[Orphan's Cradle]THE ENDGAME: Final Dungeons of the Final Fantasy Series

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Good write up!

To take control of the Sun-Cryst would give Ashe the power to fight the Empire, but there's already talk of a war between Archadia and Rozzaria, and at this point a war of such magnitude could destroy Dalmasca. The previously determined Ashe is only now doubting if her quest for revenge is what she really wants, since it seems it will come at the cost of the country she loves.

I always figured that Ashe's reservations about using the Sun Cryst was less about Dalmasca (which was still important of course), and more about the moral implications of using a weapon of mass destruction to completely annihilate an antagonistic nation and everyone in it because of revenge/powerlust.

The player is already told (and shown, if he so chooses) to see the results of what nethicite can do with the example of Nabidus, and I always figured the moral dilemma of Ashe is whether doing the same to Arcadia because she has beef with them is really the right thing to do.
 

Super Mario

IT'S A ME!
AKA
Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
I amdire your confusion. I understand, my fdriend. Let me tell you who is the aller strong and big:





ITS CHAOS!



I MEAN SERIOUSLT HE'S HARD TO KILL EVEN IN THE HARDEST MODES IN DISSIDIA! SEPH OR EXDEATH AINT GOT NOTHING ON HIM DRAKE. TRUST ME BRO.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Ah, it's just a troll. Silly me, I should have clued in with the original "aller"

EDIT - on-topic, this is one of my fav FF mythology references. In addition to those three bosses above, in the Pharos' basement Subterra you fight a fourth boss, Phoenix, then fight the Shadowseer mark who summons all four bosses as minions to fight for it.

The four bosses that Shadowseer summons are references to the Sì Xiàng, four mythical Chinese beasts that correspond to the four directions of the compass. Pandaemonium refers to the Black Tortoise of the North, Slyt refers to the Azure Dragon of the East, Fenrir refers to the White Tiger of the West, and Phoenix refers to the Vermilion Bird of the South. Though Slyt is a fish, it's bestiary entry mentions that the people of the east call it the "Blue Wyrm".
 
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Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I remember the Pharos very well. Mainly because I just finished FFXII in February this year. :wacky:
Man, that shit was massive. It seemed like it went on forever. Definitely worthy to be called a final dungeon even though...it isn't. But hell, it was the last main story challenge before the big bad. The Bahamut wasn't much of anything.

Though I guess it'll still be included in this thread...? :huh:
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Nah, I might just throw a paragraph about the Bahamut on the end on the front page, treat it like The Crystal World - which is basically what it is.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Eh - Of course, I'm not watching these threads 100%, but - I thought the Bahamut would have been the final Dungeon of XII. It's not very expansive, and primarily is a place for the game to end, but still... The Feywood, Geruvegan and the Pharos Lighthouse seem to be long puzzles to get to the final dungeon. Most of this is my opinion, of course.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I originally said Bahamut, but deferred to people that had actually beaten the game. But from the sounds of it, XII just doesn't have a very clear final dungeon. The Bahamut just sounds like it takes you to the final battle and doesn't incorporate any of the elements that previous final dungeons have had and so it might be like only taking The Crystal World from IX.

Apparently omitting the Crystal Tower in FFIII was a mistake as well, but I'm not going back now :P And Orphan's Cradle also isn't really fair so I think I'm going to include the entire raid on Eden.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
I originally said Bahamut, but deferred to people that had actually beaten the game. But from the sounds of it, XII just doesn't have a very clear final dungeon. The Bahamut just sounds like it takes you to the final battle and doesn't incorporate any of the elements that previous final dungeons have had.

It doesn't. Even World Darkness was a larger dungeon than the Bahamut. You literally just walk to an elevator, which takes a few minutes unless you stop to fight, and when you get there boom, final boss rush.
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
AKA
Gems
I never finished XII myself, I got bored of it and if truth be told it just didn't gel with me the same way previous FFs did and I don't like the sound of that final dungeon either.
 
I've never played FFXII, nor do I plan to, but the dialogue and voice acting in those cutscenes tickle my brain. In a good way. Definitely sets the game apart from anything else I've encountered in the gaming world.
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
AKA
Gems
The dialogue, VA and even the story weren't bad at all but it was the battle system and the way battles happened that I didn't like and I got bored of fighting and constantly getting defeated by some bosses that actually seemed ridiculously hard in the early stages of the game.
 

Cannon_Fodder

Pro Adventurer
First off, good write-up Drake!

