Sephiroth Was Never A Hero To Begin With

[PhantomSephiroth]

I agree. The Compilation needs a new villain. Which is a very hard thing to do on SE's part because Sephiroth has been one of the elements that defined FFVII in the first place. But he has to go.
:

Yeah....We've seen how well that worked out in DoC....Thing is, you can't throw away central characters like that. If you wnat to replace a character, it has to be one that has some form of connection.

And not dash your hopes or anything, but they clearly inted, with full intention, that Sephiroth was not done at the end of AC as well as saying in the Case of Lifestream that he cannot fully desolve in the Lifestream.

So they pretty much cornered themselves. I feel they should just leave FFVII alone.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't feel that Case of the Lifestream said he would never fully dissolve with the comment about the "strong will, one that would never join with the planet." Since that is from Aerith's perspective rather than an omniscient voice, it most likely just reflects the fact that Sephiroth would never willingly accept death, though he can still be forced into it if his will is weakened enough.

His own perspective in that story paints his endurance as all too finite:

"The man could sense the Lifestream trying to erode his spirit– the memories of his former experiences, thoughts and emotions. If he allowed himself be taken into the current, the being he once was would soon disseminate and disappear amongst the spirit energy cycling around the planet. The man thought this unacceptable. The planet was to be his to rule, and to become a part of that system would be nothing short of defeat."

 

[Wolfmania]

The thing is, we don't know if the OmnislashV6 was able to tear Sephiroth's spirit enough to the point that the Lifestream could feasibly crush his will.
The first time his spirit was torn to shreds by Cloud at the end of FFVII, Sephiroth empowered his will right back by getting rid of excess memory and focusing on the things that really mattered to him(making Cloud his core -- no deep-seated homo issues going on there, ofc), making his will, again, strong enough to not be crushed by the current.

The creator's could honestly spin this either way they liked. Either V6 did tear him up to the point where he could be absorbed/crushed/eroded, or the fact that he was still keeping his core to him means that his will was still too strong to be crushed by the current.
So they purposefully left this open to go either way, it seems. Which is why I think that if they decided to revive Sephiroth, again, the only way to logically keep him down for real would be if Cloud killed himself, stupid as that may be.

Idk. Sometimes I just wished that they left Cloud and Sephiroth's stories alone. Unlike most, I actually liked AC/C and the Novellas. I think they closed on a good note.

If they give me something with, idk, older Denzel and Genesis, I guess I wouldn't complain as much as others.

 

[Unlucky]

Yeah....We've seen how well that worked out in DoC....Thing is, you can't throw away central characters like that. If you wnat to replace a character, it has to be one that has some form of connection.

And not dash your hopes or anything, but they clearly inted, with full intention, that Sephiroth was not done at the end of AC as well as saying in the Case of Lifestream that he cannot fully desolve in the Lifestream.

So they pretty much cornered themselves. I feel they should just leave FFVII alone.

Just because DoC messed up doesn't mean that it's not possible to introduce a new villain.

I saw AC's ending as some sort of a tease so as to leave the impression that he might come back, but whatever route SE decides to take the Compilation, it would cheapen the overall storyline if he keeps coming back again and again and again.

I personally really want Jenova to be the main villain in the next title. In that way the story won't leap to a completely new arch, so there's the connection, and that the old concepts could be explored and expounded. And I always thought she's a fascinating villain anyway, much more than Sephy himself. I don't know how it could happen though

 

[jazzflower92]

Just because DoC messed up doesn't mean that it's not possible to introduce a new villain.

I saw AC's ending as some sort of a tease so as to leave the impression that he might come back, but whatever route SE decides to take the Compilation, it would cheapen the overall storyline if he keeps coming back again and again and again.

I personally really want Jenova to be the main villain in the next title. In that way the story won't leap to a completely new arch, so there's the connection, and that the old concepts could be explored and expounded. And I always thought she's a fascinating villain anyway, much more than Sephy himself. I don't know how it could happen though

Yeah,I always thought they missed a great opportunity at giving Jenova her time to shine because she is just a gold mine of hidden potential.Heck,I sometimes at times think she should have been made the co-main villain of the game.I even have a theory that maybe Jenova herself was once a goddess of another planet until she was corrupted into the form she is right now.I want Jenova to be more than a plot device because in my mind if she was a villainess a plot with her would defiantly make a great cosmic horror epic.I think with Jenova they wasted a perfectly good character.

 

[PhantomSephiroth]

Just because DoC messed up doesn't mean that it's not possible to introduce a new villain.

I saw AC's ending as some sort of a tease so as to leave the impression that he might come back, but whatever route SE decides to take the Compilation, it would cheapen the overall storyline if he keeps coming back again and again and again.

