New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[Tennyo]

I would think that the "Cloud's Star and Aerith's Star" line was a red herring. I mean, Caith Sith's credibility is questionable.

 

[Joker]

OR IS IT

Reeve can apparently make stuff COME TO LIFE, so who's to say he's not a Mako-powered divining rod or something?

Not to mention Cloud having a crush on Tifa as a kid, but then NEVER MAKING ANY MOVE ON HER AT ALL AS AN ADULT EVER.

Can't speak for anyone else, but if I were in that position, I would be tapping that like nobody's business. =/

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

So, to summarize: Discuss the topic if you don't like it, ignore the thread if you don't.

CONTRADICTIONS ARE ACTUALLY CONFUSING ME PRZ CHANGE BRO? ;_;

 

[Zee]

Actually, Zee and winter expressed their distaste for the thread. Which is where the conversation was prior to your entrance. One of them (Zee maybe) suggested moving the discussion to Faith. Meaning, she wants the thread closed and taken to Faith.

Um, no.

I don't really care about discussing the LTD in general. This thread in particular should probably be closed to give a fresh start considering the directions it's gone in, but that's just my opinion. Clarifying that for you since you misunderstood.

Advent Children. Cloud and Tifa are living together, albeit with kids. If they weren't an item, it would make sense for SOMEONE else to also be there living with them, like Barret and Marlene (who already knows Tifa, and would have kids to play with, etc), or Yuffie or something.

Barret was living with them, he left on that energy expedition and left Marlene in Tifa's care in CoT.

The only kid Cloud and Tifa have claim to is Denzel, also. Marlene is more like their niece. : \

P.S.: even if Aerith lived, she and Cloud wouldn't have mind blowing sex; reason: Tifa. She can't compete with the feelings that live in Cloud's heart, even if she had lived. XD I don't believe that her romance was heading anywhere *because* soon after she dies we find out he loves another girl and spends the night with her.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Can't speak for anyone else, but if I were in that position, I would be tapping that like nobody's business. =/

Which is why he does the instant she says "Hey Cloud, wanna do it?" He just didn't know he should make his move until then.

 

[Max Payne]

Which is why he does the instant she says "Hey Cloud, wanna do it?" He just didn't know he should make his move until then.

been reading doujins again huh brooke?

 

[Madame Mayor]

lol "words aren't the only way" "wanna do it" same thing.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i would totally tell my boyfriend 'words arent the only way'

except he'd prolly laugh at me then

 

[Dashell]

I don't really care about discussing the LTD in general. This thread in particular should probably be closed to give a fresh start considering the directions it's gone in, but that's just my opinion. Clarifying that for you since you misunderstood.

Yeah but you've been against this thread since the beginning before hardly anyone posted in it.

Look, Zee, we know you don't like the fact that we put Clerith down a lot and you probably don't like all the Cloti support. You can say that and you're welcome to that mindset. In fact, I think it's wanting less hate is a good mindset. We would probably have much more interesting conversations if not for all the hate. But don't pretend that your problem with this thread is something that it's not. There's no reason to pussy foot around like that and it becomes pretty obvious when you're not being completely honest.

I think that's why Tres said not to talk about what goes on at CxA or elsewhere or whatever. They're trying to eliminate all that hate and bashing here. That should at least get us somewhere back on track. And honestly I'm not sure how much locking and restarting AGAIN would do. It did nothing the first few times...

 

[Zee]

I've never had any problems stating my displeasure of the Cleris smacktalk and if that was my sole problem with the thread it's not like I'm exactly shy in letting people know that.

 

[Celes Chere]

NEVER MAKING ANY MOVE ON HER AT ALL AS AN ADULT EVER.

Not so.
He tells Tifa that since they were children, his feelings have never changed. He also says her opinion matters the most, and thanks her above anyone else. They spend a night together and share mutual feelings... I think that counts as a making a move.

