New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[I Am Not Me]

I know it's petty but...

http://never.hayalkarga.com/

As long as this is around, I'll make fun of rabid Cleriths all I want.

Sorry.

 

[Frostwave]

"Let go of the past, Tifa. Cloud's in flower country now."

BURN

hahaha and Cloud PMSing at the top. "What?" (likeOMGyersoannoying. get yer tits outta mah facehole)

purdy funny

 

[Celes Chere]

some Clerith fans are really batshit insane and offensive!!!!

SO IS ANY FAN OF ANYTHING! TRY GOING INTO THE SUPERNATURAL FANDOM! OR THE GLEE FANDOM! OR THE AVATAR FANDOM! OR THE BLEACH FANDOM! Anywhere you go, there are going to be crazies. =P Just learn to laugh at them. If you get offended by it, well you're kind of wasting your time and should just gtfo the fandom then.

 

[Splintered]

Supernatural has the worst second hand embarrassment fandom ever.

 

[Elisa Maza]

Try to get into the Gazette and generally the j-idols fandom.

SCARY.

 

[Dashell]

You know what I find really crazy, the fact that I've actually run into some fanatical Cleriths who don't just think that their pairing is canon but that it's inconceivable for Cloti to be canon.

You know what I find really crazy, the fact that I've actually run into some fanatical Cleriths who don't just think that their pairing is canon but that it's inconceivable for Cloti to be canon. Seriously I actually ran into one who said CloTi is a sick pairing that doesn't make any sense and they're more like brother and sister. She also then had the nerve to bash the Cloti fans by saying that anyone who ships Cloti is insane and off their rocker.

It's not just Cleriths dude, I've seen offensive Clotis around too. I remember one was talking about how Aerith was a slut for trying to steal Tifa's man and Tifa had every right to hate her... except Tifa does NOT hate her.

I'm guessing you've never talked to these people right? These "offensive" ones? What do they do that's so offensive besides say Clerith is canon?

wait so it's okay to draw completely over the top and exaggerated parallels to social issues because "some shippers are offensive"?

I agree it was a stupid response but people use over the top parallels on things all the time. It's not like Ryu was the first one and he won't be the last.

 

[Celes Chere]

Supernatural has the worst second hand embarrassment fandom ever.

It makes me sad. I didn't see a lot of it at first.
And then I saw the shipping wars start breaking out.
Can't talk to ANY fan it seems now without it being about gay brother sex.

Disappointing

Edit:
Seems this way with a lot of fandom. I mean, about ships. No one wants to talk about the actual plot and characters of FFVII. They want to talk about ships and it's just plain annoying. I want to talk to someone about the aspects of the game sometimes. And character developments. Not who Cloud wants to fuck. Not to say I have never ENJOYED shipping debates. But when that's all fans ever talk about anymore? Just stfu.

 

[Splintered]

Seems this way with a lot of fandom. I mean, about ships. No one wants to talk about the actual plot and characters of FFVII. They want to talk about ships and it's just plain annoying. I want to talk to someone about the aspects of the game sometimes. And character developments. Not who Cloud wants to fuck. Not to say I have never ENJOYED shipping debates. But when that's all fans ever talk about anymore? Just stfu.

I think some fans are willing to talk about other things. But pairing fandoms are just more die hard about it. They're also better organized, they tend to find ways to boost activity, and more regularly participate in fandom. So they last longer. This problem is worsened if there's a love rival because it gives them an enemy to "defeat."

I don't mind it so much as it stays where it needs to be. I like the LTD thread. But I also hate LTD bleeding into games where it doesn't belong. Or when it bleeds into character debates. A lot of, "is Tifa a good character" often boils down to, CxT!!!111 which is partly fault by design because Tifa's character dependence, but it would be nice to see an actual conversation that doesn't rely on the power of her vagina.

It makes me sad. I didn't see a lot of it at first.
And then I saw the shipping wars start breaking out.
Can't talk to ANY fan it seems now without it being about gay brother sex.

Disappointing

When I first came into the fandom, I thought the guy, Jensen and whathisfaceSam's actor where actually in a relationship because the way the fans acted.

And then I realized they were not. But the other fans were completely serious about it. I've seen people talk about how the actors have a secret gay relationship, that they are only getting married to their beards to hide their gay love, and that Jensen broke the other guy's heart. And none of this was said sarcastically.

I left Supernatural fandom shortly after I found one of the fans went to one of the actor's girlfriend and told her to leave because she was ruining the mood of the convention.

These fans are batshit. And even then I wouldn't relate them to religious fundamentalists.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

ty celes, winter and splintered, VOICES OF RAISIN.

people, they act crazy when it comes to shit they love. whether it be characters, ships, or anything else.

But that's okay and they have their right to declare they married link on an astral plane or whatever bs so long as it doesn't effect their real life.

