Remake Interviews: Catch-all Thread

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
I think a lot of my messing around in regard to remake comes from my love for the OG. I never even wanted a remake, although happy for those who did. I think I got the idea that the more differences and new elements that came into the remake, the more it would be separated from the OG, and thus people wouldn't be able to use it as much of a 'replacement'. So the more changes the better.

In hindsight, it's silly to be scared of this though -- part one already has enough significant differences to set the project apart. The OG will always be relevant and awesome.
 

Odysseus

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AKA
Ody
Genesis is asleep below Midgar. He is sleeping. So why would he wake up when the whole crux of his existence is he's a huge secret who chose to seal himself away after getting bodied by Zack and wanting to turn away from Deepground?
Because Sephiroth is messing up the timeline and the planet has to recruit the annoying play guy to deal with it because all of her other defenses are gone. There is much work to be done, you see.


That was Omega!

Omega woke him up.
Citation needed


There is no other game after Dirge of Cerberus.
There's Remake, who's Sephiroth is certainly from after Dirge lol.


That's where the Compilation chronologically ended.
Except for Sephiroth, and now Genesis lol.


Unless they make a new game that takes place further into the future, that is over.
From a certain perspective it's the future.

There's no other game past DC in the Compilation. Except maybe Ever Crisis. Because that's in the Compilation.
Remake started life as the final comp entry and probably still is that.


Maybe they'll do something with Genesis there! :monster:
Yeah, add a new scene to the Dirge version that sets up his appearance in Remake lol.


Lines like this are why I think you just started trolling people about Genesis, couldn't stop, and accidentally convinced yourself that you like him, lol. Why would he be on OUR side?
I don't like him either. This is no ringing Genesis endorsement. I'd rather he stay far away. Just that I know nobody wants this yet I find it incredibly likely lol.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Because Sephiroth is messing up the timeline and the planet has to recruit the annoying play guy to deal with it because all of her other defenses are gone. There is much work to be done, you see.

....But the planet is aware of the fact Cloud and the others beat him before. Why wouldn't they just turn to them??

Why would they need Genesis?

Citation needed

Genesis woke up during Dirge of Cerberus, didn't he? The awakening and destruction of Omega was the planetary crisis that finally roused Genesis from sleep. That's what happened. Was it just coincidence Genesis happened to finally get off his ass around the time a huge ass war and planetary scale threat just so happened to wrap up? It's clear that's what woke him up.

From a certain perspective it's the future.

.......

Remake started life as the final comp entry and probably still is that.

I mean, yeah. It technically is... And that's true but that's not what I mean by chronologically. I meant the actual chronological future of the FFVII timeline. Post 0010.

Yeah, add a new scene to the Dirge version that sets up his appearance in Remake lol.

I don't understand this.

LOL like I really don't.

I don't get why this whole fixation exists around Genesis like he's this big deal who's this unresolved thing that needs answering. No one thought this hard.

Do you realize the writers felt Weiss the Immaculate was a more important addition to the Remake to include over him?

Nomura literally thought more about a what-if Cloud vs. Weiss fight and decided to make THAT happen, before anything with Genesis. I don't know why, maybe it's the celebrity appeal or something, but that movie is not important. Maybe they'll revisit the future post DC (probably not given I'm positive they'll be burned out regarding FFVII after the Remake) and he can do whatever there but.... The Remake is FFVII. I don't see how that secret movie is such a tension grabbing plot thread that DEMANDS unraveling within the story of FFVII. It's almost surreal to me how people think so heavily about it.
 

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
One thing that actually does surprise me quite a bit is that after the REBIRTH trailer I'm seeing people genuinely predict that Genesis will be a key figure like the master villain in the game, linking it to the red hue in the title and the timing of CCR release. They seem quite serious, unless they were joking and I never caught on.
 
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Makoeyes987

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Smooth Criminal
Because the fucking meme has turned into unironic speculation.

Hell, it briefly manifested when the Remake first released and people flipped out at the inclusion of "G-Type" SOLDIERs and Hojo wanting to run a train through Aerith.

I don't understand the fixation at all. Aitaikimochi, NSP, and a bunch of other people have just literally gotten trapped in some Jenova illusion and are literally theorizing over some old ass stinger video from 2006.

And the Crisis Core Reunion release hasn't helped matters, honestly. Even though the man is sick and he's given no new lines of dialogue for that game.

Like he posted a video on his damn instagram based on one of his past performances wearing the Project G costume, and folks literally thought that meant something, like he hasn't been posting concert highlights for years.

The fact people are watching his instagram feed trying to glean FFVII clues is like. I don't know what to think, but it's wild. Like, what the hell??
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
..But the planet is aware of the fact Cloud and the others beat him before. Why wouldn't they just turn to them??

Why would they need Genesis?
Because Clock and his band of friends can't seem to finish the job, perhaps.


Genesis woke up during Dirge of Cerberus, didn't he? The awakening and destruction of Omega was the planetary crisis that finally roused Genesis from sleep. That's what happened. Was it just coincidence Genesis happened to finally get off his ass around the time a huge ass war and planetary scale threat just so happened to wrap up? It's clear that's what woke him up.
That's not a citation. Prove it. He woke up after Omega died, probably because something else happened. Is there "much work to do" if the conflict is already over?

mean, yeah. It technically is... And that's true but that's not what I mean by chronologically. I meant the actual chronological future of the FFVII timeline. Post 0010.
I think you're forgetting all the time traveling that's going on that served as the basis for the conflict in Remake. To bring up the dreaded Kingdom of hearts, Ansem, Xemnas, Replica Riku, etc. all friggin DIED, yet went on to appear in DDD and KH3 thanks to time travel bullshit. It's not foreign to SE nor are you ignorant to the concept.


don't get why this whole fixation exists around Genesis like he's this big deal who's this unresolved thing that needs answering. No one thought this hard.
You underestimate SE. Genesis is on all of their minds because CCR is coming soon, so it's not like they forgot about him.

Do you realize the writers felt Weiss the Immaculate was a more important addition to the Remake to include over him?
Citation needed. When did anyone say that? We are on game one of three dude.


Nomura literally thought more about a what-if Cloud vs. Weiss fight and decided to make THAT happen, before anything with Genesis.
Citation needed. Again, they could easily have had plans for one of the other two games.




Maybe they'll revisit the future post DC (probably not given I'm positive they'll be burned out regarding FFVII after the Remake)
All the more reason to do it now.

The Remake is FFVII. I don't see how that secret movie is such a tension grabbing plot thread that DEMANDS unraveling within the story of FFVII. It's almost surreal to me how people think so heavily about it.
Because he'd be part of a side conflict and not central to the main story, much likevthe other intrusive plot element they already introduced in part 1?
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
Citation needed. Again, they could easily have had plans for one of the other two games.

Wasn't there an Intermission interview where Nomura said he considered Genesis for the VR boss but thought Weiss was a better choice for being almost as strong as Sephiroth or something?
 