Second, I agree that XII needs more than just Bahamut because that level sucked it was too short, but does XIII really need Eden too? I've never considered it part of the final dungeon, it's an entire chapter all on it's own. Orhpan's Cradle isn't that short, at least I don't think so. Took me longer than Inside Sin, that's for sure. Inlcuding Eden seems to me like including Zanarkand as well as Inside Sin...
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I'm gonna play through it again to refresh my memories but Orphan's Cradle kinda lacks...everything the other dungeons have had. For one thing its only a single room that changes orientation a few times (which was actually kinda cool). But there are no bosses, no puzzles, not even any other kind of random encounter. Its just Cie'th.

It strikes me as the crystalline area at the end of the Moon and the Rift. They are technically the final area, but not the final dungeon. Another unwritten criteria has kind of been that it's not particularly easy to back out once you enter (even if it can be done, and I know some games didn't follow that at all). You can't leave Eden unless you go the whole way through to the Cradle, so that could label it as one dungeon.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
The only thing I remember about Cradle is that it was an awesome place to grind.

And unless you were at post game missioning, it had some interesting enemies to battle. It was cool looking, kinda simple, but sometimes the design gave me a headache because iirc, it was constantly moving.
 

Cannon_Fodder

Pro Adventurer
I'm gonna play through it again to refresh my memories but Orphan's Cradle kinda lacks...everything the other dungeons have had. For one thing its only a single room that changes orientation a few times (which was actually kinda cool). But there are no bosses, no puzzles, not even any other kind of random encounter. Its just Cie'th.

It strikes me as the crystalline area at the end of the Moon and the Rift. They are technically the final area, but not the final dungeon. Another unwritten criteria has kind of been that it's not particularly easy to back out once you enter (even if it can be done, and I know some games didn't follow that at all). You can't leave Eden unless you go the whole way through to the Cradle, so that could label it as one dungeon.

I can't easily replay it, but I looked at my strategy guide and there were three "boss" battles in Orphan's Cradle: Jabberwocky/Bandersnatch, Wladislaus, and Tiamat Eliminator. Maybe not the greatest bosses, but they were there. Also, I remember you had to organize platforms and such to carry on, which could constitute a shitty puzzle. Finally, there's a secret area you have to beat an Immortal to get by which has some pretty amazing accessories, so I just thought that might be relevant as well. And there is more than just Cieth, there are some robo-bike things and pimped out sahagins as well.

Obviously though, I'm just pointing this stuff out. I'd love to see a write up on Eden too :awesome:
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Good write up!



I always figured that Ashe's reservations about using the Sun Cryst was less about Dalmasca (which was still important of course), and more about the moral implications of using a weapon of mass destruction to completely annihilate an antagonistic nation and everyone in it because of revenge/powerlust.

The player is already told (and shown, if he so chooses) to see the results of what nethicite can do with the example of Nabidus, and I always figured the moral dilemma of Ashe is whether doing the same to Arcadia because she has beef with them is really the right thing to do.

I WROTE THIS FOR NOTHING SOMEBODY RESPOND SO I CAN FEEL VALIDATED
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
I WROTE THIS FOR NOTHING SOMEBODY RESPOND SO I CAN FEEL VALIDATED
Well, I always thought FF XII was a huge metaphor for the concept of mutually ensured destruction. I would think that anyone who is from Japan is especially sensitive on the topic of nuclear disarmament, plus it was released 2006 so the whole international mess of the United States war and the issues of weapons of mass destruction. Ashe's, and thus the entire plot's, entire dilemma was whether or not to jump on the arm's race bandwagon, but the great moral stopped her from doing so.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
All right, after replaying it, I’m in a bit of a quandary. Orphan’s Cradle is a bit longer than I remember, and including Eden would make it very long. So I just wrote up one for Orphan’s Cradle, and see what you guys think before posting it.

Final Fantasy XIII: Orphan’s Cradle

oc1o.jpg


After you fled Cocoon and your Focus, Barthandelus tracked you down, saying he had another plan to destroy Cocoon. Knowing that this IN NO WAY COULD BE A TRAP, your valiant party returned to Cocoon in spectacular fashion, even showing up the aerial assault on Sin in FFX. After storming through Eden in an intense, least-subtle-as-possible attack run, you arrive at the heart of Eden where Barthandelus has manipulated the Cavalry into going after Orphan, what he originally had in mind for you. So now you must head deep into the source of Cocoon’s power stop them, and kill Barthandelus.

103018732

Or at least cut his nails.

Heading to where Orphan resides is referred to for the better part of the game as the object of your Focus. The specific area was not built up, but despite the l’Cie’s best efforts, you have felt it creeping nearer and nearer. This is a rare occasion where the party is actually seeking not to head to the final dungeon for most of the game, at least until they fall for the obvious trap decide to go after the enemy.

One thing that is unquestionably unique about this dungeon is that just about the entire thing takes place in one room. A bizarre, trippy room for sure, but it is just a single area. But that isn’t quite as terrible as it sounds. As with many final areas you do appear to be teetering on the edge of existence, and this one does especially so with platforms zooming past you; sometimes the party hitches rides on the moving ones.

