The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Makes sense. I'll take care of that.
Our Site
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
Shademp
420
Applauding
On a more practical note, this feature begs a question about how TLS organizes its essays. In what I reckon to be a diplomatic move, Tres has placed "Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally — An LTD Analysis" under Reviews & Analysis, instead of Canon of FFVII. Was it a conscious move for you to appear less "presumptuous/arrogant" by not placing it under Canon of FFVII?
If so, then what should be done with the other LTD features under this index page? Specifically...
- Love Triangle Debate Analysis
- FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania excerpt: End of the LTD
What do you guys, especially Tres, think about this?
Also, I have heard that the Dissidia Plot Analysis may contain some outdated content due to the additions from Dissidia Duodecim (see also Dissidia 012 Plot Analysis). Should this feature be placed under a new "Archives" category, where an article is deemed either incomplete or outdated in the light of newer features? If so, then perhaps the two old LTD articles could be placed there, instead linking Tres's LTD book under Plot Analyses?
Just some thoughts there.
On a more practical note, this feature begs a question about how TLS organizes its essays. In what I reckon to be a diplomatic move, Tres has placed "Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally — An LTD Analysis" under Reviews & Analysis, instead of Canon of FFVII. Was it a conscious move for you to appear less "presumptuous/arrogant" by not placing it under Canon of FFVII?
If so, then what should be done with the other LTD features under this index page? Specifically...
- Love Triangle Debate Analysis
- FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania excerpt: End of the LTD
What do you guys, especially Tres, think about this?
Also, I have heard that the Dissidia Plot Analysis may contain some outdated content due to the additions from Dissidia Duodecim (see also Dissidia 012 Plot Analysis). Should this feature be placed under a new "Archives" category, where an article is deemed either incomplete or outdated in the light of newer features? If so, then perhaps the two old LTD articles could be placed there, instead linking Tres's LTD book under Plot Analyses?
Just some thoughts there.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
It was a fully conscious move, yes, and partly for diplomatic purposes. Not only did it seem like the right thing to do to avoid making it look like I was trying to say "fuck you" to certain people, it just seemed to fit better in a section for analysis. I don't mind it appearing on both pages (i.e., both in "Reviews & Analysis" and in "Canon of FFVII" under the "Plot Analyses" header), though.
As for what to do with the outdated pages, something certainly needs to be. Both of those other two LTD articles need to be placed elsewhere in my opinion, and likewise for my original Dissidia Plot Analysis. It's definitely obsolete.
An "Archives" category sounds like a good idea. It just needs to be carefully explained what the section is for/why those articles are there, with links to their updated versions provided.
Also, wherever my original Dissidia Plot Analysis ends up, this needs to go there with it: Predictions and Conflict Over the Plot of Final Fantasy Dissidia 012 (Duodecim).
As for what to do with the outdated pages, something certainly needs to be. Both of those other two LTD articles need to be placed elsewhere in my opinion, and likewise for my original Dissidia Plot Analysis. It's definitely obsolete.
An "Archives" category sounds like a good idea. It just needs to be carefully explained what the section is for/why those articles are there, with links to their updated versions provided.
Also, wherever my original Dissidia Plot Analysis ends up, this needs to go there with it: Predictions and Conflict Over the Plot of Final Fantasy Dissidia 012 (Duodecim).
Shademp
420
What I've currently done is create a section called "Ye Olde Vault" at the bottom of CoFFVII. The simple name "Archives" isn't distinctive enough of a listing with outdated/obsolete features, ergo why I added the "Ye Olde" part and went with "Vault" instead. I'm not sure though if the name "Vault" carries too much the connotation of being something locked away from the masses, which is certainly not the case here. Feedback?
The article "Predictions and Conflict Over the Plot of Final Fantasy Dissidia 012 (Duodecim)" has been placed under this category along with a few others.
That's what I currently have to say on the Canon of FFVII section. I have no particular thoughts for the Reviews & Analysis index.
The article "Predictions and Conflict Over the Plot of Final Fantasy Dissidia 012 (Duodecim)" has been placed under this category along with a few others.
That's what I currently have to say on the Canon of FFVII section. I have no particular thoughts for the Reviews & Analysis index.
