Pride. Every time he comes back, he comes back with a massive power boost and says to himself "This time I'm really too strong, if I don't hold back to... oh let's say 45% power then I'll turn Cloud to jelly before he can suffer. I must hold back or he won't get the point that he's a weak little worm who could never SON OF A BITCH HE KILLED ME AGAIN BLARGHLELEARGH!"
I still take issue with Sephiroth "holding back" and "toying" concepts. I do understand the point, but I think it's just the semantics that get caught up in my head. Yes, Sephiroth didn't utilize his magical abilities (much). But he wanted to beat Cloud as a swordsman, and in that capacity I don't believe that he held back at all. He used all of his swordsmanship abilities and went for the kill a couple times. ACC eliminated the only time he REALLY pulled a punch.
Pride. Every time he comes back, he comes back with a massive power boost and says to himself "This time I'm really too strong, if I don't hold back to... oh let's say 45% power then I'll turn Cloud to jelly before he can suffer. I must hold back or he won't get the point that he's a weak little worm who could never SON OF A BITCH HE KILLED ME AGAIN BLARGHLELEARGH!"
^lololol True, that. Pride and stubbornness. Come to think of it, he could destroy Cloud if he wanted to right away. But he revels so much in proving how much power he has over Cloud that he needed to see Cloud realize this and suffer before finishing him. And this sure bit him in those glorious buttcheeks
Yeah,I mean it seems that all Sephiroth now wants to do is to dominate Cloud in anyway or means with the added bonus of doing what Jenova did in the past which is go planet hoping and sucking any planet dry.
I still take issue with Sephiroth "holding back" and "toying" concepts. I do understand the point, but I think it's just the semantics that get caught up in my head. Yes, Sephiroth didn't utilize his magical abilities (much). But he wanted to beat Cloud as a swordsman, and in that capacity I don't believe that he held back at all. He used all of his swordsmanship abilities and went for the kill a couple times. ACC eliminated the only time he REALLY pulled a punch.
I think the start of most debates come from a misunderstanding of what is meant when people say Sephiroth wa sholding back.
We don't mean, or at least I don't mean, that Sephiroth was holding back in term of strength, or that he wasn't seriously aiming to kill Cloud. Rather its more of a mindset. yeah, he's gonna kill Cloud, but he doesn't want it done to quick. Cloud doesn't deserve to die easy in Sephiroth's eyes.
Sephiroth wants Cloud's death to be as painful and as humiliating as possible. He wants Cloud to know that Sephiroth is superior to him. He wants Cloud to die in despair, knowing that he failed to protect that which he cherished most.
For the record I don't believe Sephiroth was holding back in terms of physical strength during the duel. I don't really believe Sephiroth has held back much in the way of physical strength in any of his major battles, such as his fights against Genesis or Zack.
Yeah, "holding back" doesn't entail that he didn't mean to see Cloud dead. It just means he wasn't throwing down everything he had from the start like Cloud and taking the first kill shot he could -- again, like Cloud.
You didn't see Cloud wait a full twenty seconds between getting Seph on the ropes and delivering the final blow, nor did he wait to punctuate said killing shot with "Go back where you belong. My memories." That's the difference in how they fought that battle, and is the difference between holding back and playing for keeps.
Sephiroth wasn't going to kill Cloud until he had said "Give me the pleasure of taking it away?" so that Cloud's last thought would be of the people he loved but had failed to protect. Cloud delivered his final line to Seph after the killing shot, and it was more for himself than for Sephiroth.
Yeah, "holding back" doesn't entail that he didn't mean to see Cloud dead. It just means he wasn't throwing down everything he had from the start like Cloud and taking the first kill shot he could -- again, like Cloud.
You didn't see Cloud wait a full twenty seconds between getting Seph on the ropes and delivering the final blow, nor did he wait to punctuate said killing shot with "Go back where you belong. My memories." That's the difference in how they fought that battle, and is the difference between holding back and playing for keeps.