Its most interesting feature is that the Tesseracts, as the area is called, constantly rearranges itself to change where you go and how you get there.

From
oc2b.jpg

To
oc3n.jpg
For example.
A tesseract, incidently, is the four-dimensional version of a cube. Appropriate.

It makes for a pretty cool effect, and recreates that “lost” feeling you get in the Rift. Turn around and what was there isn’t any longer. Angelic fal’cie move you around through teleportation or reconfiguring the area. It is rather hard to say how you know that you are making progress, it feels like the room could just rearrange itself forever and you could never get anywhere which is unsettling.

Of course, Barthandelus wants you to get through so you’re welcome to take solace in that, I suppose. That doesn’t mean he’s going to prevent you from being harassed by enemies though. The Cavalry that served to lure you here (*SHOCKED*) have been turned into a new variety of Cie’th which shamble throughout the moving platforms. Final Fantasy XIII can be reasonably difficult and Orphan’s Cradle contains some of the most punishing combinations of enemies in the game. And since you are only able to level up so far before beating the final boss, they will always present a challenge. There is also a boss gauntlet consisting of three bosses all of which are very high powered and require a different strategy to conquer.

After forcing your way through you arrive at the Narthex before heading into the final battle. The graphics are of course very vivid and pretty the whole way through and the dramatic shift in scenery from the utterly chaotic Tesseracts to the jarringly serene Narthex can really enthrall you despite that there are only two areas. Unfortunately, the music will not. After peaking with Judgment Day, the series has descended to very ambient endgame tracks and it is not the better for it, in my opinion. It is ominous, I have decided while listening to the track on its own, but I honestly would not have been able to tell you that from playing the game, it is just white noise.

One thing I have learned writing this series is that final dungeons have a way of amplifying a game’s strengths and weaknesses. Nowhere is this more apparent than in Final Fantasy XIII. With the exception of the music (in an otherwise above average soundtrack), everything that people love and hate about XIII is on full display in Orphan’s Cradle. The graphics are very pretty, but there is minimal variety in the dungeon: only the bosses take place in different, cathedral-esque areas. At the same time, this endgame really capitalizes on the strategic nature of the game’s battle system and you must exhibit mastery to come out alive.

Go on, fight the old man, try to defy fate, and fight for what really matters.

For the final entry, I will write my closing thoughts about this series of dungeons. Also I’ll have a poll on the forums for people to vote for their favorites (I know Mako already did that but it was awhile ago and there new people here now so shut up!), so look out for that!
 
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Splintered

unsavory tart
Orphan played with your sense of perception more than anything else. It messed with my head when I was running in the opposite direction of wherever Cradle was moving, because it created the illusion that I wasn't moving anywhere.

Some of the fights there, at that time, were really fucking hard, but fun at the same time. But you were willing to risk it because the CP they gave you was an awesome reward.

They really took the orphan metaphor and ran with it too. Being the cradle in which Orphan was born/slept it. The fact that Orphan couldn't be awoken until you killed its parents (the merged for of Dysley and owl whatever). But for its namesake I didn't get the impression this thing was suppose to be a "cradle" visually. That said, it did look like a battery, which what Orphan essentially was.
 

Cannon_Fodder

Pro Adventurer
ForceStealer said:
Or at least cut his nails.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Great write up! I personally liked the music for what it was, but it certainly wasn't one of the better tracks. It fit the flying... things that went by though.
 

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
I'm scared.

The Bots have seemingly integrated into our very society, without our detection!


IT COULD BE ANY ONE OF US NEXT!
 

Ghost X

Moderator
I liked FFVII's final dungeon, especially first play through, because the music made me feel like I was on an epic journey to the centre of the planet. The scenery was interesting as well, and helped with the aforementioned feeling. There was also that section where you level up materia and stuff really fast.

FFVIII's final dungeon, liked the music again, and liked having to unlock abilities. Unfortunately I never realised the best way to finish the game was to level up as little as possible, so you could defeat the WEAPON in the castle and what not. Can't be bothered to buy it from PSN, so I guess I'll have to live with that regret for the rest of me life :P.

Don't have much of a memory of FFIX's final dungeon, though I recall liking the visuals. I think the crystal world was a bit lame-looking though.

FFX's final dungeon... I want my money back. Never played FFX-2, nor want to =P.

FFXII's Pharos (hohoho, double entendre) thingy was perhaps just a bit too long for my liking. Half way up the tower, I'm like "Okay, I got the idea already, can I finish now?". I guess it was slightly enjoyable though, especially the basement area. The bahamut ship thing was disappointingly short. They could've at least made it as interesting as Lunatic Pandora.

Never played FFXIII, nor want to =P.
 
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