but the sudden pregnancy/cesarean was like NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. guess who will not be having sex is space.
interesting parallel: vickers was something like ripley from the first alien movie. she also did not want to bring aboard contaminated(diseased) people on the ship. the main difference seemed to be that she wasn't terribly interested in working with the other people on the mission, she just wanted to leave to take over the company. i will probably post more thoughts later. i like the idea the engineers killed off the dinosaurs tho!
Load of old bollocks, I mean I sympathise with the guy and everything, but having a seizure was probably going to happen to him sooner or later, obviously triggered by stress, so if it hadn't been this film it would have been something else.
I guess this means I get extra mega-bastard points because I
was feeling kicks and squirms all the way through the ceasarean scene
Load of old bollocks, I mean I sympathise with the guy and everything, but having a seizure was probably going to happen to him sooner or later, obviously triggered by stress, so if it hadn't been this film it would have been something else.
I guess this means I get extra mega-bastard points because I
was feeling kicks and squirms all the way through the ceasarean scene
I didn't find that scene at all problematic. I'm odd, gore is fine with me, just not limbs bending ways they aren't supposed to go etc. Therefore the scene where the guy got his arm broken probably grossed me out more.
Do we need spoiler tags any more? Can we do ye olde "this contains spoilers" in the title?
Reading that got me thinking about something, And I think you were trying to hint at this but didnt notice if you mentioned it or not (it was alot to read and take in after all xD)
buuuuuut.
So like the plan the engineers possibly had in mind was a 2 step process to make Xenomorphs.
First step: use the original black goo to seed earth to make humans/hosts.
Second step: Send the militarized black goo to earth to make huggers who would eventually impregnate the rest of the population with proto-xenomorph babies.
Yeah heart attacks I can understand, though I feel like that would be a sudden jump-scare that would trigger such a thing. Seizures aren't that common though, so I'm assuming that the kid had an undiagnosed condition, like most people don't get seizures when they experience something traumatic - they go into shock.
Some interesting stuff about Non-epileptic seizures here:
Seems to suggest that fainting and panic attacks are considered as seizures, so it could be that's what happened and the news article (as usual) is using 'seizure' because it sounds more dramatic doesn't it?
Anyway X that was a good read
It brings up a few things, I think theres a distinct possibilty Shaw and David are travelling into the jaws of doom there. If the engineers had that plan you describe, it doesn't sound like they're going to be to receptive to human visitors. Having said that, if LV-223 is only a military installation, then why haven't the other engineers carried out their plan? They've had 2000 years! Whats the freakin' holdup?
Also, on the Lovecraftian hugger (henceforth referred to as 'Cuddles') I get the sperm thing, but I'm a little dissapointed that he didn't take any of Shaw's DNA. I thought I had a good explanation for why the facehuggers in Aliens have distinctly uh....vulval? features. (Though the facehugger in Alien didn't seem to have that)
I don't know for sure though if we can say Shaw didn't have any eggs. She could have had defective ovaries yes, but then I don't think its beyond possiblity that the blackgoo/sperm couldn't have 'woken' them up. Also, lack of eggs is just one cause of infertility, it could have just been that her womb wasn't suitable.
Anyway I'm blathering now, I'm on no food and very little sleep
I second what Ghost said, can we change the thread title to Prometheus Spoilers now?
My one and only problem with this hypothesis is the ship in the original alien film.
When the crew go to investigate the engineer ship they make their way to what we know as the bridge.
It is here we see the floor eroded by acid (much like we see in other alien films)
If the engineers were indeed transporting the eggs then I don't believe they would have had a massive acidic hole lying in their bridge.
My hypothesis had always been that a xenomorph queen had been born and she was the one who gave birth to the facehuggers and also bore the acidic hole through the engineer cockpit.
I was watching Aliens yesterday, and the part where
Newt and Ripley are trapped with the facehuggers, and Ripley is wrestling with one of them with her bare hands, and then I thought 'waitaminit! the face hugger in alien managed to burn its way through Kanes helmet, why don't these facehuggers do the same? Anyway, then I got to thinking about the burn hole on the Derelict, and that were assuming it was burned from the bridge room to the hull - but what if it was the other way around? and something burned it's way into the bridgeroom? Just a thought, probably in the greater scheme of things L's idea is right.
Also, if Colonial Marines is meant to be set directly after Aliens and is considered canon...well isn't that a massive plot hole as the whole colony was destroyed in a nuclear blast? There wouldn't be much to see there would there? Also how far from Hadleys Hope was the derelict? Has that been destroyed too? Cos if it hasn't then I don't get why the company were so eager to get Ripley and her alien baby, they could have just collected more eggs from LV426
Yeah, lots of questions still, but I think that's actually a good thing since fans still talk about the movies long after they have watched them
BTW nice analysis X, it's very detailed, I didn't even notice some of the things you mentioned.
