PlayStation Vita (Sony Next Generation Portable)

[Hisako]

To be honest, if they released a model of the same design as the 3000 except with the addition of a 2nd analog nub, I'd trade in my PSP just to get it and I'd be happy for quite a while. It isn't the only improvement to the series, but it damn well means a lot.

 

[Cloud_S]

Sounds quite awesome, a very powerful handheld! I hope hackers eventually do what they did before, and we have CFW on the PSP2..... and I would like an optional layout using the XMB.... I like it.

Heh.... and here I still have a PSP-1000.....

 

[Max Payne]

I never claimed that the NGP would be as powerful as the PS3. Look more carefully at what I said. It's capable of utilizing the same model data and environments as a PS3, and the development processes are similiar enough that it's very easy to translate games between the two systems. If it was as powerful as a PS3, the tech demos would look exactly the same as the PS3 version - which they don't, but they DO look quite impressive.

Now where did I say you did? They said it would be and I was responding to that. Remember how the PS2 was going to have Toy story 2 graphics? lol.

This is your key misconception here, and is also something that I addressed in the fact that Sont prefaced the NGP announcement with the PlayStation Suite & PlayStation Certified games. The more lightweight games are being passed over to this system of distribution, similiarly to how PlayStation 3 handles Minis, and other downloadable titles that don't need to be utilizing the full capacity of the hardware that's requiring a dedicated system with precise specifications. That's the whole reason for making an extremely advanced portable system with the NGP, is because they're still not losing out on that easier-to-make games, which will be reaching a wider audience that will be more interested in them anyway. The whole press conference is very clearly showing that this is absolutely not what the portable systems are about.

It's not a misconception at all when this came from the mouths of developers themselves, not to mention the nature of their products, bro.

To quote you from just before this, "I'm not going to get excited for more of the same shit just with better graphics." If FFVII is remade in a version with graphics that allow it to be played at full capacity on the NGP, and the controls are the same, what exactly makes an NGP version of FFVII any less compelling? Not to mention, if anything that Hideo Kojima is illuding to with a complete experience for a game to transition from the PS3 to the NGP is possible, and they use the same models and environments, albiet at a slightly lesser polygon count when on the NGP, what exactly is bad about this? (In answer to Tets' question, my PSP connected to a full TV, so I don't see why the NGP would be utilizing that technology as well).

These things just ain't gonna pull off the same level of quality console games do, and my problem is that there's been a real huge focus on handhelds this entire generation, even titles that a lot of people would have wanted going to them, and winding up less than they could have been as a result.

It doesn't matter if they use the same models or data if the data is significantly lesser than what they could have been on a more powerful machine. They simply are not capable of the same feats.

Not at all. The Playstation is supposed to have a total lifespan of 10 years according to Sony. The ideas behind the NGP are going to strengthen that, by looking at the symbiotic relationship that they provide each other. In development terms, both consoles are similiar to develop for, and where a good number of games com across multi-platform as is, there will be a bigger initiative to create an NGP-compatible version of a game. It's a significant innovation in what handhelds are. If, rather than splitting up the developments between the PS3 and the NGP, they're similiar enough that the developers can essentially accomplish both simultaneously, it will encourage cross compatibility between the systems even moreso than the PSP & PS3 had, and it will be good for both systems overall.

Yeah I'm gonna chalk that up to bullshit too. The likelihood of this actually happening is minimal. There will still be PS3 games only for the ps3, and psp games only for the psp2. They said the same interconnect ability bullshit about the original psp and never pulled it off.

You're also immediately dismissing the fact that a good number of people enjoy and use handheld systems, and that more people would be interested, if you could bring a more complete gaming experience with you wherever you go. If you could have one that would offer a very similiar experience to what the PS3 currently brings in some basic capabilities, in addition to the other technologies that are involved, a lot of people would be interested in that. Like I stated before. I can't reiterate enough that the model that Sony set up here isn't splitting up resources as much as the current PSP / PS3 model is now.

How can I dismiss people's opinions when I'm only talking about my own? That doesn't make sense bro.

Ps3 development has always been split from PSP development and that is not likely to change. This might change something in Sony's internal studios, but third party development won't change, if it doesn't it won't be anything significant.

