New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

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Vendel

Banned
Of course I have always favored the idea that Hito put out not long after translation that Aeirth was listing off things and then stated Cloud is a symbol of all that.

Found what Hito was talking about. In all the hoopla over "beloved" this only got addressed in passing.

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=146634&postcount=809
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=148673&postcount=988

I wonder how our unreliable and biased translator feels about this now?
 

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
duty_calls.png
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves

Did you just totally post a random gif for any reason in particular or what here? Or did you just not read a single thing in the last few replies? Because that doesn't apply to ANYTHING that's going on in this thread right now. I can't even give you an A for effort when you use that gif that's totally overused.

TLDR:

1_04_02_11_12_16_18.gif

EDIT
Im gonna go back to my original gif..

I wonder how our unreliable and biased translator feels about this now?
Well I'd ask but he's so bias an unreliable :awesome:
 
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Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
Wel my GIF was related, yours was not. But lol keep at it Quex.
It was, if you couldn't tell, related to Vendel's closing comment.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
1_04_02_11_12_31_46.gif


So... yeah


basically more "baaw this thread exists and I don't like it so I'm going to start post some overused retarded gif to flex my e-peen" got it.
 
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Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
Pretty sure I said last time that I don't have anything against this thread, but good job once again. I guess the people that post regularly in this thread are allowed to post unrelated comments and gifs.

 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
So basically "I'm going to post unrelated gifs in a topic I hardly ever visit because..." what? Just bored?
 

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
1) Was related.
2) I always visit here.
3) Both of these points have been brought up before.
4) Anddddd now i'm bored.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
1) Was related.
2) I always visit here.
3) Both of these points have been brought up before.
4) Anddddd now i'm bored.

1. How when Vendel is not either staying up late to prove someone wrong or even saying anyone is wrong. He asked what we thought of Hito's PoV. Unless you mean he was saying I was wrong to which I don't give a shit and didn't plan on responding any further in which case there'd be no Vendel arguing with anyone.

2. To post nonsense usually.

3. OMG! Guys! GUYS! A point that was brought up in the LTD before was brought up again! HOLY SHIT!

4. Me too
 

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
1) Don't care anymore.
2) To read actually.
3) Oh the irony.
4) Bye,
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
1. Love the "I don't care and to show how much I don't care I'm going to keep responding" deal
2. Oh
3. Uh...
4. Later

So... Vendel, I didn't mean to distract from what you were trying to say. Hito, can you explain this conjunctive form thing by chance? I never quite understood it.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
--> EVERYONE ON TLS IS BORED.
--> EVERYONE POSTS GIFS/MACROS/ETC.
--> WHO CARES WHAT VENDEL POSTS
--> SRSLY GAIZ


jAiJe.gif
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
1) It has gotten a little bit spammy and chitchattery in here, guys, with the exception of Vendel's most recent posts. Please stop.

2) It's also gotten a little hostile, again with the exception of Vendel's most recent posts. Knock it off, all of you. Discuss the motivations, rationale and relevance of fictional people, not that of each other.

3) Posts comprised of numbered lists are so impersonal and condescending. =(

It's funny how Cloud and Aerith see each other as symbols of something rather than individuals leading up to AC/C.

Obviously they see still each other as individuals. Cloud's wanting Aerith's forgiveness specifically, Aerith is actually wanting to protect Cloud, etc.

Vendel said:
Of course I have always favored the idea that Hito put out not long after translation that Aeirth was listing off things and then stated Cloud is a symbol of all that.

A person can be both an example of something, as well as the symbol of that something in general. For instance, Martin Luther King Jr. -- an example of an activist of the Civil Rights Movement, and in many ways, the symbol of that effort.

You could take it a step further: the "I Have a Dream" speech is an example of MLK Jr.'s civil rights speeches, and the symbol of all that he said.