Tetsujin

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Tets
Wasn't there an Intermission interview where Nomura said he considered Genesis for the VR boss but thought Weiss was a better choice for being almost as strong as Sephiroth or something?

It's funny, because the whole idea for this thread was to collect interviews specifically so it'd be easier to find stuff whenever you go "didn't they say x at one point" but that quickly went out of the window :monster:
 

Makoeyes987

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Smooth Criminal
That's not a citation. Prove it. He woke up after Omega died, probably because something else happened. Is there "much work to do" if the conflict is already over?

Well, what's the threat then? The interview specifically said he woke up because of a threat towards a planet and he awoke during Dirge of Cerberus. Yes, it was after Omega was finally defeated but the conflict as a whole was what roused him, regardless of if it was before or after Omega. He awoke during that conflict; that's why it's an ending to the game. There is no other demonstrated conflict or reason for Genesis to be awake.

And again, that ominous line? It ties exactly into what they'd said the purpose of the movie was. To make it appear Genesis was an ominous threat but then to show in Crisis Core he's actually not!

I think you're forgetting all the time traveling that's going on that served as the basis for the conflict in Remake. To bring up the dreaded Kingdom of hearts, Ansem, Xemnas, Replica Riku, etc. all friggin DIED, yet went on to appear in DDD and KH3 thanks to time travel bullshit. It's not foreign to SE nor are you ignorant to the concept.

Bruh, Sephiroth time traveled. No it's not a foreign concept and I'm aware of it. But there's no damn True Organization SOLDIER XIII here. What I'm saying, is there's no time tunnel for a bunch of other future characters to just suddenly drop into FFVII's plot. That's silly!

Citation needed. When did anyone say that? We are on game one of three dude.

If Genesis was so important, why would Weiss get first billing before HIM? LMAO come on.

Because he'd be part of a side conflict and not central to the main story, much likevthe other intrusive plot element they already introduced in part 1?


LOL but they're not intrusive. They work within the confines and continuity placements of the overall lore. What's "intrusive" is a time traveling tertiary antagonist from the future who has no business being in the main conflict of FFVII, and who already exists in the same time period anyways. It makes no sense!

If they wanted to use Genesis, they could use the present Genesis who exists there in FFVII! It's so ridiculously and hilariously redundant.
 
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cold_spirit

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Alex T
I've not read through this debate, but I was mentioned twice. Here's the link to the recent Gamespot article where Nomura states that it would be difficult to build Dirge into the current Remake story because it takes place after FF7.

Notice that Nomura doesn't say "spoil". In fact, he separates the stories. Dirge takes place after "Final Fantasy 7", but the "7 Remake" story is ongoing. It's future is unknown. This could be seen as further evidence that Remake will go in a different direction. Crisis Core is immune to this because it takes place before both stories.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/c...r-cloud-is-the-better-character/1100-6505171/

 

Odysseus

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Ody
Mako your ability to carry on with these debates all day is impressive lol.

Well, what's the threat then? The interview specifically said he woke up because of a threat towards a planet and he awoke during Dirge of Cerberus.
I mean, I doubt they actually knew when they made the scene. Like you said, it was made as a teaser for Crisis Core first and foremost. I just also know from interviews in the Crisis Core Complete Guide that once upon a time that had considered both an FFVII-2 and a Remake, and I bet you Genesis would have appeared in a FFVII-2. Currently I believe some of their ideas for FFVII-2 were rolled into Remake.

The threat would be, in my scenario, Sephiroth travelling back in time. The defeat of Omega could have facilitated his ability to do this, as all of the Planet's defenses would be gone. Really, the reason is whatever they would want it to be though.

And again, that ominous line? It ties exactly into what they'd said the purpose of the movie was. To make it appear Genesis was an ominous threat but then to show in Crisis Core he's actually not!
But why is he waking up? Do you think they never intended to follow up on the scene? It's as much a cliffhanger as it is a Crisis Core teaser. Outside of cancelled sequels most games don't end on cliffhangers that never get followed up on. Should we assume Cloud and Co. all die shortly after Dirge due to some unseen threat? I don't see why "the Sephiroth from the future that travels back to FF7 times" isn't an adequate answer to what threat he's addressing.

Bruh, Sephiroth time traveled. No it's not a foreign concept and I'm aware of it. But there's no damn True Organization SOLDIER XIII here. What I'm saying, is there's no time tunnel for a bunch of other future characters to just suddenly drop into FFVII's plot. That's silly!
If Sephiroth can use lifestream bullshit to time travel, why wouldn't the "planet's protector" be able to? I don't get why that's so unimaginable to you.

If Genesis was so important, why would Weiss get first billing before HIM? LMAO come on.
Because there's two other games for him to be in? Remake wasn't ONE game? Remember? If his role in the plot was up coming (I assume related to Zack) he wouldn't have a reason to be in Remake. Why hasn't fuckin, I dunno, Elena showed up yet? Was she not good enough compared to Weiss?

LOL but they're not intrusive.
Many would disagree with this including several members of this forum lol.

They work within the confines and continuity placements of the overall lore. What's "intrusive" is a time traveling tertiary antagonist from the future who has no business being in the main conflict of FFVII, and who already exists in the same time period anyways. It makes no sense!
Genesis had no reason to get involved the first time around (because he didn't exist when FF7 was made lol) but the situation has changed. Hell, how about we forget the time travel. The whispers are gone or under Sephiroth's control, and he's got even worse plans than before assumedly, so how about the Planet just wakes up the PRESENT DAY Genesis sleeping in a cave? Would that be more realistic for you? I'm just tying in Dirge's scene so that's not a loose end, we could easily make an excuse for a non-time traveling Genesis as well. He exists, as you said. He's there. He could come out any time.
If they wanted to use Genesis, they could use the present Genesis who exists there in FFVII! It's so ridiculously and hilariously redundant.
Like I said, I'm just trying to tie up the loose end. I guess you'd be fine with Genesis appearing as long as no time travel is involved lol.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Mako your ability to carry on with these debates all day is impressive lol.

What can I say, it's what the forum's for :monster:

I mean, I doubt they actually knew when they made the scene. Like you said, it was made as a teaser for Crisis Core first and foremost. I just also know from interviews in the Crisis Core Complete Guide that once upon a time that had considered both an FFVII-2 and a Remake, and I bet you Genesis would have appeared in a FFVII-2. Currently I believe some of their ideas for FFVII-2 were rolled into Remake.

Exactly. They didn't know. That's why it's not some unresolved plot thread. It was merely a concept and stinger for CC. There's no grand overarching need for resolution there. It just is.

If there was a sequel post DC, yes. Genesis more than likely would be in it. But that doesn't exist and pretending the Remake is some stand in for it isn't real either.

