New forum for member feedback

[Ⓐaron]

vB doesn't currently offer an option for that. Of course, it could be programmed again, but again, the person who did it would have to be better at vB than I am.

The only way to find out who's on a person's ignore list currently is by running a database query. I could do that without any real trouble, but it would be a pretty big pain to have to run a query for every person we have to warn/infract. Again, it would probably be possible to code something into the board that would show us this information more easily, however.

 

[Octo]

Would it be possible for people to ignore a mod's posts but not their PMs?

Would you know (as mods) who is on someone's ignore list. Like say, if Road is on my ignore list, would he be aware of it? If so, then he would know not to be the person to infract or warn me for something because he'd know I wouldn't get the message.

^This, I just said this That would be a simpler option than having to fiddle about with vbulletin

 

[Joker]

We didn't think you were seriously threatening her with rape, but we though that was the essence of the joke behind your post. We didn't get that you were quoting her.

And I'm not really sure what loopholes Ryu's behaviour could be considered to be attempting to get around. As far as I know, making jokes doesn't currently fall afoul of any rules, even if they're stupid and offensive, and even if the person being quoted doesn't like the person making the jokes.

If I threatened to kill a member, and they reported the post, what then? =/

And it's not Ryu's behavior that I'm referring to in regards to loopholes - it's that of staff. Inappropriate and disruptive behavior IS a rule, and if not, then apparently I've been infracted before for something that isn't a rule.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If I threatened to kill a member, and they reported the post, what then? =/

My guess is that it would be infracted almost immediately. Though if there were reason to believe you were serious rather than joking, we probably would take it much further and contact the authorities. Again, this is why, because we thought your post was referencing Rishi rather than quoting her, it was infracted almost immediately. It's in the rules when you sign up - "you will not post anything that is threatening, harassing, etc." I can't remember the exact wording but I'm pretty sure it's part of the default vBulletin agreement and I'm pretty sure we left that part of it in there. If it's not, then it was a definite oversight on our part.

And it's not Ryu's behavior that I'm referring to in regards to loopholes - it's that of staff. Inappropriate and disruptive behavior IS a rule, and if not, then apparently I've been infracted before for something that isn't a rule.

I'm not really sure how staff has been intentionally inappropriate and disruptive? As far as I know we generally give people the benefit of the doubt on things like this when it's likely they could be doing something out of stupidity rather than malice. The "no loopholes" rule is there specifically for people who are being malicious.

 

[Cookie Monster]

If I threatened to kill a member, and they reported the post, what then? =/

And it's not Ryu's behavior that I'm referring to in regards to loopholes - it's that of staff. Inappropriate and disruptive behavior IS a rule, and if not, then apparently I've been infracted before for something that isn't a rule.

If the intent was serious, I'd say you'd probably be temp banned or permabanned. We knew the other post was a joke, and we know you and Rishi are friends. What we didn't know was that you were quoting her.

 

[Joker]

It seems inconsistent to me, but all right.

And no, I'm saying that it smacks of staff trying to backtrack to cover for Ryu. "Well, we don't have a rule against posts in bad taste", etc. And, I mean, the two have a history of this sort of thing, so it's not like it's not something that people are unaware of, either. I mean ffs I had an infraction for some dumb shit I did reversed for...no reason.

Which, FOR MY PART (can't speak for anyone else here) seems like a maneuver to avoid dealing with the issue people seem to have with Ryu's behavior.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Except there was no backtracking. As I said before. There was no rule broken, implied or otherwise, in Ryu's post. When we believed your joke was an explicit reference to her getting raped, we jumped on your post immediately because it was (to us) very clearly a rape joke. We only changed our minds when the reporters told us said context of report and everything behind it.

You're ignoring the fact that either way if we infracted your post or not, we ruled that Ryu's post was nowhere near close to yours. His joke was never about sexual violence, or in reference to a member. His joke offended Rishi, but we saw it as something that needed to be dealt with between the two of them, and have Ryu apologize for it.

