Misc Star Wars Tangents

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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
I thought the whole deal was to recapture the original version and not have to deal with the impurity of modern updates?

In higher visual quality, most likely all the SFX is seen in more detail and becomes less convincing, and the fanbase is still whining about how they hates it, they hates it forever!
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Clement Rage said:
I thought the whole deal was to recapture the original version and not have to deal with the impurity of modern updates?

In higher visual quality, most likely all the SFX is seen in more detail and becomes less convincing, and the fanbase is still whining about how they hates it, they hates it forever!
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An actual, totally unedited 4K version of the theatrical cuts exist out there, made by fans using the old film reels from theaters. People want that shit. I'm not even a big star wars fan, and I think it's a total joke that the unedited versions are not available in high quality officially. It's strange that we live in a world where a movie as niche as Blade Runner has a set containing all 5 major revisions of the film, but something as big as Starwars you have to pirate for that stuff.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
We'd need to see it to be sure of how well it works.

People want a lot of things. It doesn't mean they're automatically entitled to get them.
 
crazyrabbits23

crazyrabbits23

yes.
AKA
Alex
Odysseus said:
An actual, totally unedited 4K version of the theatrical cuts exist out there, made by fans using the old film reels from theaters. People want that shit. I'm not even a big star wars fan, and I think it's a total joke that the unedited versions are not available in high quality officially. It's strange that we live in a world where a movie as niche as Blade Runner has a set containing all 5 major revisions of the film, but something as big as Starwars you have to pirate for that stuff.
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I've heard several rumors about this over the years. One of the biggest (which is "kind of" supported by a BTS feature included on a CD-ROM published many years ago for the Making of the Special Editions) claims that the original negative for the original film was too damaged, and that rather than go to the effort of trying to preserve said negative, Lucas elected to take a higher-gen copy of said negatives and add his own "updated" vision into it.

Of course, that argument falls flat when you discover that the Library of Congress has a copy of the unaltered original prints in their libraries, and there are multiple parties, including historian/preservationist Robert Harris, who have offered to lend their services for free. The whole issue inspired the creation of a site, originaltrilogy.com, which I've been a member of for many years, and has done far more work to restore that original vision, not just through the 4K releases, but offshoots like Adywan's versions of the films, which make changes that are far more sensible and low-key (FX fixes, additional background action) while still keeping the OT original prints and not the SE cuts.

There's also a rumor that Lucas has/had a long-standing veto over the original cut(s) of the films, either due to old shame, not wanting to let Disney compromise his vision, or some other arrangement with the former Marcia Lucas, who supposedly has part-control over those cuts.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
I tend to be suspicious of rumours these days.

Edit: I took a look around that site, there's a lot of arguments, but none of them stand up very well IMO.

'It needs to be preserved for history' It is, Congress has the print.

'We need to recapture the original experience' What, and you think theatres in 1977 were in 4K?

'We need to make Marcia Lucas/Griffin get the acknowledgement she deserves' Apart from the Oscar, you mean?

There's a whole article full of scummy tricks like reframing George's speech to Congress about ensuring films are kept in the hands of the artists that created them as an argument against him re-editing his own work.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Chapter 1 of the first book of Project Luminous is up on IGN. Release next January?

Hmm. It's an odd one. The Republic expanding its reach sounds oddly imperialist, which I'm sure is not lost on these writers.

So, tentatively, this hyperspace traffic accident shuts down traffic between worlds, forcing individual outposts to fend for themselves. That's a great idea, no doubt, but what will they do with it?

Sounds like another space Western, which is pretty well mined territory right now. Otherwise, my concern is still the same

I said:
The canon at the moment has been trading heavily on complaining about the PT era Jedi, from TCW to M&A to the ST. If that keeps up into PL, I suspect they will run into problems, because it's treading the same ground as before, and they have to avoid actually progressing to something new because of the timeline.
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
It's a weird one. Sort of hamstrung before it started because a lot of episodes that could have developed setups never happened or were already covered in things like Son of Dathomir, and most of the key players have already booked their tickets to Rebels, so the stakes are shaky. They had to do too much in too little time, and it shows.

Acting, performances, and animations were top notch, but I'm really left wondering if the writing was self aware of what it was doing or not.

As mentioned, Bo-Katan trying to call out Obi Wan on not caring about Satine... Really, writers?

Ahsoka left the Jedi over a legitimate grudge because they didn't defend her when she was accused of a crime, not because of any philosophical difference. But it's played here as this giant difference which everyone keeps talking about, even Maul starts complaining about Jedi hypocrisy (which is what? It's not like the Jedi Council was behind the bombing).

She complains about the Jedi playing politics while pushing for regime change in Mandalore with a straight face.

And then Ahsoka has speeches about not wanting to kill anyone while unleashing Maul in the full knowledge that he will kill people.That's just rules-lawyering and 'well, technically'. Rex of all people needs to be told not to kill his brothers?