Sephiroth wasn't going to kill Cloud until he had said "Give me the pleasure of taking it away?" so that Cloud's last thought would be of the people he loved but had failed to protect. Cloud delivered his final line to Seph after the killing shot, and it was more for himself than for Sephiroth.
Oh you can bet Sephiroth's gonna learn in the next Compilation title, FFVII: EC
....Final Fantasy VII: Extended Coverage, of course!!
The new Social Mobile Game produced by Mobage!! You'll get to settle things with Sephiroth once and for all on the free to play mobile app game that has no sound and wonderful half assed KH Mobile graphics..
...once you pay 10 dollars to unlock the Sephiroth Quest that you get to play for about a week...
Can't wait for Square to continue this epic story!
Instead of adding new stuff I prefer that this new SE president makes a drastic move and uncanonizes Crisis Core, BC and Dirge. And perhaps start all over again with the Compilation.
Instead of adding new stuff I prefer that this new SE president makes a drastic move and uncanonizes Crisis Core, BC and Dirge. And perhaps start all over again with the Compilation.
Instead of adding new stuff I prefer that this new SE president makes a drastic move and uncanonizes Crisis Core, BC and Dirge. And perhaps start all over again with the Compilation.
I'd rather see these titles "remade/remastered". They can publish the titles under the same names as before, with the same skeletons remaining but with improved scripts and game design. Scenes could be added that better tell the stories while some superfluous stuff could be omitted.
I don't want Square to start all over because then that would mean all the book-keeping done with the previous canon was for naught. Imagine instead how easy it would be to rewrite some NPC scripts and the G Reports in Dirge of Cerberus to easier fit with Crisis Core.
(I say "easier" because some would argue that DoC and CC technically do not contradict each other)
Or how easy it would be to diminish the number of missions in Crisis Core and find ways to diversify them.
I don't see the Compilation as a turd that can't be polished. It's a highly imperfect piece of asymmetric rock that could be carved into a decent statue. Give me "Crisis Core Complete" and "Dirge of Cerberus Complete" instead of turning the rock into dust.
I'd rather see these titles "remade/remastered". They can publish the titles under the same names as before, with the same skeletons remaining but with improved scripts and game design. Scenes could be added that better tell the stories while some superfluous stuff could be omitted.
I don't want Square to start all over because then that would mean all the book-keeping done with the previous canon was for naught. Imagine instead how easy it would be to rewrite some NPC scripts and the G Reports in Dirge of Cerberus to easier fit with Crisis Core.
(I say "easier" because some would argue that DoC and CC technically do not contradict each other)
Or how easy it would be to diminish the number of missions in Crisis Core and find ways to diversify them.
I don't see the Compilation as a turd that can't be polished. It's a highly imperfect peace of asymmetric rock that could be carved into a decent statue.
First of all I believe we should omit Genesis and just focus on Angeal who I think would have been a more interesting character to have as the main antagonist.Also omit Grimoire Valentine because he was more of a plot device for drama instead of a real character.Another thing is put Gast in Dirge of Cerebrus and have it be that Lucrecia only married Hojo out of pity because she felt he suffered a inferiotity complex when it came to Gast.
TBH, Angeal board me. I've seen his character archetype too often to want more of it without a contrasting character. I also feel his character would have to be changed to much for that to work. Genesis actually has some potential to be a good character if the writing was better; you wouldn't really have to change his character at all.
Angeal's the type of person who can't stand what he's become so he commits suicide, via Zack of all people. Genesis can't stand what he's become so he tries to fix it, with bad results. My respect for Angeal that I had at the start of the game because he was the most level-headed character quickly faded when I saw what his reaction was to finding out he was an experiment. My respect for Genesis stayed about the same for the entire game.
The Compilation has been around to long for SE to start from scratch. Re-releasing the same games with cleaned-up scripts/lore/etc. would probably be the best way to go.
@'polishing' the Compilation: I get the point and I did think of the idea before. But tbh there's so much stuff in CC, imo, that either needs to be completely changed or ditched for it to be considered decent, by me at least. If you ask me, it's going to need an extensive overhaul so might as well morph the story into a completely new one. BC and CC are unnecessary and bad additions.
