PlayStation 4

[Geostigma]

While I agree that there is a responsibility on the part of the consumer to look after stuff (ie not letting the cat sleep on the fucking thing) I still don't accept that the majority of breakages/faults is the fault of customers.

I have a PC that gets hammered on a daily basis for hours on end, for games, for power sapping programs like Photoshop etc and its not some sort of suped up high end thing, its roughly equivalent to a PS3/360. I haven't invested in a special cooling system or anything, I don't give it any special maintenence like cleaning the fans (though I know I should) and although I'm not going to claim that it hasn't shat its pants on occasion, its never just flat out broken.

I'm not going to claim that this is a case of inbuilt obsolescence (even though it feels like it sometimes) but rather a general shoddyness of build quality, that and we pretty much know they make a ridiculous markup on these consoles. Like that glue drying on the motherboard issue? It's just not good enough. /2cents

When you reference your pc , is it a laptop or a desktop?
Consoles are more comparable to laptops then desktops if anything, you can neglect a desktop for years and they will continue to chug along. Theyll probably slow down alot but theyll keep going.

The thing is Consoles (with the exception of the godlike Wii) are built by cheapskates. The moving parts, motherboard, cpu, hard drive, ect. Are pretty low quality, especially by todays standards. Sure this over all can be applied to be a fault of the company rather then the user. But its these qualities in them that lead to the console failing prematurely if put in the hands of someone who neglects it or , as you said "lets the cat sleep on it" lol.

Poor user responsibility, some shoddy working parts and also the fact that hard drives dont generally last very long
http://static.googleusercontent.com...ch.google.com/en/us/archive/disk_failures.pdf

Dont fare well for the neglectful console user.
PS3's are going into there 6th year in cycle pretty soon and considering the PS3 is arguably the most HDD intensive console out right now its probable that more failures will begin to arise due to both heat and HDD failure reasons.

ike that glue drying on the motherboard issue? It's just not good enough.

It may not be a good enough reason for you to believe but it is generally the accepted cause of most current PS3 failures and YLOD in the PS3 and Tech communities. In fact removing the lead based heat shield seat glue thing and applying a new one yourself every now and then has proven to prevent YLOD and even Fix it.

 

[Octo]

When you reference your pc , is it a laptop or a desktop?
Consoles are more comparable to laptops then desktops if anything, you can neglect a desktop for years and they will continue to chug along. Theyll probably slow down alot but theyll keep going.

I was talking about the desktop, but the laptop hasn't been too bad either, I've had it for about 3-4 years now, and although I don't really use it for the latest games it does get hammered. Plus I'm a bad laptop owner. I keep it on my knee/a cushion even though that basically means the fan is sucking up fluff and its not well ventilated, so I sort of expect it to fail one day. But it hasn't yet, and again its not some sort of high end thing, just a bog standard Dell.

The thing is Consoles (with the exception of the godlike Wii) are built by cheapskates. The moving parts, motherboard, cpu, hard drive, ect. Are pretty low quality, especially by todays standards. Sure this over all can be applied to be a fault of the company rather then the user. But its these qualities in them that lead to the console failing prematurely if put in the hands of someone who neglects it or , as you said "lets the cat sleep on it" lol.

I totally agree, which is why whenever the next gen console comes out I'll be waiting for a massive price drop. It just kind of sucks to shell out so much for a low quality product.

Plus, cat's sleeping habits aside, to really comply with the manufacturers care suggestions you have to do that thing of letting it cool down every so often. Can anyone here honestly say they do that religiously? With Skyrim? Or Mass Effect? Its a gaming machine for fuck's sake

Other than the occasional all nighters, we'd followed all the recommendations: Flat surface, well ventilated, 6 inch clearence all around. I still don't think its fair when compared to other electronic products that take a beating on a daily basis.

Poor user responsibility, some shoddy working parts and also the fact that hard drives dont generally last very long
http://static.googleusercontent.com...ch.google.com/en/us/archive/disk_failures.pdf

Dont fare well for the neglectful console user.
PS3's are going into there 6th year in cycle pretty soon and considering the PS3 is arguably the most HDD intensive console out right now its probable that more failures will begin to arise due to both heat and HDD failure reasons.