But why is he waking up? Do you think they never intended to follow up on the scene? It's as much a cliffhanger as it is a Crisis Core teaser. Outside of cancelled sequels most games don't end on cliffhangers that never get followed up on. Should we assume Cloud and Co. all die shortly after Dirge due to some unseen threat? I don't see why "the Sephiroth from the future that travels back to FF7 times" isn't an adequate answer to what threat he's addressing.

He woke up because of Omega. It's not that complicated. Omega awoke and exploded over Midgar. It was a disaster where the Planet's entire Lifestream almost got completely stolen. It's not some grand design connected to the Remake or Sephiroth.

If Sephiroth can use lifestream bullshit to time travel, why wouldn't the "planet's protector" be able to? I don't get why that's so unimaginable to you.

Because Genesis isn't the strongest singular antagonist or being in FFVII. Genesis isn't anywhere close to Sephiroth's importance or scale. If anyone would manage to achieve time travel through using spirit energy, it would be him.

Because there's two other games for him to be in? Remake wasn't ONE game? Remember? If his role in the plot was up coming (I assume related to Zack) he wouldn't have a reason to be in Remake. Why hasn't fuckin, I dunno, Elena showed up yet? Was she not good enough compared to Weiss?

Genesis, the SOLDIER sleeping beneath Midgar, is so important yet he cannot show up in the part of the story he literally is locked in?

Weiss was given consideration to show up as a tertiary antagonist of the Compilation since he was in Midgar. They made it work. No such consideration was given to Genesis. You really believe they're saving Genesis for some grand entrance or experience outside the scope of his location so he can time travel?? That's what I'm saying makes no sense.

Elena shows up in the Mythril Mines. She didn't need to show up in Midgar.

Many would disagree with this including several members of this forum lol

They can think what they like. I like the Compilation and I have no problems with it. I just want it's elements to be used with some sense and internal consistency. Not like mud hurled at the drapes. The elements shown so far aren't intrusive to me and many other FFVII fans but again. There's always a limit and a difference between using something properly like Episode Intermission and then... That.

The Singularity doesn't mean jack. Writing sense, restraint and narrative focus don't get thrown out the window, as their own words have demonstrated. There's no reason to go dumb-dumb apple like that. The Singularity doesn't make them forget what they're doing.

so how about the Planet just wakes up the PRESENT DAY Genesis sleeping in a cave? Would that be more realistic for you? I'm just tying in Dirge's scene so that's not a loose end, we could easily make an excuse for a non-time traveling Genesis as well. He exists, as you said. He's there. He could come out any time

Yes actually! That would be better.

It would still be stupid, but far less stupid. If Genesis is going to appear it would make sense to have him actually appear in the same time period he exists in because he's already there. There's no reason for him to time travel just to go to the time he literally exists in.

It would be dumb for him to show up in the first place given "G" is meant to be this huge dark secret and his records are meant to be erased, but if they were going to cameo him outside the digital combat simulator, he could be seen or witnessed in Midgar itself.

Like, if the writers expanded the raid on Midgar and Cloud and the others ended up finding themselves deeper in Midgar than the party expected, there's potential space for that. There's waaaaaay more logical and thematic room to make that appearance of Genesis work than just shoehorning him as... A time traveling pseudo-weapon-something who just appears more unexpectedly than the Spanish Inquisition.

Like, I don't even want that to happen but I can admit that makes some loose semblance of sense than trying to retroactively make some secret movie hold importance when it hasn't for 16 years.

I guess you'd be fine with Genesis appearing as long as no time travel is involved lol.

Exactly. As long as it made sense and didn't distract from the overarching story. It shouldn't be greater in scope than Weiss and Nero's appearance in Intermission.
 
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Odysseus

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Ody
Exactly. They didn't know. That's why it's not some unresolved plot thread. It was merely a concept and stinger for CC. There's no grand overarching need for resolution there. It just is.
Many stories aren't planned out ahead of time. They left the thread of Genesis to be picked up later. How exactly they'd do it didn't matter. To bring up "Another Side, Another Story" again, go read what Nojima had to say about it. He had to find places in KH2 to use all the random quotes that appear in the movie because none of them meant anything when it was made. You can grow a story from seeds like that, it doesn't have to mean anything at the moment. I find your argument that the scene was made to mean nothing but tease Crisis Core pretty ridiculous lol.

If there was a sequel post DC, yes. Genesis more than likely would be in it. But that doesn't exist and pretending the Remake is some stand in for it isn't real either.
Maybe I'm a fucking idiot but a time travelling Sephiroth completely means other future elements could get involved too (and already are, as seen with Cloud and Aerith).

He woke up because of Omega. It's not that complicated. Omega awoke and exploded over Midgar. It was a disaster where the Planet's entire Lifestream almost got completely stolen. It's not some grand design connected to the Remake or Sephiroth.
You still haven't provided a source for this, and insisting Genesis just "got up late" for the plot is a pretty nonsense argument imo.

Because Genesis isn't the strongest singular antagonist or being in FFVII. Genesis isn't anywhere close to Sephiroth's importance or scale. If anyone would manage to achieve time travel through using spirit energy, it would be him.
Fact is we don't know how Sephiroth did it, or how Aerith did it, or even what's happening with Cloud, so these kinds of assertions are pretty meaningless at the moment. "He can't do it because he's not important enough" isn't something you get to decided.

He had Weiss with him, second only to Sephiroth, so maybe Weiss could do it lol.

Genesis, the SOLDIER sleeping beneath Midgar, is so important yet he cannot show up in the part of the story he literally is locked in?
Is he even locked there? I think he's just napping lol. He can probably leave, as we see him do.

Weiss was given consideration to show up as a tertiary antagonist of the Compilation since he was in Midgar. They made it work. No such consideration was given to Genesis. You really believe they're saving Genesis for some grand entrance or experience outside the scope of his location so he can time travel?? That's what I'm saying makes no sense.
Weiss actually is stuck in Midgar by threat of explosive chip in his brain or something, so he's more limited in his movement. He asked Genesis to help them escape before Genesis said STFU and fucked off into a cave for three years. He can just wake up and leave whenever I think. Shinra doesn't have him on lockdown, he's just... asleep, until Mommy Minerva says go.

Elena shows up in the Mythril Mines. She didn't need to show up in Midgar.
And Genesis could appear in X location which means he doesn't have to be in Remake.

Yes actually! That would be better.

It would still be stupid, but far less stupid. If Genesis is going to appear it would make sense to have him actually appear in the same time period he exists in because he's already there. There's no reason for him to time travel just to go to the time he literally exists in.
He could do an Aerith and share memories with his past self rather than overriding his past self like Sephiroth did, therefore having the knowledge of his post-Dirge self while not physically being him.

It would be dumb for him to show up in the first place given "G" is meant to be this huge dark secret and his records are meant to be erased, but if they were going to cameo him outside the digital combat simulator, he could be seen or witnessed in Midgar itself.
Again... he could just... leave Midgar. And fly somewhere else.