I still have a lot of questions, but right now I can only think of
what David said to the Engineer after they woke him up. Shaw and Weyland were coaching him to ask different things but we never got to know what he asked (or if he even asked their questions at all) because he spoke the Engineer's language. Whadya guys think (Sorry my memory of this scene is quite hazy)
I still have a lot of questions, but right now I can only think of
what David said to the Engineer after they woke him up. Shaw and Weyland were coaching him to ask different things but we never got to know what he asked (or if he even asked their questions at all) because he spoke the Engineer's language. Whadya guys think (Sorry my memory of this scene is quite hazy)
he said 'your mother was a hamster and your father stank of elderberries!'
Honestly I have no idea, it's kind of obvious that David doesn't follow Asimov's laws of robotics, but at the same time I don't think he wants to put his 'father' in danger, so I don't think he said anything provocative, not on purpose anyway. It seems to me that the Engineer saw the humans as a threat judging by his reaction anyway. I feel like even if they'd said 'we come in peace' he would have had the same reaction. Plus Shaw was there too and we don't know if the Engineer could understand what she was saying exactly, but at the very least her tone was angry/frightened. Maybe he picked up on that?
Sorry I'm not much help, answering questions with questions.
Honestly I have no idea, it's kind of obvious that David doesn't follow Asimov's laws of robotics, but at the same time I don't think he wants to put his 'father' in danger, so I don't think he said anything provocative, not on purpose anyway.
I was wondering if you could pick something up using the clip of the lesson he's doing while everyone else is still asleep, even if it would just be a couple of words or something.
the Engineer even touched his head quite affectionately (which is another puzzling thing to me; did he actually feel that David wasn't human and that freaked him out, or am I over-analyzing things ), but yeah there's also Shaw, and they did have someone with a weapon too. Or he could have sensed that they weren't going to leave without answers.
Lindelof sure knows how to mess with our heads
edit: I just fucking forgot to put spoiler tags. Let's just rename the thread, please?
I was wondering if you could pick something up using the clip of the lesson he's doing while everyone else is still asleep, even if it would just be a couple of words or something.
Oh shit yeah, I forgot about that bit! I guess I thought he was talking about
Vickers, but you're right maybe he did have his own agenda. It's obvious that they didn't build in much of a moral/behaviour inhibitor on David - presumably so they could get him to do bad stuff, so its kind of interesting to think it backfired on them. David is very childlike to me, and its like he's always testing boundaries.
When the Engineer stroked David's head I thought maybe he had said something different to try to endear himself to it, but then the Engineer ripped his head off so idk
On the subject of David, was his poisoning/infecting Holloway part of Weyland's overall plan or his order, or was that David acting on his own? I can't remember now if that came prior to or following the "try harder" part.
Also if seven people agree to make this a spoiler thread it shall be done
When the Engineer stroked David's head I thought maybe he had said something different to try to endear himself to it, but then the Engineer ripped his head off so idk
On the subject of David, was his poisoning/infecting Holloway part of Weyland's overall plan or his order, or was that David acting on his own? I can't remember now if that came prior to or following the "try harder" part.
Also if seven people agree to make this a spoiler thread it shall be done
Anyway X that was a good read, It brings up a few things, I think theres a distinct possibilty Shaw and David are travelling into the jaws of doom there. If the engineers had that plan you describe, it doesn't sound like they're going to be to receptive to human visitors. Having said that, if LV-223 is only a military installation, then why haven't the other engineers carried out their plan? They've had 2000 years! Whats the freakin' holdup?
Also, on the Lovecraftian hugger (henceforth referred to as 'Cuddles') I get the sperm thing, but I'm a little dissapointed that he didn't take any of Shaw's DNA. I thought I had a good explanation for why the facehuggers in Aliens have distinctly uh....vulval? features. (Though the facehugger in Alien didn't seem to have that)
I don't know for sure though if we can say Shaw didn't have any eggs. She could have had defective ovaries yes, but then I don't think its beyond possiblity that the blackgoo/sperm couldn't have 'woken' them up. Also, lack of eggs is just one cause of infertility, it could have just been that her womb wasn't suitable.
Anyway I'm blathering now, I'm on no food and very little sleep
There's always the possibility that the facility was considered to be full Chernobyl and not to be returned to, and they had other projects that were more worth their time (Either that or maybe once this group died off, no one knew to continue with it). If they scrapped the project halfway through, there's no reason why they'd care one way or another that Humanity was still rockin it out on Earth.
I had considered that as well, but the nature of the mutation doesn't seem to jive with it, since it's not really restoring any human functions in anyone else, and that would mean that Shaw was infected, and would be going full Xenomorph mutant in another 10 hours. Also, the LV-426 style Facehuggers DO have distinctly vulval features around their ovipositors. I can probably find pics when I'm not at work.