Its a good thing they're not releasing any games I want to play then

It may not be a good enough reason for you to believe but it is generally the accepted cause of most current PS3 failures and YLOD in the PS3 and Tech communities. In fact removing the lead based heat shield seat glue thing and applying a new one yourself every now and then has proven to prevent YLOD and even Fix it.

No I believe it completely. I just meant its not good enough that that was allowed to happen in the first place. Plus I don't know if the average Joe can be expected to tinker with the hardware, it might be a relatively simple job but the average person hasn't done anything like that since school.

I guess the whole thing comes down to money, they're going to make the biggest profits using the crappest parts, and they know their customers gaming habits, that people like to play as often as they can for as long as they can but they don't really care about that, because they know we'll keep on buying 'em anyway.

I guess its a case of buyer beware eh?

 

[Geostigma]

I totally agree, which is why whenever the next gen console comes out I'll be waiting for a massive price drop. It just kind of sucks to shell out so much for a low quality product.

Its also a smart move in that by the second year or so Microsoft and Sony like to change up some of the parts to be a bit more efficient as noted in one of my earlier .pdf links that showed the 360 went through 3 chipset models before finding a fix for the RRoD.

Early adopters are generally beta testers for pretty much everything lol.

I still don't think its fair when compared to other electronic products that take a beating on a daily basis.

I see what your saying i how ever dont agree. My microwave has lasted years, my conventional toaster oven lasted about 1 and a half. Despite having similar functions and similar parts. Anecdotal evidence only gets us so far.
Despite consoles and Computers having similar functions, they do at there core vary in the way they operate. I can guarantee though that if you leave any console on every single day like one would a PC the console would break in a fraction of the time.
Once again this could be attributed as a fault of the manufacturer. Then again, its not the manufacturers fault "Customer x" decided to leave it on 24/7.

Statistically the most common PS3 errors are

Disc Read error : Fix , clean the lens (also one of the biggest PS2 failure). Caused by dust storing in the PS3, Can be prevented by cleaning the fans with compressed air, or even a feather duster.

Input/Video Error: Cause, PS3 failed to identify what cable is connecting it to the tv. Sometimes its due to a faulty port (aka shoddy hardware). More often then not though, its the user failing to recognize a recent change in there set up like going from HDMI to Component. Fix : Hold down the front panel button on start up until it beeps a second time.

YLOD Error: Internal component burned out, usually the CPU. It could be because the heat shield dried up.Either due to poor soldering, or to excessive heat, clogged fans, or broken fans, fans can break for running to hard to offset the over heating, once they go out your ps3 is a ticking time bomb of heart ache.

The only known error for PS3 that would be considered a batch issue is the YLOD and heat shield errors. Most other break downs are not actual break downs (see the Input error).
Without knowing what symptom you had when yours broke down it would be difficult to apply one of these or other lesser PS3 failures to your case but i still maintain that usually (not always) it is something that is caused by the user.

No I believe it completely.

I completely misread your post im sorry.

I guess its a case of buyer beware eh?

Most definitely. With the way consoles used to be built you could literally neglect them for years and nothing would happen to them, in fact the more prominent failure reasons were due to accessories failing or being lost rather then the console itself failing.
Like others here i still have a genesis that works like a dream, In fact a friend of mine inherrited a gaming collection from a shut down mom and pop rental shop. He has a box full of sega games that we play all the time, nothing beats some classic Sonic with a classic controller

 

[Tennyo]

When you reference your pc , is it a laptop or a desktop?
Consoles are more comparable to laptops then desktops if anything, you can neglect a desktop for years and they will continue to chug along. Theyll probably slow down alot but theyll keep going.

If only you knew what I have done to my laptop.

Even I'm surprised this thing still runs like a pro after five years.

 

[Geostigma]

lol most laptops usually go through hell and back it seems.
Mine sure has thats for sure.

 

[Geostigma]

Not really PS4 news but still an interesting somewhat related read.

