's no indication whatsoever, of this coldness in Crisis Core, in fact, it's the very opposite..

It's EXTREMELY incongruous with the Compilation. Never in any Compilation title does she act so cold towards him. There is certainly a reason for why people would find it odd, unless again, these are people looking to show that their relationship wasn't that important. Which in and of itself is contradicted by the Compilation.

I honestly never saw it as that cold O_o

I saw it as more playful, I mean it's not like she beat the shit out of him, just told him she wasn't interested in him anymore. You can be in an important relationship and then just not be interested in that person anymore. In fact you can hate that person. My brother was married for like 8 years, and he and his X don't get along now. Doesn't mean their relationship wasn't important. Just that it didn't work.

I see someone whose relationship didn't work out and this flows well with what she said in the beginning.

You made some really good points though. Some even I had to think about and change my position on. But the major fundamental ones that are regarding the interaction and foundation of Zack and Aerith's relationship, are the ones that are still wrong. You can't really explain those away.

I just did

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm sure she's attracted to more of Zack, but the story's clearly referencing her first meeting with him and what grabbed her first in terms of attraction. The story simply got that part of the dynamic wrong.

And yeah, it was playful but it was also kinda distant. Like she did intend to keep Zack at arms length because he'd never be Cloud and that was the only one for her. There's playful teasing and then friendly teasing with the undercurrent of "we're just friends." And the latter seemed the case in the story.

Of course it flows well with Maiden, because that's what it wants to portray. But that's not what any other Compilation title wants to state, see?

LOL you attempted to, and explained 85% of them away. But there's still 15% that's still...just not explainable except by saying its not right.

 

[Dashell]

Of course it flows well with Maiden, because that's what it wants to portray. But that's not what any other Compilation title wants to state, see?

You mean the one that took place while they were dating... well of COURSE that one shows them as a healthy couple

LOL you attempted to, and explained 85% of them away. But there's still 15% that's still...just not explainable except by saying its not right.

That's still less than the other Compilation entries IMO

 

[Makoeyes987]

You mean the one that took place while they were dating... well of COURSE that one shows them as a healthy couple


That's still less than the other Compilation entries IMO

Well if Zack was such a womanizer that made Aerith feel bad and showed he wasn't serious, they sure didn't see it.

The only Compilation entry that has a shitton of ridiculous continuity questions would be BC, and even then. That's the creators. They can honestly do whatever the heck they want, but this is a whole different animal.

CC and DC have their mistakes but they aren't nearly as bad as BC.

 

[Dashell]

Well if Zack was such a womanizer that made Aerith feel bad and showed he wasn't serious, they sure didn't see it.

...

what? I wasn't saying this XD
... did Maiden say Aerith felt bad? O_o

I think she loved him... but then got over him
and I mean Zack WAS a flirt (we're talking about this in the "what do you think about Cloud" thread) so... yeah I think that WAS portrayed, just not her reaction to it so much. Maybe it was something she thought about later... like after you break up with your X and you're like, "You know this is nice, I always hated the way they left the seat up..." or something.

i should go to bed

 

[Makoeyes987]

I wasn't referring to you specifically, but a lot of fans who try to disprove Zerith try to say that Zack was a horrible flirt and Aerith was jealous and tired of his womanizing. When CC shows nothing of the sort. So they then fall back on Maiden and the one line she says about maybe Zack finding someone else as support for their argument.

And yeah I suppose that could be the case but it still seems rather random. Her acting cold, that is.

 

[Dashell]

Well to repost what I said in the Cloud thread:

cheaters generally have intent to hurt or don't love the person they're with. I don't think Zack had any intention of hurting Aerith or didn't love her. I think he thought what he was doing was okay. I think if Aerith had approached him and told him to stop, he probably would have. I think it's also a case of him not realizing what he had when he had it.

Just my two cents

 

[Tifabelle]

I think he realized.

Flirting is ok. People do it all the time. Even people in relationships. Even with people they have no real interest in.