[Orphan's Cradle]THE ENDGAME: Final Dungeons of the Final Fantasy Series

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
This dungeon was honestly very very good. The music was a good match for the castle that was, as it's been said, old-school villany. That's probably what was interesting. A sorceress from the far away future... in a medieval castle? Not only out of place, but quite surprising as well. We are left to assume the original castle might have been from the past... but we're never told that, of course.

Good maze with bosses that, while optional, do help you get ready for the final battle. I found it very interesting, while not as good as VII's or IX's in general terms.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
In my multiple runs of FF8, I've beaten this dungeon many times. On the one hand, I love it- it's actually a house as well as a fortress, it's a place where your final boss could LIVE.

On the other, it's way too easy, due in no small part to VIII's limit system. I ran the entire boss gauntlet once without taking a single point of damage. I was at single digit HP. I battered my way through the first boss with a few invincibility potions, after that, I was ALWAYS getting Invincible Moon.

On yet another hand, MORE WEIRDNESS. I want more stopped in time events, rooms where you can walk through past events in the game, and they could have REALLY played with this by having sudden visual quirks in those scenes originally and only now, at the end, would you understand what the hell they were.
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
AKA
Gems
@ Forcestealer: Actually did not see that about the FFVI reference my attention at the time got drawn to your screenshot of the stats and the line underneath, my sincerest apologies :).
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
No problem.

I'm not sure why I was in such a sardonic mood when I wrote that. But its toned town significantly on the front page :monster:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I think the Final Dungeon really takes place starting with Time Compression at the beginning of Disk 4. There, you really do fly through a bunch of familiar locales as they melt away. There's a string of about six boss battles in all the towns of FFVIII, and that is a lot like FFV's rift. I was satisfied when I got to Ulty's Castle that I had been through a crap load of time-fuck adventures.

QFT.



Nice write-up, Force. I've really enjoyed this article series, though I'm really, really looking forward to what you have to say about FFX's final dungeon.

As much as I love that game -- and despite my opinion that it is the best FF overall -- it does have one of the most underwhelming final dungeons, surpassed not long after by FFX-2, with that one then supplanted by FFXII. I'm very interested in what you're going to say.

Slightly off-topic, though: What did you think of the Black Omen from Chrono Trigger? That was a proper final dungeon if I've ever been through one. Fucking misery in motion that was.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I'm really, really looking forward to what you have to say about FFX's final dungeon.

As much as I love that game -- and despite my opinion that it is the best FF overall -- it does have one of the most underwhelming final dungeons

You know, it must have been underwhelming. Because as I was planning out the series and thinking of basic points for each dungeon, I can't remember a damn thing about Sin. Not one! And I've played the game twice! I couldn't figure out why I couldn't remember it, I don't even remember what Seymour's last form looks like. And now that you say that, it must be the only explanation, lol. I'm gonna have to load an old save and playthrough that dungeon before writing that entry.

Slightly off-topic, though: What did you think of the Black Omen from Chrono Trigger? That was a proper final dungeon if I've ever been through one. Fucking misery in motion that was.

...You're all gonna take away my gamer card...but I haven't actually seen it:( I know, I know...for some reason, I have never gotten around to finishing Chrono Trigger. I've tried, I've seen the first half of that game at least 3 times, seen the opening at least half a dozen, but something always distracts me, without fail. But I'll get on that, I promise.
 
I found Ultimecia's Castle boring. Immensely. Boring. Not the first time around; the first time it felt like the first and only good eye candy in the entire game. But in every subsequent playthrough since then, it bores me.
Not sure why. The loading time for one screen to the next feels like forever. =/

...You're all gonna take away my gamer card...but I haven't actually seen it:(

It...it feels like I don't know you anymore. :(
*runs away in despair*
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Final Fantasy IX: Memoria and the Crystal Word

324px-MemoriaCastle.JPG


Kuja, already miffed that Zidane was to be his replacement, lost all rational thought upon learning he would die. Like the petulant, spoiled child he is, he's decided that he's going to destroy the source of life. That'll kill everyone including himself, and thus the world will not have to endure going on without him. What a guy.

9kuja-s%5B2%5D.jpg

"Why should the world exist without my fabulous fashion sense? That wouldn't be fair."