All I see them doing here is improving graphics and control schemes.

Yes, because, "yawn." is SO much proof of your valid opinion on the matter before now.

That ain't the post you responded to is it brah? Nor does my post refer to my previous posts, but my general stance on handheld gaming and that post in particular.

If that's the only good thing that you see, then you have clearly not looked into this enough to dismiss it so easily as "just another handheld with better graphics."

Assumptions make an ass out of you, and me bro. I've watched videos and read the articles. It's the same sensationalist bullshit sony always pulls claiming they'll do this and do that, and guess what, they don't.

Let's look at their history:

The Ps2 will have Toy Story 2 level graphics! never happened.

The PSP will usher in a new general of portable media and interconnect ability in games on ps3! never happened.

The PS3 will blow the 360 out of the water with new graphics technology and 4D graphics! never happened.

Sony is full of shit when it comes to these conferences about their products and outlining their features.

 

[Tennyo]

Interesting idea. In all honesty, I really don't think the physical media should die out. There's a tangibility to physical media, even something as paltry as the UMD. It's something physically solid to own which feels more like actual property than some digital bleeps and bloops on some silicon storage device.

I dunno, this seems to be something really personal for me as well.

I like owning something physical because then I can buy used games for cheaper, and also sell games that suck/I'm done playing.

I mean, why would anyone want to get rid of that? :/

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Now where did I say you did? They said it would be and I was responding to that. Remember how the PS2 was going to have Toy story 2 graphics? lol.

Where precisely are they claiming that it is as powerful as the PS3, that's something beyond a media grab. I don't see this being claimed anywhere, and since it's not true, it's a moot point, especially since there were playable models of them that showcase what their real capabilities.

It's not a misconception at all when this came from the mouths of developers themselves, not to mention the nature of their products, bro.

It's still a misconception on your part, when the development reasonings for this new system, and the games therein aren't for that reason. Again, splitting PlayStation Suite into a hardware-less model, and the NGP are looking at focusing on two very different types of games, that aren't what the previous handheld market has been doing.

These things just ain't gonna pull off the same level of quality console games do, and my problem is that there's been a real huge focus on handhelds this entire generation, even titles that a lot of people would have wanted going to them, and winding up less than they could have been as a result.

I have to agree with your second point here, and that's actually why I'm so excited about the NGP, because the development considerations for it and the PS3 are supposed to be so similiar and so easy to go between. That means that even if they stay NGP focused, there's going to be much less effort required to make it into a PS3 game as well, plus as the teams get more efficient at making games for NGP, they're also learning things that will help them to develop for the PS3, which isnt' the case with the current generation PSP. That's one of the main things that the game developers brought up. It's encouraging developers NOT to shy away from the PS3 by forcibly introducing them to a handheld system that's essentially going to have them be doing the same type of development requirements that they'd be looking at for a PS3 game. I highly doubt that SE will start primarily developing towards non-platform PlayStation Suite games, and instead of just working on PSP titles that will take their dev teams away from developing for the PS3, both of those teams will be able to work side by side.

I'm hoping that this eventually means that a good number of PS3 games will be able to transition from the PS3 to the NGP almost seamlessly, with a slight change in the graphical requirements. Just like gaming differences on a Desktop and a laptop, but one that you could seamlessly transition between by syncing the devices. Plus, the development methods should be similiar enough to allow something like this from what they've been describing. I'd much rather play parts of a good PS3 game I'm in the middle of at a slightly lower quality while away from home, than just being relinquished to another game entirely, and having no option but to put that game on hold. The lack of a seperate media format also supports this type of interaction. While not discussed greatly outside of Kojima's statements, I think that this is something that the NGP would really be able to benefit from. While it's not an option for ALL PS3 games, because of their sheer size, it's something worth considering.

It doesn't matter if they use the same models or data if the data is significantly lesser than what they could have been on a more powerful machine. They simply are not capable of the same feats.

Again, what I adressed above.

Yeah I'm gonna chalk that up to bullshit too. The likelihood of this actually happening is minimal. There will still be PS3 games only for the ps3, and psp games only for the psp2.