*Waves his pro-Crisis Core flag alone in a corner* >.>
Now DC or BC, we can talk about for days. But I just never had that much of a problem with CC. Maybe because it was just actually fun and I like Zack.
Oh well, not to worry. It's not like Square's going to be making any real games anymore, unless it's fucking handheld one-shots or cell phone games. Or cell phone games ported into handheld games.
LOL Jesus Christ what's happened to you, Square...
@'polishing' the Compilation: I get the point and I did think of the idea before. But tbh there's so much stuff in CC, imo, that either needs to be completely changed or ditched for it to be considered decent, by me at least. If you ask me, it's going to need an extensive overhaul so might as well morph the story into a completely new one. BC and CC are unnecessary and bad additions.
Gonna assume you have yet to play Dirge of Cerberus to be talking like that about Crisis Core. Angeal and Genesis can both fade away and be forgotten in any additional material that is released as far as I'm concerned. The Compilation is always at it's most compelling when it just offered more interaction between existing characters. I like what they did with Tseng, Zack, Reeve and Rufus for instance.
Hell, I can put up with Genesis carrying the main plot of the next game as long as the entirety of Avalanche and the Turks are involved, you can revisit locations and NPC characters we're familiar with are given loads of new dialogue after every event.
I did, though I didn't finish it. But I watched the cutscenes.
My problem mainly lies on the existing sucky storyline. So even if every character I hate ends up being forgotten in the next titles to come, it's not gonna erase the fact that I have gripes with the canon.
Going back to the original topic.Did the label of hero really fit the pre-Nibelheimn Sephiroth or was it just a title made to sell him as a poster boy for Shinra's cause?I think maybe it could be a little of both in a way.He did take many of the missions he was asssigned except in the case where it involved tracking down his friends.On the other hand when one looks at the Wutai War and see how really questionably it was one could think that Sephiroth's image was to obscure the fact about how wrong it was.Sephiorth wasn't a robot like many of you said but at the same time before the truth was revealed he was kinda of in a way only loyal to the company because they have basically been his major authority throughout his life.
Well, if we were gonna remake the compilation I think not that much would need to be changed.
For CC you'd just have to drop loveless and shift the whole man vs monster thing to be symbolic rather than literal, alter Aerith's dialogue and attitude to better fit the OG, and undo the retcons surrounding the Nibelheim incident.
Once you do that CC would be pretty damn good. Although I'm one of those guys who thinks CC was a decent game as is. Not so good as a prequel I suppose, but still enjoyable in its own way.
BC could also be polished fairly easily I think.
Really, the problems with those two titles was down to execution vs concept. Good ideas, poor implentation.
AC could stand to have the number of fights reduced, have more focus on plot and character, and bring Avalanche in sooner. The ffnal battle could also be reworked. Omnislash Version 5/6 feels like a lazy way to have Cloud win the fight to me. I would have liked to see the others leap to Cloud's aid in the moment when Sephiroth dived for the killing stroke, distracting Sephiroth just long enough for Cloud to get up and launch the killing strike. It would better fit the theme of Cloud discovering that he isn't alone better.
Also a greater emphasis on Geostigma and its victims instead of Kadaj and his group.
Dirge would be the hardest to really clean up I think. I'm sure its doable, but damn it would be tough.
I think they also should have eliminated Hollander who is really an unnessary character.How about put more emphasis on Gast in the Compliation and have Hojo a stronger presence in CC.Also probably keep the implication that Hojo was behind the Nibelheim reactor being busted.
Also I think CC should have been more about Zack having growing doubts about Shinra and about their morality.Maybe there should have been more insight on the aftermath of the Wutai War as well.Probably showing how Shinra's victory over the country really messed them up.Of course they should have made more time to show his friendship with Cloud.
True, that. Pride and stubbornness. Come to think of it, he could destroy Cloud if he wanted to right away. But he revels so much in proving how much power he has over Cloud that he needed to see Cloud realize this and suffer before finishing him. And this sure bit him in those glorious buttcheeks 
