Podcast discussion

[Pixel]

Thats why I started off doing feature discussions. They keep the podcast focussed. I know its not perfect, but it at least was relevant.

Sorry, I dont mean to be mean or anything, but when im sitting in on the podcast, my mind wanders when things go off topic, so I stay pretty quiet... i just get lost in the convo lol. So this just didnt hold my attention at all.

Also, presentation-wise, I could have given the intro audio to mix in if I had known this was going ahead. And right from the start there is alot of shuffling, bg noise and technical problems that really should have been sorted. :/

 

[Lex]

I'd like to join in on the next podcast guys (really this time, carlie keeps asking me about half an hour after I've gone to bed) whenever it's due to happen. If we set a concrete date and time I'll make sure I'm awake/available, whether I sleep beforehand or not.

 

[Fangu]

Fangu, might it be worth setting a default featured image for the front page so this doesn't happen in future? There seems to be a plugin for just that purpose, though I don't know whether it would create any conflicts. If we end up using it, I'll create or find a generic image that can be used as the default for all post types.

Yes. Definitely. But I do see it as a Minor fault, because we must be able to expect our users to follow a minimum amount of rules. We do not have 50 people working on this page, more like 5, and I feel it's a waste of energy to spend 100 hours of work covering every possible leaking hole (this is probably my Norwegian brain working, sorry) when it takes 1 hour to write an instruction list. So while the nerd in me thinks this is a brilliant idea, my sensible side says it's a waste of time. Learn to set a decent featured image or gtfo (Although when I do change it to 16:9, I'll write in a rule that says if no image is set or no image can be taken from the post, then use picture x. And for the luls I'll set it to an image saying THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE FORGOT TO SET A FEATURED IMAGE and then a link to an explanation to where you set it )

Also plugins is a last resort. They often sound like brilliant solutions, but remember they are often written by hobby programmers who tend to abandon them after 6 months, and they never get updated. (Much like I work, ha ha cough)

Also I see that the little excerpt hack is at work on the front page again, this time pushing "related articles" to the left. Okay I am bumping that error to Fix First. <-- again this is demonstrating how a plugin can crash shit.

Edit: Why the fuck is it outputting "15" at the start of the excerpt? I tried putting in the more tag in the post, but that didn't do shit. Ohjesusfuckingchrist. (there was something here, moved to a different thread, tech stuff)

 

[Lex]

Just posting here that I changed the title of the podcast newspost. Will probably need to shorten it again, depends on how it looks when there's another FP post.

 

[Flintlock]

Tres: it's just my opinion, but I think that if you only have half an hour of relevant things to talk about, then the podcast should be half an hour long. Or if you want to make it slightly more relaxed, then 40 minutes. I'm not completely against off-topic conversation; I just think it should be kept in check. Let it develop naturally while you're talking about other things, but don't dedicate whole sections of the podcast to it.

The difference between a podcast and the forum is the audience. I'm interested to see what you think about certain films, or what's been going on in your life generally, because I've got to know you a bit (though in truth, I don't know half of you half as well as I should like) and consider some of you my friends. The intended audience for the podcast is, I think, much wider: it's everyone who visits our site and has an interest in Final Fantasy.

I did not mean my criticism as a personal attack against anybody, and I hope it wasn't taken that way.

 

[Lex]

I haven't had the chance to listen to it yet, so it really depends how much of it was about Pacific Rim, which no matter what way you look at it is off-topic conversation. A little bit of that is OK IMO, just not if it's half the podcast.

I realise that FF geekery led us here, and that most people also have geekery in other areas (see: all of us and ATLA, Shademp's fascination with My Little Pony, me and any supernatural/ sci-fi TV show ever made, etc) but IMO the podcast should absolutely stick to games (general games is OK) but within that it should also stick to FF. The theme of our site is FFVII and random movies that popped up at Comic-Con don't have a place under that banner, even though we might all find them interesting.

Another thing related to that: Comic-Con and the whole convention thing in general is an incredibly American concept - it's really only started becoming more known here in recent years. Europeans that aren't privy to these things (those of us that aren't members of a board etc) are very unlikely to know what it is, so half of that podcast could potentially not make sense outside the North American bubble.

That's my feedback anyway, I'll have some more when I listen to the whole thing. So far I just think we need to at the very least keep it gaming centric, otherwise we should rename it "entertainment this week [in America]".