My one and only problem with this hypothesis is the ship in the original alien film. When the crew go to investigate the engineer ship they make their way to what we know as the bridge. It is here we see the floor eroded by acid (much like we see in other alien films). If the engineers were indeed transporting the eggs then I don't believe they would have had a massive acidic hole lying in their bridge. My hypothesis had always been that a xenomorph queen had been born and she was the one who gave birth to the facehuggers and also bore the acidic hole through the engineer cockpit.
Well you also have to remember that the Engineer on LV-426 had also been killed by the standard-sized Chestburster. The presence of an Alien onboard the craft would explain the acid as a way that it made its escape to wander away on LV-426 (Much like the Deacon in Prometheus). The issue with the Eggs being laid by a Queen is one - that they're all specificly contained within a stasis field generated by the ship rather than being laid elsewhere, and two - that there's no evidence that a Hive was setup there for the Queen to have laid the eggs. I'd always figured that it was one AvP-style case where he'd been implanted prior to leaving on the ship (this is also supported by the fact that his fully enclosed helmet is still on, and the Facehugger doesn't have any way to impregnate him without dissolving it).
I was watching Aliens yesterday, and the part where
Newt and Ripley are trapped with the facehuggers, and Ripley is wrestling with one of them with her bare hands, and then I thought 'waitaminit! the face hugger in alien managed to burn its way through Kanes helmet, why don't these facehuggers do the same? Anyway, then I got to thinking about the burn hole on the Derelict, and that were assuming it was burned from the bridge room to the hull - but what if it was the other way around? and something burned it's way into the bridgeroom? Just a thought, probably in the greater scheme of things L's idea is right.
Also, if Colonial Marines is meant to be set directly after Aliens and is considered canon...well isn't that a massive plot hole as the whole colony was destroyed in a nuclear blast? There wouldn't be much to see there would there? Also how far from Hadleys Hope was the derelict? Has that been destroyed too? Cos if it hasn't then I don't get why the company were so eager to get Ripley and her alien baby, they could have just collected more eggs from LV426
The Facehugger melting through Kane's helmet has always been a bit of a mystery, and I figure that they don't burn their host (like when they're fighting bare-handed), because they need them to stay alive in order for the Chestburster to gestate, and molecular acid burns doesn't do well to facilitate that.
If I remember correctly, the Engineer even touched his head quite affectionately (which is another puzzling thing to me; did he actually feel that David wasn't human and that freaked him out, or am I over-analyzing things ), but yeah there's also Shaw, and they did have someone with a weapon too. Or he could have sensed that they weren't going to leave without answers.
I'd assumed that the Engineer was surprised by hearing David speak to him. They're specifically biological engineers, and he immediately notices that there's something... off about David. That's why he touches him, and confirms that one of their creations - and "kills" him. Then he just proceeds to go full out at everyone else, and go off to Earth to drop off the Black Liquid, since things are clearly out of hand.
Yeah, don't go googling 'facehugger vulva' at work XD
Heres Gigers original design, they lost the 'eye' element and also the ladybits:
I'm guessing that was probably a censorship issue? Maybe they felt like they were pushing their luck enough as it was and that the original design would get them in trouble. IIRC in the finished film the underside of the facehugger was just a load of oysters and shit.
Well you also have to remember that the Engineer on LV-426 had also been killed by the standard-sized Chestburster. The presence of an Alien onboard the craft would explain the acid as a way that it made its escape to wander away on LV-426 (Much like the Deacon in Prometheus). The issue with the Eggs being laid by a Queen is one - that they're all specificly contained within a stasis field generated by the ship rather than being laid elsewhere, and two - that there's no evidence that a Hive was setup there for the Queen to have laid the eggs. I'd always figured that it was one AvP-style case where he'd been implanted prior to leaving on the ship (this is also supported by the fact that his fully enclosed helmet is still on, and the Facehugger doesn't have any way to impregnate him without dissolving it).
I dunno, it seems that they have to get into the suit in order to control the ship, so he could have gotten inplanted during a routine inspection of the cargo mid flight or something, then got into the suit in order to send his distress signal/warning?
The Facehugger melting through Kane's helmet has always been a bit of a mystery, and I figure that they don't burn their host (like when they're fighting bare-handed), because they need them to stay alive in order for the Chestburster to gestate, and molecular acid burns doesn't do well to facilitate that.
Yeah, good point, but they must have some degree of control over the acid's amount/strength. Otherwise it would have just melted Kanes head off.