She's so insanely hypocritical at every turn, and none of it seems to be called out by the narrative, it's so bizarre.

Maul's plan A is... to lure Anakin to Mandalore and kill him, optionally with the help of Obi Wan (good luck with that)...and then what? Now you have Sidious' attention and no way to defend yourself from it, because your power base is destroyed. If he wanted to bring down Sidious, all he had to do was say 'Sidious is Palpatine' when he first returned, instead he has this convoluted plan that goes nowhere. I guess he could kill Anakin and then reveal Sids' identity, but he obviously doesn't think the Jedi can take Sids, so why would he think he could?

Plan B is to recruit Ahsoka...which runs into the same problem. What makes him think they can take Sidious when he couldn't do it with Savage?
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
I avoided the Mandalorian for a long time, because I disliked everything I heard about it, and hatewatching something is the last refuge of the damned. But I also felt like I was being unfair judging sight unseen, and I've been surprised by things I was not expecting to be good before. So, I've disgraced my name by finally giving in to the inevitable, for better or worse.

It's okay, exceeding my very low expectations. Episode 1 is weak enough, with a lot of heavy handed exposition (everything blue fish man says, Mando telling the people who adopted him 'I was once a foundling.')

The music is nice, and so is the credits sequence.

I don't like the tracking fobs, as they kind of defeat the point of bounty hunting. All the tracking and detective work is taken out, in favour of 'follow the blinking light'. Mando being the best bounty hunter in the parsec is a lot less impressive in light of this, all he needs to be is a good fighter, which the armour helps a lot with. It feels like a mark or catching a Chocobo, go to the dot on the minimap and go into combat mode.

A lot of this seems to operate on video game logic. Apart from 'follow the blinking light on the minimap, Mando can scan his surroundings but be ambushed by an animal anyway because they entered the battle screen. The animal that tried to eat him an hour ago can safely be ridden because he completed the 'break the horse' mini game from Red Dead Redemption.

The references to other stuff are not quite as in my face as I was expecting (you were right about that in the Kenobi thread, TTM, at least so far.)

Baby Yodaling I'm also not keen on. Learning anything about this species breaks one of George's only hard rules, and giving Yoda's species a special insight into the Force is the final nail in the coffin of that 'force is inclusive' thing they're trying to push elsewhere. Be born a particular species, and you get racial bonuses, apparently. (Look, we'll even dress him in brown and give him a round floaty crib in case you can't remember who Yoda was). It feels like the kind of writing that goes 'the whole species/culture is exactly like the one character in the main movies', which is a classic mistake of expanded universes in general.

Episode 2 improves, but still feels a bit sidequesty 'return the quest item to the Jawas in order to fix your ship.' Good sequence chasing the sandcrawler, mystery farmer has every skill the lead needs, including ship repair and Jawa locating, and knowing where the bounty is, and is willing to do it for the random stranger.

This comes off as more negative than I am, I do want to see what happens next, but there are plenty of issues as well.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
3 is a strong Episode.

Blacksmith Lady is wearing a
Maul helmet,
I wonder if she made the 'no removing helmets' rule so that she wouldn't have to reveal her identity. (Please please please do not be a Clone Wars character in disguise)

The problem with wrapping your lead in a suit of impenetrable armour is that the Mexican standoffs that keep happening don't really work. All the times he's held up have little tension, because even if they shoot him he's probably fine. I mean, they could potentially hurt him if they get lucky, but as the opposition don't have the same armour he has really good odds of coming out fine even if they get a shot off.

4 is pretty good, the main issue is a lot of narrative shortcuts. Punching someone in the face when they're wearing a helmet doesn't really work, you just hurt yourself. Beskar's one weakness- punching! Another Mexican standoff with shocktrooper lady, but Mando's wearing a helmet and she's not...

This story needs more time to work, more getting to know the villagers, more getting to know the opposition. Another Episode would have helped.
It's like they're going 'look, you get the reference, you know how this goes, let's just skip it.'

Then 5, the Tattooine episode. They do a good job with the callbacks, but there's still far too many. It also illustrates why the fobs break the concept of bounty hunting. You don't need contacts or tracking abilities, you just need a fob and a good suit of armour. All those bail jumpers might have some kind of tracker implanted in them, but Shand seems unlikely. I will assume she was waiting for whoever found her, as otherwise it just seems weird that she was just lying on a random ridge in the desert with no apparent transport.

Also, if the Mos Eisley Cantina used to be a bounty hunter bar, that guy announcing that he's wanted in twelve systems was even dumber than he already was.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Here is where things really go downhill.

Interesting, but not enough time spent on it.

The Stormtrooper joke is very out of place. It doesn't make sense in universe. They've killed thousands, probably millions of people in universe,
. It would be like making an 'incompetent battle droids' joke in front of Mando, who watched his family be slaughtered by them. That's the kind of joke that gets people stabbed.

A lot of good ingredients here, but they still keep making too many shortcuts.

