LTD Who did Aerith love?

[Vendel]

And, again, we know Aerith pursued Cloud romantically. Yes, it was initially because he reminded her of Zack,

Initially? That implies that she saw him and he kinda reminder her of Zack so she pursued him. But wasn't really hung up on it. But we know that is not the case. It took till almost the time she left the party for her to admit Cloud wasn't Zack. And if you didn't get her date she never made that statement.

but she moves past that and is still pursuing him, only with the intention of getting to know the real him.

Yes and then she died. So no one knows if she would have continued to want a romantic relationship after getting to know the real Cloud(I have my doubts). Which she never did.

After her death she clearly drops any relationship notions(suck on that pinkers). So what are we left with? In the end Aerith is reunited with Zack. The man she was waiting for even after he died. Her one true love.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Initially? That implies that she saw him and he kinda reminder her of Zack so she pursued him. But wasn't really hung up on it. But we know that is not the case. It took till almost the time she left the party for her to admit Cloud wasn't Zack.

And yet she still wanted to pursue CLOUD. She says as much. She WANTS to fuck MEET the real him. I think people are missing the most basic and fundamental fact here: Aerith was falling in love with Cloud. The reasons for it are irrelevant to the emotion itself. Yes, she may have loved him because he was a shadow of Zack, or maybe because of his huge sword--whatever. The reasoning--flawed and wacked and psychologically debatable though they may be--do NOT negate the emotion.

Yes, you can argue that she never loved the 'real' Cloud all you want, but the fact remains--as far as Aerith is concerned--she DID love Cloud. For WHATEVER reason.

Yes and then she died. So no one knows if she would have continued to want a romantic relationship after getting to know the real Cloud(I have my doubts). Which she never did.

Then no one knows whether or not Cloud sleeps in a bed with Tifa. You can't chose to ignore what's implied and inferred throughout compilation simply because you don't like it. It's heavily, HEAVILY implied that Aerith had every intention of pursuing Cloud--even after she realized her folly. Whether or not that relationship had a chance in hell is highly doubtful--especially considering that Cloud is so emotionally invested in Tifa that she's at the core of his being. But the fact remains, Aerith wanted blondie.

After her death she clearly drops any relationship notions(suck on that pinkers). So what are we left with? In the end Aerith is reunited with Zack. The man she was waiting for even after he died. Her one true love.

She drops relationship notions but is WITH Zack?

And don't get me wrong, I very much believe that Zack is Aerith's preferential love interest and the man she wants to be with. But while alive--with Zackie boy dead and gone--she was willing to attempt to move on with Cloud. Even if we--the audience-- KNOW she wasn't really moving on--only superimposing...the character believes she was falling in love.

Again, why is this a big deal? And HOW is it LTD relevant?

Aerith wanted Cloud--We knooooooooow this. Cloud only wants Tifa--ever. We knoooooooow this. When Aerith dies and she spies Zack's rust-free Buster Sword.... well, you know....

 

[looneymoon]

And yet she still wanted to pursue CLOUD. She says as much. She WANTS to fuck MEET the real him.

It's the tragedy of a blossoming romance!

(Yes, I just figured out how to embed youtube vids lol )

 

[Dashell]

Hey I posted that already in the other LTD thread, no fair

 

[looneymoon]

Sorry I am far too mature and intellectual to follow such juvenile threads. Pahohoho.

...

Peace offering:

 

[Vendel]

Yes, you can argue that she never loved the 'real' Cloud all you want, but the fact remains--as far as Aerith is concerned--she DID love Cloud. For WHATEVER reason.

No one is arguing that Aerith doesn't hold great affection for Cloud. But as early as her running off by herself and obviously after her death it is Clear that jumping on his dick is not what is on her mind.

Combine that with her admitting that he is in fact not Zack make it rather clear to me that before she died Aerith had begun to come to grips with her feelings.

You can't chose to ignore what's implied and inferred throughout compilation simply because you don't like it. It's heavily, HEAVILY implied that Aerith had every intention of pursuing Cloud--even after she realized her folly.

See above.

She drops relationship notions but is WITH Zack?