 

[Winter]

P.S.: even if Aerith lived, she and Cloud wouldn't have mind blowing sex; reason: Tifa. She can't compete with the feelings that live in Cloud's heart, even if she had lived. XD I don't believe that her romance was heading anywhere *because* soon after she dies we find out he loves another girl and spends the night with her.

haha what are you for real?

is there some unspoken rule that first girl always wins? you guys need to lay off the TVtropes, this is not how realistic relationships always work out.

personal experience: I left the girl I'd pined after for 4 years for someone I'd known two months and have never regretted it, even after both relationships fell apart. love is fickle.

just because C/T is canon doesn't mean FFVII is a beautiful perfect love story. don't even get me started on red herrings and highwind sex. cloti's the most heavily hinted at, not openly affectionate. don't push your luck, nomura and the crew still don't give a shit about your pairing.

also
>mfw Zee spent more years hanging out in Faith on ACF than most of you have even been in this fandom
YEAH SHE JUST HATES CLOTI OH YEAH THIS THREAD IS NOT POINTLESS AT ALL AND YOU ARE TOTALLY JUST RUINING IT, ZEE. GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE

 

[Celes Chere]

YEAH SHE JUST HATES CLOTI OH YEAH THIS THREAD IS NOT POINTLESS AT ALL AND YOU ARE TOTALLY JUST RUINING IT, ZEE. GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE

CLERITHS. RUIN. EVERYTHING!

 

[KissTheRain]

CLERITHS. RUIN. EVERYTHING!

Naughty, naughty Tiffy. >:C CAN'T WE JUST TALK ABOUT OUR OPINIONS ON OTHER FICTIONAL PEOPLE'S LOVES LIVES WITH SOME DECENCY SO WE CAN CONTINUE THIS SEMI ORGY IN A CIVILIZED MANNER. MOTHERFUCKERS.



Alright, so as this is now a discussion why don't we discuss something about these two pairings, such as possibly what makes them appealing? What makes you ship them rather than them just being canon? (Shipping =/= canon, ex. My otp: Riku/Kairi; Pairing I strongly dislike: Tidus/Yuna) How do you consider them to be romantic?

I'll start with Clerith. I think that they are incredibly romantic because of how I see Cloud changes for the better as he gets to know Aerith. He was cold, stoic, and mean, but with Aerith he was kind, he was fighting for something. Then all while she has put his mind at ease, it is all torn away right in front of his eyes. After, that he is thrown into chaos and for literally years afterwards is waiting for her to ease his sins, but to Cloud he is the only one to blame. Aerith left a mark on Cloud he could never forget, she impacted his life the way only a lover could. People have friends, family, lovers, but the way Cloud always lets himself fall because he can't get over what he did to this special person, the person he can never forget is a type of unconditional love that is absolutely beautiful and unforgettable.

Now, as for why I like Cloti is because Tifa understands Cloud. She knows all that he has been through and cares through him through all his weakest days. I think they are strong with each other. Tifa mends Cloud's mind, she takes care of him with her whole heart, and gives him a reason to keep going even when he thinks hope is completely lost. Then when Tifa was down Cloud had her sleep on his shoulder and when she wasn't smiling he reminded her how strong she was and reassured her that Tifa is strong, and she can always make it through. As long as they have each other they can always make it to the end. Tifa is Cloud's best friend, the one person that gives him the push to actually continue on. They have a bond that no one can deny. When I see them, I feel reassurance....I know they will always have one another to lean on.

This is all optional before anyone bitches, so now what about you? What do you view their relationship/s as? What makes you feel a connection to them?

 

[Tir McDohl]

haha what are you for real?

is there some unspoken rule that first girl always wins? you guys need to lay off the TVtropes, this is not how realistic relationships always work out.

personal experience: I left the girl I'd pined after for 4 years for someone I'd known two months and have never regretted it, even after both relationships fell apart. love is fickle.

just because C/T is canon doesn't mean FFVII is a beautiful perfect love story.

It's a video game, though. So you can only go by what's shown throughout the story, right? I don't think anyone would disagree that love can be fickle, but in fiction it isn't unless it's shown to be. And C/T has problems(which is also how realistic relationships go too, isn't it?), but going by the definition of the word, changeable: likely to change, especially in affections, intentions, loyalties, or preferences, either's feelings being fickle isn't one of them. Isn't it because those feelings were shown to be the opposite of fickle that they got through the rough patches?

I don't personally think it likely that Cloud and Aerith would have gotten together even if she'd lived. But that's not because I think that Aerith could never compete with the "Miss Perfect Tifa"; it's not got a whole lot to do with Aerith's character at all.

