Misc Star Wars Tangents

AKA
TresDias
#76
@Roger
I guess I was unclear. I was responding to the argument that trying to free the slaves shouldn't be attempted because their slavers may kill them in a "if I go down, they all go down" kind of move, in the event mind tricks don't work on them to prevent it.

Palpatine intended precisely that. Many worlds -- including a demilitarized Naboo (his own defenseless homeworld) and the most loyal planet in the empire (Vardos, location of the Future Imperial Leaders Military Preparatory School) -- were ravaged just because he wanted to punish the entire galaxy for his defeat.

The question, then, is whether the same defeatism should apply to the matter of deposing the emperor. Should the galaxy have been left in his hands just because he was petty enough to burn loyalist and rebel alike to death if he should be overthrown?
 
AKA
Minato
#77
@Roger
I guess I was unclear. I was responding to the argument that trying to free the slaves shouldn't be attempted because their slavers may kill them in a "if I go down, they all go down" kind of move, in the event mind tricks don't work on them to prevent it.

Palpatine intended precisely that. Many worlds -- including a demilitarized Naboo (his own defenseless homeworld) and the most loyal planet in the empire (Vardos, location of the Future Imperial Leaders Military Preparatory School) -- were ravaged just because he wanted to punish the entire galaxy for his defeat.

The question, then, is whether the same defeatism should apply to the matter of deposing the emperor. Should the galaxy have been left in his hands just because he was petty enough to burn loyalist and rebel alike to death if he should be overthrown?
As we now know, he was neither overthrown nor defeated. the destruction of Operation Cinder was to create massive bodycounts that might or might not account for every missing person as a cover to take his loyal troops and disappear into the Unknown Region. Keep in mind that a Star Destroyer has a crew complement of tens of thousands of people, the hundreds of Star Destroyers that left to become the First Order are crewed by millions of people for whom the war never ended. The SECOND fleet of Star Destroyers we see in trailers is likewise crewed by millions of people likely descended from people for whom the rule of the Emperor never ended. The Emperor lost territory thanks to the Rebel Alliance, but still outlasted the Rebel Alliance in the end.

But yes, war has causalties anyway, the Galactic Civil War meant accepting civil causalties, so would this one, not just because slavers are sore losers, but if you sent a liberation fleet to Tatioone, you'll like kill plenty of slaves in the attack in your own right.
Still worth it, to end slavery, but what happens after the slavers are gone and Tatioone is just a barely habitable world that has no economy supporting anymore as you've just annihilated it's civilisation. Without Republic planets and fleets to agree to bring relief long-term all the slaves die anyway, regardless of what the slavers do or don't do. It's not something a Jedi can fix with his lightsaber or his mindtricks. Unless the mindtricks are done to the leaders of democratic worlds and you keep doing it for decades, at some point the inhabitants of Tatioone are gonna find themselves abandoned to their lot by their saviours. For the Jedi to end the Huttese civilisation they need either Republic approval or submit to being dictators themselves.
 
#78
Honestly, I think changing the attachments rule probably makes things worse. Palpatine will find out about them and use them against him, which is something he's extremely good at. Bringing Schmi to Coruscant just gives him another lever to use against him, ranging from having her killed to marrying her.

Re casualties, no they should not be disregarded, it's a constant cost/benefit analysis, case by case. 'Does this operation justify the cost?' Deciding not to make that analysis is the point where you become the thing you're fighting against.

That's why you have to plan it properly. You can fight against the Empire, but there's always that cost/benefit analysis that has to happen. 'How can we minimise casualties to innocents'

Suppose you make an example out of that slave owner. A number of slaveowners take their least valuable slaves and make the same example out of them, stroke for stroke, they replicate whatever you did to your example.

Was it worth it?

What you absolutely should not do is charge in blindly on principle with no regard for the cost to the slaves you are trying to free.

The Jedi don't have a fleet to use (they have to use Kamino's newly commissioned warships in the TCW). They have Starfighters, but you can't bring supplies on those, which you will need to assault Tattooine (especially water). It's not such an easy thing to do.

How many Jedi do you think it takes to conquer Tattooine?

It's just a matter of the different assumptions we're choosing to make. I have no difficulty in believing the Jedi are doing a lot of stuff we never get to see offscreen, just by nature of how vast the galaxy is. Not only do we not get to see every Jedi meeting, we don't even get to see the full meeting, we have no idea what they said about what happened on Tatooine, what Qui Gon left out of his report, or the answers to it.

I'll get back to you re my slavery plan shortly.
 
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