It could be that the facehuggers in Hadleys Hope have lost that ability? Given that the colonists were cocooned prior to implantation. It wouldn't surprise me if they could adapt at a quicker rate, even though its only been 20 years
I'd assumed that the Engineer was surprised by hearing David speak to him. They're specifically biological engineers, and he immediately notices that there's something... off about David. That's why he touches him, and confirms that one of their creations - and "kills" him. Then he just proceeds to go full out at everyone else, and go off to Earth to drop off the Black Liquid, since things are clearly out of hand.
Yeah, that sounds about right. One other thing though, 4 (?) Engineers managed to get into the cryotubes, but only our man survived. Was the ship meant to take off on autopilot or something? Otherwise what was the remaining engineer hoping would happen? Had he sent a distress signal to others?
Yeah, don't go googling 'facehugger vulva' at work XD
Heres Gigers original design, they lost the 'eye' element and also the ladybits:
I'm guessing that was probably a censorship issue? Maybe they felt like they were pushing their luck enough as it was and that the original design would get them in trouble. IIRC in the finished film the underside of the facehugger was just a load of oysters and shit.
I dunno, it seems that they have to get into the suit in order to control the ship, so he could have gotten inplanted during a routine inspection of the cargo mid flight or something, then got into the suit in order to send his distress signal/warning?
The suit there is also attached to the Pilot seat. (There're four suits at the entryway where David comes in), so it's possible that he could have wandered the ship without a suit and any NUMBER of things could have transpired, but I think that it's clear that the Engineer discovered his infection, and set up the warning signal, before dying - likely while setting down on LV-426. Their ships are durable as all hell (the Prometheus blew up into it, and then it fell to earth with basically zero damage), and even a rough landing would leave it significantly intact.
It's worth noting that the stasis field they're in would probably prevent any ongoing mutation like that, and Xenomorphs don't seem like the types to LOSE any advantageous ability.
Yeah, that sounds about right. One other thing though, 4 (?) Engineers managed to get into the cryotubes, but only our man survived. Was the ship meant to take off on autopilot or something? Otherwise what was the remaining engineer hoping would happen? Had he sent a distress signal to others?
They seem to be in a significant panic, so I'd assumed it was a "better stuck in cryo-sleep waiting to be discovered than outside and infected" (just like there's no way out of the Mural Room, but it's a possible option that is safe from the atmosphere).
XD
It might've been, but I think it's still somewhat apparent in other designs, though not GLARINGLY obvious. (I'll get to that after work).
heres a pic from Alien:
I'm not seeing ladybits here, and IIRC Ash actually hadn't started disection yet...I might be wrong though.
The suit there is also attached to the Pilot seat. (There're four suits at the entryway where David comes in), so it's possible that he could have wandered the ship without a suit and any NUMBER of things could have transpired, but I think that it's clear that the Engineer discovered his infection, and set up the warning signal, before dying - likely while setting down on LV-426. Their ships are durable as all hell (the Prometheus blew up into it, and then it fell to earth with basically zero damage), and even a rough landing would leave it significantly intact.
It's worth noting that the stasis field they're in would probably prevent any ongoing mutation like that, and Xenomorphs don't seem like the types to LOSE any advantageous ability.
Yeah, you're probably right. Evolution doesn't really get rid of anything unless its a hinderance. Hence man nipples
They seem to be in a significant panic, so I'd assumed it was a "better stuck in cryo-sleep waiting to be discovered than outside and infected" (just like there's no way out of the Mural Room, but it's a possible option that is safe from the atmosphere).
If I recall correctly (I think from the wikipedia article), the original genital-like designs were removed from Alien because of fears about censorship, or how the audience would take it, etc. One of the two.
Something I found interesting was that the emergency operation machine, where she got her c-section; it was for the male anatomy, right? Did she end up changing that option (if such was an option). It didn't seem to be the case. She simply asked it to remove a foreign body. I think she was extremely fortunate that there didn't seem to be any issue with her female anatomy =p.
I feel stupid now because I was wondering since yesterday why the operation machine would be set for males when I assumed it was there for Vickers, but I guess it was probably there for Weyland's sake instead?
I feel stupid now because I was wondering since yesterday why the operation machine would be set for males when I assumed it was there for Vickers, but I guess it was probably there for Weyland's sake instead?
I didn't even figure that out! I think I'd just assumed it was a plot device to add extra panic to the proceedings.
Its a guess, but I'm thinking the machine can automatically tell the difference between patient and foreign bodies, and therefore it somehow knows not to damage any patient tissue?
I'd have to watch it again, but IIRC it only stapled her skin shut afterwards, It didn't look like it stitched up her womb :/
.
I love the reptar smiley.
Anyway, then I got to thinking about the burn hole on the Derelict, and that were assuming it was burned from the bridge room to the hull - but what if it was the other way around? and something burned it's way into the bridgeroom? Just a thought, probably in the greater scheme of things L's idea is right.
(Sorry my memory of this scene is quite hazy)
