LTD Who did Aerith love?

[Alessa Gillespie]

How come no one gets upset over the fact that people try to shoehorn Zack into a loving relationship post-death or w/e?

because he's already goo and no one cares.

And why is being in a relationship, or being in love, a sign of weakness for a female character but not a male character? In fact, why is it a sign of weakness at all? Do women and men not fall in love in real life? Can't a woman be kickass and still be in love?

no. the problem is when a company or director or author or what the fuck ever can do nothing BUT a woman in fucking love and her life revolving around the dude. THAT is bullshit.

And have we so quickly forgotten about Snow who's whole freaking life revolves around Serah. SERAH SERAH, SERAH'S TEAR, I LOVE SERAH, BLAH BLAH. OMG A MALE CHARACTER IN LOVE. Of course this is probably a bad example because Snow is a bit of a pain in the ass regardless.

single male character obsessed with girlfriend does not outweigh the fact many male characters do not totally revolve around a female character and their love for her.

How about Locke who's searching for a treasure to save Rachel? How about Squall's saving Rinoa and declaring himself her knight? Tidus also seemed pretty smitten with his girl. Vincent practically falls over himself about Lucrecia.

No one complains how Cloud is always trying to be shoehorned into a relationship with either Aerith or Tifa. Why does he have to be in love with one of them? WHY CAN'T HE JUST BE A STRONG INDEPENDENT CHARACTER WITHOUT HAVING TO BE WITH A WOMAN? Oh wait...we can see past the fact that he may be in love with one of them, and still see his value as a man and a character.

I don't mind seeing female characters in love *coughYunacough* as long as it's done right.

POINT=MISSED. MALES HAVE AN EASY FUCKING TIME BEING OR NOT BEING LOVE INTERESTS OR HAVING ASPECTS OUTSIDE OF BEING IN LOVE WITH THEM. FEMALES DON'T BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WOMEN. LOLHURRDURR

I don't have a problem imagining Aerith and Zack in some sort of afterlife together, or just the idea that they are "reunited in death". Doesn't bother me. In fact, I kind of like it...for both of them, not just Aerith. I also liked Crisis Core and Advent Children. /more unpopular opinion.

they are goo. dealwithit.jpg

 

[Lym]

What does them being lifestream goo have to do with just liking the fact that they got to meet again and thinking it was sweet? I just thought it was a nice way to wrap up their little story. *shrugs*

...I'm not gonna comment on the other stuff. I'm in the middle.

 

[Zee]

SE trying to shove this shit down my throat will never change the fact that Zack is nothing more than a plot device in Cloud's story. I'll be completely honest when I say I could care less how or where he ends up.

But that doesn't mean she's any less strong and independent. I just don't see how it changes the core of Aerith's personality. Or why it's so terrible that a man might have had a positive influence on her.

It's not terrible that a man might have had a positive influence on her. What's irritating is that SE can find no way to show us he had a positive influence on her with taking the traits that were iconic to her as a character and attributing them to him. So yes, it does take something away from Aeris' quirks and personality.

And have we so quickly forgotten about Snow who's whole freaking life revolves around Serah.

Spoiler: nope

I don't mind seeing female characters in love *coughYunacough* as long as it's done right.

I miss Princess Garnet.

I don't have a problem imagining Aerith and Zack in some sort of afterlife together, or just the idea that they are "reunited in death". Doesn't bother me.

I don't mind it in a poetic sense. I do mind it in a ~2gether 4ever~ sense, especially when the canon has made it blatantly clear she's over him. Except the idea of her getting character development and moving on from her past is threatening, for some reason. /kanye shrug

 

[ForceStealer]

I wouldn't have a problem with Aerith and Zack together in the afterlife if the FF7 universe had an afterlife. Which it doesn't.

How about Squall's saving Rinoa and declaring himself her knight?

But Squall's a pussy.

 

[Eerie]

Ergo, I do think that Zack and Aerith were reunited in the Lifestream. 4ever? Nope. It's goo, the Lifestream. But it allowed both characters to see each other again. It is a way to conclude their story.

Also, I don't think Aerith was ever truly over Zack. And yes, I do think she truly loved Cloud too. OHNOES SHE LOVED BOTH MEN AT THE SAME TIME. Snort. That's my unpopular opinion. Also unpopular opinion that after they die, their feelings are kinda mashed together and kinda, well, disappear for less strong feelings (which is how they become goo, and why Sephiroth survived, because his hatred is that strong).

So, it's more bittersweet anyway.

Also, I think SE became enamored with Zerith when they were writing Crisis Core. Which is why they became that sappy with them.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I don't think people are saying Zack & Aeris are playing house. But their reunion is an obvious nod to their previous relationship. Yeah, we know their spirits eventually merge and dissolve within the Lifestream and they cease to exist as Zack and Aeris, but before that happens, these two lovers are reunited and ~go into the light~ together. For as long as they are themselves, they are together.

That's all.
I don't see what's so unacceptable about it. It's cheesey as fuck, yeah, but that's a different problem.

Besides, it wasn't long ago that some were creaming their panties at the idea of Cloud "meeting her there".