Two things.
1. I was talking about Cloud specifically (and you should know that).
and
2. I don't think her and Zack are literally spirit fucking. They found each other again after all that time. Fulfilling Zack's promise and Aerith's wish. Now they can go away(diffuse)together.

Again, why is this a big deal? And HOW is it LTD relevant?

I never said it was a big deal. It is interesting nonetheless. Although I do think a closer examination of Aerith's feelings might lend itself to helping the discussion along. And IMO if she had lived she would not have continued to peruse Cloud after the LS event.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

No one is arguing that Aerith doesn't hold great affection for Cloud. But as early as her running off by herself and obviously after her death it is Clear that jumping on his dick is not what is on her mind.

Combine that with her admitting that he is in fact not Zack make it rather clear to me that before she died Aerith had begun to come to grips with her feelings.

Aerith's feelings for Cloud are romantic interest. Never do we see them revert to anything resembling platonic until AC/ACC, so I would argue that before her death--even after she realizes her 'initial' attraction--her coming to "grip" simply means that she understands why she was attracted to Cloud. It does NOT stop her interest in him.

And IMO if she had lived she would not have continued to peruse Cloud after the LS event.

I usually avoid the 'what if' scenarios in general, but what makes you think she would not have continued to pursue Cloud? It was clear she was aware of Tifa's feelings for Cloud, and also of his in regards to Tifa from the beginning and that didn't stop her from flirting and trying....

The fact is, no matter how much Aerith may have wanted him, Cloud only wanted Tifa--before and especially AFTER the LS event.

And yes, as complex and interesting as it is to dissect Aerith's mindset and feelings, it doesn't actually have a whit to do with the LTD... Unless people are trying to make a love triangle between Aerith-Cloud-Zack...which is weird, because two of the parties are dead... and Cloud very clearly only ever loved Zack Tifa...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Aerith's feelings for Cloud are romantic interest. Never do we see them revert to anything resembling platonic until AC/ACC, so I would argue that before her death--even after she realizes her 'initial' attraction--her coming to "grip" simply means that she understands why she was attracted to Cloud. It does NOT stop her interest in him.

Absolutely agreed. Aerith had come to understand her initial attraction, but the interest and pursuit didn't stop with that -- as demonstrated during the date itself, and at the Temple of the Ancients.

But as early as her running off by herself and obviously after her death it is Clear that jumping on his dick is not what is on her mind.

That's because saving the planet and preventing its people from being crushed like Wookies -- exactly like Wookies, in fact -- is what was on her mind when she ran off. She did plan to come back, though, as she herself said, and as Tifa speculated when the topic was discussed (Cloud had thought she intended to die).

And yes, as complex and interesting as it is to dissect Aerith's mindset and feelings, it doesn't actually have a whit to do with the LTD... Unless people are trying to make a love triangle between Aerith-Cloud-Zack...which is weird, because two of the parties are dead... and Cloud very clearly only ever loved Zack Tifa...

The makings of the dullest threesome ever.

 

[minimosey]

It took till almost the time she left the party for her to admit Cloud wasn't Zack. And if you didn't get her date she never made that statement.

The date is when she states that Cloud isn't Zack, but I think there's an issue in assuming that was when she realized it:

1. Cloud is the player character of FFVII (for the most part, and the entire time Aerith is alive). Any information--plot-related, character-related, whatever--the player gets is going to be filtered through Cloud.

2. Aerith's quandary of getting over Zack is directly tied to Cloud's identity crisis.

3. Like Tifa, Aerith is unwilling to confront Cloud's mental issues head-on by that point in the game; she doesn't know what's caused them, so she doesn't know how to help him past trying to calm him down when an episode occurs and sweeping the incident under the rug (when Cloud flips out in the temple and then asks if something's wrong, she says nothing is wrong and not to worry).

The basic problem: it's hard for the game to tell the player "Aerith is pursuing Cloud for Cloud himself, not Zack" unless Aerith is willing to tell Cloud "I want to meet the real you [because you're not acting like yourself]." Even in the Gondola she's hesitant about stating it; when Cloud is confused, she doesn't clarify that he's putting up an act, but just repeats what she already said. We see her getting a little frustrated--she doesn't know how to say it without possibly hurting Cloud. Even if she decided fairly early on in the game that she didn't want to be dating a shadow of Zack, how can she tell Cloud that without opening an ugly can of worms?

