SPOILERS Predictions for Part 2? (*Open Spoilers for Part 1*)

[Kain424]

Cheers to that.

 

[ultima786]

As time goes on, I feel more and more like a jerk about sentiments such as yours, @Kain424 -- because I become increasingly dismissive of these feelings from folks I love and respect. XD

I want everyone to be real about it: we were not only never going to get the FFVII you describe, but I'd wager my bank account that most of you didn't want the FFVII you describe either.

You didn't want to see the Tiny Bronco scenario from the original game.

You didn't want the Mr. Dolphin scenario.

You didn't want Cait Sith to muscle his way into the team on the basis of seeing how a fortune played out, then for Cloud to be like "But who was spy??"

You didn't want Cloud snowboarding a short time after Aerith was murdered.

You didn't want the nation of Wutai to only ever be represented by this one village on a handful of screens.

You didn't want Yuffie and Vincent to be optional.

You probably didn't want winning a race on giant birds to be justification for release from prison within hours of murdering half a dozen people at a theme park.

You wanted Dio to put on some fucking clothes.

Now, we've all heard the reasons none of that counts as undermining what FFVII is or drawing the Ship of Theseus metaphor into play -- e.g. because

-- but that allowance never seems to get applied to the sensibilities and mindsets of the people making the thing. Even if we allow for the ship to still be the Ship of Theseus with the other factors taken into account, the passage of time within the creative well has to be taken into account as much as the technology that would be siphoning from there, doesn't it?

And what of the passage of time for the buckets -- i.e. us?

This is a really great post. There are a number of absurd plot elements to FF7 that we simply ignored for various reasons. Perhaps it was just a time when video games were taken less seriously, or perhaps we were younger back then, or perhaps because there were larger plot elements that were handled soooo well - like Sephiroth being handled like Jaws (mysteriously). Ultimately, Remake is a better narrative thus far. It is better handled. It's world building is better. It is more consistent. It's localization is far better. The freaking characters are better in Remake by far.

The problem for many of us is, there were certain sacred cows that were not handled as well in Remake as they were in OG, like Sephiroth's presence or lack thereof. Or for example, the very slow build of magical realism in OG rather than the dumptruck of Remake's chapter 18. Or that platefall in OG had a more frightening presentation with Pres Shinra looming over with Opera music playing in the background. And I think this feeling is sensible. But overall, I think if you honestly look at OG carefully, it'll be clear that most of Remake is handled with more care in its narrative so far, with less misgivings than OG. Some of Remake's misgivings are large, even if far fewer.

 

[LNK]

Well, that's because it was marketed and sold as THE remake. I think those people feel conned. Although I would caution those people it may be too early to tell.

I've actually been thinking about this. Was the game marketed as a 1:1 remake? Or did people assume it was going to be a 1:1 remake based on our assumptions of what we think of as a remake? I'll admit, I did not expect to see something like the whispers and that ending. With that said, I don't mind it because they made it work. And the game still seems to be on a path that follows the the main OG story points. Like you said, it is too early to tell though.

 

[Roundhouse]

My updated predictions:

- Yuffie awakens Genesis during Intergrade and a disguised Zack arrives to save her. Zack and Genesis then catch up over apples and tea.

- They decide to form a new team...Genesis, Weiss, Zack, Yuffie, Biggs. (No one has the heart to tell Biggs that it makes no difference if he's there or not.)

- Cloud starts to tell the Kalm story but is interrupted when Zack walks in saying 'actualllyyyy...'. Zack takes over telling the story, and after a few minutes Sephiroth interrupts with his own 'actualllyyyy....'. Meanwhile Cloud is forgotten in the corner, and he eventually leaves to drink at the hotel bar.

- Sephiroth offers Cloud a choice. Either let meteor hit or save Aerith. He can only choose one...within 7 seconds. Cloud chooses Aerith.

- Meteor hits and everyone hates Cloud for his decision. Even Genesis is like 'dude, wow'. Sephiroth gathers the power from the meteor hit and becomes even more powerful than his OG endgame self.

- Cloud is thrown in Corel Prison for his crimes against the planet.

- Genesis sacrifices himself to wound Sephiroth in a blaze of glory that makes him a fan favourite.

- Zack defeats Roth but then fades away like a certain other FF character, as Aerith tries to hug him.

