[Orphan's Cradle]THE ENDGAME: Final Dungeons of the Final Fantasy Series

[Tetsujin]

I never got the whole deal with the crystal eggs you had to collect before the final battle.

...what were they thinking?

 

[Alex Strife]

Ah, but they were thinking?

It doesn't feel like a final dungeon, really. You'd expect something spectacular, because the whole game had looked very beautiful (even if the looks are not spectacular nowadays, Besaid still stands out as one of the locations that impressed me the first time I saw them). But all you get is exactly this, as Force said it, so bland dungeon. A pity, really, because there's nothing good to be said about the dungeon itself, even if the bosses are nice.

 

[Tifabelle]

I have to agree with the conclusion that as a final location, it was rather bland. The crystals were just dumb. It was all very straightforward as well, although I suppose that was intentional.

Jecht was an interesting battle, but Yu Yevon totally fails as a final boss. Both battles were fairly easy and so complete let downs in that sense. Even when fighting all the summons, it's unfortunately easy. IIRC, I just used the strongest summons to defeat them until the last one. As you pointed out, the gauntlet of random battles was arguably more difficult.

All in all while I loved this game, it did not live up to potential in this area. But who cares? The ending was totally worth it - one of very the best endings to a Final Fantasy game, if not the best.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

I just binged on your write-ups Force, well done! A very enjoyable read!

Also, I know it's not really part of the Inside Sin dungeon per se, but the Dream's End area where you fight Braska's Final Aeon is just about my favourite individual area in the whole series. Something about it, maybe the fact that it's Zanarkand freeze-framed in its destruction, makes it extremely memorable for me.

 

[Geostigma]

I too just read your whole thread, very nice work sir.
I cant wait to see what you do for FF12

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What do you guys think about where Memoria came from? What is it? Its a world created by their memories, sure, so does that mean it didn't exist until you arrive? How did Kuja get to the Crystal World and what is that?

Nothing from Mako or Tres? Really?

Sorry for the delay.

I think it was as simple as Kuja using his newfound powers to bring together souls from the Iifa Tree, and then magically creating a literal path from their memories that could be followed back in time. I can't really see anything more specific about the mechanics of it all being discernable.

That said, I do think that a few sections and oddities of Memoria would be unique to those traveling through it at a given moment. It does reflect individual memories early on, after all, before giving way to fully collective ones later.

I'm pretty sure he says Zidane can see it because he was there.

It was all part of the point that all life is interconnected, like one giant organism, and, thus, all shares the same memory:

Garland: "...Zidane, can you hear me? ...Zidane. What you just saw was from your memory, and not Garnet's."

Zidane: "What!? I don't remember ever being in a storm at sea."

Garland: "You still don't understand... You will find out soon enough..."

Zidane: "What do you mean? Can other people's memories become a part of my own? Garland!!!"

Garland: "Once you accept everything, the answer will appear before you.

Soon after:

Zidane: "So, Gaia used to be just one big ocean..."

Eiko: "How do you know?"

Zidane: "...I don't know. For some reason, it's in my memory. I wasn't even born at the time. It doesn't make any sense... And I was born on Terra, not Gaia, so how can it be in my memory...?"

Vivi: "...It's in my memory, too. Gaia used to be covered with water."

Freya: "I'm getting a similar feeling as well."

Zidane: (...Maybe that means all existence can be traced back to a single source. I don't understand...)

And soon after that:

Garland: "You have entered a new realm. There are no more worlds. There is no more space... Follow your memory, your original memory, and march forth..."

Zidane: "Garland, what exactly is our memory!?"

Garland: "........."

Zidane: "Why can I remember other people's experiences and events that happened before my time?"

Garland: "........."

Zidane: "Garland, please! Tell me!"

Garland: "...Do not limit memory to just one individual's experiences from birth. That is only the surface. Every life born into this world, whether natural or artificial, requires a parent. And that parent also requires a parent. Life is connected, one to another... If you trace the root of all life, there exists one source. The same can be said for memory. All life constitutes an intelligence that holds memory beyond experience. Memory is not isolated within individuals. It is an accumulation of generations of memories that continues to evolve. You can say that memory and evolution go hand in hand. But most life-forms do not understand the true nature of memories... ...which explains why most memories never cross paths."

 

[ForceStealer]

Ah, see I was taking that instance of him seeing Garnet's memory in a vacuum and thought they meant that Zidane was actually there at the destruction of Madain Sari and it was just part of all that other stuff about himself he has no recollection of

 

[ForceStealer]

Final Fantasy X-2: The Farplane

Shuyin, a man who really did exist in Zanarkand 1000 years ago, plans to awaken Vegnagun. Vegnagun is an ancient machina powerful enough to destroy the world, naturally, and it falls to the person largely responsible for saving Spira the last time to stop him. Why does he seek the destruction of the world? Is he mad with power? Is he going to claim the respect that is rightfully his? No, he died before getting the chance to bang his girlfriend, and now he's pissed. To be perfectly honest, that's a better reason than some villains have had.