What she tells Cloud is that she IS searching for him, not that she just started or that she's going to start from that point on. The beginning point of that search is left unclear. (A lot of things about Aerith's feelings are murky in the original game, pfft.)

So while I can see why someone would believe "she wasn't interested in Cloud for Cloud until the date scene", I think that's possible but not necessarily gospel truth--she could have been interested in Cloud for Cloud earlier, but not feel able to touch on his identity crisis until the date scene, which keeps her from going too in-depth on her feelings beforehand.

 

[Eerie]

I definitely think that Aerith loveS both. That even now, her feelings are shaded with a romantic connotation, however! I also think that Lifestream tends to blend individuals and feelings, so her feelings aren't what they used to be.

To say "she loves Zack or Cloud the most" is difficult to tell; both men will remain important to her, after all. But I do think that she belongs with Zack and that, probably, her love for him is deeper. Why? Because she knows the real Zack; she's known him for a longer time, she went out with him and she still loved him even after so much time passed (4 years is a rather long time, after all).

Her love for Cloud is more shallow and in the end, she died before meeting the real him; I always thought that it was a deep obstacle - I remember while playing FF7, I couldn't help but think "how shallow" from Aerith's character. No matter when she started to want to see the real him and whatnot, the hard cold truth is that it doesn't matter because she never gets to in the end.

Would Aerith still pursue Cloud, had she stayed alive? I think the LS scene would have killed any possibility anyway. Because she wasn't able to help him - Tifa was the only one who could - she truly lost to Tifa at that time. The LS scene is where the reply to the LTD lies [Cloud had always wanted Tifa, still did afterwards], and I don't think of Aerith as such a bitch that she'd continue to pursue Cloud if she saw him with Tifa [because for Cloud, there's no doubt that it's Tifa, with or without Aerith].

I'm also on the - less numerous, apparently - side who thinks that characters don't OMG all need to be paired up to be happy. Yes, despite her being dead and all, I think that Aerith, after AC, is pretty happy - happy to see Cloud and her friends saved and finally happy, not to mention that she gave the cure to save all the people infected too. _o/ Her destiny transcends love - even though, I still don't like her

 

[trash panda]

Thank youuuuuuuuu Syneiam. I completely agree with you that a character doesn't have to be paired off in order to be happy. I've never been content with either of the pairings in FFVII's love triangle.

The cold hard truth is that Aerith never spent any time with the real Cloud, after he discovered for himself who he really was. At the end of the day, Aerith returns to Zack, and all that's left for Cloud is his old flame for Tifa (which seems to have died out).

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Thank youuuuuuuuu Syneiam. I completely agree with you that a character doesn't have to be paired off in order to be happy. I've never been content with either of the pairings in FFVII's love triangle.

The cold hard truth is that Aerith never spent any time with the real Cloud, after he discovered for himself who he really was. At the end of the day, Aerith returns to Zack, and all that's left for Cloud is his old flame for Tifa (which seems to have died out).

I'm gonna have to go with a: "WTF?!" on the bolded portion. I'll leave it at that because this is the "who does Aerith want to fuck love more thread...but seriously, uhm, WTF...

 

[Celes Chere]

Aerith loves Zack. And here's why I think that way:

Spoiler

The dull life in the Slum, the love with a SOLDIER who fell from the sky.

In CC, Aerith is just a 15-year-old girl. Under the surveillance from Shinra, who wanted to worm out the location of the Promise Land from the Ancients. Growing flowers seems trivial but it brought her joy while she lived at the Sector 5 Slums. At that chosen day, she accidentally met Zack, SOLDIER 1st Class, and they were attracted to each other…

Quote: text near img of Aerith's pointing to the Church's roof
Just like Cloud in FF7, Zack fell to Aerith’s Church. Meeting him brings along her first love.
Quote: text near img of Aerith's talking, saying "Everyman would notice the flowers, I mean, normally."
Inspired by the flowers that she forbids trampling, they planed to sell flowers at the market. In CC, Aeirth used to say that flowers are indispensable.
Quote: text near img of Aerith holding Zack
Aerith gently embraced Zack, who came back sad. The atmosphere makes them feel like a couple....