Like, if the writers expanded the raid on Midgar and Cloud and the others ended up finding themselves deeper in Midgar than the party expected, there's potential space for that. There's waaaaaay more logical and thematic room to make that appearance of Genesis work than just shoehorning him as... A time traveling pseudo-weapon-something who just appears more unexpectedly than the Spanish Inquisition.
Okay ignore time travel for a minute. The situation has changed from OG FF7. Sephiroth is assumedly much stronger now. Why would the planet not sic its own Jenova-celled dog at him on top of all the other stuff it does? Having him be inactive would make no sense. It's already nonsense that he wasn't involved with meteor beyond "he wasn't a character yet".

Like, I don't even want that to happen but I can admit that makes some loose semblance of sense than trying to retroactively make some secret movie hold importance when it hasn't for 16 years.
For the record, I don't strictly want any of this either. I just think some version of Genesis is sure to play a role.

Exactly. As long as it made sense and didn't distract from the overarching story. It shouldn't be greater in scope than Weiss and Nero's appearance in Intermission.
I feel like the nature of his character would demand a greater role than them. They have Zero involvement with any of the OG characters until after, but Genesis is an ex-rival of Sephiroth, knew Zack and Cloud, and is now an actor for the Planet.
 

Odysseus

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Ody
Oh, and here it almost sounds like Genesis was added to Crisis Core specifically so Dirge's secret scene would have context lol

1657335191691.png
It seems like Genesis was not made for Crisis Core but instead was invented for Dirge's stinger, and was then added to Crisis Core along with Weiss and Nero to give Dirge more connection to FF7 and CC. The games were developed in tandem, so the concept of "G" was made for Dirge and incorporated into CC. It seems like they never got to use Genesis for whatever he was created for.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Many stories aren't planned out ahead of time. They left the thread of Genesis to be picked up later. How exactly they'd do it didn't matter. To bring up "Another Side, Another Story" again, go read what Nojima had to say about it. He had to find places in KH2 to use all the random quotes that appear in the movie because none of them meant anything when it was made. You can grow a story from seeds like that, it doesn't have to mean anything at the moment. I find your argument that the scene was made to mean nothing but tease Crisis Core pretty ridiculous lol.

KH2 was a greenlit game that they planned for and designed to exist for a continuing franchise. The concepts designed for that movie were part of an ongoing project that would eventually be used for a game in development. Dirge's secret movie was primarily a stinger for the next already in development game, Crisis Core. Do not see the difference? There was no overarching intent to make some new game post-DC because they wasn't a grand intention to do so. Even in the Perfect Guide interview for Dirge of Cerberus, a sequel for DC was seen as an "if." Not a "when." So assuming it has this greater overarching meaning is false. It was never intended as such because DC never even had a guaranteed sequel set in it's future.

For 16 years that concept movie had zero thought or intention directed to it. So trying to build up this great meaning for it when even the writers never said as much is like wishing on a cheese burger. You can do it, but it makes no sense.

Maybe I'm a fucking idiot but a time travelling Sephiroth completely means other future elements could get involved too (and already are, as seen with Cloud and Aerith).

No it doesn't mean that! You think this is some sort of Pandora's box where "anything goes" when we've literally seen the Compilation and elements used with surprising restrain and consideration to continuity within the canon. Just because a new mystery has been introduced doesn't mean shit has hit the fan in terms of consideration for the source material. Why else would be following their canon so much?

You still haven't provided a source for this, and insisting Genesis just "got up late" for the plot is a pretty nonsense argument imo.

I'm providing as much as you, dude! :monster:

You're making an extraordinary claim of importance for this 16 year old secret movie with no tangible evidence and I'm pointing out how it fits just fine where it is and is completely in line with the statements from the CC Ultimania. Without trying to shoehorn it into the Remake. My need for evidence isn't rested upon some extraordinary claim of some vast grand meaning. I'm just saying what it's been for 16 years. Not important.

Dev quote vomit about Dirge's secret ending
View attachment 12727

View attachment 12728
^From Genesis' CC Ultimania profile

View attachment 12729
From here: https://web.archive.org/web/2007092...03015&archive=1138751820&start_from=&ucat=36&

Pretty clear it was never meant to just be a teaser for CC, though I doubt they had solid ideas yet

Wow, that is so meaningful and important. What an incredible insight and expansion we saw. What year was that again? God, that was so important we didn't hear jack from that for how long again?? :awesome:

Yeah, it totally was such a grand prologue we saw it lead to what again? It was so long ago, I can't even remember...

There are LOTS of forgotten and unused ideas in Final Fantasy, you really think every concept ends up actualized? Especially when they're nearly 2 decades old? This is FFVII Remake and we're following Cloud Strife's story in 0007. You think they're somehow fixated on stuff from an interview a decade ago?

You still haven't provided a source for this, and insisting Genesis just "got up late" for the plot is a pretty nonsense argument imo.

Because I'm not making the claim of some grand importance for the tertiary antagonist here. He got awoken by Omega, a threat that was a danger to the Planet. If it happened late, so what? You're riding on a point that's been literally forgotten for so long people didn't give two-shits about it until someone ironically meme'd Genesis so hard, that it turned unironic when Hojo mentioned having some G-Type SOLDIERs try to create a baby with Aerith.

That one mention of "G-Type" SOLDIERs is the closest, most tangible reference to Genesis we've gotten in the Remake and it's been like a grain silo fire ever since. People fucking losing their minds over speculating when Genesis will return because they just are so fixated on a character that was designed with a J-Rock star's likeness. Like, it makes no sense. If he weren't carrying Gackt's likeness and didn't get shat on so badly by fandom, no one would give a shit, and this would be a non-issue. He'd be seen as another tertiary antagonist within the Compilation. But because of those two special factors, he's amassed an inordinate amount of attention.

Is he even locked there? I think he's just napping lol.

He can probably leave, as we see him do.
Weiss actually is stuck in Midgar by threat of explosive chip in his brain or something, so he's more limited in his movement. He asked Genesis to help them escape before Genesis said STFU and fucked off into a cave for three years. He can just wake up and leave whenever I think. Shinra doesn't have him on lockdown, he's just... asleep, until Mommy Minerva says go.

He is 100% sealed. That's how it's described. "Sealed." He was sealed away by Shinra. After all, Shinra siced Nero and Weiss on him for capture. Why would Shinra capture Genesis and then just leave him to fuck-off and fly away whenever he wanted to?? Yeah, Genesis let Shinra seal him away. And Shinra didn't even bother to try and run Genesis ragged in Deepground because he was deemed a threat that was so dangerous the expunged all his records.

Oh, and here it almost sounds like Genesis was added to Crisis Core specifically so Dirge's secret scene would have context lol

View attachment 12730

It seems like they never got to use Genesis for whatever he was created for.

How does this support your point...?