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You guys do make good points -- particularly about the length of the recording and how familiar the audience may be with something like Comic Con -- though I would argue that "Pacific Rim" at the very least deserved attention (more than we gave it, really) because of all the anime/game/mecha/general Japanesey influence.

And one of the main characters is named "Mako," so there. =P

 

[Shademp]

I apologize for commenting despite not listening to the podcasts, but do you ever discuss recently active TLS threads in the podcast?

In the case of right now the relevant FFVII threads would be "Locations IRL that evoke FFVII", "Does the use of Materia *actually* drain the Planet's spirit energy?", "Favorite FFVII Fanart" etc.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Not a bad idea. We haven't directly discussed threads like that, no. Content that has been discussed in recent threads, yes (e.g. stuff related to Lightning Returns or E3 happenings), but not anything like that.

It's a good idea. =)

 

[Geostigma]

Tres: it's just my opinion, but I think that if you only have half an hour of relevant things to talk about, then the podcast should be half an hour long. Or if you want to make it slightly more relaxed, then 40 minutes. I'm not completely against off-topic conversation; I just think it should be kept in check. Let it develop naturally while you're talking about other things, but don't dedicate whole sections of the podcast to it.

The difference between a podcast and the forum is the audience. I'm interested to see what you think about certain films, or what's been going on in your life generally, because I've got to know you a bit (though in truth, I don't know half of you half as well as I should like) and consider some of you my friends. The intended audience for the podcast is, I think, much wider: it's everyone who visits our site and has an interest in Final Fantasy.

I did not mean my criticism as a personal attack against anybody, and I hope it wasn't taken that way.

I slightly disagree.

Personally I love when pod casts go off topic and the hosts just talk about things they love , hate or love to hate. It just seems all the more real.
Honestly I cant think of many podcasts that keep it strictly on topic, especially the interview ones.

I recall a podcast where Chris Hardwick and Will wheton hit up Valve studios to talk to Gabe, he had a big list of questions which mostly got thrown out the window just because of all of the great and natural discussion that came out of there shared interests.

Or listening to Kevin Smith start to talk about Daredevil and ending up talking about his childhood collection of pet kryptonite rocks.
If these guys can pull it off with a seriously much larger audience I dont see why TLS cant do it with its smaller dedicated audience.

Having a center point to return to here and there is always a good idea, but I dont believe these pod casts should be heavily edited. Im personally content just listening to the banter and not necessarily the subject matter myself.

Im not saying make it a free for all to say what ever you want lol, but I personally think the direction the podcast is going and has had for the last several entries has been in all honesty pretty spot on and faithful to what most podcasts are.

At the end of the day if it catches on people listening in are more interested in the people talking then what there talking about

 

[Flintlock]

Fair enough; I guess we want different things out of our podcasts. My guess, though, would be that people are probably willing to listen to Chris Hardwick, Wil Wheaton and Gabe Newell blather on about whatever because they are well-known personalities, and that the same doesn't apply to relative nobodies like us. Not yet, anyway: maybe after a dozen podcasts with a settled line-up we'd enjoy the same relationship with our listeners. We don't have a settled line-up, though. We've had:

1: "Pixel, AvecAloes, Ryushikaze, Tennyo and myself [ForceStealer]"
2: "Pixel, Ryushikaze, Carlie, and Trainer Red"
3: "Ryu, Carlie, Gabe, Pixel and I (TresDias)"
4: "Tennyo, Carlie, Tres, and Me (Ryushikaze)"

At the very least, we should have the same host for each episode. I don't know who that should be, but we ought to be able to decide between us. We could ask Pixel to act as a producer, even if he doesn't want to speak, because he clearly has the necessary experience to do that. Then there could be one "permanent" guest - like many chat shows and podcasts have - who could step into the host's role if they are unavailable, and one or two rotating guest slots, which people should sign up for if there is something they want to discuss, not just because they are friends with the host and live in a convenient time zone (aside from Pixel, there is yet to be a European on the pod).

I've said some of that before. I think I've said that I'll stop banging on about it before too. And I will, if I'm alone in my vision for the pod. But at the moment it seems like there is an ideas vacuum - Shademp brought up a good one a few posts ago, but that was the exception - without anyone else guiding it in a clear direction. Who will step up?