 

[Ryushikaze]

wow, so you think that people who blatantly ignore scientific fact are just as bad as people who hold an invalid opinion on a game?

I have no fucking words except: sweet FSM you sir are nuckin' futs.

No. Not at all. At this point I must conclude you are willfully misunderstanding the issue since I have stressed many times that they are not on the same level.
If we boil it down to simple 'ignores facts in favor of what they believe,' then sure, they're 'just as bad' but so are 'Trek is what our future will be like' and moon landing deniers.

it's like this shit is the new '______ is like those mean girls in high school'/'_____ are acting just like hitler and the jews'

it's tiring, inane, and is pretty much ad hominem attacking anyone who would dare think clerith against cloti canon.

It's not an Ad Hominem if it's true, and not used in place of an argument.

This, too:

I don't think that comparison should've been used, though. Coz it's just asking for trouble.

True enough, given the many different ways people seem to have taken umbrage to it.

Its a ridiculous point to make because retarded hyperboles undermine rational thought/discussion.

But it's not a hyperbole.

It's the same reason it's not a good idea to compare a really harsh authority figure to Hitler. Or why rape jokes are, more often than not, offensive and unfunny. It doesn't serve any better towards your point. It just makes you look a dick and/or buttmad.

When the fuck did creationists turn into a taboo subject of comparison?
In any case, going back to the original reason I used creationists as a comparison alongside fanatic trekkies who think our future will resemble the show was because we were discussing Tana's board invasions and creationists are a group with crazy beliefs who have their own sanctuary, saying that even in the situation where it actually matters, I wouldn't advocate invasion, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade a spade.

wait so it's okay to draw completely over the top and exaggerated parallels to social issues because "some shippers are offensive"?

i don't even get what you're trying to say here

Over the top and exaggerated parallels? Exactly one, maybe one and a half parallels have been drawn, and that's 'Creationists ignore and distort evidence with the end goal of validating their beliefs, as do Cleriths who still actively argue that Clerith is canon' along with 'Invading either would be a massively dick thing to do, but calling them on their bullshit is A-Ok'

Replace 'Creationists' in my last paragraph with Moon Landing deniers or hollow earthers or Time cube guy, same shit, different day, they just don't have any sanctuaries to speak of.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

ryu, you are basically saying 'people who ship clerith are essentially CRAZY in some way or another' even if you are saying it's a milder case of crazy or whatever.

fuck, and you say people don't post here cause they're too busy being 'holed up' in the forums? no, i just generally assume most people don't go to places to actively be insulted. :\

 

[Roger]

I think some fans are willing to talk about other things. But pairing fandoms are just more die hard about it. They're also better organized, they tend to find ways to boost activity, and more regularly participate in fandom. So they last longer. This problem is worsened if there's a love rival because it gives them an enemy to "defeat."

I don't mind it so much as it stays where it needs to be. I like the LTD thread. But I also hate LTD bleeding into games where it doesn't belong. Or when it bleeds into character debates. A lot of, "is Tifa a good character" often boils down to, CxT!!!111 which is partly fault by design because Tifa's character dependence, but it would be nice to see an actual conversation that doesn't rely on the power of her vagina.
When I first came into the fandom, I thought the guy, Jensen and whathisfaceSam's actor where actually in a relationship because the way the fans acted.

And then I realized they were not. But the other fans were completely serious about it. I've seen people talk about how the actors have a secret gay relationship, that they are only getting married to their beards to hide their gay love, and that Jensen broke the other guy's heart. And none of this was said sarcastically.

I left Supernatural fandom shortly after I found one of the fans went to one of the actor's girlfriend and told her to leave because she was ruining the mood of the convention.

Would that be Fake Ruby?

 

[Splintered]

Would that be Fake Ruby?

idk. I think it was the Jensen's gf, but I remember hearing Fake!Ruby getting shit on too. Although, I never liked her as an actress anyway. But she can bone Sam if she wants too (Jaden is his name?)

I only remember because it was the biggest fandom facepalm of all time. Oh man, I wish I could remember the lj community that hardcore believes that these two are secretly in love. It was a hilarious read sometimes when I wasn't completely scared by all the goings on.

 

[Ryushikaze]

ryu, you are basically saying 'people who ship clerith are essentially CRAZY in some way or another' even if you are saying it's a milder case of crazy or whatever.

No, I'm saying people who assert that it is CANON are letting their desire for their belief to be validated get in the way of their rational thought. Shippers and Pinkers are not the same.

fuck, and you say people don't post here cause they're too busy being 'holed up' in the forums? no, i just generally assume most people don't go to places to actively be insulted. :\

I say that the Pinkers who still assert that the pairing is canon, the people who've been in this sheband since the beginning, the people who own and run CxA forums are 'holed up' in their forum, but then again, I've had years and years to understand the mindset of those particular people. I presume the vast majority of other shippers honestly don't give a fuck, or don't know about this thread. I don't even presume to speak for the entire CxA forum, just a select few.