Despite Final Fantasy IX being a wank an homage to the eight games before it, its final dungeon is unique in a couple ways. First, most dungeons sit innocuously until the overlevelled and ridiculously equipped party barrels into it, lacking any real fanfare apart from badass music. This still waits for you of course, but it has a fantastic lead-in with hundreds if not thousands of silver dragons taking flight to guard the portal above the Iifa tree. All the secondary characters arrive in previously seen or used airships and Lindblum's fleet to clear a path for the Invincible. This is all the buildup this final area gets, as you have no idea where you're going. It certainly got me fired up though.

The second unique thing about Memoria, in particular, is the amount of plot taking place there. There aren't so much elaborate cutscenes or anything, but a lot of exposition is encountered as you make your way through. The fact that the world is composed of the party's memories allow for character development long after other FF games have finished with that stuff. You'll usually get some choice words from the villain, maybe learn some ulterior motive to his or her plan, but that's about it.

This dungeon is pretty, by the way. There are some amazing backgrounds, such a Memoria literally being constructed as you approach it to walking through space, to the violent backgrounds appearing in the Crystal World. Some backgrounds involve the creation of Gaia and Terra, at one point you walk into the eye of the Invincible over Madain Sari, and one segment even has the 'memory' of the Eidolon showdown in Alexandria in the background.

Memoria_twin_moons.png

:O

Despite the mindbending locations you walk through, it is a straightforward dungeon without any attempts to show the entire party being used, half-hearted or otherwise. Also gone are Final Fantasy VIII's puzzles. You simply plow through Iron Giants and Behemoths while listening to Garland Explains It All. Naturally, any good homage to the FFs of yore would have a boss gauntlet. True to form, its just as unimaginative as its forebears. You merely fight the four fiends again as I have done several times now through this retrospective. Again, this is supposed to reference the old ones, so it doesn't bother me too much. What does bother is that once you get to the Crystal World, the only random encounters are crystal copies of these same fiends again. Fortunately, they are vulnerable to Petrify, but they couldn't have drawn up a few more monsters?

Memoria_Crystal_World.JPG

The last crystalline final dungeon was four games ago, miss it?

It can be pretty tough, some of the fiends may surprise you (since you merely run into them without warning) and get the best of you and punish your unpreparedness. A loss should teach you what you need to know to beat them, however. The last boss before the ending battles will sometimes open with Meteor which may get to the point that you need to simply restart until your luck improves, as it can cripple you.

Clearly after Final Fantasy VII's unbelievably awesome final dungeon theme, they did not try to top themselves with rousing scores, as Final Fantasy IX features more of the ominous, unsettling style. Once again it does fit the trippy scenery with Memoria featuring a song that I find very reminiscent of Can You Hear the Cry of the Planet from FF7's Forgotten City and the return of the crystal dungeon is heralded, appropriately, with a remix of the Prelude, perverted by Kuja's intentions.

Take on this satisfying dungeon (another of my personal favorites) and restore the serenity of the crystal song, take Kuja out, save him from himself if you can, and prepare for one of the longest endings in the series.

Next up, we'll be solving the world's troubles from the inside out!
 
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Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
One of my personal favorites, again! Probably for aesthetic reasons. I love the way it looks! The song fits the place perfectly, and the tension seems to grow after each room you walk through. In the end, Crystal World is of course the perfect place to start the end of a Final Fantasy game...right?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I love Memoria. It's the sort of head trip 5 and 8 needed. And I do love how the optional Boss is also a vendor.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Nomura makes some androgynous dudes, but he's never made anyone that far. Even ignoring his clothes, and that he only covers his chest and his crotch - look at those hips! I thought about captioning that saying he not only looks like a woman but thinks like one. But I figured that would be in poor taste :P. I like Kuja, by the way, his design is just always amusing.

What do you guys think about where Memoria came from? What is it? Its a world created by their memories, sure, so does that mean it didn't exist until you arrive? How did Kuja get to the Crystal World and what is that?

I imagine it has something to do with the Iifa tree, given its location. Perhaps the concentration of souls - especially after what happened on Terra - and the process of Terra's and Gaia's fusion created the portal, but would Memoria be different for any who entered it? And why was Garland omnipresent there?
 