Except that the NGP is specifically NOT equipped with a separate form of media for it's games, so selling a physical disc and the cost associated therein is gone, plus the development similiarities between the systems are so close that it won't cost the game developers a lot more to develop for both systems simultaneously. Everything about this system seems to be reaching towards more completely utilizing the PS3 partnership that the PSP was working with.

They said the same interconnect ability bullshit about the original psp and never pulled it off.

Except for Remote Play, which works as described, and I've used several times. There's no reason to believe that the NGP won't have a much more powerful version of that relationship, especially given the reasons listed above.

Ps3 development has always been split from PSP development and that is not likely to change. This might change something in Sony's internal studios, but third party development won't change, if it doesn't it won't be anything significant.

All I see them doing here is improving graphics and control schemes.

Again, see my aforementioned points for the reasons why there is a lot of effort for the NGP to change and vastly improve this relationship. The last thing Sony needs to do is spread themselves thin in game development, which was what the PSP was doing to them (though they probably won't come right out and say that). The PlayStation Suite and the NGP are in place to build that bridge back, and fix the problems that you seem to have with portable system existing alongside consoles. The lighterweight developers are being pushed towards systems that are less focused on hardware, and PlayStation 3-specific development, whereas the NGP and PS3 development are as close to being hand in hand as I can imagine, without it being a TRUE handheld PS3.

That ain't the post you responded to is it brah? Nor does my post refer to my previous posts, but my general stance on handheld gaming and that post in particular.

I was responding to your general stance on handheld gaming, and not seeing the differences with the NGP that I've rather extensively listed.

Assumptions make an ass out of you, and me bro. I've watched videos and read the articles. It's the same sensationalist bullshit sony always pulls claiming they'll do this and do that, and guess what, they don't.

Let's look at their history:

The Ps2 will have Toy Story 2 level graphics! never happened.

The PSP will usher in a new general of portable media and interconnect ability in games on ps3! never happened.

The PS3 will blow the 360 out of the water with new graphics technology and 4D graphics! never happened.

Sony is full of shit when it comes to these conferences about their products and outlining their features.

A bold claim, but one that I don't believe was demonstrated, unlike the current features of the NGP.

Interconnectability between PS3 & PSP games is possible with Remote Play.

Even you said that the consoles yet haven't been used to their fullest potential, so it seems a little early to call that.

You're making a fine amount of assumptions yourself about what the NGP won't do.

I like owning something physical because then I can buy used games for cheaper, and also sell games that suck/I'm done playing.

I mean, why would anyone want to get rid of that? :/

Probably because of development costs, and other things that I mentioned before, plus it ensure that the money paid for the game goes to the game developers, and not to Gamestop. They still discount downloadable games at random, and over time. Happens all the time on the Playstation store.



X

 

[Max Payne]

I like owning something physical because then I can buy used games for cheaper, and also sell games that suck/I'm done playing.

I mean, why would anyone want to get rid of that? :/

Because developers want to ax the used and secondhand market so they can make more money.

Digital distribution makes it easier to control the sale/use of their products.

 

[Tennyo]

I'm not talking about the developers. I know why they want to ax it.

I'm talking about regular people. The ones who actually buy the games. It seems like everyone is so eager to move to a download-only platform, but what are they going to do with games they no longer play or games that suck?

Think about all the hard drive space or memory cards/sticks people will need to buy. :/

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I'm not talking about the developers. I know why they want to ax it.

I'm talking about regular people. The ones who actually buy the games. It seems like everyone is so eager to move to a download-only platform, but what are they going to do with games they no longer play or games that suck?

Think about all the hard drive space or memory cards/sticks people will need to buy. :/

I totally felt that way until I considered how many downloaded games I've installed on my PS3. The good thing about the PSN accounts is that you can delete and re-download anything you've purchased at any time. Over standard internet connections, that's not too bad, but I could see myself storing some of my favorite games on a specific memory card.


X

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Is Batman trying to become a new Vendel or something?

 

[Max Payne]

I'm not talking about the developers. I know why they want to ax it.

I'm talking about regular people. The ones who actually buy the games. It seems like everyone is so eager to move to a download-only platform, but what are they going to do with games they no longer play or games that suck?