- The End!

 

[Clement Rage]

I just assume most marketing is misleading by default.

In terms of which is better, it's difficult to compare, because capabilities are so different now. I don't think it's quite fair to say remake is handled with more care, so much as the technologies provide more opportunities.

To take Resident Evil 2 as a successful remake, the production values and storytelling are obviously much better than the original, but I did find that some things were a bit weaker, plotwise.

RPD has a bathroom now...but the secret passage to the sewers is now in the middle of the main hall and in the parking lot, the two places that will never be empty in a busy police station. In the 1998 version, these passages were in the Chief's office, and in the cells, which are actually pretty logical places if you assume experiments on prisoners.

For the original version of FF7, Shinra HQ security was noted to be light, because AVALANCHE was assumed dead in the pillar. In the Remake, security is especially heavy, but they carve through it easily...which narratively does two different things.

Lots of these things depend on your assumptions. The pillarfall was not less effective for me because I always assumed that there had been an evacuation of some people, while for others the impact was softened by the devs showing an evacuation.

I thought it was really stupid for Tseng to spot Aeris from a helicopter in the middle of a burning town of 50,000, so that hurt my story. Someone who always assumed that would be less affected.

 

[Fiz]

The final twist will be Sephiroth x Aerith and Cloud x Andrea leaving Tifa and Zack shellshocked, drowning their sorrows in a bar in Wall Market.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

The final twist will be Sephiroth x Aerith and Cloud x Andrea leaving Tifa and Zack shellshocked, drowning their sorrows in a bar in Wall Market.

Tifa x Cid and Zack x Cait?

 

[Fiz]

Tifa x Cid and Zack x Cait?

That will be the post credits bonus scene showing the following morning after.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

I think I post this here to because why not?
So regarding EoC Sephiroth and where the story is going from here:
I don't get the feeling that the Sephiroth we see stalking Cloud through out the remake tries to break him, I think it's the opposite. The vibe I get and what others already said is that this Sephiroth knows about a future event that might be threatening his own existence/the planets and because of that he needs Cloud as his ally since at this point Cloud has proven himself to be on pair with him hence why he treats him so different now, he doesn't want him broken or destroyed he wants Cloud to reach his full potential for the task ahead.
So everything will be all right? I mean Seph is now a good guy, right??

...Well seems like Sephiroth is convince that Cloud can only achieve becoming stronger through suffering and despair
And you already can see that theory demonstrated in practice in the last boss battle.

We know that the last boss fight was suppose to mirror the OG boss battle against Sephiroth, we also got told that the idea behind your buddies appearing one after the other was suppose to contrast the original where it was the opposite where your party got smaller with time. We were also shown that the team was OP as fuck, it was like someone loaded their level 99 versions into the remake. So what happens at the edge of creation with Sephiroth? He and Cloud have almost shot for shot their last battle from the the og but this time Cloud loses. Same scene. Same powers. But Cloud still lost this time against Sephiroth. So why is that? I think Sephiroths answer to that is because the suffering Cloud endured is what makes him able to over come his limits and reach almost impossible highs. This is what makes him able to do things that shouldn't be possible for someone like him. The best example for that would be the Nibelheim incidence. A 16 year old grunt who wasn't even good enough to become anything more than a lousy Shinra Guard was able to defeat the legendary Sephiroth.

And how did he do it? Through his rage. Because he lost his hometown, his mother and Tifa, Cloud was able to do the impossible. And I think that's where Sephiroth is heading towards in the remake. He wants to isolate Cloud from the others and have him face some really fucked up shit that is on pair with what happened 5 years ago. That's why he tells him he killed his mother, he wants to feed into his anger so Cloud can use those negative emotions to grow even stronger.

TLDR: remake Sephiroth is basically Mr Burns from this episode

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Sephiroth encountered throughout the Remake up to Ch17, is the same Sephiroth that exists in the Northern Crater.

It's only the Sephiroth that appears in Chapter 18 that's different. Until then, the Sephiroth that appeared is moving according to his place in the story.

 

[Roundhouse]

I'm not sure if the Roth at the end is a time travelling GoodRoth, or a SneakyRoth...

 

[a_apple 2.0]

The Sephiroth encountered throughout the Remake up to Ch17, is the same Sephiroth that exists in the Northern Crater.