They're on the clock for most of the episode, and then suddenly all forget about it to go hunt Mando one by one.

And the New Republic are following the prison guard's distress signal, right? Why would they destroy the space station when he might be alive down there as far as they know?

So, the gang returns to Navarro to kill the Imp sending all these bounty hunters...

Bounty Hunter Guild Commander gets poisoned... and the Baby Yoda heals him.

Wow. Just wow. Anakin Skywalker damned himself for the chance to learn that skill, and this baby can just do it. This is such careless writing that it's actually hard to believe. How could no one spot this? The narrative purpose is to make the head bounty hunter switch sides, but you can do that just fine by saving him from the monsters. It's not 'rock and hard place' writing, it's just carelessness.

So Bounty Hunter head kills his own men, and they decide to bring in Mando as a fake captive, and send Baby Yoda back to the ship, using the crib to pretend he's still there.

If only there was some kind of device the Imperials had access to to detect the Yodaling's location, huh?

Bonus point: So you've taken the Mandalorian captive.

Why did you let him keep all his armour?
Why did you not put him in carbonite?
How exactly did you pull that off, considering he killed half your guild last time?

There's no way they should buy this for a second. This is the problem with introducing things like carbonite for a throwaway reference, if you haven't thought out how it integrates with your worldbuilding, it causes problems down the line.

Bonus bonus point: Mando's ship has a Lockdown mode that nothing on Navarro can get through. Seems like that would have been useful against those Jawas.

We open with another Stormtrooper joke. Not as bad as the other one, but it's a bit of a problem when you deflate your primary opposition right before the final showdown.

Moff Gideon has killed a bunch of his own men for no reason, but holds off on assaulting the bar because he needs to interrogate them to find the child. Such a shame there's not any other means of tracking him. They line up like targets in a shooting gallery and just stand around while a heavy gun is brought up.

Then IG-11, whose primary directive is to protect the child, decides that the safest way to do this is to take him into a warzone strapped to his chest.

The stormtroopers who are the bulk of Gideon's forces provide little obstacle, with most of the threat coming from the death troopers and a guy with a flamethrower with higher HP.

Eventually, they flee into the tunnels, which are lava sewers somehow, and come across horned blacksmith, who I am very suspicious of now as there is no way she hasn't heard of the Jedi. Stormtroopers are waiting to ambush them at the exit, and are conveniently standing in range of the self destruct, which is conveniently not capable of collapsing the tunnel or anything.

Then Gideon shows up for the final bossfight, and when he goes down they are mysteriously convinced that there are no more stormtroopers and wander off into the sunset.

This comes off as more negative than I am, this show is mostly tolerably ok until the finale, but the things that stand out to me veer towards the negative. I can't explain the writing, the people involved should be better than this, and they don't seem to be short of money or time or investment, so I don't know how they created something so slapdash and careless. I'd call it lazy, but that's obviously not true, so I outright don't understand this. How did this happen?

The whole premise of the season is built on how dangerous those tracking fobs are, but they have to completely forget about it the central threat of the story for the finale, because it's otherwise story breaking.

References exist just to be references, and once the reference is made they just fall out of the story because they're there to make audiences go 'hey, I get that' and not built into the story beyond that. Very careless.

Anakin's prequel storyline is just casually broken for no reason, because... they wanted to tie into Force healing in TROS? I have no idea.

They veer into Westerny tropes like 'break the horse' or 'defend the village from raiders' but don't do the work to justify the scenarios. I think that might be why they have so many standoffs despite the lead having the large advantage of being in very blaster resistant armour. They're taking 'space Western' too literally, and not thinking out how to make these situations actually work in this setting.

Admittedly I'm in analytical mode because I disliked most of what I heard about this show, but other things in similar situations have surprised me. Performances and characters are good, CGI is...ropey, to be honest, but I can forgive that because TV budget. Action ranges from good to weak, depending on the episode, the best one is Mando storming the safe house in Ep 3.

At best, this is an okay show with massive glaring holes in it.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Qui Gon is interesting because he's pretty blank, so the fandom projects onto him what they expect. He's a rebel against the Jedi Council to a degree, which for some comes off as him bulling ahead blindly causing catastrophe for listening to nobody and sealing Anakin's fate against good advice, but for some he's the rebel who did everything right if only he was listened to.

It's an interesting article, it does point out some of Qui Gon's failings, but seems to underestimate how difficult it would be to end slavery. It's not as easy as just flashing your sabre and the whole planet folds. Jedi can't liberate planets alone, as established when the TF forces them to flee in the opening, because they can't fight a whole army.

RLM's feature length review of TPM is worthless as criticism. They mix up 'adhering to a formula' with 'good storytelling' and criticise the film for not being a certain formula (the Three Act Structure, popularised by Syd Field) as though that in itself is a fault. It's full of misleading arbitrary metrics presented as insightful analysis.

Edit:; I dragged things off track again, didn't I? Apologies to all.
 
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