And you'd be damn surprised about people going places to be actively insulted. There's a Trek v Wars board I belong to which still gets a fair influx of pro-trek vs debaters, despite the again overwhelming discrepancy between the sides and the board policy where tossing an insult in along with your argument isn't just allowed, it's nearly expected.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

ryu, you are basically saying 'people who ship clerith are essentially CRAZY in some way or another' even if you are saying it's a milder case of crazy or whatever.

Against my better judgement, I'm going to comment on all this.

I don't think that what you've taken from his posts is what he's been saying. His language seemed to draw a distinct line between those who ship Clerith in general and those who he was using in the creationist analogy.

I also thought the creationism analogy got taken out of context since he wasn't talking about the value of anything either group in the comparison was distorting (this seems to be where folks are getting upset with him), but was more pointing out the similarities in the pathways to reasoning employed by both -- that is to say, how they go about rationalizing their position whenever they encounter cognitive dissonance.

Of course, this whole dispute about those people is fucking retarded and the laughability of their behavior really invites its own ridicule without the need for it to be brought up so much here.

Which, I think, is probably where the real value of the difference between creationists and those who ship while insane comes to light.

Given the actual ongoing social relevance in calling out the behavior of religious fundamentalists who distort the truth and block out any evidence that they're wrong as they proselytize and seek to force change on others' lives, it doesn't seem as silly to bring up their socially destructive behavior at most every opportunity. They're actually harming people.

Of course, many of the aggressive atheists who argue with them can be terribly annoying too, but that's beside the point.

The point is, since one group's behavior does matter more in how it affects us all, I can see why it's off-putting to "circle jerk" so much about the less relevant group getting faced. The feeling I have about that group is that as long as they stay holed up, I don't really give a fuck about them anymore.

If they step out to ask people if they've heard the good news, so to speak, then I'll say something. And that's simply on the grounds of taking issue with the spread of misinformation. And because I'm a geek.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

maybe i have not been going to the right forums, but i generally don't see CxA members running into 4chan and somethingawful and preaching the good news about how clerith jesus died for your sins

 

[Dashell]

maybe i have not been going to the right forums, but i generally don't see CxA members running into 4chan and somethingawful and preaching the good news about how clerith jesus died for your sins

Nice shift of goalpost thar.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Nice shift of goalpost thar.

well

how often do you hear random people go 'OH LOOK AT THE LIGHT OF THIS WONDERFUL BLAH PAIRING'

cause i... really never do.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Um, I'm just wondering, what's this argument about again? About who's the eviler of the shipping fandom?

I say it's the Clotis. Dudes are already firm in their ship, yet they still poke fun at the poor Cleriths. Let them have their peace. No need to kick them while they're down.












Meanwhile, the Clacks will continue preaching the Blue Light of Canon. And succeed.

maybe i have not been going to the right forums, but i generally don't see CxA members running into 4chan and somethingawful and preaching the good news about how clerith jesus died for your sins

Try youtube. Find a video with Cloti in it. Look at the comments. Hello.

 

[Dashell]

how often do you hear random people go 'OH LOOK AT THE LIGHT OF THIS WONDERFUL BLAH PAIRING'

Does it only count if they say it like that? What if they're going to other places saying Clerith is canon but not talking about the light or what not?

Like I said, nice shift of goalpost. When pointed out that it's not shippers that Ryu was talking about (which you only need to be told about 25 times), you brought up a new group entirely. Before it was "they're not crazy to ship Clerith" (which no one was arguing in the first place) now it's apparently about preaching it to other people. I wonder now, if I show you other places where people say Clerith is canon will your goalpost shift again? Will it be "Like I said they aren't saying stuff about the light and blah blah so it doesn't count."

Shift of goalpost...
and FYI I've seen plenty of people say Clerith is canon outside the CxA forums. Have you met my friend Cali?

Try youtube. Find a video with Cloti in it. Look at the comments. Hello.

Deviantart is another one.

EDIT
and livejournal now that I'm thinking about it.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Does it only count if they say it like that? What if they're going to other places saying Clerith is canon but not talking about the light or what not?

Like I said, nice shift of goalpost. When pointed out that it's not shippers that Ryu was talking about (about 25 times), you brought up a new group entirely. One you know doesn't exist (because who talks like that?) so that you could still be right in some sense.

Shift of goalpost...

because, uh, i have to be obsessed with ryu all of the time and not responding to the post that tres just made

i mean that is fucking retarded who would think that.

i still think it's incredibly rude to say 'cleriths are like blah ignorant group' but i know that's an unpopular opinion because if we don't make fun of cleriths, gosh, what can we talk about?