Fangu
Great Old One
I just wanted to say that I haven't been working on the TwentyTwelve-adaption on test server for some time. It's partly because of coding at work feeling like enough coding for one day, but also because I don't think there's a huge need for an upgrade - it would be nice to have more article previews on the front page etc, but those are changes I can make without doing hardcore design adoptions. Actually I think the wisest thing to do would be to continue working with Twenty Eleven (which we are running on atm) as I don't think WP is going to make any major changes that will break it. Adapting to Twelve (tables, fonts, headers, aligns, borders, widths, dynamic adjustments (for phones and pads etc)) is probably a lot more work than necessary. I mean for someone interested in WordPress and WP themes it's a good exercise, but I'm not sure I'm up for it, nor that it's worth my time.
Not sure what I want with this post. Maybe to say that should anyone be really keen on a design change I'll be willing to do it/ help out, but fiddling with fonts and colours for fun won't be my top priority. I think I'm about 60% done. I might pick it up later.
Not sure what I want with this post. Maybe to say that should anyone be really keen on a design change I'll be willing to do it/ help out, but fiddling with fonts and colours for fun won't be my top priority. I think I'm about 60% done. I might pick it up later.
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
Like I mentioned, I don't know much about programming and such, but I was under the impression that some sites have an integrated suite of both the forum and the front-end with vb.
Honestly? To me personally, it just looks and feels bare-boned and un-stylish. Appearance wise it looks limited, and that in turn doesn't create an active engagement with the browser to want to explore the site. You technically have everything that any other site has: news, forum articles and site articles, but other sites just manage to present it in a way that engages users.
It's difficult to pinpoint exactly, but since Eyes on FF was already mentioned here, take their front-end, or Final Fantasy Forums main page. It's a nice (not fantastic by any means, they could do with a little de-cluttering) but they have a nice fusion of articles, news, and comments from both site and forum. It looks and feels engaging, and makes you want to click everywhere and explore.
TLS just feels bare. From reading the forums, you guys have a lot of ideas about adding to the site, and there is a lot of interesting articles and such up there already which definitely took time and effort, but it's all just presented in a 'list' (for lack of a better word) and again, doesn't look or feel engaging.
Again, this is all just my first impressions and opinions. No disrespect or anything intended. Like I mentioned, there is a lot of great stuff up here ... the presentations just needs to be tweaked I feel.
Lex
Administrator
None taken, everyone's entitled to their opinion. The thing is, the site used to look similar to the ones you mentioned, but nothing really had a specific order and it just looked really cluttered. This design was chosen because it keeps things simple and organises the content in a way that's obvious rather than overloading the readers with too much. I suppose it's one of those things that works for some people and not for others. I don't like being overloaded with stuff when I load a front page because I don't know where to click, others might go "oooo look at all the things".
The redesign itself was discussed at length and the layout was designed by Flint while the programming was done by Fangu. Everyone agreed on the current layout and there were numerous reasons for it, mainly due to its simplicity and the fact that it also works well on mobile (unlike the forum, har de har).
Honestly I think the general layout is great, if anything in the future we might want to consider just making it a bit shinier/ maybe integrating the social stuff in a box somewhere, but other than that I don't see where we could make many changes. The colour scheme is a major limiting factor for us. We want to keep/ love the dark green-ness and don't want to change the banner or anything, but look anywhere and a web designer will tell you that bright white/ poppy but mellow colours are the way to go to attract readers.
Anyway, this is off topic chat. Feel free to continue the discussion in the "our site" thread if you have any suggestions at all about the site and we can discuss them/ will keep them in mind for future changes.
For the record, the main site is powered by wordpress, and the forum by vB.
The redesign itself was discussed at length and the layout was designed by Flint while the programming was done by Fangu. Everyone agreed on the current layout and there were numerous reasons for it, mainly due to its simplicity and the fact that it also works well on mobile (unlike the forum, har de har).
Honestly I think the general layout is great, if anything in the future we might want to consider just making it a bit shinier/ maybe integrating the social stuff in a box somewhere, but other than that I don't see where we could make many changes. The colour scheme is a major limiting factor for us. We want to keep/ love the dark green-ness and don't want to change the banner or anything, but look anywhere and a web designer will tell you that bright white/ poppy but mellow colours are the way to go to attract readers.
