Remake or Reboot of FFVII

[Danseru-kun]

Genesis threatening to be a serial killer is most certainly not the same as the likes of Meteor or Omega.

I think with a little tweaking, Genesis could be someone not as hateable as he is now. I like that everything he does is purely personal and he imagines himself as a character in the book he's obsessing with. That's a good idea by itself but... well the writing didn't really made this idea shine nicely.

 

[ForceStealer]

Right, Crisis Core was a more personal story. The size and scope of the Genesis Army was too big and clashed with that. But it still didn't fall headlong into the FATE OF THE WORLD trap that DC (and apparently BC) fell into.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Genesis threatening to be a serial killer is most certainly not the same as the likes of Meteor or Omega.

"Threatening to be a serial killer"? The man was already a mass murderer.

Banora. The hundreds -- perhaps as many as a thousand -- of his fellow SOLDIERs who trusted him, only to be turned into monstrous slaves. All the citizens who got caught in the crossfire when he attacked Junon and Midgar.

He committed genocide on a scale Sephiroth wouldn't come close to touching until geostigma.

To not take him seriously would be like a hooker laughing off a threat from Jack the Ripper.

Right, Crisis Core was a more personal story. The size and scope of the Genesis Army was too big and clashed with that. But it still didn't fall headlong into the FATE OF THE WORLD trap that DC (and apparently BC) fell into.

We meet up with Lazard and he says he now feels a desire like saving the world. We soon thereafter have a showdown with Genesis, and he talks about sending everyone back to the Lifestream.

Either there is a massive narrative disconnect here, or CC fell into the same trap.

 

[Shademp]

We soon thereafter have a showdown with Genesis, and he talks about sending everyone back to the Lifestream.

When did he say this? All he says is "We will all join the Lifestream. You...are no exception. The Planet...has become my guardian."

Genesis's goal was to re-enact Loveless and to cure his degradation. I can't recall a single time he talked about sending people back to the Lifestream, nor do I remember it as a point in any of the Ultimanias. His one sentence about the Lifestream just seems to be a generic statement. It seems more to foreshadow Zack's death than anything else.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

It was technically Lazard who wanted to save the world and Genesis and I actually don't get it , Zack just wanted to save Genesis.

And I think that's what's wrong... I can understand Zack sparing his life but the earnest desire to save Genesis well seems not very much explored to me.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'll need to double check, but I think Genesis's line about returning to the Lifestream was a lot more threatening in the Japanese. I'll get back about this.

 

[ForceStealer]

I thought he said something about "taking the world with him" if he couldn't cure his degredation I think. I don't see how he would be capable of that.

And his killcount is not the same as being a worldending calamity. A few hundred SOLDIERs? How many Shinra troops have Cloud and Avalanche killed?

 

[Shademp]

I thought he said something about "taking the world with him" if he couldn't cure his degredation I think. I don't see how he would be capable of that.

Ah yes, I had forgotten. He says it at least twice.

First, before his fake suicide in Modeoheim. (How anyone could believe that Genesis died is beyond me)
"If this world seeks my destruction...
...it goes with me."

Video

To me, this sentiment reflects that Genesis doesn't care who or how many stand in his way.


Second, when you fight Genesis's final form in Banora, when he executes his attack "Apocalypse".

"I'll take the world with me!"

Easy to miss because most will have Genesis defeated in the blink of an eye (on normal difficulty, that is). Again, Genesis would destroy the world if he had to, but it doesn't appear to be his goal in Crisis Core.


Anyway, this was all wonderfully off-topic. *leaves*

 

[Danseru-kun]

I dunno I never get the impression that Genesis killed the whole village of Banora, the dialogue only mentions that the graves were Genesis' parents. Tseng also said the villagers must have been hostaged.

Tseng: Any trace of this deplorable event will be erased. That's the method the company has decided on. There will be an aerial bombing on this village. Back at Angeal's home was there really no one there?

It was Shinra that ultimately killed everyone in Banora, if the people are still out there. As for Junon and Shinra HQ, they're military strongholds and far from Nibelheim a so I really don't think Genesis genocidal at all. , it's just him and Shinra and his targets aren't civilians.