Quote:
[ ν ] - εуλ 0000

(Age 15)

·CC - Midgar

She met Zack in the Sector 5 church, and became very
intimate with him.


The "girlfriend" reported at the parent's house.

6-7 years prior to FFVII, Zack's "I've managed to get a girlfriend" letter was left out in the parents' home. If it was 6-7 years ago, it was about the time where he met Aerith in CC... Does that mean the girlfriend was Aerith?


Quote:
To Dad and Mom,
How are you?
I'm sorry for suddenly rushing out of the village. The truth is that I really wanted to become a SOLDIER. I thought that saying that would worry you . . . I'm now fulfilling my dreams and working hard as a SOLDIER.

P.S. I've managed to get a girlfriend.

-Zack


Quote:
Zack seems to have a number of girlfriends, but especially informing his home means there's no doubt that the partner is a special one.


Quote:
As a result of being able to surmise everything from each small deed, Aerith, who was in love with Zack, might perhaps have been jealous many times seeing all that...

The girl pretty as flowers blooms in Zack’s mind.

Quote:
The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other.

Quote:
The chosen day, Zack suddenly fell from the roof of the Church in the Slum. His bright confidence immediately catches her mind, and they start a relationship as a couple.

Quote:
Aerith honestly expresses her good feeling to Zack straight out, and that also makes his heart skip a beat.

Quote:
Selling flowers will richen both wallet and streets?

Aerith’s interest is taking care of flowers, but flowers rarely bloom in Slum because the sky is covered by the Plate. Aerith’s dream is to plant a lot of flowers around the Slum—for such a dream, Zack suggests that she should sell those flowers she plants, and not just around the Slum, but make the whole Midgar full of flowers. His plan that “If Midgar is full of flowers, then your wallet will be full too!” opens up a gate to a new world to Aerith.

Quote:
The more Aerith knows about Zack, the more she’s attracted by him. Her manner toward Zack is also sweet.

Quote:
Repeating Zack’s look with Cloud’s.

Being an Ancient, Aerith did her utmost to save the Planet, even sacrificed life—in FF7, the impression of Aerith being such a tragic heroine is strong. Nevertheless, the most significant link to FF7 is the conversations about Cloud. The reason why she’s a flower girl when she first meets Cloud, the beginning of love with her first love, Zack, and the reason she saw Zack in Cloud—all those things we don’t know in FF7 are made clear in CC.

Text: Aerith asks Cloud to be her bodyguard. Does her “one date” as the payment repeat what Zack used to say to her?

Quote:
*Text near the img of Zack and Aerith in CC:
Aerith never talks about her bitterness but lives brightly. It is growing by degrees into inseparable relationship.

Nojima: The setting that “falling from the roof of the Church” repeats Aerith’s encounter with Cloud was decided in the beginning. Though we’re talking about love, they are still young back then and there’s no time to describe “how they become fond of each other” in the game. So I made it like “falling into a sudden crush.”

Nojima: However, Zack did not appear only for the reason as a key to the puzzle. The setting of “Aerith overlaps Cloud with her first love” and Zack as the key character are settled before I joined the team of development.

All of the DMW memories of Aerith:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19vXro4MTgs


"Zack, my wagon broke... so I will now continue to sell flowers in a basket."

*walks away*

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I don't think anyone is daring to argue against Aerith loving Zack. In fact, I'm stone cold set on her loving him for eternity and well above the scope of which she held affection for Cloud. My contention is with the thought process that she never held romantic interest in Cloud due to the reasons for the attraction to begin with--which, if I may say, is complete fucking bullcocky.

But yes, ZACK, FTW.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Thank youuuuuuuuu Syneiam. I completely agree with you that a character doesn't have to be paired off in order to be happy. I've never been content with either of the pairings in FFVII's love triangle.

The cold hard truth is that Aerith never spent any time with the real Cloud, after he discovered for himself who he really was. At the end of the day, Aerith returns to Zack, and all that's left for Cloud is his old flame for Tifa (which seems to have died out).