Aerith is an example of a person Cloud failed to save, as well as the overall symbol of those he failed to save. Likewise, Cloud was Aerith's friend and koibito, and -- by virtue of being those things -- the symbol for her of all she wanted to protect.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
1. im pretty glad karkat contacted equius to make him kick gamzee's and eridan's asses
2. i really hope he's able to, honest to god, he does work out all the fucking time
3. i srsly hope rezi is okay somehow i love her
4. this has absolutely nothing to do with the LTD but TAxCC FOREVER

other than that i agree with what tres said, it's not like cloud was like 'OH AERITH i remember nothing about you really BUT YOU REMIND ME OF WHAT A FAILURE I AM'

also lol@AERITH DID NOT THINK OF CLOUD AS HER KOIBITO HE ONLY ~*~REMINDS~*~ HER OF HER OWN. i am pretty sure that no matter what, aerith still loved cloud. whether you think it's shallow or NOT TRUE LOVE is up to you, but she loved him and it's a fact.
 

Elisa Maza

Whomst
I just noticed something.

FFVII 10th anv Ult Aerith's profile.
Two years after returning to the planet, Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off.

CoLW
Cloud was her friend, her beloved — a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.


It's funny how Cloud and Aerith see each other as symbols of something rather than individuals leading up to AC/C.

I think this happens only after her death. Even better, after the end of the OG. He has his memories of her as a person, she has her own memories of him as a person (even though she shouldn't... being dead and all -and *don't* get me started on the Cetra business!-), but death tends to change the dynamics... nifty little thing it is, this death.

I think they both saw each other as individuals while they were both alive (DUH), but these views "mutated" later and while they have their memories, the view they have on each other changed.


And if we apply the speaking literally standard to the top quote is Aerith Clouds Mom, Zack and Tifa as well?

You lost me. :no:
 
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Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Obviously they see still each other as individuals. Cloud's wanting Aerith's forgiveness specifically, Aerith is actually wanting to protect Cloud, etc.

definitely agree here, and with the other parts of your post. Lots of actions show that they care for one another as more than just symbols... I mean, I doubt they'd be a symbol of anything to each other without first growing close to one another as comrades (or lovers if you believe) first... because otherwise there'd be no reason for Cloud and Aerith to want to protect one another, and the impact of Aerith's death wouldn't have been so strong if she were just another person to him.
 

Joker

We have come to terms
AKA
Godot
3) Posts comprised of numbered lists are so impersonal and condescending. =(
icwutudidthar

Also, bullet points, too. I don't read Aaron's "piss you off" posts like that because it's like it's the notes/outline for a lecture >:

OT: They loved each other hurr durr aaaaand Tifa has bad taste in men.
 

Vendel

Banned
also lol@AERITH DID NOT THINK OF CLOUD AS HER KOIBITO HE ONLY ~*~REMINDS~*~ HER OF HER OWN. i am pretty sure that no matter what, aerith still loved cloud. whether you think it's shallow or NOT TRUE LOVE is up to you, but she loved him and it's a fact.

Right.... so let me requote Hito.
On an actual subject, did anyone ever talk about the structure of that sentence as a whole? You have friend and lover [then kind of trailing off with an implied 'and...'], then '----' followed by 'symbol of what is important'. Could you read that as Cloud being that symbol who represents for her those things (friends, lovers, and possibly unmentioned others)?
............
The way it breaks off between 'koi bito' sounds kind of like it's trailing off or missing something to me. But then those specific descriptions are followed up by a general one (symbol).

No one is saying Aerith did not care for Cloud. He is the symbol for everything she wants to protect. Just as we know Cloud cares for Aerith even though she is the symbol of all his failures.

Lilith said:
I think this happens only after her death. Even better, after the end of the OG. He has his memories of her as a person, she has her own memories of him as a person (even though she shouldn't... being dead and all -and *don't* get me started on the Cetra business!-), but death tends to change the dynamics... nifty little thing it is, this death.

I think they both saw each other as individuals while they were both alive (DUH), but these views "mutated" later and while they have their memories, the view they have on each other changed.

Thank you for spelling out a point I was making. Those 'symbol' quotes apply to after the game proper.

Sam Winchester said:
definitely agree here, and with the other parts of your post. Lots of actions show that they care for one another as more than just symbols... I mean, I doubt they'd be a symbol of anything to each other without first growing close to one another as comrades (or lovers if you believe) first... because otherwise there'd be no reason for Cloud and Aerith to want to protect one another, and the impact of Aerith's death wouldn't have been so strong if she were just another person to him.