 

[Fangu]

My guess, though, would be that people are probably willing to listen to Chris Hardwick, Wil Wheaton and Gabe Newell blather on about whatever because they are well-known personalities, and that the same doesn't apply to relative nobodies like us.

I see your point, but I think they are, actually - willing to listening to Average Joes and Janes rant about random stuff. When I started streaming I didn't think anything I'd ever say would be interesting to anyone, but somehow, it is. People keep coming back to listen to me rant about how I see stuff in in XII, and listen to me talking about the decisions I make while playing, and there's nothing special about me. I'm not even very good at the game, and I certainly don't keep it on topic all the time either - very often (Lex and) I end up chatting/ ranting about stuff that is completely irrelevant even to Final Fantasy. But I think that's the thing - people like to hear what other, random people think about random stuff. They like feeling that connection. It's what makes it a personal experience, and different from the other x amounts of professional things that are out there.

TLS is a hobby project, and it IS a personal experience. As long as this is a totally non-profit thing, I don't see the need to make it overly professional, even if a certain level of professionalism is wanted, expected and needed.

That being said, I probably wouldn't listen to a podcast if it crosses over too much to listening to 'friends talking on Skype'. Then I'd rather talk to my own friends on Skype I haven't heard the latest podcast yet. But I remember enjoying Carlie, Gabe and Ryu's Kingdom Hearts rant that ended up being a general rant about similar games, or something - I enjoyed that natural off topicism, but I agree that at some point, the host has to pull it back to something at least semi off topic.

 

[Pixel]

I would recommend not using built in mics. I mean, within seconds of this one starting theres alot of noise. I dont want anyone to spend a load of money on this, but there are affordable mics that sound better than that.

 

[Geostigma]

I see your point, but I think they are, actually - willing to listening to Average Joes and Janes rant about random stuff. When I started streaming I didn't think anything I'd ever say would be interesting to anyone, but somehow, it is. People keep coming back to listen to me rant about how I see stuff in in XII, and listen to me talking about the decisions I make while playing, and there's nothing special about me. I'm not even very good at the game, and I certainly don't keep it on topic all the time either - very often (Lex and) I end up chatting/ ranting about stuff that is completely irrelevant even to Final Fantasy. But I think that's the thing - people like to hear what other, random people think about random stuff. They like feeling that connection. It's what makes it a personal experience, and different from the other x amounts of professional things that are out there.

TLS is a hobby project, and it IS a personal experience. As long as this is a totally non-profit thing, I don't see the need to make it overly professional, even if a certain level of professionalism is wanted, expected and needed.

That being said, I probably wouldn't listen to a podcast if it crosses over too much to listening to 'friends talking on Skype'. Then I'd rather talk to my own friends on Skype I haven't heard the latest podcast yet. But I remember enjoying Carlie, Gabe and Ryu's Kingdom Hearts rant that ended up being a general rant about similar games, or something - I enjoyed that natural off topicism, but I agree that at some point, the host has to pull it back to something at least semi off topic.

Pretty much this lol.

Fair enough; I guess we want different things out of our podcasts. My guess, though, would be that people are probably willing to listen to Chris Hardwick, Wil Wheaton and Gabe Newell blather on about whatever because they are well-known personalities,

This is a fair statement to make.
But I have always enjoyed the saying (though ill butcher it lol) ,
"No one cares what you have to say if they dont care who you are", the only way to get people to care is to be yourself. To have a formulaic, edited and almost strictly on topic discussion... is to robotic? (for lack of a better word)

To me it just comes off as quick, dry and boring.
Going back to what Franguuuu pointed out, theres alot of random people out there that just want to listen to someone. Either to agree or disagree with them but more often then not, and especially with podcasts, is not the topic that there for its for the personality that they like. Usually its not because there fans of some celeb but because they find there point of view on arbitrary things interesting.

I really dont know who Joe Rogen is very much, but god damn I love his podcasts and I know a ton of people who share that opinion.
Or for that matter had no clue who Marc Marron was before I discovered his pod cast, turned out he was a comedian lol.

Going back to something I forgot to bring up..

then the podcast should be half an hour long. Or if you want to make it slightly more relaxed, then 40 minutes.