Which is why it's him making the moves, reaffirming her importance to him, calling out to her with his heart and opening it up only to her.
But this belongs in the LTD proper.
The flame may be less intense through age, but it's no less a fire.

 

[Dashell]

"Zack, my wagon broke... so I will now continue to sell flowers in a basket."

... okay I just got back from the other thread and I read "Zack my vagina broke"... time to get offline.

 

[Celes Chere]

Sometimes I worry about you.

 

[Madame Mayor]

*comes back from the dead to bring you the following*

You're all so wrong... why can't you see the truth...

Spoiler

Tseng

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

*comes back from the dead to bring you the following*

You're all so wrong... why can't you see the truth...

Spoiler

Tseng

Of course!

Spoiler

She cried for him when she thought he was dying! And we all know what that means!

 

[Tennyo]

*comes back from the dead to bring you the following*

You're all so wrong... why can't you see the truth...

Spoiler

Tseng

I would actually be totally willing to back this pairing if there were more proof.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Random note that is semi-related - in the anime Inuyasha, the title character is at first attracted to Kagome because she reminds him of his dead lover Kikyo and is later revealed to be her reincarnation. Over the course of the series however they become closer, and he genuinely falls for her based on her own merits once he accepts she and Kikyo are different people. KagomexInuyasha is the established canon pairing in the series, but KikyoxInuyasha is also supported due to the fact at one time they *were* together, that is also canon. They're simply over each other, Kikyo later comes back to life but neither she nor Inuyasha have any desire to rekindle their relationship.

So there's my story, take from it anything you like.

As for the "what-if", would Aerith have pursued Cloud if she had lived? I think so, by the Gold Saucer scene we know she comes to accept Cloud isn't Zack but still shows interest in him. Now, how Cloud and Tifa would have reacted to Aerith's advances if she lived, who knows? I suspect though, had Aerith lived they would have gone with the *real* original version of the Highwind scene - Cloud leaves the Chocobo stable, followed by Tifa, and then shortly after by Aerith.

 

[Tennyo]

Menage et trois?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Menage et trois?

No thank you, but I'm flattered nonetheless.

 

[Vendel]

I usually avoid the 'what if' scenarios in general, but what makes you think she would not have continued to pursue Cloud? It was clear she was aware of Tifa's feelings for Cloud, and also of his in regards to Tifa from the beginning and that didn't stop her from flirting and trying....

So now Aerith knows how Cloud feels about Tifa even though he himself does not and pursues him anyways? Wow FHS I never knew you thought Aerith was such a bitch.

As for the overall point. With the realization that she was chasing a shadow. And the knowledge of just how messed up Cloud was. And the sudden shift in C/T's interactions make me think Aerith would get the hint and ease up on the poor fellow. Because at that point she truly would truly be desperate and delusional.

And yes, as complex and interesting as it is to dissect Aerith's mindset and feelings, it doesn't actually have a whit to do with the LTD...

Actually Even if Cloud was forever wangsting away after Aerith it would make no bit of difference. Because as early as her running off by herself there is zero romantic interest on her part towards Cloud. If we go by CoLW she didn't even think of Cloud until meeting Sephy. And she leaves at the end of AC.

So yes Aeriths mindset can be considered important.

Random note that is semi-related - in the anime Inuyasha, the title character is at first attracted to Kagome because she reminds him of his dead lover Kikyo and is later revealed to be her reincarnation. Over the course of the series however they become closer, and he genuinely falls for her based on her own merits once he accepts she and Kikyo are different people. KagomexInuyasha is the established canon pairing in the series, but KikyoxInuyasha is also supported due to the fact at one time they *were* together, that is also canon. They're simply over each other, Kikyo later comes back to life but neither she nor Inuyasha have any desire to rekindle their relationship.

Now of only Kagome had mental problems and eventually ended up with someone else this would really be a good parallel. Oh yeah and Inuyasha dies. And this all happens over a coupel of weeks.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Now of only Kagome had mental problems and eventually ended up with someone else this would really be a good parallel

Do wild mood swings count? And actually, there *is* someone else - a wolf demon named Kouga who Inuyasha hates, and they constantly compete. He declares Kagome "his woman" within hours of kidnapping her.