Lilith spelled out a great point. One that seems lost on everyone else. When Aerith died the dynamic changed. Aerith's line is even in past tense. We can clearly see how Zacks death hits Cloud. Hell we still see him lamenting at the beginning of the movie. Are we to think he wasn't as important to Cloud because Aerith is the symbol of his failures? Was Zack less important to Aerith because Cloud is the living symbol of what she wants to protect?
 
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minimosey

Pro Adventurer
I'm just not getting how the symbolism is that big a deal since, as you pointed out, the line about Aerith being a symbol in her profile is in the past tense. She was a factor in Cloud closing himself off, as a symbol of his failures.

But he resolved that in ACC, leaving us with the present tense--Aerith lives on in her friends' hearts. Nothing about her being a symbol there.

And on the flipside, Aerith describes Cloud outside of being a symbol in Case of Lifestream ("someone to be protected"), with traits specific to him ("the Cloud she knew had a very fragile heart").

Your original post said they see each other as symbols rather than individuals, but I don't see anything that says they ever stopped thinking of each other as individuals, as Ariadne already said. Conversely, if Cloud had stopped thinking of Aerith as an individual, she'd be a rather shallow symbol of his failure to protect "those dear to him".

I mean, I certainly agree the dynamic changed after her death, Aerith can't go "teehee let's go on the airship!/let's go, bodyguard!" every other day when she's dead. But I think the relationship between the change and the symbolism is only indirect (Cloud's symbolism of Aerith is tied to her death).

Guess what word has stopped looking like a word to me.

Honestly, Hito's post is phrased as simply speculation, and I'd rather trust my own reading comprehension on this-- Cloud is a symbol of what's important to her because he is a friend and beloved. He is certainly a friend, there's no arguing that, and given that she worries over hurting him versus trying to get his help for a threat to the entire Planet, I don't think it's a stretch to think Cloud is beloved by Aerith.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I'm just not getting how the symbolism is that big a deal since, as you pointed out, the line about Aerith being a symbol in her profile is in the past tense. She was a factor in Cloud closing himself off, as a symbol of his failures.
The entire novel is in past tense people...

CoB says Barret's home town was Correl... does that mean it's not anymore?
 

minimosey

Pro Adventurer
...Right, and as I said, that line is in her profile, not her novel. And her profile includes present tense.

Also, her being a symbol of failure is mentioned as a factor behind Cloud closing himself off. Does Cloud stay closed off? No. How a person is perceived is not the same as a person's past. One can change; the other can't. ...Unless your story involves time travel.
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
"Cloud was her friend and beloved." is in CoLW :monster:
I thought you meant that
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Lilith spelled out a great point. One that seems lost on everyone else. When Aerith died the dynamic changed. Aerith's line is even in past tense. We can clearly see how Zacks death hits Cloud. Hell we still see him lamenting at the beginning of the movie. Are we to think he wasn't as important to Cloud because Aerith is the symbol of his failures? Was Zack less important to Aerith because Cloud is the living symbol of what she wants to protect?

I do agree that Aerith didn't see the real Cloud until after she died. (I don't believe the Maiden story is canon, but I do agree with that part of it. However, I don't use it to support my belief since I don't consider it canon, I kind of drew this conclusion on my own.) After all, Aerith still watches over Cloud, still communicates with him, and we don't need Maiden to figure that out. But when she was living, it's not like they didn't make a connection. They became close (in my opinion, not as lovers), and that's what led up to them being symbols towards one another. It makes no sense for Cloud and Aerith to be symbols of anything or hold any importance, without first becoming close because otherwise - why would they care about each other at all? O.O Aerith could clearly see that Cloud was not Zack, and saw a difference between them later in the game. She had a desire to know the real Cloud, and it's not like there weren't parts of him she didn't get through to. If she never impacted the real Cloud, then they'd not be connected in a different way than Cloud and Tifa ... at all. xD I never said anything about Zack being less important so...

For me Aerith and Zack are on the same level of affection in Cloud's heart. They were both close friends that had a huge impact on him, and he had to watch both of them die. Aerith might be a symbol of his failures, but he is holding all of Zack's hopes, dreams, aspirations within his body. "I said I'd live out both our lives... easy to make that promise"
Just because Aerith is a symbol of one thing, doesn't mean that his feelings for Zack are negated.... Zack is just a symbol of other things. Cloud isn't seeking Zack's forgiveness, only Aerith's. His guilt however, is related to many things, Zack included.
 
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