It's looking at the big picture, the whole story that makes me think they were driving towards C/T from the beginning.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I find it almost surreal that the argument 'well ff7 isn't real life, so c/t's relationship can occur in a fantasy-like manner' is used in the same argument as 'it is because ff7 is realistic that cloud and tifa sometimes go through rough patches'.

 

[Tir McDohl]

That wasn't my argument.

But VII has both fantastic elements and realistic ones.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

It's a video game, though. So you can only go by what's shown throughout the story, right? I don't think anyone would disagree that love can be fickle, but in fiction it isn't unless it's shown to be. And C/T has problems(which is also how realistic relationships go too, isn't it?), but going by the definition of the word, changeable: likely to change, especially in affections, intentions, loyalties, or preferences, either's feelings being fickle isn't one of them. Isn't it because those feelings were shown to be the opposite of fickle that they got through the rough patches?

okay i really don't get why you included the definition of changeable. are you saying their love is changeable, unchangeable, what? idgi srsly.

Basically, original argument within this line of thought was 'Aerith died, therefore the Clerith relationship must have been going nowhere and we ended with C/T'. Which since this was going off of the hypothetical situation of Aerith living, we really don't know. Had she lived, who knows whether they would have continued to have Cloud/Aerith hints. However, she ended up dying and so we had Tifa almost take the mantle of main heroine and helping out Cloud.

BLUH BLUH

 

[Tir McDohl]

okay i really don't get why you included the definition of changeable. are you saying their love is changeable, unchangeable, what? idgi srsly.

Un. Azula said it wasn't realistic to think that someone being first means they will absolutely be the last. She gave an example of love being fickle in real life.

I agree that first =/= last. I agree that love can be fickle.

But I don't think the feelings that have been shown to exist between C/T fit in with the definition(which is why I included it just for the hell)of the word.

Basically, original argument within this line of thought was 'Aerith died, therefore the Clerith relationship must have been going nowhere and we ended with C/T'.

But it was never my own original argument that C/T ended up together because Aerith died or "the fact that Aerith died makes it obvious that there was never anything to C/A" or "Tifa became the main heroine/love interest the moment Aerith died".

I did oversimplify when I answered the "if Aerith hadn't died" question, though. Sorry. I'll put more effort into it later.

 

[Eerie]

haha what are you for real?

Yes, I am.

is there some unspoken rule that first girl always wins? you guys need to lay off the TVtropes, this is not how realistic relationships always work out.

I never said it was because Tifa was the first. I said it was because it was her that Cloud loved and STILL love. I don't care about such weak points as "first girl wins" and I never hang out in TV Tropes either (except yesterday cause a friend linked me about an article about evil guys with beards... whatever XD).

just because C/T is canon doesn't mean FFVII is a beautiful perfect love story. don't even get me started on red herrings and highwind sex. cloti's the most heavily hinted at, not openly affectionate. don't push your luck, nomura and the crew still don't give a shit about your pairing.

I never said it was perfect. I don't believe people enjoying CloTi here think it's a perfect relationship, 'cause clearly it's not and Nomura enjoys to give them a lot of troubles to work on.
I don't have problems with not openly affectionate. I don't push my luck. I don't think they "care" about CloTi in that sense either, although they enjoy to give pushes towards it to support their vision of FFVII and the compilation.

I believe Aerith wouldn't have stood a chance BECAUSE few days after she dies, Cloud and Tifa confess to each other, have sex AND start a new life together. I don't believe that if Cloud had any romantic feelings towards Aerith he would have done so. I don't believe in jackass!Cloud, sorry. This is not the Cloud I see in the compilation - although I do see him as stupid sometimes, he's not a jerk, thank you. If he was, he could have ended up alone.

You seriously wishes for a guy who loves you to go and live with your love rival a few days after your death? I don't believe in such things. If Cloud did all of that, it was because Aerith's death didn't hinder the romantic feelings he had for Tifa.

And even if Aerith had lived, what could have she done? She STILL wouldn't have been able to help him during the Lifestream scene, which is the TURNING POINT of FFVII. Starting there, true!Cloud shows, him, his awkwardness, his shyness, his love for Tifa... and you cannot control his "feelings" anymore. The only difference would be that she would have been there for the Highwind sequence so they wouldn't have been able to have sex, obviously. For the rest? Pretty much the same, no? The only one whose actions/thoughts count would still be Tifa. Can you imagine the man you love saying this to another girl while he's losing himself, literally? I know that, as a woman, I wouldn't like it. At all.