Think about all the hard drive space or memory cards/sticks people will need to buy. :/

Fuck knows. Broadband isn't even widespread enough to make digital only a viable method.

Is Batman trying to become a new Vendel or something?

Sorry I have actual reasons for my opinions. But sure, let's go for it.

You can be the new username, you won't have to strain yourself too hard

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Both of you: Let's please quit with the Username/Vendel whatnotting before it starts, and just stay on topic.


X

 

[Joker]

With all due respect, you're doing some of that whatnotting yourself, albeit to a lesser extent.

And personally, I will believe Sony's statements when I see them come true.

 

[Tennyo]

I totally felt that way until I considered how many downloaded games I've installed on my PS3. The good thing about the PSN accounts is that you can delete and re-download anything you've purchased at any time. Over standard internet connections, that's not too bad, but I could see myself storing some of my favorite games on a specific memory card.


X

Then what do you do with games that suck? lol

Too bad you can't get your money back on something you downloaded. At least with a physical copy you could bring it to GameStop or wherever and get something for it.

 

[Username]

From what gathers, some good improvements on the whole. However I cannot suggest that I would be willing to part my cash on this as of yet, based on what happened with the psp, I purchased it, bought and enjoyed a few games on it, then went back to the ps2/ps3. I very much fear this will be the same outcome if I were to repeat the process with the new psp. This will be a great portable device, but will again not live up to what Sony are trying to sell it as.

 

[Max Payne]

I for one like collecting my shiny cases with fancy artwork and packaging.

 

[Joker]

Aren't you not supposed to be here?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

You can be the new username, you won't have to strain yourself too hard

Don't know or care who that is, so your insult is meaningless to me.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Then what do you do with games that suck? lol

Too bad you can't get your money back on something you downloaded. At least with a physical copy you could bring it to GameStop or wherever and get something for it.

Yeah, I totally understand what you mean, and there's very little to combat bad game rage on things that are download-only.

I for one like collecting my shiny cases with fancy artwork and packaging.

This is very true. I love my collector's edition stuff, but I figure that you might be able to get a version on a transferrable media memory card or something for Special Editions, since they typically cost more anyway, and the Special Edition content usually isn't returnable.


X

 

[Max Payne]

Where precisely are they claiming that it is as powerful as the PS3, that's something beyond a media grab. I don't see this being claimed anywhere, and since it's not true, it's a moot point, especially since there were playable models of them that showcase what their real capabilities.

What do you think "almost as powerful as the ps3" means?

It's still a misconception on your part, when the development reasonings for this new system, and the games therein aren't for that reason. Again, splitting PlayStation Suite into a hardware-less model, and the NGP are looking at focusing on two very different types of games, that aren't what the previous handheld market has been doing.

.....It's not a misconception at all.

I have to agree with your second point here, and that's actually why I'm so excited about the NGP, because the development considerations for it and the PS3 are supposed to be so similiar and so easy to go between. That means that even if they stay NGP focused, there's going to be much less effort required to make it into a PS3 game as well, plus as the teams get more efficient at making games for NGP, they're also learning things that will help them to develop for the PS3, which isnt' the case with the current generation PSP. That's one of the main things that the game developers brought up. It's encouraging developers NOT to shy away from the PS3 by forcibly introducing them to a handheld system that's essentially going to have them be doing the same type of development requirements that they'd be looking at for a PS3 game. I highly doubt that SE will start primarily developing towards non-platform PlayStation Suite games, and instead of just working on PSP titles that will take their dev teams away from developing for the PS3, both of those teams will be able to work side by side.

Building a game for the NGP then trying to carry it over to the ps3 will be easy if you just do a direct port, sure. But vice versa? No. The games will have to be stripped down a bit for the handheld.

I'm hoping that this eventually means that a good number of PS3 games will be able to transition from the PS3 to the NGP almost seamlessly, with a slight change in the graphical requirements. Just like gaming differences on a Desktop and a laptop, but one that you could seamlessly transition between by syncing the devices. Plus, the development methods should be similiar enough to allow something like this from what they've been describing. I'd much rather play parts of a good PS3 game I'm in the middle of at a slightly lower quality while away from home, than just being relinquished to another game entirely, and having no option but to put that game on hold. The lack of a seperate media format also supports this type of interaction. While not discussed greatly outside of Kojima's statements, I think that this is something that the NGP would really be able to benefit from. While it's not an option for ALL PS3 games, because of their sheer size, it's something worth considering.