Zee

wangxian married
AKA
Zee
Final Fantasy IX is still delicious eye candy. <3

Also re:kuja he's ridiculously girly but he's actually the only character with a legitimate excuse (if you will) for the androgyny.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
That's very true, but he may well be past the point of 'androgyny'. If they never used a pronoun for him and always just used his name, what gender would you assume he was? :monster:
 

Zee

wangxian married
AKA
Zee
I feel like my answer will be bias because I was so into Jrock for two years and I've seen worse. :sadpanda:
 

Tifabelle

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
The first time I played I really did think he was a girl. It wasn't until later in the game that I picked up on him being called a "he". I was like, "WTF is this?" This happened at a critical point in my life called teenagedom. As you can imagine, it has fucked me up royally.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
On a completely selfish note - I remember constructing that long pan of Memoria from like, half a dozen screenshots, pausing the vid, screencapping it and copying and pasting it all together. Man that was a fun hour or two. ><
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Really? That's awesome. Thanks! I was trying to figure out where the picture came from, but I just assumed you could pull it from the game files if it was rendering the whole thing and just didn't show it all at once. The Wiki has been a great help in this whole series. :monster:
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Really? That's awesome. Thanks! I was trying to figure out where the picture came from, but I just assumed you could pull it from the game files if it was rendering the whole thing and just didn't show it all at once. The Wiki has been a great help in this whole series. :monster:

Glad we could be of help. :monster: Ya look at the past revisions of that image and you can see the process of making it.
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
AKA
Gems
Nice review, FFIX is probably on a par with FFIV as my favourite game in the series :) I too assumed Kuja was a girl, heck even Brahne calls him one before their showdown.

One of the interesting aspects about this final dungeon I found also is that you have to reach Memoria and Lich with less than 12 hours of gameplay in order to get Exalibur II. Its probably one of the most challenging aspects of FFIX and something I've never tried myself. I loved memoria, visually its my favourite, the music while ominous makes you feel its the calm before the storm and then like Forcestealer said there's still a decent bit of plot and character development present.

As for Memoria being created, my theory is that because Memoria is made up of Gaia's memories and Ireckon to some extent Terra's as well and the fact that the crystal connects to all forms of life, it had something to do with all the souls from Gaia that went through the Iifa tree to get to Terra. With Terra destroyed they were dispersed back into the tree all also throughout Gaia hence the mist covering the entire world.

The Iifa tree being the strongest point from the Mist emerging containing the souls and memories of those from Gaia and Terra gathered together creating Memoria and at the heart of the place where Gaia's and Terra's souls and memories are was the place where all life is created, AKA the crystal . If Terra hadn't been destroyed, I don't think Memoria would ever have been able to be created. Kuja probably realised himself what Memoria was and was able to get to the crystal or somehow found someway to make memoria into the Form it is. Of course this is just my theory of it, I could just be talking bullshit :monster:

As for Garland being a presence there and again just a theory maybe its because with him being responsible for trying to finish the mergence of Gaia and Terra, his own soul ended up in the place created out of the souls and memories of Terra and Gaia and because he created Zidane its probably the reason why he is able to explain parts of Memoria and only Zidane can hear him, their souls are probably connected, in the same way that Kuja and Mikoto both seem to have a telepathic link with him too.
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
ForceStealer said:
What do you guys think about where Memoria came from? What is it? Its a world created by their memories, sure, so does that mean it didn't exist until you arrive? How did Kuja get to the Crystal World and what is that?

I imagine it has something to do with the Iifa tree, given its location. Perhaps the concentration of souls - especially after what happened on Terra - and the process of Terra's and Gaia's fusion created the portal, but would Memoria be different for any who entered it? And why was Garland omnipresent there?

Nothing from Mako or Tres? Really? Isn't this game your baby, Mako?

A lot of those idea make sense, Monochrome. It still seems mighty convenient for Garlands soul to end up there, but hey, stranger things have happened. As for the creation of Memoria, that does kinda make sense, but doesn't necessarily explain why it would display these character's memories. They weren't dead or from Terra. Unless Memoria is like some kind of mirror.
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
AKA
Gems
Garland mentions about the characters memories being created within Memoria because Gaia itself also has them or something to that degree that's how I was able to base my theory on how Memoria was created, it would also explain why Zidane is able to see Garnet's memory of what happened to Madain Sari when she was a child. I'm gonna try and find the exact words Garland uses to explain how Zidane can see Garnet's memories. I think it also explains how the memories in Memoria were formed.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Final Fantasy X: Inside Sin

Sin.jpg


Sin is the creature who has dominated Spira for 1000 years. It has claimed countless lives in random and meaningless attacks. Distraught by what Yuna and her guardians discovered about the truth of its defeat, they destroyed the only known way to defeat Sin for even a momentary reprieve. If you can't kill it, no one ever will, and you will have doomed the people of Spira.