It's only the Sephiroth that appears in Chapter 18 that's different. Until then, the Sephiroth that appeared is moving according to his place in the story.

Yeah, no way that's true, the chapter 2 encounter where he tells Cloud "He can't save anyone, not even himself" while putting his hand on Aerith shoulder makes me really hard press X on that

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud was encountering Aerith in distress because she was being chased and harassed by Whispers. Sephiroth mentally responding to Cloud's wish to save a clearly distressed Aerith could easily run parallel to the writer's alliteration towards Aerith's fate from the perspective of the audience.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Cloud was encountering Aerith in distress because she was being chased and harassed by Whispers. Sephiroth mentally responding to Cloud's wish to save a clearly distressed Aerith could easily run parallel to the writer's alliteration towards Aerith's fate from the perspective of the audience.

The remake Ultimania literally tells you dude Sephiroth already knows shit

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259402537939030017

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yes, and that's still the Sephiroth from the Northern Crater, hinting at future events or not. The same Ultimania explicitly states that the Chapter 18 Sephiroth at the Edge of Creation is separate from the one appearing in chapters 1 through 17.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Nah brother that ain't it, we are clearly past OG Seph in the remake. I think the reason why chapter 18 Sephiroth is listed as it's own entity might be because he absorbed the whispers/Meteor. Whatever the reason is my point is that Sephiroth knows about future events he can't overcome himself that's why he is reaching out to Cloud.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well there has to be a "Sephiroth" inhabiting the place that Sephiroth occupies in FFVII. You don't think there's actually a Sephiroth present in the Northern Crater, manipulating and controlling his copies? Even if he's aware of future events, there's a version of him that's following the role he occupies in the world presently.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

I genuinely think there is only one Sephiroth and that his body at the North Creator is just that, his body.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Nah brother that ain't it, we are clearly past OG Seph in the remake. I think the reason why chapter 18 Sephiroth is listed as it's own entity might be because he absorbed the whispers/Meteor.

Aerith says he's different before that. It's the bit in the English localization where Barret says "Okay, asshole, let's --" and then gets interrupted by Aerith putting her arm in front of him and saying "Don't."

In Japanese, Barret says "This asshole/fucker again --" and then Aerith stops him and says "It isn't." When she then stares Seph down she comments that he feels wrong.

 

[ultima786]

H

Aerith says he's different before that. It's the bit in the English localization where Barret says "Okay, asshole, let's --" and then gets interrupted by Aerith putting her arm in front of him and saying "Don't."

In Japanese, Barret says "This asshole/fucker again --" and then Aerith stops him and says "It isn't." When she then stares Seph down she comments that he feels wrong.

hmm.... do you speak Japanese? Can you expand on this? I’ve been looking for answers on this.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I stumble through it more than speak it, but what do you want to know?

 

[ultima786]

I stumble through it more than speak it, but what do you want to know?

Lol. I don’t even know what I want to know. Perhaps more on why you seem to suggest that this means “Sephiroth is different.” Does the language imply it’s future Seph, it’s Lifestream Seph, it’s not Seph at all but Jenova....

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Lol. I don’t even know what I want to know. Perhaps more on why you seem to suggest that this means “Sephiroth is different.” Does the language imply it’s future Seph, it’s Lifestream Seph, it’s not Seph at all but Jenova....

Well, her wording on its own doesn't really point to any of those, but it does illustrate what the Ultimania tells us (i.e. the Sephiroth from Chapter 18 is not a form of him we would have seen in the original game).

In my mind, that rules out a transformed part of Jenova, as well as Sephiroth's regular body. In light of the things he says and seems to know, I'd wager on some form of him from the future (or at least holding knowledge of the future).

 

[Shademp]

Transcript for the sake of completion.

バレット：てめえ！さっきは
エアリス：ちがう

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The whole point of Chapter 18 Sephiroth is that it's a Sephiroth we've never encountered in the Compilation before. Which suggests all the other versions of Sephiroth we see in the rest of the game are versions of him we *have* seen in the Compilation before.

Given what we know Sephiroth did in the original game, we know he should be at Northern Crater and directing Jenova's shapeshifted body and the Sephiroth Copies (including Cloud!) to come to the Northern Crater for Reunion. And that fits with all the sightings of Sephiroth that we see except the unknown Sephiroth of Chapter 18.