This threat is distinctly different from Sin in that it is not one that everyone knows about and lives in fear of on a daily basis. Except for Yuna and her acquaintances, no one knows. So X-2 takes us back to thankless heroics, but given that Yuna already got those and fulfilled her supposed fantasy of being a jpop start, it doesn't seem that unfair.

The inside of Sin in Final Fantasy X disappointed, but unlike any other game in the franchise, it actually gets a second crack at the final dungeon. The Farplane is the destination of pyreflies(souls) after death. It is, for all intents and purposes, the Lifestream. Except it is an actual location with structure rather than a giant subterranean sea of goo.

How is this visit to the great beyond then?

All right, Thanks Yuna! Okay guys, come back in a few days when I'll be covering the Sky Fortress Baha-

...

Fine.

It's actually not that bad. It is certainly an improvement over Final Fantasy X's endgame, but only just. It is at least a whole dungeon this time, rather than walking on nothing for half of it. You climb down a criss-crossing set of slopes as in the concept art at the beginning of this post. There is some misdirection involved, take a wrong turn and end up further back and you have to go back down.

Furthermore, this dungeon even has a boss gauntlet! In fact, it can even be fairly difficult. Unfortunately, they just took the story gauntlet from X and made it a real one. You fight the remaining Dark Aeons. Ho hum. However, I shall forgive it because the battle system in this game is just so damn fun.

Incidentally, I find it odd how, for a game that wastes a lot of time on completely meaningless cutscenes, Yuna doesn't seem at all disturbed by the appearence of the Dark Aeons, or having to kill them again. And then when the Bahamut fayth shows up and sincerely apologizes for not being able to prevent it Yuna cocks her head and cutely says "It's all right." Like, "Whatever, I killed you once I'll kill you again, kthx!" In fact, when she then goes to complain to Sephir - I mean Nooj, she starts going on about how hard it was to kill her Aeons at the end of X! You know, the plan that saved the world from the tyranny of Sin. And a sacrifice the fayth not only willingly made, but proposed in the first place. That apalled her, but having to kill them again after being forcibly dragged out of their slumber and perverted by evil? "That's all right." And before you say it, I'm aware that she says remorseful things in the opening of the battles with them, but they devoted whole cutscenes to Rikku comparing boob sizes, people.

Okay, sorry, I'm breaking my own rules - it's only about the dungeon. So the problem, once again, is where is the scenery? The Playstation era blew me away, show off your graphics guys!

There is that, but that is ONE screen during the dungeon intermission with the savepoint before continuing. Once you continue...

You're on those things, whatever they are. There's actually a puzzle here, so that's two things they've recovered from previous games, but its rather uninteresting. Notes play when you stand on certain circles and you must echo them on pianos by gates that open passages. You don't even have to remember them, the screen with the piano literally tells you what to play. All you have to do is find the tiles that play the note you have to copy. So it even admits its wasting my time. And the ridiculously high encounter rate is back from X, so have fun with that while you learn your scales. (The piano theme carries from Vegnagun, who is controlled with an organ. ...Yeah, apparently Elton John would really kick ass in Spira.)

And music, it's there. I actually had to go back and check because I didn't remember there being any. It's pretty ambient, but when I paid attention to it, the music wasn't bad. It is very tense, with crescendo horn blasts fading in an out. Eerie and ominous and it reflects the danger you are descending into.

As mentioned, I really love the battle system in this game, so I have always overlooked almost everything everyone hated about it because its just so fun to play. I think its the fastest a true turn-based system Final Fantasy has ever seen. Final Fantasy XIII's is faster still, but different.

Unfortunately, Square missed two in a row. It is clear that Spira simply does not make for good final dungeons, which is odd considering all the beautiful places it does contain. Sticking it out may reward you if you've been holding out to see the old boy again (that is, if you got the good ending). If not, I'm afraid your greatest reward is that the battle with Vegnagun's Core opens with:

Yuna: "It's so big!"
Rikku: "Wahoo! No more climbing!"

Next up: Bahamut, of the Sky Fortress variety!

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I must object to the Sky Fortress being considered the final dungeon. It was like, a short stroll to an elevator, then the final battles, there was nothing to it. The Pharos is the final dungeon of 12, easily.

 

[Alex Strife]

Unimpressed... I really was unimpressed by this final dungeon. Not quite remarkable. However, I have to agree with the fight system being fun. It was not polished, but it was good.