I personally really want Jenova to be the main villain in the next title. In that way the story won't leap to a completely new arch, so there's the connection, and that the old concepts could be explored and expounded. And I always thought she's a fascinating villain anyway, much more than Sephy himself. I don't know how it could happen though

That's interesting. I don't see how Jenova would be an interesting villain any more than The thing was.

Oh well, I guess only time will tell.

 

[jazzflower92]

In my head maybe Jenova should have a personality that resembles the Other Mother from Coraline.It would very much fit in Jenova's predatory nature to be warm and friendly at first but then until its too late attack her victims.I mean she did use the images of the Cetra's dead loves one in order to get close to them.

 

[Unlucky]

That's interesting. I don't see how Jenova would be an interesting villain any more than The thing was.

Perhaps more interesting than someone who's beaten thrice now

 

[jazzflower92]

Yeah,after Sephiroth failing three times Jenova would eventually just do her own work again.Maybe one way they could make her into a plausible villainess is maybe Sephiroth's merging with her has slowly gotten to make her stronger again.She is now gaining full conscious as well.

 

[ForceStealer]

I really don't take "I'll never be a memory" to mean "Sephiroth's definitely coming back." Villians say that stuff all the time. Do we think Necron would come back in a IX sequel like he said?
And Sephiroth DIDN'T say he'd be back in either of his other demises. I'm with Wolfmania, especially in conjunction with Case of Lifestream, I was fine with his appearance in AC, but not again.

 

[jazzflower92]

Whatever they do in the next installment all I have a feeling it would defiantly be a trainwreck.

 

[PhantomSephiroth]

For some reason, I wish it would end with Genesis and Seohiroth beating the shit out of eachother like in the end of MGS4...

I can dream, okay.

 

[jazzflower92]

I think everybody can agree on one thing is that Genesis is probably the worst thing about the Compliation.

 

[PhantomSephiroth]

I think everybody can agree on one thing is that Genesis is probably the worst thing about the Compliation.

huuuummmm.....


Maybe not...it migth get worst.....



Sadly...

 

[jazzflower92]

huuuummmm.....


Maybe not...it migth get worst.....



Sadly...

That is what I am very afraid of.

 

[PhantomSephiroth]

I really don't take "I'll never be a memory" to mean "Sephiroth's definitely coming back." Villians say that stuff all the time. Do we think Necron would come back in a IX sequel like he said?
And Sephiroth DIDN'T say he'd be back in either of his other demises. I'm with Wolfmania, especially in conjunction with Case of Lifestream, I was fine with his appearance in AC, but not again.

That may be, but that's assuming Sephiroth actually can desolve in the lifestream. After all, he's something foreign, alien. Maybe he would'n come back, but still have some form of influence.

That said, the more I think about it, the more I have problems with the concept of afterlife in FFVII.

 

[jazzflower92]

That may be, but that's assuming Sephiroth actually can desolve in the lifestream. After all, he's something foreign, alien. Maybe he would'n come back, but still have some form of influence.

That said, the more I think about it, the more I have problems with the concept of afterlife in FFVII.

So,it seems like Sephiroth will always be a problem that the planet can never fully fix.

 

[PhantomSephiroth]

meh....He might just calm down and do something like this for the rest of eternity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddf-3N1B5ww

 

[jazzflower92]

Now going back to the original topic if Sephiroth could be labeled as a hero before he turned evil.I think Sephiroth was more of a neutral person who had the ability to have empathy with others and had some decency even though he worked for a corrupt organization.Pre-Evil Sephiroth could be described as a kuudere which is a term for someone who looks aloof and apathetic on the outside but on the inside is really kind and soft.

 

[PhantomSephiroth]

Now going back to the original topic if Sephiroth could be labeled as a hero before he turned evil.I think Sephiroth was more of a neutral person who had the ability to have empathy with others and had some decency even though he worked for a corrupt organization.Pre-Evil Sephiroth could be described as a kuudere which is a term for someone who looks aloof and apathetic on the outside but on the inside is really kind and soft.

Gee, you made me realize how off topic we went.

I think you're right when saying that Sephiroth was more of a Neutral, but I still old that he did heroic stuff. After all, people won't consider you a Hero if you just sit around doing nothing. You may argue that he was ordered to do so, but it still takes some convictions, principles. To put in perspective: pigeons were use during WW1 to send message over battlefields. Of corse the birds homing instinct, but they still had to fly threw war where they could have simply flown away out of fear. Yet, most of them accomplished their mission, even those who were almost mortally wounded. Let that sink in for a moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op7GyuKgYlQ

 

[jazzflower92]

I think the best to describe preEvil Sephiroth is Heoric Neutral which is a person who is neutral but is willing to do heroic things when it comes down to it.The person I would compare pre-Evil Sephiroth to is Raven from Teen Titans.I mean the way he interacts with Zack sometimes reminds me of Raven and Beastboy's relationship.