It's not just graphics bro(which will still have a really noticeable difference), but data sizes too. A game can have a SHITLOAD of content on the ps3 due to the amount of data available, but on the NGP you're gonna need some serious compression methods, which will invariably affect quality to get that on the system.

Except that the NGP is specifically NOT equipped with a separate form of media for it's games, so selling a physical disc and the cost associated therein is gone, plus the development similiarities between the systems are so close that it won't cost the game developers a lot more to develop for both systems simultaneously. Everything about this system seems to be reaching towards more completely utilizing the PS3 partnership that the PSP was working with.

That just screams naive to me man. Developing on the Iphone with the UE3 isn't that different from developing for the 360, but those games still cost a lot of money to develop simultaneously, and you still have heavy considerations for the capabilities of the machines. No matter what the system or similarities in hardware or development environment it will never be easy or much cheaper.

Except for Remote Play, which works as described, and I've used several times. There's no reason to believe that the NGP won't have a much more powerful version of that relationship, especially given the reasons listed above.

I wasn't talking about remote play. Sony made a deliberate implication that there would cross play and interconnectivity in games on the ps3 and the psp. There is none. The most we got was having one game would unlock something in another, but there was never any deep relation between the gameplay.

Again, see my aforementioned points for the reasons why there is a lot of effort for the NGP to change and vastly improve this relationship. The last thing Sony needs to do is spread themselves thin in game development, which was what the PSP was doing to them (though they probably won't come right out and say that). The PlayStation Suite and the NGP are in place to build that bridge back, and fix the problems that you seem to have with portable system existing alongside consoles. The lighterweight developers are being pushed towards systems that are less focused on hardware, and PlayStation 3-specific development, whereas the NGP and PS3 development are as close to being hand in hand as I can imagine, without it being a TRUE handheld PS3.

I still see this as PR bullshit given the nonsense promises sony as made time and again, not to mention how that relationship will change very little.

Cryengine 3 made simulatenous development on the ps3, 360, and pc possible. But guess what? It's still a difficult process which requires a lot of time and investment in each different product from the console it's developed, which naturally takes a lot of money.

I was responding to your general stance on handheld gaming, and not seeing the differences with the NGP that I've rather extensively listed.

Except I addressed the so called capabilities of this new handheld abomination.

A bold claim, but one that I don't believe was demonstrated, unlike the current features of the NGP.

Oh? So you've seen a ps3 game that's been ported directly to a NGP with all of it's features, graphics, and content intact? I will believe it when I see it.

Interconnectability between PS3 & PSP games is possible with Remote Play.

There is no evidence of the direct relationship in gameplay through the psp and ps3 which sony spoke of back at e3.

Even you said that the consoles yet haven't been used to their fullest potential, so it seems a little early to call that.

Five years in, and everyone keeps saying we have only seen 50% of the ps3's power or 75, or 90. It's all the same bullshit with no real evidence of the original claim to be seen.

There's no reason to believe it will change.

You're making a fine amount of assumptions yourself about what the NGP won't do.

I'm only looking at the bullshit they've said, and done. I am merely forming an opinion based on what I know about game development, and Sony. Sony is known for bullshit at these conferences, so I don't see any reason I should buy their act this time. I will believe their bullshit when I see it. Sony has burned me 3 times now, and you just know this motherfucker is not going to be cheap. Look at how fucking expensive the 3ds is.

This is very true. I love my collector's edition stuff, but I figure that you might be able to get a version on a transferrable media memory card or something for Special Editions, since they typically cost more anyway, and the Special Edition content usually isn't returnable.

It's not just SEs, or CEs. I like collecting the games, the books, and packaging.

 

[Max Payne]

Don't know or care who that is, so your insult is meaningless to me.

It wasn't an insult(not to you anyway) oh mr perceptive.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

What do you think "almost as powerful as the ps3" means?