Former THQ exec claims used game market is harming single player modes

 

[Tetsujin]

They can all go suck cocks. Second hand market doesn't kill anything. Greedy bastards.

 

[Alex Strife]

If there's anything that's killing single-player games nowadays is the obsession with social gaming.

I mean, SOME social gaming is fine. But I like me some good ol' single player games, too...

 

[Geostigma]

I would say it has something to do with

1) The single player game not really being all that great/Less fun then the multiplayer.
2) Multiplayer not being a bad idea?

The Ex exec for THQ was obviously reaching for an excuse to blame used games. Maybe Ninja Gaiden 3 has multiplayer because this is an age where Internet gaming is a must have?

 

[Hisako]

The used game market isn't "killing" anything, but it is taking huge amounts of money out of the actual publisher's hands and is putting them into the supplier's hands in a relatively effortless way, and I believe not a cent actually goes to the people who made the product.

Call it greedy and money-grubbing on an executive's part to lambast the problem with a dumb angle, but it's perfectly understandable (even if not sympathetic) that they're concerned about those millions of dollars that game stores are pocketing for profits that probably should be going towards the publisher and developers.

 

[Tennyo]

I don't know, I kind of feel like, should I stop buying clothing and stuff at thrift stores and just keep paying more for brand new stuff so that clothing manufacturers can make sure to make a profit?

Maybe instead of checking out books at the library or buying stuff from Half-Priced Books or the used section at Barne's & Nobel I should have made sure to buy all my books brand-new at Border's so they wouldn't have gone out of business?

I guess It doesn't really matter much to me anymore, but I have to say is, if they are going to do away with used games then new games better go down in price. I mean, can this really fix the problem? People buy used games because they are cheaper. If games remain at the prices they are now, perhaps a lot of people will just simply play fewer games. How would that fix anything?

Keep in mind, too, that chains like GameStop have to PURCHASE said used games before they sell them. You make it sound like they are getting these games for free.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I don't understand why people say that a used game being resold doesn't profit the publisher/game designer/middlemanagloreetc. They did profit from the sale of the game originally, right? That's profit there. So whoever bought it has the right to do with it as they please. You lose control of a product once it is sold; you can't tell people what to do with it. If I buy a shirt and then sell it to my friend because she wants it and I want the money from it, the companies need to suck it up and realize this is the natural cycle of finances.

As was said, if people who normally buy used games cannot now do so a lot of them just won't buy the games at all. That actually hurts the publishers/etc. more since gamers who would have gotten into their series through a used game now won't ever learn of them. If it wasn't from getting free access to a few things in life, I'd have less interest in some music bands, etc.

Also, recycling a game is environmentally friendly, though this is not the reason the vast majority of people sell/buy/trade games, it's still a benefit to our planet, so let's not lose that as well, shall we?

 

[Geostigma]

I don't understand why people say that a used game being resold doesn't profit the publisher/game designer/middlemanagloreetc. They did profit from the original game, right? That's profit right there. So whoever bought it has the right to do with it as they please. As was said, if people who normally buy used games cannot now do so a lot of these people just won't buy them at all.

Also, recycling a game is environmentally friendly, though this is not the reason the vast majority of people sell/buy/trade games, it's still a benefit to our planet, so let's not lose that as well, shall we?

Problem is the publishers use the broken circular logic of "IF they didnt buy it used they would have bought it new"

Which as we all know the truth is
"IF we didnt buy it used, we probably would never have played it"

 

[Octo]

Yeah virtually everything that gets sold 2nd hand doesn't benefit the original manufacturer, so why should games be any different?

 

[Dawnbreaker]

See but it DOES benefit the manufacture in many cases. I wouldn't have played a lot of games if it wasn't that they came as gifts, or I decided to take a chance at a second hand one. Who wants to lose money on a game that's full-price when cash is limited? How many gamers are so weathy they can spend outlandish amounts of money on new games?

No, let's just shut down these used games sellers and reduce our market. Sounds smart, right?

Circular logic is exactly it. Sometimes big corporations have their heads so far up their asses they actually start to lose brain cells.