So there's certainly gravity here. Our heroes save their world in every Final Fantasy, but Sin is a bit of a special case because you're saving them not from a new catastrophic threat, but one that has tormented them for ages. One that has already killed hundreds of thousands at least. The dungeon itself is not built up over the game, because, obviously, the heroes themselves don't really know what they plan to do. The weight of what you're going for however, is enough to get you anxious.

Final Fantasy X represented another huge leap forward, the graphics are far superior to IX and voice acting, for better or worse, had to come eventually. The presentation of this game was unlike any other in the franchise, and the lead-in dismantling Sin's outside, the airship blasting huge limbs off of Sin, and the final approach pictured above are all spectacular. It was one hell of an introduction to the PS2.

Unfortunately, that makes this dungeon that much more of a letdown. When I was planning out this retrospective, I came up with some points for each dungeon and I could not for the life of me remember anything about Sin's innards. I didn't think that bode well for it and I was right. This is an unremarkable dungeon in nearly every sense.

Honestly, I have no idea what the inside of Sin should look like. I guess I thought it would look like the inside of a whale, but I could see it being anything given Sin's magical nature. At least two dungeons have already squandered huge potential in the interest of doing just another castle, so I could see the inside of Sin being a recreation of Yu Yevon's Zanarkand palace, if indeed he had one. But this

792px-Sea_of_sorrow.png

is not gonna cut it.

Walking on nothingness? Those runes only appear every so often, most of the time you are walking on nothing... Now dungeons have done little segments of this before, FF9 had you walking through space briefly, but not a significant portion of the dungeon. With all the effort that went into this game, I doubt this was the result of laziness, but its how it comes off. After the midway boss, the scenery changes, but just to a bland...city? I guess it is.

FFX_Inside_Sin_City_of_Dying_Dreams.PNG


What is it anyway? Is it a city that Sin ate? Or is it just conjured? In either case that solidifies that this dungeon could have been anything. How do they come off the mind trip of Memoria and make this? Swimming away from that giant fish in the beginning was more interesting.

It is pretty difficult, even for a high level party. In all likelihood you will be healing after every battle (Behemoths use Meteor as a final attack every time). And that means you will be healing a lot because this dungeon has a ridiculously high encounter rate. It borders on NES FFs levels of annoyingly frequent battles. I suppose that makes the dungeon more difficult but damn.

There is no boss gauntlet either, we wouldn't want anything resembling a diversion, after all. Between the two areas you will face Seymour and FINALLY kill him.

sending.jpg

ABOUT DAMN TIME

There is technically a gauntlet at the end, but its entirely for story purposes and doesn't add anything to difficulty.

After the city segment, a tower drops from the...sky...and hurray! We'll be going somewhere different? What's in the tower? Will it be like in the Rift, when walking through a door you come out somewhere else entirely? Would it be like Memoria, where you climb up to the Invincible just to appear on the edge of existence?

Nope. It takes you to a single room containing the most inane time wasting device I've ever seen. It's a boring circular area with crystals stabbing out of the floor. If one hits you, you fight a battle. Occasionally easter eggs materialize and you have to grab them. Once you get ten, you are transported to the final battle. It is every bit as stupid as it sounds, trust me.

The music is serviceable, it's driving beat is filled with tension. Tension that would be great if the scenery ever amounted to anything. The song is very simple, mostly a drum beat, and that would be fine if it went somewhere eventually. Such as other dungeons in which the music increases in excitement or ominous tones. It doesn't here, and even if it did you barely get to hear the song because you're running into near-constant battles! The music during the closing requisite "story battle" is very epic though, so hold out for that.

Final Fantasy X is not a bad game, it is unfortunate that there is next to nothing positive to say about its endgame. It is amazing to me that the series went from the unbelievable scenery in the Northern Crater, Ultimecia's Castle, and Memoria to this exceptionally bland dungeon.

Bear with it though if you enjoyed this story, and your patience will be rewarded with one of, if not the, most poignant endings in all of Final Fantasy.

In a few days we will actually be remaining in Spira, it'll get a second chance to impress.
 
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