Yes terribly shopped quote, i swear its not so that i can pull something out of context. But.
Thats incredibly short by podcast standards =/

The point of podcasts isnt to sit there and dedicate 30 minutes completely to the cast, there for having in the background or on a commute, something to backtrack through a few times. Podcasts by and large are long and honestly 30-40 minutes really isnt enough at all.

Ill post about the rest of your posts points in a bit after a bit more thinking.

 

[Lex]

Fangu said it better than I did. Essentially naturally going off topic is good and wanted and stuff, and makes it better IMO if it segues into natural discussion about something. But I really really don't think making a large chunk of the podcast about movies is the way to go. Mention that other random stuff, talk about it for a bit, but it can't be a focus (IMO).

Setting a featured VII or at least FF related topic from the board is probably a good idea (such as what was happening before) then natural chat about general gaming is nifty. Then it's not really the end of the world if that naturally leads into the mention of a movie or something, but that shouldn't be the goal going in, and it shouldn't be a conversation that lasts for too long.

I honestly like it more natural sounding (see Fangu's stream) because it feels a bit more personal, rather than robotic "so what do you think about this person X", "well person Y, I feel one blah blah blah" and it makes for undue hilarity

But a bit more order is probably in... order?

 

[Flintlock]

I feel like I must listen to completely different podcasts to everyone else, because the bulk of mine are 30-45 minutes long. I have only one subcription that regularly puts out podcasts of an hour or more, and I've actually stopped listening to it. My favourite podcast is usually 40 minutes, released twice a week, and they always manage to fit in plenty of unscripted discussion. Maybe I'm just projecting my own preferences onto everyone else, heh.

 

[Geostigma]

Well said Lex,
I think over all the idea here is there needs to be balance. As I said earlier it being a free for all is a bad idea, but it being edited down to ontopic only/mostly is also a bad idea imo.

@Flint, I do agree consistency is key. Ofcourse time constraints can be difficult to pull off a consistent cast but we should strive to atleast get familiar voices in the pod cast as often as possible.

Im not to sure atm how I feel regarding having a bit of a Radio show cast set up (producer, perm guest ect.) but it could work and it sorta feels like its taking that route as well.

I think it would be kinda neat to hand off the role of host from cast to cast to keep things fresh, but then again on the flip side is that having a experienced host who knows when to cut the convo to the next subject would be very ideal...

Personally the way its developing now on its own and naturally and seems very spot on. I can listen to the TLS cast and then listen to like Smodcast and not really hear a huge difference in regards to format and style. Its very spot on imo.


That said i wish there was a dedicated after pod cast chat lol. Theres so many times im listening where I think of something, or disagree or what ever and just want to voice my opinion and as far as I know dont really have a natural place to talk about it.

The second half of most pod casts is the comment section right under it and thats something that seems to be somewhat lacking (atleat on forum index) here.

edit:

@Flint the majority of the ones i listen to and have heard in the past easily break the 1 hour mark, many of which average out to 2 hour pod casts.

 

[Lex]

I've listened to a few podcasts in my time, but the only one I remember the length of was Pottercast (The Leaky Cauldron Podcast) back before the Harry Potter series was finished. Those were usually in the ballpark of 1-2 hours and I listened to the whole thing every week. I'm not fussed about the timing to be honest.

@Mic stuff, I'm hoping my turtle beach headset sounds good, but I suppose I'll find out. I had a silver desk mic for PC years ago but I've no idea where it's gone. If there's a lot of background noise maybe people could get a mic program set up to block out background noise (it doesn't output the mic sound unless the noise level is above a certain decibel i.e. your voice).

 

[Shademp]

My personal taste aligns closer with Flintlock's, but it appears that the majority here like podcasts that are longer than 30 minutes and which lets the "average joe/joline" speak a lot. Each to their own. =)

 

[Flintlock]

That said i wish there was a dedicated after pod cast chat lol. Theres so many times im listening where I think of something, or disagree or what ever and just want to voice my opinion and as far as I know dont really have a natural place to talk about it.

The second half of most pod casts is the comment section right under it and thats something that seems to be somewhat lacking (atleat on forum index) here.

This is definitely something I'd like to see. I've brought it up before, too:

My idea would be to open [the last section of the podcast] up by reading out a listener's comment or question, after which a discussion of the topic they brought up would take place. Then the host would encourage listeners to submit something for the next podcast, thank all the guests, and sign off. That would make it feel more interactive.