This shows that they included Genesis's capture by Deepground as a wraparound to serve as context for the secret ending in DC. That literally proves my point right there. Dirge of Cerberus foreshadowed Crisis Core, and Crisis Core foreshadowed Dirge of Cerberus. "The link between the two was clear." Notice how there was no grand design post Dirge of Cerberus. It was included just as context to connect these two titles and conclude the arc.

And Genesis could appear in X location which means he doesn't have to be in Remake.

If he can just show up wherever he wants, why did Shinra use Nero and Weiss to pick him up for capture? What was the point of the very scene you referenced in those interviews? You're like completely eschewing context and continuity just to justify a premise with no purpose or established cause.

He could do an Aerith and share memories with his past self rather than overriding his past self like Sephiroth did, therefore having the knowledge of his post-Dirge self while not physically being him.

This is what I'm talking about. If the threat Sephiroth posed to the Planet was so great that it would require him to act, and he was... Able to somehow break free while Shinra was literally still standing and presumably monitoring/containing him as they intended... Why would the Planet need to do it in the friggin' future when it could just do it in the present and WAKE HIS ASS UP?

What is this need to insert memories or whatever from the future when the man is literally doing nothing but sleeping and whatever threat is going on around him, could spur him to action. This makes no sense. Work within the clearly defined confines of the narrative at least. It should make some coherent sense.

Okay ignore time travel for a minute. The situation has changed from OG FF7. Sephiroth is assumedly much stronger now. Why would the planet not sic its own Jenova-celled dog at him on top of all the other stuff it does? Having him be inactive would make no sense. It's already nonsense that he wasn't involved with meteor beyond "he wasn't a character yet".

...Why would any situation regarding Sephiroth require any additional input from anyone other than Cloud and the others? This is their damn story and they are the main characters.

....

Okay but whatever, fine. The situation has "changed." You can use Genesis in his established setting and location without doing some weird convoluted time travel plot. He's literally right there in Midgar. And can be seen in Midgar. If the writers could write a coherent and in-universe means to showcase the main villains of DC in FFVII's time period, they should be capable of doing the same with Genesis. And Genesis isn't even a friggin' hero. He wouldn't help the party, nor is he some appointed guardian of the planet. He PROCLAIMS himself so. This is what unironic trolling on this subject has done.

The planet cured his degeneration out of pity and judged him unworthy during CC. But he feels, personally, that he should protect the planet out of obligation and a desire to be the hero of LOVELESS. "he decided that it is up to him, who has being left behind, to protect the world." That's not Genesis being bestowed as "protector of the planet" by the Planet himself. He gave himself that designation.

And Genesis doesn't have Jenova cells either. He carries Jenova's abilities within his own genetic factors. But he is not an actual Jenova cell recipient or carrier like Sephiroth.

I feel like the nature of his character would demand a greater role than them. They have Zero involvement with any of the OG characters until after, but Genesis is an ex-rival of Sephiroth, knew Zack and Cloud, and is now an actor for the Planet.

Nonsense. For one, Genesis's was a one-sided rival for Sephiroth. Genesis only knew Zack. And he is a self-proclaimed actor for the planet.

Roche declares himself the greatest motorcycle SOLDIER. Does that make it true?
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
KH2 was a greenlit game that they planned for and designed to exist for a continuing franchise.
No it wasn't, not when KH1 first released. Nomura wasn't sure more games would get approved after KH1, he made that concept trailer anyway. While we're on that line of thinking though, Nomura has also claimed the idea for what remake became was something he thought up while working on Crisis Core, sooo....
Dirge's secret movie was primarily a stinger for the next already in development game, Crisis Core.
I already proved this was not actually the case.
There was no overarching intent to make some new game post-DC because they wasn't a grand intention to do so. Even in the Perfect Guide interview for Dirge of Cerberus, a sequel for DC was seen as an "if." Not a "when."
No plans doesn't equal no interest. Concepts are thrown around behind the scenes that we never hear about. Remake wasn't approved until like 2013 or 2014, but we know they were thinking of it long before. You have no idea how games are made, clearly.
So assuming it has this greater overarching meaning is false. It was never intended as such because DC never even had a guaranteed sequel set in it's future.
Again, KH1's secret ending was made before a sequel was approved or conceptualized. It was a concept trailer. I assume "G" was included as a conceptual idea. Those things have potential to become projects, or not.
For 16 years that concept movie had zero thought or intention directed to it. So trying to build up this great meaning for it when even the writers never said as much is like wishing on a cheese burger. You can do it, but it makes no sense.
I showed this is not the case. They were still thinking about it as late as 2008 at the very least, after CC came out.
I'm providing as much as you, dude! :monster:
You fuck right off. I showed proof every time you asked, you've given me jack shit. Moving on.
You're making an extraordinary claim of importance for this 16 year old secret movie with no tangible evidence
I provided plenty?
and I'm pointing out how it fits just fine where it is and is completely in line with the statements from the CC Ultimania.
I showed other stuff from the CCU that shows it was both not made to tease CC, nor were they not interested in following up with Genesis. Quite the contrary.
Wow, that is so meaningful and important. What an incredible insight and expansion we saw. What year was that again? God, that was so important we didn't hear jack from that for how long again?? :awesome:

Yeah, it totally was such a grand prologue we saw it lead to what again? It was so long ago, I can't even remember...
I'd like to remind you that no new entries in FF7 were released between 2007 and 2020, and Remake was approved in 2013ish and teased in 2015. We have literally not seen the next piece of FF7 since Crisis Core until now, so who the fuck cares if it's been 16 years? Blame Square for being a bunch of slow pokes.
There are LOTS of forgotten and unused ideas in Final Fantasy, you really think every concept ends up actualized? Especially when they're nearly 2 decades old? This is FFVII Remake and we're following Cloud Strife's story in 0007. You think they're somehow fixated on stuff from an interview a decade ago?
They sure do remember that one cellphone game barely anyone played. Before... something. Can't recall.
They sure remembered Dirge enough to include Weiss and Nero, and, again, REFERENCED GENESIS' LINE FROM DIRGE'S ENDING IN WEISS' BIO.
Because I'm not making the claim of some grand importance for the tertiary antagonist here. He got awoken by Omega, a threat that was a danger to the Planet. If it happened late, so what?
You have no idea how stories are written, do you? Your claim is brain dead, that's clearly not what's going on in that scene.
You're riding on a point that's been literally forgotten for so long people didn't give two-shits about it until someone ironically meme'd Genesis so hard, that it turned unironic when Hojo mentioned having some G-Type SOLDIERs try to create a baby with Aerith.
Yeah, they ALREADY referenced Genesis in Remake. I can't believe I didn't mention that already. yeah, he's sooooooo unimportant they included a throwaway line just to reference him. Sure. "It's just a meme bro".
That one mention of "G-Type" SOLDIERs is the closest, most tangible reference to Genesis we've gotten in the Remake and it's been like a grain silo fire ever since.
YOU'RE INSISTING THEY FORGOT AND DISMISSING WHEN THEY REMEMBERED. What is your DEAL, man?
People fucking losing their minds over speculating when Genesis will return because they just are so fixated on a character that was designed with a J-Rock star's likeness. Like, it makes no sense. If he weren't carrying Gackt's likeness and didn't get shat on so badly by fandom, no one would give a shit, and this would be a non-issue. He'd be seen as another tertiary antagonist within the Compilation. But because of those two special factors, he's amassed an inordinate amount of attention.
I'm starting to think you're the insecure one with how vehemently you're against it. You get ridiculously condescending whenever you're presented with ideas that threaten your ideas of what FF7 should be, like you wrote the damned thing. And everyone else are fucking idiots for thnking any other way.
He is 100% sealed. That's how it's described. "Sealed."
PROOF PLZ??