Try youtube. Find a video with Cloti in it. Look at the comments. Hello.

uh, i am generally pretty put off by amvs because i have seen all the footage twenty million times.

people who post comments on youtube are also not people. they are all bots

all of them.

besides that, unlike fundies, you actually have to try looking for clerith shippers. hell, i can walk down the street and hear someone bitching about how i am sinning and need the light of jegus. shippers generally don't declare their pairing SUPAH CANON unless provoked

 

[Dashell]

because, uh, i have to be obsessed with ryu all of the time and not responding to the post that tres just made

i mean that is fucking retarded who would think that.

...

Okay let's back up here. (first off sorry I edited my post when you were responding) Did I say anything like that? I don't believe I did. I don't believe Tres said anything about the people talking about the light of their ship either. That was one you brought up. He mentioned the spread of misinformation and you exaggerated that avoiding his point entirely.

Like how you're avoiding mine.

These Cleriths on youtube, deviant art and livejournal who tell people Clerith is canon. Do they count or not?

i still think it's incredibly rude to say 'cleriths are like blah ignorant group' but i know that's an unpopular opinion because if we don't make fun of cleriths, gosh, what can we talk about?

Welcome to the LTD. Is it different when they say that about Clotis on CxA? Or is it just us that bother you?

 

[I Am Not Me]

uh, i am generally pretty put off by amvs because i have seen all the footage twenty million times.

people who post comments on youtube are also not people. they are all bots

all of them.

besides that, unlike fundies, you actually have to try looking for clerith shippers. hell, i can walk down the street and hear someone bitching about how i am sinning and need the light of jegus. shippers generally don't declare their pairing SUPAH CANON unless provoked

Not even AMVs. Try official cutscenes. Clerith-bots will come there and post about how they dislike Cloti and how this scene and video is not Cloti, or that it has something to do with Aerith or that it somehow proves that Clerith is canon even though the video does not have a hint of Aerith in it.

Unprovoked.

Then again, they're bots just like everyone on youtube... so that explains it.

If I had a youtube account, I would just respond to all of them with LOL. But I cba to make one.

i herd they also in livejournal, and most recently in the Cloti tumblr itself. I'd link, but I can't find the post anymore.

Again, unprovoked. SO IDK MAAAN





I think I'll make some Clack-bots for youtube now. brb

 

[Dashell]

besides that, unlike fundies, you actually have to try looking for clerith shippers. hell, i can walk down the street and hear someone bitching about how i am sinning and need the light of jegus. shippers generally don't declare their pairing SUPAH CANON unless provoked

Again, shift of goalpost.

Your comment before was that as long as they weren't preaching the light of their pairing, they weren't crazy.

how often do you hear random people go 'OH LOOK AT THE LIGHT OF THIS WONDERFUL BLAH PAIRING'

cause i... really never do.

Remember? Now that we've told you other people DO actually do this (in different words of course because who talks like that?) you've implied that it's okay for them to do so because you have to search for and/or provoke them. Or is it NOT okay for them to do so? I'm still unclear on that.

So do you think anyone would find Ryu or Tres' posts if they didn't search? Would searching fall along the same lines as clicking an LTD related thread?

Also, I don't know where you live but I don't have people preaching the light of Jesus on the street here.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

...

Okay let's back up here. (first off sorry I edited my post when you were responding) Did I say anything like that? I don't believe I did. I don't believe Tres said anything about the people talking about the light of their ship either. That was one you brought up. He mentioned the spread of misinformation and you exaggerated that avoiding his point entirely.

Like how you're avoiding mine.

These Cleriths on youtube, deviant art and livejournal who tell people Clerith is canon. Do they count or not?

he mentioned how we talk because cleriths directly effect us. I'm not seeing that I guess. I go about my daily life with the knowledge cloti is canon and I am content with this, and I don't see anyone openly challenging this viewpoint. If I went out to look for it, sure, I would meet people who disagree with this.

But I don't see people commenting on cloti arts that I or my friends have made saying that it's horrible and clerith is the true canon. When I go to ctlove on livejournal, sometimes I see a fic that I would disagree with it being classified as cloti, but no one argues with it being posted and no one posts about how they think cloti is fanon or whatever. Can't really comment on youtube cause as mentioned, I generally don't look at amvs.

Basically, I am sure if I really, truly looked hard to see people who were trying to say clerith is the one true pair on art and journal entries, I would find it. But I don't cause shockingly enough I don't enjoy arguing enough with people to try and search out people whom I disagree with.

Welcome to the LTD. Is it different when they say that about Clotis on CxA? Or is it just us that bother you?

Well, I don't go to CxA because I don't agree with them. I am sure if people were bashing Tifa or Aerith or my mother or what have you, I would get annoyed and tell them to shut that shit up. No matter what, it's completely stupid.

Also, I don't know where you live but I don't have people preaching the light of Jesus on the street here.

lol college campuses with free speech grounds are full of crazies