I guess you saw that, seeing as you thanked it. Again, though, I don't really know who's in charge of making the decisions for these podcasts, so this could all be falling on deaf ears.

 

[Lex]

I an tell you're really jonesing for an answer to that question Flint, but I think you also know that there isn't one. It was Pixel's baby, then Tres took charge, then I think Ryu did the same. So it looks like a collaborative effort at this point, unless Pixel fancies stepping back up to take control of it.

But I don't think there's a large need for that, as long as some key guidelines are set out. I'm certainly not in charge of the podcasts (so far, I've had nothing at all to do with any of them) and I don't want to be. It's someone elses baby, but I'm happy to help out from time to time.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I certainly don't feel any ownership over the thing, I want to be clear about that. I love the concept of us having one, though, because I love podcasts, and I love having discussions like this and geeking out with my fellow geeks.

I can't speak for everyone in our audience or even on TLS, but other than these podcasts, I don't actually have an opportunity to sit down with several people who have similar interests and just go into spoken geekgasm mode. Doing these is fun as hell, I want to be involved with as many of them as possible, and I hope at least half of the people who listen get half as much enjoyment out of listening.

Anywho, trying to answer your questions, Flint -- planning out the topics of the podcasts has certainly been a collaborative effort, and I think it works best that way. I can understand the appeal of having a "guiding vision," but to me that runs the risk of excluding too much else of value.

Going back to what I was saying a couple of paragraphs ago, this is a hobby (that some of us don't have enough time for as is). It's not a professional, commercial production and doesn't fully have to come off like one. It doesn't need that stilted, sleek "Apple" feel.

I will say, though, that I think Ryu has a great "host voice" and that he does a good job of recognizing when the current line of discussion has run its course, then guiding it to another topic in the lineup, etc.

My idea would be to open [the last section of the podcast] up by reading out a listener's comment or question, after which a discussion of the topic they brought up would take place. Then the host would encourage listeners to submit something for the next podcast, thank all the guests, and sign off. That would make it feel more interactive.

This is a great idea that could easily be incorporated. I'll make sure it gets in there next time.

That said i wish there was a dedicated after pod cast chat lol. Theres so many times im listening where I think of something, or disagree or what ever and just want to voice my opinion and as far as I know dont really have a natural place to talk about it.

The second half of most pod casts is the comment section right under it and thats something that seems to be somewhat lacking (atleat on forum index) here.

Perhaps future news posts for the uploads can direct listeners to the forum to discuss it, ask questions, etc.


Honestly, I feel like we have a solid foundation already. We just need a few simple, consistent tweaks to make it into the podcast it needs to be.

And, hey, that's what these early experimental steps are all about. I mean, we've not even done half a dozen of these yet. It's not quite perfected. But we'll get there, and these discussions and all this feedback is how we're going to do it.

 

[Flintlock]

And, hey, that's what these early experimental steps are all about. I mean, we've not even done half a dozen of these yet. It's not quite perfected. But we'll get there, and these discussions and all this feedback is how we're going to do it.

Excellent

If we go down the permanent host route, I think we could do a lot worse than getting Marcus to do the job. I enjoyed listening to him chat with Lex on the latter's "FFVII in a day" stream. While I had been struggling to fill the airtime towards the end of my stint, he came on and sounded relaxed, confident and chatty straight away. Plus: he has a cool accent. Plus plus: he has a great headset; his voice was crystal clear. I don't know if he has any interest in doing it whatsoever - he's not the most regular poster here, after all - but I thought I'd mention him anyway

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

So, it's probably time we start organizing the next one. The one published this month was actually recorded around the middle of last month, so we're technically behind.

I think there's enough material to start a discussion. There's the stuff revealed about the defunct Final Fantasy: Fortress, there's a little more about X's new audio drama, we can discuss the thread about places that remind you of FFVII in real life, we can discuss the Kickstarter project that Uematsu is attached to -- and I'm sure we can squeeze in a miscellaneous topic or two.

Who's interested and when are you available? I could be available as early as tonight or tomorrow night. Possibly Friday night as well. Sometime Sunday would be good too.

Anyone who hasn't participated before but is interested, please speak up. Also, everyone feel free to make suggestions for what we discuss.

 

[ForceStealer]

I could probably do tonight, actually, if enough people were around. Possibly tomorrow, too