I asked about this because I wasn't sure, and all the canon info we have about Genesis after he was taken into Deepground was that Weiss asked him to help over throw the restrictors, and Genesis told him "no" and left to sleep in a cave. AFAIK this business of him being "sealed" is something you invented. I could be wrong, but I need more than your word on this one. I've got a whole group of people working on translating all of these guides and interviews and they had no idea what you're talking about.

How did Shinra make a magic water barrier? Where are the guards? Why is he in a cave and not a facility?
Why would Shinra capture Genesis and then just leave him to fuck-off and fly away whenever he wanted to?? Yeah, Genesis let Shinra seal him away. And Shinra didn't even bother to try and run Genesis ragged in Deepground because he was deemed a threat that was so dangerous the expunged all his records.
AFAICT He just vanished and Shinra had no idea where he went. Everything else is your cool fanfic. prove me wrong.

In fact, here's something claiming Genesis sealed HIMSELF away:
1657339885441.png
1657340014632.png
and YOU PUBLISHED THIS ARTICLE lmao.

Here's our newer version for good measure
1657340118321.png

So as far as I can tell, Genesis can leave whenever he wants and go wherever he wants and you're wrong. Anyway,
How does this support your point...?
You keep claiming it was made to promote crisis core. This implies the exact opposite, and that Gensis was made to be in Crisis Core specifically to tie it and Dirge together more closely. This both emphasizes the care the devs have made into making all FF7 titles cohesive as well as shows Genesis is not just intended to be a Crisis Core character as you keep insisting, and that he has significance beyond that. Supports my point quite a bit I'd say.
If he can just show up wherever he wants, why did Shinra use Nero and Weiss to pick him up for capture? What was the point of the very scene you referenced in those interviews? You're like completely eschewing context and continuity just to justify a premise with no purpose or established cause.
I just proved you're whole premise of him being held captive is wrong, so I'm not sure I'm the one ignoring canon.

Well, he's in Sephiroth ballpark, so sending two of their strongest to go get him was probably a good idea. As said, this scene was planned from Crisis Core's conception to better tie it to Dirge, not the other way around.
This is what I'm talking about. If the threat Sephiroth posed to the Planet was so great that it would require him to act, and he was... Able to somehow break free while Shinra was literally still standing and presumably monitoring/containing him as they intended...
The second half of your premise here has been demonstrated to be false.
Why would the Planet need to do it in the friggin' future when it could just do it in the present and WAKE HIS ASS UP?
Getting Weiss involved would probably be the biggest reason beyond just connecting the Dirge scene to Remake. He was there too. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be easier to just have him wake up without the time travel stuff.
...Why would any situation regarding Sephiroth require any additional input from anyone other than Cloud and the others? This is their damn story and they are the main characters.
Because we have a big scary Sephiroth from the future and Cloud and co have failed no less than twice to put the bad man down for good? He keeps coming back, stronger than before. The Planet would probably like some extra spice.
Okay but whatever, fine. The situation has "changed."
Yes
ou can use Genesis in his established setting and location without doing some weird convoluted time travel plot.
He can leave whenever but probably
He's literally right there in Midgar. And can be seen in Midgar.
Or he could leave his self-imposed imprisonment and fly somewhere else. You are weirdly hung up on this point.
He wouldn't help the party, nor is he some appointed guardian of the planet.
He and them share a goal and you keep ignoring how the planet healed his degradation and gave him the opportunity to play hero. Whether he appointed himself with that role or not doesn't matter, the planet let him do it. He never even wanted to be evil, he was kind of forced into it by Shinra. He's certainly no good guy but he's not Sephiroth levels of megalomania.
This is what unironic trolling on this subject has done.
Man fuck off you self important boy you.
The planet cured his degeneration out of pity and judged him unworthy during CC. But he feels, personally, that he should protect the planet out of obligation and a desire to be the hero of LOVELESS.
Wow you really pissed off the fuckin team of people helping me find sources for my claims with this one lol
Evidently whatever translation you're using sucks ass.

Yours, with wrong parts bolded:
1657341504430.png

New one with correct parts bolded:

1657343908562.png
From the translator:
biggest deviations... if you want them listed out...

[Minerva's] intention was not necessarily to revive Genesis.
vs
Minerva's intentions are not the reason why Genesis survived.

conflates what Minverva actually planned to do initially when it's really that Minerva herself doesn't have to do with why Genesis survived

Genesis wanted to regain his pride as a SOLDIER, deciding that it could not be found simply in the duty of the SOLDIER, he came to the idea that ‘I am not afraid of degradation or death’.
vs
Genesis has reached a point where he is "not afraid of degradation and death" because he is determined to regain his SOLDIER Honor and fulfill his role of a SOLDIER

flipping around cause and effect, and more over
deciding that it could not be found simply in the duty of the SOLDIER,
vs
he is determined to regain his SOLDIER Honor and fulfill his role of a SOLDIER

JP says Genesis wanted to regain his SOLDIER Honor and that is what saves him, not that his duty could not be found in doing his role as a SOLDIER. So TLSs is saying that he decided he was going to transcend death while JP is saying that he abandoned the idea of transcending death to regain his SOLDIER Honor... and that is what ironically gets him what he wanted the whole time he's not afraid of dying because he now has a bigger goal than that.

‘Genesis still has much left to learn’.”
vs
something remains for Genesis to accomplish

This one confused the heck out of me. There is nothing in the JP that says anything about Genesis needing to learn anything, I don't know where that comes from. It's instead the idea of Genesis still having a goal or mission or just... stuff in general left he has to finish doing. So yeah, that one is really weird and makes Genesis out to be... more boneheaded than he actually is. One is "you've not leaned what you should yet" while the other is "you want to do this role and you've not finished doing it yet" When... Genesis is just finally getting a chance to even do the the role he really wants to do in the first place. So yeah, super weird this one. No idea how TLS got that out of it.

Thus, [because of that decision] Genesis was able to achieve his goal of ‘surmounting death.’
vs
In this way, Genesis "overcame death" with the intention of carrying out its [the Lifestream's] mission.