Anyway, this is off topic chat. Feel free to continue the discussion in the "our site" thread if you have any suggestions at all about the site and we can discuss them/ will keep them in mind for future changes.
For the record, the main site is powered by wordpress, and the forum by vB.
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Fangu
Great Old One
Straight to the point, honest, non-filtered feedback, Claymore, thank you - this is feedback how I prefer it to be honest (and I wish I had the same kind for my writing, but that's a different story 
)
If you take a look at Flint's
, how do you find it in comparison? Because I agree with you on the front page being slightly too minimalist - the plan was to put more images in there (re: image above) utilizing the 'Happening Now' bar, etc. I was working on getting avatars out of the forum database too, and now that I've actually been doing a similar thing at work (outputting binary files as images) I might be able to do it now. (But that's another discussion, whether to adjust the current design to WP Twenty Twelve or to decide on staying on Eleven and just work with that. I started the Twelve merge but one can only bother fiddling with CSS for so long.)
I'm ranting
)If you take a look at Flint's
I'm ranting
.
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
Straight to the point, honest, non-filtered feedback, Claymore, thank you - this is feedback how I prefer it to be honest (and I wish I had the same kind for my writing, but that's a different story
No problem at all. Just wanted to give my honest thoughts and opinions on the initial impressions that I had.
If you take a look at Flint's, how do you find it in comparison? Because I agree with you on the front page being slightly too minimalist - the plan was to put more images in there (re: image above) utilizing the 'Happening Now' bar, etc. I was working on getting avatars out of the forum database too, and now that I've actually been doing a similar thing at work (outputting binary files as images) I might be able to do it now.
In comparison I absolutely love that design. I feel like it strikes a really nice balance between keeping everything incredibly neat and organised whilst providing a lot more engaging content. I love that different sections are highlighted (community events, articles, news, podcasts, etc...) making me want to explore the site. Yeah, that design is a great step up in my opinion.
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
Yeah, that design is fucking awesome. What the heck?
Fangu
Great Old One
This, on the other hand, is honest, but confusing feedback
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
For the record, I'm a big fan of that one too.
Fangu
Great Old One
I should probably (re)inform to those of you who don't know that this is draft 2B that Flint came up with after a bit of back and forth on design 2(A). It's what is meant to be implemented, but as I wrote in this thread a while back, I tons of excuses haven't gotten around to it yet/ it's not a priority for me at the moment.
Flintlock
Pro Adventurer
The current site design was not any single person's idea of perfection. It was basically a cleaned-up version of what we had before, with a couple of added bells and whistles. Time and (wo)man-power constraints made it that way. Nobody is getting paid to work on the site, remember 
I have said before that I'd like a lighter colour scheme, but I was in a minority. I'm not surprised; for a site called the Lifestream, the colour of the actual Lifestream is an obvious starting point. Maybe one day I'll produce a light-themed mock-up, but for now, I think the design that Fangu just re-shared is what we should be working towards (and what we are working towards, however slowly).
Looking at it now, there are still a couple of things that can be tweaked. Our podcast has been appearing so irregularly that it might not be worth giving it such prominence on the front page, for example. But we can worry about those at a later date once the layout has been implemented.
All feedback and suggestions are welcome, as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Claymore
I have said before that I'd like a lighter colour scheme, but I was in a minority. I'm not surprised; for a site called the Lifestream, the colour of the actual Lifestream is an obvious starting point. Maybe one day I'll produce a light-themed mock-up, but for now, I think the design that Fangu just re-shared is what we should be working towards (and what we are working towards, however slowly).
Looking at it now, there are still a couple of things that can be tweaked. Our podcast has been appearing so irregularly that it might not be worth giving it such prominence on the front page, for example. But we can worry about those at a later date once the layout has been implemented.
All feedback and suggestions are welcome, as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Claymore
Fangu
Great Old One
So I started working on it for the hell of it. I'll need images of the Podcast (or anything else) logo there Flint. I finally seem to have able to figure out what broke the 'Radley' font on the headings for Twenty Twelve as well. And re: Twenty Twelve, I seem to be a lot further than I thought. The biggest concern I have is that the single page posts looks a bit different (double line at the end, commentary fields looks weird, links aren't the proper colour) as well as Shademp's articles which will have to be meticulously checked - but it's a matter of just starting in one end and working towards the other. For that I'll have to copy a post from Shad's article on the current server (don't worry man I have my account set to go straight to HTML).