So yeah. I'm serious.

 

[Vendel]

I just had an interesting thought. Now I know we shouldn't think about logistics too much. BUT it makes no sense that everyone during the HighWind scene was able to get to wherever they went and then back by the next day without the HW.

It just makes no damn sense.

So what would be the significance of SE ignoring all the rules of physics and logic? Did they really go through all the trouble of inventing an excuse to get Cloud and Tifa alone together under the HW in nearly impossible circumstances just so we can have a meaningless scene where they confirm friendship?

They had to be alone for that? With the HW floating in the background?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Oh, I missed another drama moment? The same people going on about how bad this thread is and pointless and hat we should really just quit picking on CxA now?

TLS has lots of other threads. You're welcome to explore them instead of this one

So what would be the significance of SE ignoring all the rules of physics and logic? Did they really go through all the trouble of inventing an excuse to get Cloud and Tifa alone together under the HW in nearly impossible circumstances just so we can have a meaningless scene where they confirm friendship?

They had to be alone for that? With the HW floating in the background?

You misunderstand. Cloud's just too lazy to walk to the lake he dumped Aeris' body in. He's stuck with Tifa not by choice, but circumstance.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i do not recall when the highwind scene was ever brought into question but, uh.

have fun with that.

And even if Aerith had lived, what could have she done? She STILL wouldn't have been able to help him during the Lifestream scene, which is the TURNING POINT of FFVII. Starting there, true!Cloud shows, him, his awkwardness, his shyness, his love for Tifa... and you cannot control his "feelings" anymore. The only difference would be that she would have been there for the Highwind sequence so they wouldn't have been able to have sex, obviously. For the rest? Pretty much the same, no? The only one whose actions/thoughts count would still be Tifa. Can you imagine the man you love saying this to another girl while he's losing himself, literally? I know that, as a woman, I wouldn't like it. At all.

but at the same time, if Aerith had lived, could she have had the lifestream scene with herself and cloud using her MAGICS CETRA POWERS WOOGIE WOOGIE

but let's be honest, a main reason WHY tifa even shone was because aerith died. She tended to stand back when it came to aerith being upfront with her feelings while tifa had a hard time saying how exactly she felt.

again, yes, it ended up with cloud and tifa. no doubt about that. but had aerith lived, can you honestly say you don't think she would have continued to flirt and the game would have continued to hint at some possible developing relationship between the two?

 

[Dashell]

Oh, I missed another drama moment? The same people going on about how bad this thread is and pointless and hat we should really just quit picking on CxA now?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

but at the same time, if Aerith had lived, could she have had the lifestream scene with herself and cloud using her MAGICS CETRA POWERS WOOGIE WOOGIE

And if Zack had lived Aerith wouldn't have done anything with Cloud. Is there a point to attempting to fanfic the facts? Because regardless of what 'COULD' have happened, there is what ACTUALLY happened.

This goes for the Cloti people too. Cut it out.

but let's be honest, a main reason WHY tifa even shone was because aerith died.

BZZZZT. No. Try again.

again, yes, it ended up with cloud and tifa. no doubt about that. but had aerith lived, can you honestly say you don't think she would have continued to flirt and the game would have continued to hint at some possible developing relationship between the two?

Again, yes, it ended up Cloud and Tifa, but had Zack lived can you honestly say Aerith would have given two shits about Cloud? Again, yes, Cloud and Tifa, but if Sephiroth had remained Aerith's first love like the creators wanted, can you honestly say he would have killed her? Again, yes, Cloud and Tifa, but if President Shinra hadn't been cur down, can you honestly say they would have even launched a shuttle or fired a Sister Ray? Pointless counterarguments to pointless arguments are, well, pointless.

**yawn**

I see I've missed absolutely nothing since I've been gone. Good to know.

Also, I'm heading back offline again, so the tandem teamwork headed my way won't be read. At least not immediately. But, if it makes ya feel better, you can imagine me frothing in fury and totally flummoxed at the witty and nonsensical rebuttals that are sure to come this way. The limited amount of fuck I still give on this debate is mostly for my own amusement, so amuse me.