The exact goal/mission is not mentioned here, however "Genesis" is the subject of "overcoming death". JP is about why Genesis wanted to "overcome death" rather than what goal he was looking for. Genesis' goal by the end was not "to overcome death", it was "to regain his SOLDIER honor". Overcoming death wound up being something the Lifestream let him have so he could actually do that.
So, it seems your whole idea of Genesis "not being worthy" is predicated on a bad translation, as the whole bit about him needing to learn a lesson is not in the Japanese. Also note the insistence Genesis' job is not done.
That's not Genesis being bestowed as "protector of the planet" by the Planet himself. He gave himself that designation.
By healing him and letting him live up to his SOLDIER honor, the planet is allowing him to fill that role. Obviously it doesn't speak, but there's a reason why he chose that path. He's not as self-righteous as you make him out to be.
And Genesis doesn't have Jenova cells either. He carries Jenova's abilities within his own genetic factors. But he is not an actual Jenova cell recipient or carrier like Sephiroth.
He recieved Gillian's cell's, which would've been infused with Jenova's as part of Project G. After being deemed a failure, he went on to enlist in SOLDIER normally, which involves getting bathed in Mako and injected with Jenova cells. I guess I can't prove that but until canon says otherwise there's no reason to think so.
Nonsense. For one, Genesis's was a one-sided rival for Sephiroth. Genesis only knew Zack. And he is a self-proclaimed actor for the planet.
Last point has been made moot, even if he proclaimed it himself the planet let him do it and encouraged it. Genesis did meet Cloud a few times, specifically while Zack was on the run. Mako poisoned or not he'd recognize him. I don't see why it being one-sided matters, he still doesn't like Sephiroth so that's just a bonus for him.
Roche declares himself the greatest motorcycle SOLDIER. Does that make it true?
If Roche's motorcycle cured his space AIDs so he could keep on being the best biker, I'd say there's reason to believe so.

It's 1 AM, fuck this lol.
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
Man I hope nobody reads these but us two butting heads. They're both getting way too long and the attitude I'm taking up is getting shitty. Sorry. No online arguments all day anymore.

I began to read but then stopped. I decided I clearly live in an alternate reality; no matter what Ody, YOU said you wanted shippers to not have what they wanted, but I'll get my GS date, my Northern Crater, my Lifestream scene and my Cloud and Tifa making out under the Highwind (IDK why people wouldn't want that tbh!). I am certainly not sure about the craziest theories I've read those past days at TLS tho, and that includes Genesis other than in some VR form (to what? Make us die of boredom with his lines?).
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
No it wasn't, not when KH1 first released. Nomura wasn't sure more games would get approved after KH1, he made that concept trailer anyway. While we're on that line of thinking though, Nomura has also claimed the idea for what remake became was something he thought up while working on Crisis Core, sooo....

You referenced "Another Side, Another Story." That was the KH1 Final Mix secret movie in 2002. The writers had to have known there was a sequel coming to release that in the director's cut re-release, especially since KH Chain of Memories was then announced and showcased along with a teaser for KH2 back at the Tokyo Game Show 2003 on September 26.

You sure you're not thinking of the very first KH secret movie that was released in the original?

Anyways, yeah Nomura had the Remake in mind back in CC, but how would that be tied all the way to Dirge of Cerberus when it was the future post-AC?

I already proved this was not actually the case.

You're saying seeds were planted, and that very well could be the case... But how do you know they're seeds for a time-traveling Genesis to somehow go back to the FFVII story in the Remake? How can you know it's that? There very well could be an idea for it, but to somehow believe it's that for sure is wild speculation.

No plans doesn't equal no interest. Concepts are thrown around behind the scenes that we never hear about. Remake wasn't approved until like 2013 or 2014, but we know they were thinking of it long before. You have no idea how games are made, clearly.

Again, KH1's secret ending was made before a sequel was approved or conceptualized. It was a concept trailer. I assume "G" was included as a conceptual idea. Those things have potential to become projects, or not.

It's not that I "don't know games are made" but I'm pointing out the fact that you're making a huge assumption that the meaning or purpose of this scene is that. I already pointed out the prospect of there being a sequel post-DC was an "if", not "when" meaning there was some idea. But to somehow assume it was the Remake proper is a huge leap in speculation itself.

You fuck right off. I showed proof every time you asked, you've given me jack shit. Moving on.

I asked for proof that that secret video from Dirge of Cerberus was proof of Genesis coming into the story of FFVII Remake. There is none. So that's why I've said you've shown none. My point has always been that there isn't any because it wasn't ever designed with that in mind. It's just Genesis in a stinger video, teasing whatever, for his next role in Crisis Core. What's the proof that Genesis there is meant for the Remake as his ultimate confrontation?

I showed other stuff from the CCU that shows it was both not made to tease CC, nor were they not interested in following up with Genesis. Quite the contrary.

The writers say in the CC Ultimania that I linked, that it was made to tease and subvert expectations over his character in CC, and what you've shown also shows they had something in mind. Yeah, they had something in mind.... But again, what makes you think it's a combination of both of those intents with Genesis and the Remake itself?

I'd like to remind you that no new entries in FF7 were released between 2007 and 2020, and Remake was approved in 2013ish and teased in 2015. We have literally not seen the next piece of FF7 since Crisis Core until now, so who the fuck cares if it's been 16 years? Blame Square for being a bunch of slow pokes.

Oh I am aware. And that's exactly my point. It was abandoned. Why do you think that is? If they had this nebulous idea over Genesis but then abandoned it and then they come back to FFVII in 2015 and it's no longer even being used, referenced or hyped.. What does that imply?

If this idea was so important, why would it not be hyped or advertised like it was when it was first conceived and inked back in 2005 with "Project G?" Would that not be worth the actual advertisement if it's so incredibly important to the Remake itself?

They sure do remember that one cellphone game barely anyone played. Before... something. Can't recall.

Because Before Crisis was a main entry in the Compilation which featured the main characters, and featured the important event of Avalanche vs Shinra. Like, it was a huge deal given it's context. This was a whole game, not commentary from an interview which featured some of the concepts they had over a likely dropped potential sequel that would have happened post-DC.

They sure remembered Dirge enough to include Weiss and Nero, and, again, REFERENCED GENESIS' LINE FROM DIRGE'S ENDING IN WEISS' BIO.

The phrase, "rising the curtain on the final act" is a common saying/expression for a climactic event or confrontation. For one, if that was meant to explicitly reference Genesis, why was Genesis not featured at all in Intermission? Why would that phrase not be localized or even referenced at all anywhere else? Is it not possible that was simply a coincidence in terms of terminology?

You have no idea how stories are written, do you? Your claim is brain dead, that's clearly not what's going on in that scene.