 

[Vendel]

Besides, it wasn't long ago that some were creaming their panties at the idea of Cloud "meeting her there".

But you see that was C/A. When it involves Zack it suddenly becomes this horrible thing.

 

[looneymoon]

Why are Tifa's boobs not blurred in that pic. Are they trying to insinuate that Tifa's tits are just as majestic as femmeCloud?

New debate people. What turns you on more - Tifa's boobs or female!Cloud.

 

[Zee]

Tifa's boobs on female!Cloud.

 

[looneymoon]

Tifa's boobs on female!Cloud.

...

What do you mean by "on"? OHOHOHOHO.

 

[ForceStealer]

...

 

[Lord Noctis]

...

Never have I found myself agreeing more with a comment on this site.

 

[minimosey]

I'm sure I'll get in trouble for this, but w/e. Get ready for an unpopular opinion:

Why is it upsetting that Aerith and Zack "end up together in the post life"? It's not just Aerith...it's Aerith and Zack. Both of them. Both in a relationship. How come no one gets upset over the fact that people try to shoehorn Zack into a loving relationship post-death or w/e?

How is it shoehorning when he was actually trying to get back to Aerith?

That is a big part of the difference: he died trying to get back to Aerith. Even OGC, there has to be some reason he was trying to get back to Midgar, the downright stupidest place to be when Shinra is after you.

Aerith did not die trying to get back to Zack. Aerith lived trying to get over Zack, seems to have done so near the end, then died. So being shoved back in a relationship with him just undoes that character development. Biiiig difference.

And as others already noted, way more reoccurring for female characters to revolve around males than vice-versa.

That said, I don't take the quote about him being with her in the Lifestream as OTP kind of material. He's her first love. That would be true no matter how her feelings changed. And him being by her side is more indicative of his loyalty which is part of his character. So it's just... they're at peace with each other, and Zack's sticking with Aerith in the struggle to heal the despair and hate of dead Geostigma victims, which is constantly increasing.

Which, IDK, I think that's actually a pretty awesome way for any two characters to spend two years dead together.

 

[Tifabelle]

How is it shoehorning when he was actually trying to get back to Aerith?

That is a big part of the difference: he died trying to get back to Aerith. Even OGC, there has to be some reason he was trying to get back to Midgar, the downright stupidest place to be when Shinra is after you.

I think he was planning to go to Midgar anyway (though I'm not entirely certain so blah). In any event when he remembers that Aerith lives with her mother, he says "Guess that's out", so I'm not sure that his whole goal was returning to Aerith. I think he was just looking to escape, and of course hoping to contact her in the process. I'm not doubting his love for her or anything, I think you're just giving him too much credit on this one, lol.

Aerith did not die trying to get back to Zack. Aerith lived trying to get over Zack, seems to have done so near the end, then died. So being shoved back in a relationship with him just undoes that character development. Biiiig difference.

She wrote him 87 letters (or however many) over the course of five years. She didn't know where he was to go looking for him.

And even assuming she is completely over him by the end of the OG, how is she shoehorned into a relationship with him after this? Advent Children? Her working with him post-death, and some people's notions of the two of them "walking away together into an afterlife" or w/e is hardly shoehorning.

If you're referring to CC, that all happened before she "got over him" and makes your statement of "her character development being undone" moot.

And as others already noted, way more reoccurring for female characters to revolve around males than vice-versa.

I never denied this. I agree with it. A lot of games have shitty female characters. Despite that, Aerith's character was not ruined for me.

And him being by her side is more indicative of his loyalty which is part of his character.

I don't doubt his loyalty, but Aerith seemed to.

Which, IDK, I think that's actually a pretty awesome way for any two characters to spend two years dead together.

So having them together for two years as friends is cool, but having them spend those two years doing the exact same thing just being in love is going too far?

I'm not about to get into my views on female video game characters, or video game companies, or feminism. I'm talking solely about Aerith, and although I think certain things they did in CC are stupid (mostly the "I'm afraid of the sky" comment), that's irrelevent. I could find things about any character in any game that I don't like about them. To me, she's still Aerith and her character hasn't been ruined.

 

[minimosey]

I don't see how I'm giving him too much credit when you think "of course" he was trying to contact her. And Midgar really is the stupidest place to go if you are trying to escape Shinra, so I'm still standing by that--maybe he thought he could lie low and evade notice, but he did not pick Midgar for the purpose of escape.

And even assuming she is completely over him by the end of the OG, how is she shoehorned into a relationship with him after this? Advent Children?

Nah, I was talking about if you take the quote as meaning they have to be in a relationship.

She wrote him 87 letters (or however many) over the course of five years. She didn't know where he was to go looking for him.

And that is not OGC. That's beforehand. She stopped writing him after four years, a year before the game starts, and she gets over his death during the game as she recognizes Cloud and Zack as separate.

I never denied this. I agree with it.

Then why be surprised that people take more exception to yet another female character getting changed to include this than the occasional male character popping up?

So having them together for two years as friends is cool, but having them spend those two years doing the exact same thing just being in love is going too far?

When it's ignoring that Aerith wasn't in love with him when she died, yep.