Anyway I've been fiddling with the CSS - now I get to do the fun part, which is the actual programming part
(Although writing code without a proper intellisense solution is hell on cake. When you can't use that or debug properly, it's all a matter of guessing - but that's our own fault for not setting up a proper working environment - but when you're only two devs it does seem like overkill. Google still works!)
Also Flint, remind me, how did we plan on adding the link to the forum thread? We talked about making a field in the page where you add/ edit the post for just putting in the ID to the forum thread?
Anyway I've been fiddling with the CSS - now I get to do the fun part, which is the actual programming part
(Although writing code without a proper intellisense solution is hell on cake. When you can't use that or debug properly, it's all a matter of guessing - but that's our own fault for not setting up a proper working environment - but when you're only two devs it does seem like overkill. Google still works!)Also Flint, remind me, how did we plan on adding the link to the forum thread? We talked about making a field in the page where you add/ edit the post for just putting in the ID to the forum thread?
Flintlock
Pro Adventurer
Link. The podcast logo is imperfect (it's not transparent, and the "reflection" of the left-most bar is slightly different to the others), because I copied the one Pixel made and then modified it slightly. It would be better if he could provide the original.
Let me know if there's anything else you need.
I don't remember, but if it's possible to have a custom field like you describe, that would be perfect.
Fangu
Great Old One
Also I need some input on what forum threads we want to show off - from the image it looks like we want the latest thread from specific subforums to show up. Do we want more 'generic and popular' threads to pop up as well? (We can make a "10 latest posts" from the forum as well - at least with usernames and dates and thread titles and categories - not yet sure about the avatars, and filtering the posts for bb tags will probably be hell)
Flintlock
Pro Adventurer
That's correct. The forums listed in my draft are all the Final Fantasy ones. I'm not sure we need to be linking to anything else, as (a) the titles, like "trivial shit that annoys you", can be inappropriate for the front page, and (b) even if a visitor likes the look of a thread and clicks on it, they can't view it anyway. I'm not sure where we'd fit it in, either.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
There's also the fact that threads that aren't in public view probably shouldn't have their titles accessible on the main page either, because people may be relying on them remaining inaccessible to guests and unindexed by search engines for privacy reasons.
Fangu
Great Old One
As of now they do - but when you click them you are sent to a message saying you might not be able to view it. (Teasy!)
Flint: Affermative. Makes for a much easier query anyway
Edit: I also strongly suggest we get more than just a thread title in the forum reference, like timestamp, number of existing posts in thread and who wrote the last post - suggestion for design?
Flint: Affermative. Makes for a much easier query anyway
Edit: I also strongly suggest we get more than just a thread title in the forum reference, like timestamp, number of existing posts in thread and who wrote the last post - suggestion for design?
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Lex
Administrator
Timestamp and post author are definite good ideas. I was thinking why not just remove the forum its in and replace that with author?
i.e. "6 minutes ago in General Gaming" becomes "6 minutes ago by Member".
I just never pay attention to the actual subforum a thread is in, and I'm not sure how useful it is when we have the thread title as a descriptor.
i.e. "6 minutes ago in General Gaming" becomes "6 minutes ago by Member".
I just never pay attention to the actual subforum a thread is in, and I'm not sure how useful it is when we have the thread title as a descriptor.
Fangu
Great Old One
1) Another suggestion for the forum threads output is - we make little icons for the subsections, being (the ones not bolded):
Compilation of Final Fantasy VII
Compilation General (LTD icon? SHUDDER)
Pre-Crisis (Crisis Core icon?)
Final Fantasy VII (VII icon)
Post-Crisis (Dirge of Cerberus icon?)
Compilation fan creations (someone's art)
Final Fantasy
Classic FF (FF1 icon?)
Neo FF (LR:XIII or KIV icon?)
Sub-Final FF (Kingdom Hearts icon?)
Generally, I think images/ icons are a good idea - it draws your attention and instantly lets you understand what a link is about, unlike text which you have to *read*.