I think it means exactly that. Almost. Before you were saying that they said it was AS powerful as the PS3.

This thing obv isn't as powerful as an actual ps3, look at the tech demo for MGS4. It's just bullshit propaganda people are buying into as usual.

There's a big difference between being "as powerful" and "almost as powerful" especially when referring to a handheld's capabilities.

The whole point of the draw of handhelds is they can produce games faster with decent quality as opposed to consoles.

.....It's not a misconception at all.

The focus for the NGP is console-level quality that's portable. While it's not 100% capable of pulling off all of the advanced shaders, textures, & lighting systems that the console does, the environments and model data is most important. The other alterations are the same differences between graphic settings on PC games for the most part. That's what I'm talking about being a misconception. The PlayStation Suite is carrying the old model of portable games for Sony towards the audience that they most appeal to, while the NGP is moving to push things in a different direction.

Building a game for the NGP then trying to carry it over to the ps3 will be easy if you just do a direct port, sure. But vice versa? No. The games will have to be stripped down a bit for the handheld.

True, but you're still looking at game developer raising the quality of their games as a whole, across the board. I don't know how much of the game content would have to be stripped down, versus what could be accomplished just with graphics settings between versions like is done with PC games.

It's not just graphics bro(which will still have a really noticeable difference), but data sizes too. A game can have a SHITLOAD of content on the ps3 due to the amount of data available, but on the NGP you're gonna need some serious compression methods, which will invariably affect quality to get that on the system.

I don't think so. I've downloaded quite a few full PS3 games onto my system, and while I don't recall any official announcement as to the total memory available on the NGP, I don't think that you'd have to compress something in a digital format to make it work on the NGP, depending on how the conversion works. If it's functioning fully on flash-based memory, I'd expect it to have a significant amount.

That just screams naive to me man. Developing on the Iphone with the UE3 isn't that different from developing for the 360, but those games still cost a lot of money to develop simultaneously, and you still have heavy considerations for the capabilities of the machines. No matter what the system or similarities in hardware or development environment it will never be easy or much cheaper.

That's not a very good comparison. You're talking about an iPhone and a 360, which run of much different Operating Systems on the back end, which is much more important than the game engine they're using. That's a lot of software consideration, based on the back-end operating system architecture moreso than hardware restrictions. The PS3 and 360 have games that come out for both systems, but the PS3 architechture is much different to develop for than the 360. The PS3 and NGP are built utilizing the same basic back end architecture, because they're both Sony systems built with the purpose of being compatible. I'm speaking purely from the comments of the game developers themselves when they're talking about how easy it is to move PS3 content to the NGP. From looking at that from a development standpoint.

I wasn't talking about remote play. Sony made a deliberate implication that there would cross play and interconnectivity in games on the ps3 and the psp. There is none. The most we got was having one game would unlock something in another, but there was never any deep relation between the gameplay.

Ah, ok. Misunderstanding on my part. The Resistance game was the only thing that I remember, but your point is entirely correct there.

I still see this as PR bullshit given the nonsense promises sony as made time and again, not to mention how that relationship will change very little.

Nothing much can be said, as this is pretty much opinion from both of us, and we'll have to wait for real release information before going into this much more than speculation.

Cryengine 3 made simulatenous development on the ps3, 360, and pc possible. But guess what? It's still a difficult process which requires a lot of time and investment in each different product from the console it's developed, which naturally takes a lot of money.

I'm still going to stick with the fact that the back-end architecture of the NGP and the PS3 being similiar is going to have the biggest impact on this. It's like Mac vs. Windows games, as compared to developing for Windows on a Laptop vs. Windows on a Desktop.

Oh? So you've seen a ps3 game that's been ported directly to a NGP with all of it's features, graphics, and content intact? I will believe it when I see it.

E3 this year, Kojima's stated that he's going to be announcing it. He talked about it briefly during the conference.

I'm only looking at the bullshit they've said, and done. I am merely forming an opinion based on what I know about game development, and Sony. Sony is known for bullshit at these conferences, so I don't see any reason I should buy their act this time. I will believe their bullshit when I see it. Sony has burned me 3 times now, and you just know this motherfucker is not going to be cheap. Look at how fucking expensive the 3ds is.