 

[ForceStealer]

If there were an afterlife in FF7's world. I have no doubt that Zack would immediately resume putting the moves on her upon meeting her.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

If there were an afterlife in FF7's world. I have no doubt that Zack would immediately resume putting the moves on her upon meeting her.

Maiden

 

[AerithLives]

In "on the way to a smile". Doesnt it pretty much say that she has strong feelings for Cloud and rejects Zack? Infact in a way it seemed like Aeris and Zack had little contact with eachother in death by the way Zack says "you know where i am if you need me" and drifts away.

 

[Kobato]

Cloud.

Cloud is the woman’s friend, beloved/lover/sweetheart (koibito)—-he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect. - Case of Lifestream: White

Even though Aerith perceived that Cloud had lost sight of his true self, she still has great affection for him.” - F F V I I . 1 0 t h . A n n i v e r s a r y . U l t i m a n i a .

“Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and is attracted to him.” (p. 31) - F F V I I . 1 0 t h . A n n i v e r s a r y . U l t i m a n i a .

AERITH: “I was a little surprised that this village was Zack’s birthplace! Although called my first love, that doesn’t mean that we became particularly intimate. At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack. But Cloud is clueless.” - DISMANTLED

 

[Celes Chere]

There are so many contradictions now that I believe that it could either way, and neither view is wrong. I believe Aerith loves Zack. And just to point out the contradictions, there is a quote for every one that you posted that says the opposite. xD Observe:

Cloud is the woman’s friend, beloved/lover/sweetheart (koibito)—-he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect. - Case of Lifestream: White

"The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other."

"The more Aerith knows about Zack, the more she’s attracted by him. Her manner toward Zack is also sweet."

"Repeating Zack’s look with Cloud’s.

Being an Ancient, Aerith did her utmost to save the Planet, even sacrificed life—in FF7, the impression of Aerith being such a tragic heroine is strong. Nevertheless, the most significant link to FF7 is the conversations about Cloud. The reason why she’s a flower girl when she first meets Cloud, the beginning of love with her first love, Zack, and the reason she saw Zack in Cloud—all those things we don’t know in FF7 are made clear in CC.

Text: Aerith asks Cloud to be her bodyguard. Does her “one date” as the payment repeat what Zack used to say to her?"

"*Text near the img of Zack and Aerith in CC:
Aerith never talks about her bitterness but lives brightly. It is growing by degrees into inseparable relationship."

"Nojima: The setting that “falling from the roof of the Church” repeats Aerith’s encounter with Cloud was decided in the beginning. Though we’re talking about love, they are still young back then and there’s no time to describe “how they become fond of each other” in the game. So I made it like “falling into a sudden crush.”"

( The other two quotes of yours are true, arguably not romantic )

AERITH: “I was a little surprised that this village was Zack’s birthplace! Although called my first love, that doesn’t mean that we became particularly intimate. At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack. But Cloud is clueless.” - DISMANTLED

"The dull life in the Slum, the love with a SOLDIER who fell from the sky."

"She met Zack in the Sector 5 church, and became very
intimate with him."

"Aerith, the girl whom he met at the slum's church. The existence of the girl, who had earnestly come to love Zack with sincerity, eventually became irreplaceable to him."

 

[Marle]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; isn't it entirely possible the woman loved both men? I don't think Aerith loved one more than the other. She almost seems indecisive with her feelings (or maybe it's just SE).

She loved Zack and then came to love Cloud. She didn't just forget about Zack when she met Cloud. CC made it pretty obvious it wasn't just a silly fling. :T I'd probably have believed it a whole lot more if CC wasn't created and we were just basing what we knew of Zack from FF7. But, CC does exist and it sort of contradicts a lot of things, like Celes said.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; isn't it entirely possible the woman loved both men? I don't think Aerith loved one more than the other. She almost seems indecisive with her feelings (or maybe it's just SE).

She loved Zack and then came to love Cloud. She didn't just forget about Zack when she met Cloud. CC made it pretty obvious it wasn't just a silly fling. :T I'd probably have believed it a whole lot more if CC wasn't created and we were just basing what we knew of Zack from FF7. But, CC does exist and it sort of contradicts a lot of things, like Celes said.

but colw was written after crisis core and it states that she feels cloud is her koibito.

 

[Marle]

Yeah, that confuses me, too. He's her koibito, but when describing Zack and Aerith, they're called star-crossed lovers, irreplaceable existences and such. I just see way too much contradiction. I think it's fair to say she loved both men, perhaps one more than the other at certain points in her life, but in the end, she was in love with both.

This is a debate that can go in circles forever. :T

 

[Celes Chere]

but colw was written after crisis core and it states that she feels cloud is her koibito.

This being true, the way they are described as "destiny" "inseparable" and "irreplaceable" means they have an unbreakable bond... so I feel like that quote shouldn't negate ones that state Zack and Aerith are meant to be together for literally, an eternity. xD That's just me though, true colw is written afterwards so right now it's word is truth. Just wait til the next thing comes out and says something yet again, against it's own word. xD

 

[Ryushikaze]

Shit's complicated, She loves both.

/thread.