Your two posts were never equivocal. Before or after we found out the context of your post.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Let's also add that the target of Ryu's joke was Jennifer Lawrence, whereas the target of (what we thought was) your joke was Rishi herself. Pretty big difference.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It seems inconsistent to me, but all right.

And no, I'm saying that it smacks of staff trying to backtrack to cover for Ryu. "Well, we don't have a rule against posts in bad taste", etc. And, I mean, the two have a history of this sort of thing, so it's not like it's not something that people are unaware of, either. I mean ffs I had an infraction for some dumb shit I did reversed for...no reason.

Which, FOR MY PART (can't speak for anyone else here) seems like a maneuver to avoid dealing with the issue people seem to have with Ryu's behavior.

No one is avoiding anything. If this entire clusterfuck with Ryu didn't happen, I'd still retract it. In fact, I did so without contacting the other staff members first. I'm not covering for anyone.

 

[Joker]

Mako edit because people post while I'm typing ():
That's not how several other people seem to feel about it, but all right.

Also, if you were wondering about context and what happened, and this has been causing discussion for days, um...I'm noticing nobody ever asked me for anything about this.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I did PM Rishi and Aki about it, feel free to post your side of the story.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You're right, we didn't. We asked the person who issued the report instead, for obvious reasons.

 

[Joker]

I have posted my side of the story My point is more that if there was all of this going on, it seems logical to also get some info from the offending party.

 

[Octo]

I have posted my side of the story My point is more that if there was all of this going on, it seems logical to also get some info from the offending party.

I think this should be a standard action in all cases. I mean, unless someone posts something blatant like: 'I'm going to kill you bitch 111!111?' or something, people should be given a chance to explain themselves and apologise. Even if an infraction still stands I think it would help to smooth things over when people have an issue, speaking generally here.

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Omega: You know, come to think of it, that may be another reason why infracting staff members usually gets delayed. They're in staff section, they see the reported post, and it's much easier for them to defend themselves. Meanwhile, you as the offender, never get the opportunity to do so. Interesting. From now on, I'll make it my prerogative to speak the offending party more often.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Also, typing from my phone sucks huge monkey balls.

 

[Joker]

What I did was indefensible, but if someone had been like "uh so wtf happened here guy", it seems to me that this would have been sorted days ago. That's all.

Also yes, yes it does. The mobile skin can only do so much for crappy autocorrecting ._.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah Masa, you can't ignore mods/staff. Though I do actually think it would be a good idea in this instance.

...

I'm not saying nobody is allowed to find something offensive, but we have a very loose forum here in terms of what people say and joke about, I don't think Ryu should be singled out as if its just him. So if we need to be more explicit and tighten up the rules then thats one thing, but it should be across the board. Even if thats to the detriment of the 'atmosphere' here.

The problem seems to be that when Ryu makes one of these posts, he isn't infracted for it and he should know better. It's not just "Ryu made an offensive post" it's "He, again, made an offensive post toward someone he knows he isn't on good terms with and, again, mods didn't infract him for it." Not only that be he apolozied to the other person who was offended but not Rishi. It's not Ryu that's being singled out here, it's Rishi. At least that's my understanding. Mako himself (I think correct me if I'm wrong) said the report wasn't taken seriously at first.

can we just

for a second here

can we just

this was the WHOLE BIG MASSIVE THING THAT STRETCHED ACROSS TWO FORUMS BECAUSE IT BROKE THIS ONE

that this is ryu and how he is

but it still caused a problem, and unless his computer reads his mind he still has to type and press the submit post button, and all this was made clear as day last time and yet it happens again

this is the part that i get stuck on, seriously. that this exploded into a big thing in the past (on more than one occasion, if i think about it), yet the blame seems to be shuffling from the guy who caused it, and several times in the forum's history, to everyone else and their sensitivities

Listen to this man, he's very wise.

It may not be EXACTLY the same as last time, but really guys, how many times does this have to happen before you realize it's a problem?

