Relationship between Remake and the original? (split from the "How many parts?" thread)

[KindOfBlue]

They're not going to mandate everyone to play the OG. But they push it like crazyyyyyyyyyyy. To be denying this, IDK, have you looked at the mobile game fort next year? If they didn't care, they wouldn't be releasing the OG, the Compilation (including ACC!!) and BONUS CONTENT just for the old players like us. They want everyone to play it. Will everyone play? Hell no. Of course not. But the majority? I bet they will.

Like I’ve been saying, it’s not that they don’t care about it, it’s just a matter of giving fans as many options as possible. They’d be fools not to capitalize on mobile gaming seeing how lucrative it is in Japan, but more to my point, there’s multiple ways to experience this story and they’re well aware of that, it was their idea in the first place. I think we’re really overestimating how much general audiences pay attention to supplementary materials, as if a new fan is going to know to look up a translation of an interview in an ultimania and play the OG based on that unless if somebody tells them to.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think we’re really overestimating how much general audiences pay attention to supplementary materials, as if a new fan is going to know to look up a translation of an interview in an ultimania and play the OG based on that unless if somebody tells them to.

Japanese people aren't going to need a translation. =P

In any case, regardless of how polite mandate vs. stern mandate Nomura'a wording was or wasn't, the new player in this scenario would need to be looking at an interview to see it, so invoking the format as a point unto itself is kind of a wasted exercise.

And I really hope you're not suggesting that these developers would never leave information critical to the understanding of a game in supplementary material, because that's ... simply incompatible with their operational history.

 

[Fiz]

Japanese people aren't going to need a translation. =P

In any case, regardless of how polite mandate vs. stern mandate Nomura'a wording was or wasn't, the new player in this scenario would need to be looking at an interview to see it, so invoking the format as a point unto itself is kind of a wasted exercise.

And I really hope you're not suggesting that these developers would never leave information critical to the understanding of a game in supplementary material, because that's ... simply incompatible with their operational history.

Lol, nooooo... they’d never do such a thing

 

[Odysseus]

Square does have a tendency to leave too much word-building to side content, but to their credit the main story is generally communicated well enough in the main game... unless it's Kingdom Hearts.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Japanese people aren't going to need a translation. =P

In any case, regardless of how polite mandate vs. stern mandate Nomura'a wording was or wasn't, the new player in this scenario would need to be looking at an interview to see it, so invoking the format as a point unto itself is kind of a wasted exercise.

And I really hope you're not suggesting that these developers would never leave information critical to the understanding of a game in supplementary material, because that's ... simply incompatible with their operational history.

Well my point is that not every new player would know to go out of their way to look for and read such an interview in the first place. As far as the devs leaving critical information in supplementary materials goes, I did pretty well as a new fan not having to read interviews to understand the products outside of AC, and that was all because of shipping nonsense. Marketing an entire multi-year multi-million dollar remake project as a sequel to the original, if that intent was so important, and not just a new way to experience the story would go a bit beyond a simple remark in an interview for an ultimania, would it not?

 

[Ite]

Square does have a tendency to leave too much word-building to side content, but to their credit the main story is generally communicated well enough in the main game... unless it's Kingdom Hearts.

I really think 7R is one of the most egregious examples of this — yes, because of the misleading title and marketing. I just deleted another long rant because I don’t think I’m going to convince anyone who doesn’t already agree, but I did feel like it needs to be said, because lots of people would agree, but say nothing.

The fact that it’s left to another director to clean up the mess makes me lol

 

[Odysseus]

The first part can be understood well enough with or without the original, but I think future parts are the only thing that will make it certain.

For the record, I do agree with you about the misleading marketing, Ite. Square wanted to have their cake and eat it too on this one. It just seems like a lot of people decided to check out the original in the wake of the remake (like our own thatguymikey) so the whole thing might work out. Doesn't change the fact that they promised you one thing and you got another, I can't blame you for being upset about that.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well my point is that not every new player would know to go out of their way to look for and read such an interview in the first place.

That's a thing fans (new or old) tend to do, though. And again, SE has never gotten fussed about spreading pivotal information around before.

Marketing an entire multi-year multi-million dollar remake project as a sequel to the original, if that intent was so important, and not just a new way to experience the story would go a bit beyond a simple remark in an interview for an ultimania, would it not?

You have a crystal ball that lets us see the marketing for all the future installments? =P

Regardless, your suggestion is neutralized by what was done with the Rebuild of Evangelion series. That's the scenario you're describing, but the marketing was never concerned with clarification.

 

[KindOfBlue]

That's a thing fans (new or old) tend to do, though. And again, SE has never gotten fussed about spreading pivotal information around before.



You have a crystal ball that lets us see the marketing for all the future installments? =P

Regardless, your suggestion is neutralized by what was done with the Rebuild of Evangelion series. That's the scenario you're describing, but the marketing was never concerned with clarification.

Fans sure, but I’m thinking more of casual audiences. I’d be really curious to know how many people who played Remake also played the OG beforehand. Even then, I would think it takes a specific type of fan to spend the day debating about pixels like we do.