So, rather than conclude that the threat to the planet that was shown in DC awakened Genesis, you believe it's another unseen threat with no definitive attribution or cause shown at the time. Instead, you think it's actually from the past of FFVII, which Genesis was technically apart of, meaning the writers had the idea for Sephiroth and his time travel scheme somehow all the way back in 2006-2007.

Or, the writers just decided to hitch that idea onto the DC Secret Ending for...Whatever reason.

My idea is somehow "braindead" because it goes for the simplest, most streamlined and cogent attribution regarding a "threat" being the cause of Genesis's awakening... Okay!

Yeah, they ALREADY referenced Genesis in Remake. I can't believe I didn't mention that already. yeah, he's sooooooo unimportant they included a throwaway line just to reference him. Sure. "It's just a meme bro".

YOU'RE INSISTING THEY FORGOT AND DISMISSING WHEN THEY REMEMBERED. What is your DEAL, man?

I didn't say he was "sooooo unimportant." I said he's been given an inordinate amount of attention. Because, I feel he has. Yes, Genesis has been memed. Hard. You're going to deny that now, when someone literally just admitted to it here? You think that's the only example of that type of behavior? I'm merely pointing out the obvious. You're the one getting heated over a character you somehow claim to not care about.

I'm starting to think you're the insecure one with how vehemently you're against it. You get ridiculously condescending whenever you're presented with ideas that threaten your ideas of what FF7 should be, like you wrote the damned thing. And everyone else are fucking idiots for thnking any other way.

I have an opinion. That's not insecure, that's.. An opinion I'm backing up. How is it condescending? I'm not the one calling folks "braindead" here, am I?

PROOF PLZ??

AFAICT He just vanished and Shinra had no idea where he went. Everything else is your cool fanfic. prove me wrong.

Q7-3: You call tell from the voices that the two men who appear by helicopter and recover Genesis are DC’s Nero and Weiss, but what do they mean when they say “apparently he’s a brother of ours” and “however… will he agree to it?”? From DC’s hidden movie you can interpret that Genesis has been laid to rest in the cave under Midgar up until he awakens, but…?
A7-3: The ‘elder brother’ is used in the figurative sense. If they are injected with Genesis’ genes, that creates a connection, a bond between the cellular units. That is what is meant by ‘brother’.
In CC Nero and Weiss are on a mission to recover Genesis, so in this case “will he agree to it?” means “will he agree to join us or not?” But, as in the response for A6-3, Genesis rejects it and decides to have himself sealed in the water-filled chamber below Midgar.


Emphasis mine. It's also described as a "seal" several other times within that same interview.



In fact, here's something claiming Genesis sealed HIMSELF away:

...If you actually read the post you quoted, you'll see I said he let himself be sealed.

Me said:
Yeah, Genesis let Shinra seal him away. And Shinra didn't even bother to try and run Genesis ragged in Deepground because he was deemed a threat that was so dangerous the expunged all his records.


Here's our newer version for good measure
View attachment 12733

So as far as I can tell, Genesis can leave whenever he wants and go wherever he wants and you're wrong. Anyway,

That doesn't say anything about his capability of being free to roam or not. The quote I made already said he let himself be sealed away, meaning.... He's sealed up. Regardless of how he may have been sealed, he is characterized as being sealed. It can be of his own volition but a sealing nonetheless.

You keep claiming it was made to promote crisis core. This implies the exact opposite, and that Gensis was made to be in Crisis Core specifically to tie it and Dirge together more closely. This both emphasizes the care the devs have made into making all FF7 titles cohesive as well as shows Genesis is not just intended to be a Crisis Core character as you keep insisting, and that he has significance beyond that. Supports my point quite a bit I'd say.

To someone who has only played DC, when they watch the secret movie in that game they will take it as “an ominous being sealed in a water-filled chamber has been release onto the world”, but if you watch the movie again after having completed CC then one could go 180 degrees and interpret it in a completely different way.

That's a post-credit stinger meant to lead into the next story, introduce the next antagonist, and further contextualize his role in that story while simultaneously subverting the expectations of his role after seeing him within the story he was showcased in. How is that not a "promotion" again?

I just proved you're whole premise of him being held captive is wrong, so I'm not sure I'm the one ignoring canon.

No... You actually didn't. He's still stated numerous times as being "sealed."


Man fuck off you self important boy you.

If you're going to just ad hominem attack someone for an opinion, it'd make sense to at least have a reason why. Claiming other people have trolled by calling Genesis an actual hero when his entire crux of character was him vaingloriously pursuing the superficial celebrity status that Sephiroth achieved does not make someone "self important." Nor was that even in reference to you, so what are you even talking about?

Wow you really pissed off the fuckin team of people helping me find sources for my claims with this one lol
Evidently whatever translation you're using sucks ass.

You know....Hitoshura made those translations, so if you're going to insult someone's hard work, you should at least know who did it first. You should actually tell him that rather than just insulting it behind his back.

By healing him and letting him live up to his SOLDIER honor, the planet is allowing him to fill that role. Obviously it doesn't speak, but there's a reason why he chose that path. He's not as self-righteous as you make him out to be.

I mean, maybe. It's "allowing him" to fulfill his self appointed role by not stopping him, and yes the Lifestream did heal him. But it's pretty clear he was rebuked by Minerva in the scene where he's cured. That's not a ringing endorsement. And I would say he's self-righteous given the fact he literally orchestrated an elaborate scheme to make himself the hero and went on a global tirade to try to cure his degradation, even claiming that if the life of the world threatens his life, he will threaten their lives.

He recieved Gillian's cell's, which would've been infused with Jenova's as part of Project G. After being deemed a failure, he went on to enlist in SOLDIER normally, which involves getting bathed in Mako and injected with Jenova cells. I guess I can't prove that but until canon says otherwise there's no reason to think so.

And yes, he received Gillian's cells which incorporated the genetic factors of Jenova. That's not the same thing as having actual Jenova cells. This was actually discussed at length before. Genesis doesn't carry Jenova cells, his body has incorporated it's abilities and genetic factors but he's not a true Jenova spawn like Sephiroth, because he wasn't created like Sephiroth. Hence the reason his cells degrade. They can't handle that kind of power.

Man I hope nobody reads these but us two butting heads. They're both getting way too long and the attitude I'm taking up is getting shitty. Sorry. No online arguments all day anymore.

Fair enough!
 
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cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
Translation #1:
Genesis seals himself in the flooded chamber of his own volition.

Translation #2:
Genesis voluntarily sealed himself away in a water prison.

Mako:
He was sealed away by Shinra.

Incredible.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Translation #1:
Genesis seals himself in the flooded chamber of his own volition.

Translation #2:
Genesis voluntarily sealed himself away in a water prison.

Mako:
He was sealed away by Shinra.

Incredible.

....So who captured Genesis and covered up his existence?

And why is he below Midgar?

If Shinra didn't know or have a hand in it, why would the G Reports state that he "slumbers below Midgar?"
 
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