 

[Sprites]

Yeah I mean like you said Force it was an improvement on FFX but nothing special. I also couldn't understand why Yuna didn't get so upset when having to fight the other Aeons especially after the way she reacted to Bahamut the first time.

 

[Ryushikaze]

"Last time I slaughtered you all, I was appalled at the acts I had to commit. But now it's nostalgia!"

 

[ForceStealer]

I must object to the Sky Fortress being considered the final dungeon. It was like, a short stroll to an elevator, then the final battles, there was nothing to it. The Pharos is the final dungeon of 12, easily.

...but your wiki even lists the Sky Fortress as the final dungeon. And its the level in Dissidia 012.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Fun-to-read article there, Force.

I'm with Drake on the final dungeon matter for XII, by the way. You wouldn't count

Spoiler

the interior of Lavos

as the final dungeon for Chrono Trigger -- you'd select the Black Omen. You wouldn't pick just Crystal World for FFIX -- you would (in your case, did) pick Memoria also. You probably wouldn't even pick just Orphan's Cradle for FFXIII, but would throw in Eden as well.

At least I would. =P

 

[DrakeClawfang]

...but your wiki even lists the Sky Fortress as the final dungeon. And its the level in Dissidia 012.

And technically speaking Yu Yevon and Shirtless Sephy are the final bosses of their games. Who are we kidding? But since you mention it, that is something we should discuss there.

 

[Masamune]

Another good write-up, Force. I really have enjoyed this little series of yours.

It was real lame of them to recycle the Dark Aeons (technically, they aren't the Dark Aeons from the original game, right?). FFX-2 was full of lazy shit like that.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm with Drake on the final dungeon matter for XII, by the way. You wouldn't count

Spoiler

the interior of Lavos

as the final dungeon for Chrono Trigger -- you'd select the Black Omen. You wouldn't pick just Crystal World for FFIX -- you would (in your case, did) pick Memoria also. You probably wouldn't even pick just Orphan's Cradle for FFXIII, but would throw in Eden as well.

Okay. And, yeah, I had been planning to ask you guys what I should do about FFXIII since the whole game is kind of one long dungeon, but just including Orphan's Cradle didn't seem fair.

In fact, Tres, would you (or anyone really - Drake, Mako, Masamune...) like to do a guest spot for the FFXII entry? As we know it joins FF3 as one of the FFs I know the least about. If you just follow the same basic format: story buildup, feelings of the player upon entering, difficulty, scenery, music, features (gauntlets, puzzles), wrap-up - and focusing solely on the dungeon as much as possible it should fit perfectly fine and benefit from someone who knows the game's ins and outs much better. Any takers?

 

[ForceStealer]

In fact, Tres, would you (or anyone really - Drake, Mako, Masamune...) like to do a guest spot for the FFXII entry? As we know it joins FF3 as one of the FFs I know the least about. If you just follow the same basic format: story buildup, feelings of the player upon entering, difficulty, scenery, music, features (gauntlets, puzzles), wrap-up - and focusing solely on the dungeon as much as possible it should fit perfectly fine and benefit from someone who knows the game's ins and outs much better. Any takers?

y/n? Anybody? I don't wanna wait much longer before putting out the next part so do any of you want it?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Tell you the truth, I only played through XII one time, and that was like the month it came out. Haven't played it since.

Thanks for the offer, but I think it's better off in somebody else's hands.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I'd be willing, PM me with what you'd like and I'll whip something up.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

After spending two years seeking the power to battle the Empire and restore Dalmasca, the power Princess Ashe seeks waits a few hundred feet overhead - the Sun-Cryst, the source of deifacted nethicite. With the Treaty Blade of the Occuria, Ashe can cut her own shards of the giant crystal and use their magic to battle the Empire, but it would mean more war between Arcadia and its enemies, and Dalmasca will be caught in the crossfire. Will Ashe hold on to her lust for vengeance, or can she set aside her personal desires and do what is best for her people and kingdom? She'll have a long time to debate the issue. A convenient counter in the corner of the screen keeps track of the floors, telling us it's a 100-story trek to the tower's top room. And it definitely feels like you're taking every step yourself, because the Pharos is one of the longest dungeons in the series.

The Pharos isn't given much build-up, it's only mentioned briefly before you set out to Giruvegan where the Occuria await, but what we know about it gives it an impact. It lies beyond the ocean in a land where airships cannot fly, and atop the tower lies the Sun-Cryst, the Crystal from which King Raithwall cut the Midlight, Dawn and Dusk Shards and used their power to unite Ivalice. The Sun-Cryst and thus the Pharos are the source of deifacted nethicite, the force the entire game's plot has centered around. To take control of the Sun-Cryst would give Ashe the power to fight the Empire, but there's already talk of a war between Archadia and Rozzaria, and at this point a war of such magnitude could destroy Dalmasca. The previously determined Ashe is only now doubting if her quest for revenge is what she really wants, since it seems it will come at the cost of the country she loves.