 

[Octo]

Ok so its obvious that Ryu rubs some people up the wrong way, so:

Well, we have three options I guess:

1) Ryu and Rishi and anyone else who has been offended by him resolve their issues in a nice civil manner - not PM if people don't feel comfortable with that.

2) Ryu is given a list of members that he has to make doubly sure of not posting anything potentially offensive/provocative. Which is problematic in itself as there are no set rules of what is/isn't offensive, and when you're talking about personal opinion/judgement then mistakes are going to be made.

3) Liberal use of the ignore button, which in this case would have to be extended to mods.

?

Thats all I can come up with anyway.

These are my propositons that hopefully would avoid such a thing happening again in future. Has anyone else got anything to add? Are these shit ideas? I'd just like to move forward somehow and try and solve this thing.

I'd like to add to 2) there that maybe Ryu should just avoid interacting with the people on the list beyond anything thats just serious talk.

I know none of these solutions are ideal, but I don't think asking Ryu to use his own judgement works as it seems to be at odds with a few other people.

 

[Dashell]

Has anyone else got anything to add?

Use common sense when posting? (goes for everyone BTW Not just Ryu)

 

[Octo]

Use common sense when posting? (goes for everyone BTW Not just Ryu)

If this thing has showed anything, its that theres no such thing as 'common sense' Yeah, Ryu and Rishi have had past issues so in this instance he should probably have known better. But there are others who've said they find him creepy and inappropriate, yet myself and others have no problem with him - despite the fact that we don't know each other very well.

I just think it would be easier if Ryu doesn't interact with the people who have said they've found him 'creepy'. Otherwise we're just waiting for this to happen again.

I agree that overall people should be a bit more tactful with what they're posting and their attitude towards other members.

 

[Dashell]

Let me expand upon my post up there a bit... Ryu's a smart guy. I know he is. Half the time I don't even know what he's talking about. I don't think it's necessary to hold his hand though posting and tell him "You can respond to so and so but not so and so" because, god dammit, the guy is smart and he knows better.

nor do I feel it's a good idea to have the ability to ignore mods just because Ryu made a mistake. That just seems like a very extreme step to take because of one mod and before you know it, a mod is going to make a post in a thread that someone has on ignore and then they don't see a warning a mod makes to get "Back on topic" and they get infracted.. and low and behold we have drama again.

Like I said, Ryu's a smart guy, he knows better. He should know better at least and I think he can do better. He just needs to use those smarts to really think before he does these things. That's all that needs to be done and that's the easiest of solutions to me.

 

[Octo]

Let me expand upon my post up there a bit... Ryu's a smart guy. I know he is. Half the time I don't even know what he's talking about. I don't think it's necessary to hold his hand though posting and tell him "You can respond to so and so but not so and so" because, god dammit, the guy is smart and he knows better.

nor do I feel it's a good idea to have the ability to ignore mods just because Ryu made a mistake. That just seems like a very extreme step to take because of one mod and before you know it, a mod is going to make a post in a thread that someone has on ignore and then they don't see a warning a mod makes to get "Back on topic" and they get infracted.. and low and behold we have drama again.

Like I said, Ryu's a smart guy, he knows better. He should know better at least and I think he can do better. He just needs to use those smarts to really think before he does these things. That's all that needs to be done and that's the easiest of solutions to me.

But isn't this pretty much what was concluded last time? I don't think Ryu is stupid at all, but I don't think he deliberately sets out to offend either.

 

[Strangelove]

But isn't this pretty much what was concluded last time? I don't think Ryu is stupid at all, but I don't think he deliberately sets out to offend either.

that was kind of my point before

it was

and look what happened

the same thing as last time

 

[Octo]

that was kind of my point before

it was

and look what happened

the same thing as last time

So we need a solid resolution, Ryu rubs some people the wrong way so we need to find ways of avoiding it happening in future. So either we need to clear the air, because I honestly don't think there is any malice intended. Or failing that just make it so people who don't want to don't have to interact with him.