His worst crime is to convert Soldiers into his clones, that's pretty evil in itself but I doubt he could forcefully convert them all, I think it's plausible they volunteered to get Genesis' power.

Yeah let's tranfer this to the CC thread.

 

[Shademp]

I dunno I never get the impression that Genesis killed the whole village of Banora, the dialogue only mentions that the graves were Genesis' parents. Tseng also said the villagers must have been hostaged.

Angeal's mother tells Zack that Genesis arrived with an army of cohorts and that 'they started killing the townspeople'. Genesis is responsible for the massacre in Banora, but we never actually get to see it. *leaves for real now*

 

[Danseru-kun]

Last haha

Okay thanks for that. Well I also got the impression that Banora people are Shinra employees, still wrong to kill them though.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If folks want, I'll split this discussion out into another thread.



Anyway, here's what Genesis says in the Japanese script about returning to the Lifestream:

みんな　星に帰るのさ

It's basically just "Everyone returns to the Planet" or "Everyone will return to the Planet," but the way he pauses after he says みんな ("everyone") came off as threatening to me. It's as though he's addressing "everyone" in that line, not Zack. That sort of pause is used a lot when addressing someone.

It makes me take the line as "Everyone, let's return to the Planet." Others may interpret it differently, though.

In either case, I think it goes right along with what he says on multiple occasions:

(right before the fight with Genesis in Modeoheim)

Hollander: "But...nobody knows where the Jenova cells are being kept!
Not even Hojo knows. You'll never find it!"

Genesis: "Then I shall willingly accept my fate.
But, I'll take the world with me!"

(right after the fight with Genesis in Modeoheim)

"If this world seeks my destruction...
...it goes with me."

And, as Shademp posted, he continues saying "I'll take the world with me!" even during the final battle with him when he uses Apocalypse. And this is immediately after that "Everyone, let's return to the Planet" thing.

Yeah, I'm going to go with he wanted to kill everybody.

And his killcount is not the same as being a worldending calamity. A few hundred SOLDIERs? How many Shinra troops have Cloud and Avalanche killed?

A world-ending calamity that didn't end anything, you mean. Genesis's murder count stands higher until Sephiroth begins infecting people with geostigma.


As for the point about Cloud and co. killing Shin-Ra troops, I thought we were discussing murder here. Most -- if not all -- of their Shin-Ra kills are justifiable to some degree.

His worst crime is to convert Soldiers into his clones, that's pretty evil in itself but I doubt he could forcefully convert them all, I think it's plausible they volunteered to get Genesis' power.

They certainly wouldn't have volunteered if they knew they would become mindless, deteriorating slaves. He took their autonomy and gave their zombified remains a death sentence.

Well I also got the impression that Banora people are Shinra employees, still wrong to kill them though.

It started out that way, but became autonomous before Genesis and Angeal were even born. The only people in the village who even knew of their connection to Shin-Ra were Genesis's parents, Gillian, and the town trustees.

 

[ForceStealer]

He WANTED to take everyone down with him only if he couldn't heal himself. But wanting and being able are very different things. All the things Genesis did he did before Shinra knew what was happening. He was never a threat to Planet at large.

Shinra, by the way, has more blood on their hands than Genesis and Sephiroth combined before Crisis Core even starts.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Agreed on both points. Genesis just successfully convinced me he would pose a legitimate enough threat to the world at large that stopping him qualifies as "saving the world" -- or at least a large chunk of it.

 

[Unlucky]

Tres has already summed things up pretty well and I agree with him. Sure, Genesis wasn't successful as Fuhito or Weiss, but that doesn't make him any less of a threat.

On sympathizing with him, I just felt that CC was trying to paint him as a sad, misunderstood character, and so it's like convincing us that he doesn't deserve the fate of an evil villain, because he really isn't evil. And that just doesn't sit well with me, being shown the things he's done.

Anyway, this was all wonderfully off-topic. *leaves*

I-It's totally not my fault. *runs*

 

[AvecAloes]

I dunno, I saw him more as a crazy person than a misunderstood person.

 

[Unlucky]

I saw him as a wangsty bitch.

 

[Tetsujin]

I hated the fucking Gackt clone army.