As far as future marketing goes, it’s anybody’s guess. Everything I’ve been saying is based on what we’ve seen so far, so we’ll see what their approach is with part 2. I totally understand wanting the remake to be one thing and being upset about getting something else, that part I can sympathize with and even feel bad for anybody in that position, I just don’t think of what we got as being any less of a remake is all.

By definition, the game is a remake. It’s a modernized, recreation of an older title. Sure, there’s a double meaning to their usage of “remake” that’s yet to be revealed but based on what’s been shown so far, I don’t think whatever second meaning they’re cooking negates the first one. I dunno who wrote the rules on what a remake is supposed to be anyways but they seem pretty arbitrary to me.

So I think rather than wasting time debating the usage of the word “remake”, a more productive conversation would be around the merit of the choices the devs made in approaching the remake the way that they did. Which is what most of these conversations are about anyways so we’re already there. There’s also the question of how both games exist in relation to one another (which is what lead to this crazy ass thread being split off in the first place if I recall correctly).

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I totally understand wanting the remake to be one thing and being upset about getting something else, that part I can sympathize with and even feel bad for anybody in that position, I just don’t think of what we got as being any less of a remake is all.

By definition, the game is a remake. It’s a modernized, recreation of an older title. Sure, there’s a double meaning to their usage of “remake” that’s yet to be revealed but based on what’s been shown so far, I don’t think whatever second meaning they’re cooking negates the first one. I dunno who wrote the rules on what a remake is supposed to be anyways but they seem pretty arbitrary to me.

So I think rather than wasting time debating the usage of the word “remake”, a more productive conversation would be around the merit of the choices the devs made in approaching the remake the way that they did.

We're more or less in agreement about all that. But I'm also on the record as realizing I would be happier with the requel route than a straight remake.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The fact that it’s left to another director to clean up the mess makes me lol

This isn't what is happening. The new "director" of Part 2 is the Co-Director of Part 1. Specifically Co-Director of all the game systems. Nomura is stepping down as Director so he can focus more on his specialty: character design, event planning, etc. There's a director and two co-directors of Remake. They're jsut shuffling titles around rather than bringing in someone completely new who has no idea what is going on.

One of the things I'm not sure about is how much NKN and SE's marketing department really... exchanged information on what both sides thought was going on with Remake. You have Nomura saying people won't really know what "Remake" means for a while... which suggests it doesn't actually mean "remake" in terms of what kind of video-game Remake was trying to be.

So... I could see NKN thinking it was not really a reamake the entire time while the Marketing Department was going "best way to market this is as a Remake". And various wires getting crossed and not sorted out. Goodness knows this wouldn't the first time SE's Marketing Department and the actual game devs have different ideas about what a game should be about.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Even with Nomura not being "director", he's still a contributing creative force so it's not as if anything's really changing. This isn't DC or Disney cinematic universe dilution going on. We won't have 3 games with 3 different directors telling 3 different stories.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

contributing creative force so it's not as if anything's really changing.

Even more than that, he's still the creative lead. He's just going to be looking at multiple FFVII Series projects in simultaneous development.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Nomura is Creative Lead... Nojima is still Main Scenario Writer... Kitase is still Producer.... nothing is changing too much on the creative front which is where all the story controversy is happening.

 

[Fiz]

Nomura is Creative Lead... Nojima is still Main Scenario Writer... Kitase is still Producer.... nothing is changing too much on the creative front which is where all the story controversy is happening.

Yeah, a lot of this director stuff is confirmation bias.

 

[KindOfBlue]

We're more or less in agreement about all that. But I'm also on the record as realizing I would be happier with the requel route than a straight remake.

Y’know part of me wishes I could go back in time and play this as a kid just to see what I would’ve wanted out of a remake and whether or not I’d still be as excited...then I remember the small glimpses I’ve seen of how wild the online community was like in earlier years and I think maybe going into this with the temperament of an adult was much better for my own sanity

This isn't what is happening. The new "director" of Part 2 is the Co-Director of Part 1. Specifically Co-Director of all the game systems. Nomura is stepping down as Director so he can focus more on his specialty: character design, event planning, etc. There's a director and two co-directors of Remake. They're jsut shuffling titles around rather than bringing in someone completely new who has no idea what is going on.

One of the things I'm not sure about is how much NKN and SE's marketing department really... exchanged information on what both sides thought was going on with Remake. You have Nomura saying people won't really know what "Remake" means for a while... which suggests it doesn't actually mean "remake" in terms of what kind of video-game Remake was trying to be.

So... I could see NKN thinking it was not really a reamake the entire time while the Marketing Department was going "best way to market this is as a Remake". And various wires getting crossed and not sorted out. Goodness knows this wouldn't the first time SE's Marketing Department and the actual game devs have different ideas about what a game should be about.

I figured it’s less about a disconnect in marketing and really more about not spoiling the surprises, even after everything was revealed the devs seem to talk more about remaking what fans recognize than the new stuff they added which kinda parallels how most of the game was adapting the old story while only a fraction went in a new direction...a lot of their statements center around honoring the OG more than anything else I think