 

[Geostigma]

Not to mention it would destroy services like gamefly and redbox, honestly i love these two services. Especially redbox, for 2 dollars i can try out a game for a day and figure out if its a game i may want to buy or pass on. Thats an excellent deal, ill be a sad panda when it becomes a thing of the past.

Whats sad is that publishers and Devs at this point dont care if there game actually gets played, they just care if it gets bought at full price. There no longer the artist's I thought they were, there no better then snobby art dealers.

I admittedly dont know how it works, but when companies like wal mart and best buy get these games for retail dont they pay for the game as well? Cant the publishers just be happy with that, albeit probably discounted, sell?

edit:

For the record though i still believe that sony wont implement a anti used game system in a PS4 but it really worries and upsets me that multiple game develorpers and directors are so readily behind and for this idea.

 

[Hisako]

I don't know, I kind of feel like, should I stop buying clothing and stuff at thrift stores and just keep paying more for brand new stuff so that clothing manufacturers can make sure to make a profit?

Maybe instead of checking out books at the library or buying stuff from Half-Priced Books or the used section at Barne's & Nobel I should have made sure to buy all my books brand-new at Border's so they wouldn't have gone out of business?

I guess It doesn't really matter much to me anymore, but I have to say is, if they are going to do away with used games then new games better go down in price. I mean, can this really fix the problem? People buy used games because they are cheaper. If games remain at the prices they are now, perhaps a lot of people will just simply play fewer games. How would that fix anything?

Keep in mind, too, that chains like GameStop have to PURCHASE said used games before they sell them. You make it sound like they are getting these games for free.

What? I never said anything of the sort. And consumer choice has nothing to do with the problem, it's to do with the relationship specifically between publisher and supplier that I was talking about. All this talk about second-hand games benefiting the consumer is fair game, no-one's disputing how it helps us. I buy second-hand games all the time.

I agree that a solid price drop in new releases should be the solution to the problem (thereby mitigating the point of used games in the first place), but it doesn't change the fact that vendors are currently circulating used games/trade-ins with zero tribute to the original source past the initial purchase of new stock. It's easy money, and although I don't necessarily agree with their complaints it's easy to understand why they feel like they're missing out on sales.

ed: Personally I do agree with idea that multiplayer (especially competitive multiplayer) is a major draw for gamers looking for replayability, and that with poor business practice it can detract from single-player gaming. But it's an issue separate from used game sales, and honestly I think isn't so much a cause as it is a symptom, because a good multiplayer does not necessarily a bad single-player make. I don't think Sony needs to change their approach all that much, since the majority of core titles I've seen (and played) have mostly been quality single-player games with a great supplementary multiplayer, and in my opinion that's the perfect balance.

 

[Lex]

I just saw this.

Found it quite exciting.

 

[AvecAloes]

Ha, I just saw that too I'll be more excited on February 20th, when I actually see what they have up their sleeves

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I've only had a PS3 of my own for a year. So fuck those guys.

 

[Carlie]

Yop is worse, his is only a few months old same as my brother, serves them right for waiting too long.

I'm intrigued, can't wait for February 20th to see what it is.

 

[Tetsujin]

If it's PS4, I'll wait for the slim. I don't trust the first models anymore. =p

 

[Drax]

My fat PS3 is still alive and functioning great, but my PS2 slim is the problem child. As such, I'm very reluctant to buy slims. They try to fit too much in a small heat space.

Also I hate the fact that my black Wii doesn't play GameCube games, or hook a wavebird to it.

 

[Tennyo]

I've only had a PS3 of my own for a year. So fuck those guys.

I got my PS3 Black Friday 2010. I'm not buying a new console yet oh hell no.

Except maybe a Wii which is now obsolete but I don't care I still kind of want one.

 

[Ghost X]

I got my PS3 in September 2008, I think, and I bought it then only because I had moved back to Australia from the UK (didn't want to buy it there, knowing I was moving), and also because of MGS4. I won't buy the PS4 until I need to either... which probably won't be until MGS5 is released on it or something .