2) For the General Discussions, we could have a "last updated thread in General Discussion" which reveals the title and the number of posts, but not the poster. In which case this subsection is still 'hidden'. (As it is right now, I have to manually plot in which subsections are allowed on the front page - that's why you don't see the 2013 TLS Awards in the list, cus I didn't put it in)
Compilation of Final Fantasy VII
Compilation General (LTD icon? SHUDDER)
Pre-Crisis (Crisis Core icon?)
Final Fantasy VII (VII icon)
Post-Crisis (Dirge of Cerberus icon?)
Compilation fan creations (someone's art)
Final Fantasy
Classic FF (FF1 icon?)
Neo FF (LR:XIII or KIV icon?)
Sub-Final FF (Kingdom Hearts icon?)
Generally, I think images/ icons are a good idea - it draws your attention and instantly lets you understand what a link is about, unlike text which you have to *read*.
2) For the General Discussions, we could have a "last updated thread in General Discussion" which reveals the title and the number of posts, but not the poster. In which case this subsection is still 'hidden'. (As it is right now, I have to manually plot in which subsections are allowed on the front page - that's why you don't see the 2013 TLS Awards in the list, cus I didn't put it in)
<?php $forumCats = array(3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 46, 37, 36, 38, 47, 39, 41, 55, 43, 44, 48, 51, 56, 57, 58, 59, 61, 60, 65, 68); ?>
<?php $catsNotLinked = array(6, 46, 47, 23, 24, 70, 18); // Categories that should not be linked directly to the forums but sent through gotoforum and template-gotoforum ?>
<?php $excludedThreads = array(10241, 10238, 11166, 5005, 6648, 5880); ?>
<?php $noOfPosts = 8; // Wanted no of posts output ?>
<?php forum_get_latest_posts($forumCats, $catsNotLinked, $excludedThreads, $noOfPosts); ?>
<?php $catsNotLinked = array(6, 46, 47, 23, 24, 70, 18); // Categories that should not be linked directly to the forums but sent through gotoforum and template-gotoforum ?>
<?php $excludedThreads = array(10241, 10238, 11166, 5005, 6648, 5880); ?>
<?php $noOfPosts = 8; // Wanted no of posts output ?>
<?php forum_get_latest_posts($forumCats, $catsNotLinked, $excludedThreads, $noOfPosts); ?>
Fangu
Great Old One
Okay so - the previous post was for forum pulls, feedback wanted from anyone, really.
The second thing is also for anyone - but Flint mainly - remember we talked about "Related articles" and what posts to show from the same category? As it is right now on the frontpage, it doesn't work as I first wrote it because someone changed it (not giving names, gigglesnort) - the "Related articles" now shows the three articles also showing up in the "medium previews", which is not how I intended it. The code was supposed to check for posts mentioned on the front page (large preview, the 3 medium previews, "More News") and then output article that doesn't show up already.
That being said - I see you still left in one "Related article" in there. Suppose ALL articles being output on the front page (be it large preview, medium, smaller, "list") are from "Weekly Roundups" - which article do you put in "Related"? I would assume the first on the list to not already having been output (large preview, medium, smaller, "list") but it's up to you (guys) really.
I've fixed the code so it works as intended, so all I have to do now is put in a number to make it work.
I'll keep fiddling with the CSS and forum pulls now, but 50% of this is a content discussion so - input needed
The second thing is also for anyone - but Flint mainly - remember we talked about "Related articles" and what posts to show from the same category? As it is right now on the frontpage, it doesn't work as I first wrote it because someone changed it (not giving names, gigglesnort) - the "Related articles" now shows the three articles also showing up in the "medium previews", which is not how I intended it. The code was supposed to check for posts mentioned on the front page (large preview, the 3 medium previews, "More News") and then output article that doesn't show up already.
That being said - I see you still left in one "Related article" in there. Suppose ALL articles being output on the front page (be it large preview, medium, smaller, "list") are from "Weekly Roundups" - which article do you put in "Related"? I would assume the first on the list to not already having been output (large preview, medium, smaller, "list") but it's up to you (guys) really.
I've fixed the code so it works as intended, so all I have to do now is put in a number to make it work.
I'll keep fiddling with the CSS and forum pulls now, but 50% of this is a content discussion so - input needed