The Pharos is divided into three parts, called "Ascents". The very first floor presents a puzzle in the form of four shrines that must be "fed" black orbs which are randomly dropped from enemies. Once the four shrines are sated the player enters an alternate reality and fights Pandaemonium, a giant turtle. After that begins the climbing, a long series of stairs leading up. Besides the normal enemies, the player must actively search for Brainpans and Deidars. When the green Brainpans die they spawn one "tile" of bridges leading to new areas, and Deidars spawn red bridges. But kill one of the other type while creating a bridge - like say, kill a red Deidar while creating a green bridge - and you lose a tile and have to kill an extra Brainpan. As you continue climbing finding enough enemies to complete the path you want requires you to backtrack quite a bit. After this is another boss, the blue fish Slyt.

That itself would be enough for a single dungeon, and takes as long as some other FF12 areas, but it's just Part One of Three. For the second Ascent the player must choose an altar and give up usage of Attacks, Magic, their Minimap or Items. Once they choose a handicap it's a climb up through several floors of powerful enemies, eventually facing a third boss, the white wolf Fenrir. When Fenrir falls the party gets their ability back and moves on the Third Ascent. For the Third Ascent, the player gets to deal with a puzzle of colored Waystones that teleport them about. It'd a fairly simple puzzle if you know the solution, otherwise you'll need to use your head and read runes scattered around the floors for clues to which color stone leads forward. Yet another boss awaits you now, the Esper of Earth and Bringer of Order, Hashmal. Finally you reach the final chamber and fight three bosses in a row. Aye yae yae.

The Pharos is a long, long trek and will take several hours. Fortunately save points are common and between floor lifts and Waystones you can leave the tower with fair ease. A Gate Crystal on the first floor conveniently lets you leave, restock your supplies and come back whenever you wish. The enemies are varied and can pose quite the challenge if the player is underleveled. The puzzles are varied and recall elements of previous dungeons, and the tower's layout is full of false walls and optional paths, and in one section picking the one Waystone lands you in a room full of powerful zombies, so tread lightly. Counting the skeleton dragon Hydro the player must fight to enter the Pharos in the first place, there's a total of eight bosses to be fought before the trip is done, but they're spread out over the tower's length so it doesn't feel overwhelming.

The music for the dungeon is...well, forgettable. Final Fantasy XII's soundtrack as a whole never left much of a mark on me, with the exception of the magnificent orchestral version of the series theme that plays when the game is turned on. There's nothing really wrong with the theme, it just isn't as memorable as some dungeon themes, not to mention that due to the battle system you're probably more focused on looking for enemies lurking in the shadows off-screen waiting to pounce than you are enjoying the music.

The atmosphere besides the music is incredible though, the main chamber of the Pharos is a long column of water rising in the center of a ring-shaped room, and the side-chambers are often darkened and can sometimes be hard to navigate. The sight of the pillar of water rising to the summit every time you enter the central chamber serves to constantly remind you of the power that awaits you on the final floor. Compounding this are the cutscenes along the way that emphasize the moral dilemma Ashe is turning over in her head during the climb, building the suspense even more. Tack on the atmosphere and plot build-up to the long, long climb, and by the time you reach the Sun-Cryst you're ready for a climax of epic proportions, and you get it. The strength of Final Fantasy XII's voice acting and scripting really comes through in these scenes, due in no small part to Doctor Cid, who is perhaps the most deliciously hammy villain in the series short of the Dissidia cast.

The Pharos is a truly epic dungeon combining puzzle solving with endurance and good-old-fashion brawls with strings of powerful enemies and bosses, inter-spliced with tense cutscenes. After spending the last three games of the series traveling inward, Final Fantasy XII makes up for lost ground with a hundred-floor climb upward. For one of my favorite games in the series, the pay-off at the top is worth the trip.

 

[ForceStealer]

Damn you did that fast. Interesting indeed. I really need to beat XII one of these days...

And do you go right from the top to the Sky Fortress?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

No, once you complete the dungeon the Sky Fortress takes off and you fly to it whenever you like, or can do some subquests.

Fortunately I've completed a replay of FF12 within the last few months, so my memories are fresh, just had to read a walkthrough on FFWiki to remind me of how the Ascents went.

EDIT - And for those who haven't finished FF12, behold the aforementioned "delicious ham".

 

[Super Mario]

I have a wquestion: How tall is the biggest opponent in FFXII? he is aller strong and big yes, but is he tall?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Yiazmat, Omega and Hell Wyrm are the largest, easily.