I don't blame you at all, man. What I know is that their last product Move DOES do everything that they claimed when they had a working demo of it, and the working models for the NGP makes me MUCH more confident that its capabilities aren't just smoke & mirrors and a bunch of uptalking. If it wasn't for that I'd be right in the skeptical-as-hell position as you are.



X

 

[Max Payne]

I think it means exactly that. Almost. Before you were saying that they said it was AS powerful as the PS3.



There's a big difference between being "as powerful" and "almost as powerful" especially when referring to a handheld's capabilities.

It's an implication that it will be close, which means about the same. Which I am not seeing.

The focus for the NGP is console-level quality that's portable. While it's not 100% capable of pulling off all of the advanced shaders, textures, & lighting systems that the console does, the environments and model data is most important. The other alterations are the same differences between graphic settings on PC games for the most part. That's what I'm talking about being a misconception. The PlayStation Suite is carrying the old model of portable games for Sony towards the audience that they most appeal to, while the NGP is moving to push things in a different direction.

Environments and model data are made up of advanced shaders, textures, lighting and polygons man.

True, but you're still looking at game developer raising the quality of their games as a whole, across the board. I don't know how much of the game content would have to be stripped down, versus what could be accomplished just with graphics settings between versions like is done with PC games.

Console games tend to be pretty stripped down when compared to their pc versions, seems like it'd be a similar relationship.

I don't think so. I've downloaded quite a few full PS3 games onto my system, and while I don't recall any official announcement as to the total memory available on the NGP, I don't think that you'd have to compress something in a digital format to make it work on the NGP, depending on how the conversion works. If it's functioning fully on flash-based memory, I'd expect it to have a significant amount.

There's gonna have to be a lot of compression going on, because given the size of the thing, I can't see it having much storage space compared to a bluray.

I'm still going to stick with the fact that the back-end architecture of the NGP and the PS3 being similiar is going to have the biggest impact on this. It's like Mac vs. Windows games, as compared to developing for Windows on a Laptop vs. Windows on a Desktop.

John Carmack stated that the archeticture and development environment on the pc and 360 were heavily similar which made development and porting easier, but I haven't seen that play a very important role in the quality of ports. PC games are still higher quality, and 360 games still cost money to make simultaneously.

E3 this year, Kojima's stated that he's going to be announcing it. He talked about it briefly during the conference.

Kojima, the king of BS and broken promises. Fact is we still haven't seen it.

I don't blame you at all, man. What I know is that their last product Move DOES do everything that they claimed when they had a working demo of it, and the working models for the NGP makes me MUCH more confident that its capabilities aren't just smoke & mirrors and a bunch of uptalking. If it wasn't for that I'd be right in the skeptical-as-hell position as you are.

Move was an addon, not a whole new platform though.

 

[Max Payne]

wtf piece of my post are missing

anyway

That's not a very good comparison. You're talking about an iPhone and a 360, which run of much different Operating Systems on the back end, which is much more important than the game engine they're using. That's a lot of software consideration, based on the back-end operating system architecture moreso than hardware restrictions. The PS3 and 360 have games that come out for both systems, but the PS3 architechture is much different to develop for than the 360. The PS3 and NGP are built utilizing the same basic back end architecture, because they're both Sony systems built with the purpose of being compatible. I'm speaking purely from the comments of the game developers themselves when they're talking about how easy it is to move PS3 content to the NGP. From looking at that from a development standpoint.

I've read that operating systems aren't as important as the game engine when it comes to development. It's the framework and backbone of the game system and all of its assets. That said, Epic stated that developing for the Iphone using the UE3 isn't that different from the 360 and PC. I think this was said about Infinity Blade was it?

 

[Hisako]

I could hazard a guess and suggest that UE3 was probably designed with multi-platforming in mind.

EDIT: Also, it's nicer to be reselling your unwanted UMDs on eBay rather than deleting stuff or selling "some guy's Pro Duo that he doesn't want the stuff on it anymore".

 

[Max Payne]

I could hazard a guess and suggest that UE3 was probably designed with multi-platforming in mind.

It was, but most big budget engines are these days.