And I'm a huge Gackt fan.

But this...no. Just no. =/

 

[jazzflower92]

I saw him as a wangsty bitch.

Not to mention I found him to be very ungrateful towards his adopted parents.I know that they were connected with Shinra but at least they gave him some sorta of a healthy,normal life and childhood.Genesis really comes off as a self entitled jerk who seems to only care about himself.Thats why I really found it a crop out that they were trying to depict him as being mistunderstood and sympathetic.

Genesis is just a Villain Sue who really deserved to die in the end but didn't.Genesis is not so different from Evil Sephiroth when it comes down to it.But for some inane reason they think he can be potrayed as being redeamable.It could be the fact his evil atrocities are shown off screen so it won't leave an impact on the players as much as Nilbhelmn did.

 

[Drax]

I will say he had the scariest last dungeon in a Final Fantasy. Emerald Weapon just felt like he was going to come off the wall and attack me, I hated grinding in that room. And those Jenova beast things that would run up too fast before you could really do anything.

All that and then Genesis has a small room near the entrance that's set up like an innocent science fair trophy room. I'm sure it was cozy hearing all those monster noises in the caves while he sat and chilled out. How lovecraftian.

I guess to tie this back to a remake, the weapons freak me the hell out. I bet they'd make grooning noises or something and eat live cattle. Not looking forward to how they'd look redesigned.

 

[ForceStealer]

Not to mention I found him to be very ungrateful towards his adopted parents.I know that they were connected with Shinra but at least they gave him some sorta of a healthy,normal life and childhood.Genesis really comes off as a self entitled jerk who seems to only care about himself.Thats why I really found it a crop out that they were trying to depict him as being mistunderstood and sympathetic.

Genesis is just a Villain Sue who really deserved to die in the end but didn't.Genesis is not so different from Evil Sephiroth when it comes down to it.But for some inane reason they think he can be potrayed as being redeamable.It could be the fact his evil atrocities are shown off screen so it won't leave an impact on the players as much as Nilbhelmn did.

I still think you're pulling this out of your ass no matter how many times you repeat it.

 

[SirVival]

Reboot, Remake, just fucking make something. The OG is since a long time ruined by this half-assed compilation, which people can nevertheless like, so why not cash the fans for some more money. I have no expectations for the quality of SE games. It just makes me so sad.

 

[Poe-Lantern]

Genesis - sealed beneath Midgar, erased from historical record.

Deepground - highly classified (only 3 people even know it exists) - sealed underground.

New Turks - MIA/in hiding

Run it by me again why they would have to incorporate all this? Or indeed even HOW they would?

Okay, you are right then no Genesis, no DeepGround. I read somewhere that the Turks helped evacuate Midgar, that could be incorporated in the game. Maybe. Just a little bit of incorporation would be nice IMO.

But also I think I would rather they complete the compilation. Give it an ending. Just my two pennies.

Whatever, I can't sleep
As you were.

 

[JayM]

...but imagine how fucking creepy they could make the parts where Sephiroth's controlling Cloud. I MEAN. If they cared. I would almost suffer the retcons if they did a good job of that.

But also I think I would rather they complete the compilation. Give it an ending.

It's HAD endings, though. FFVII, though open to interpretation, has a definite ending. Advent Children also has a definite ending. Dirge of Cerberus even has an ending. They aren't making sequels because the current endings are genuinely open-ended (with the exception of Genesis post-Dirge but honestly does anyone want a game based on that??), they're making sequels because it's a cash cow.

And, I mean, I say this as a total fangirl who would gladly fork over said cash; I'll buy every damn compilation title they churn out, because I'm easy like that. But NONE of the compilation was ever necessary to complete the story, IMO.

 

[Soakette]

I read somewhere that the Turks helped evacuate Midgar, that could be incorporated in the game. Maybe. Just a little bit of incorporation would be nice IMO.

The Turks from BC helped evacuate Midgar, in CoS They are still alive and help Veld out from time to time and Veld says (to reno I think when he asks where the other Turks are) that they have all moved on with their lives and to not expect them to come back to Shinra. Although It would be interesting if they all came back when they find out the Shinra is "reformed". But probably not.