Sephiroth: What the fuck happened?
- Thread starter Makoeyes987
- Start date
Aya
Juken Club
Hmm true but I believe he could of done things in a better way. Maybe leaving a letter
Anyway I do feel Sephiroth and it is a shame how things turned out for him. But after he absored the lifestream he has no excuses now for people too feel sorry for him now as he knows the truth. He and Genesis need a major reality check.
So felt sorry for him in CC and after the lifestream absorption not anymore, well just a little he did not asked to be born and experimented on by his mad parents. But I guess insanity runs in the family lol
Masamune
Fiat Lux
- AKA
- Masa
Sephiroth is incoherent because his plans are like something from a kids cartoon show. "I'm going to take the world and become a GOD! ...Why? Because humans suck and I'm superior! ...Even though it was actually just Shinra who screwed me over... but RAWRR!"
Now at least with Kefka, he was supposed to be insanely evil. His backstory was a mere irrelevance. Even then, Kefka's personality and rise to power created more than a 1D villain. Sephiroth didn't even have any character development or interesting quirks. He was a momma's boy with a tacked-on god complex.
megas_sephiroth
Pro Adventurer
In Nibleheim, it's because he believes Jenova is Cetra, hence so was he.
megas_sephiroth
Pro Adventurer
I was afraid you'd say that...
I don't know, perhaps to keep himself alive or to please mother.
Aya
Juken Club
Yeah I never really understood why Sephiroth decided he wanted to destroy Gaia after learning the truth in the lifestream and why he continued to call JENOVA "mother"
I mean the only people he should of been mad at are his parents and ShinRA.
But I supposse after Nibelheim there was no going back.
Yeah, I don't get the whole "I call Jenova my mother even though I know she's not thing". Must just be a way of giving credit to a thing who made up part of his genetic structure.
About the whole "mad at his parents thing", would he be mad at Lucrecia? I mean Gast and Hojo, I could understand, but after playing DoC and getting a better understanding of Lucrecia and Hojo's relationship, I think if she would have known what the Jenova cells were going to do and that Hojo planned to take Sephiroth away from her after she gave birth, do you think she still would have gone on with the experiment?
megas_sephiroth
Pro Adventurer
Most people wouldn't allow anyone to experiment on their children unless faced with extreme situations. Lucrecia allowed Sephiroth to be experimented on for the sake of science alone.
Other than that, I don't see why Sephiroth would have a grudge against his real mother. And that kinda pales when compared to what Hojo and ShinRa did to him.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
She did it for science sake yeah, but I also think she wasn't going to treat him like Hojo did. She would have raised him like any loving mother despite him being ShinRa property so to speak.
Just a thought, do you think, pre-Nibelheim, Sephiroth believed Gast was his father?
Aya
Juken Club
No sane caring mother would do that to their unborn baby. Even though they are scientists they had no idea what the experiments would do to Sephiroth. It could of give him brain damage, mental illness, physical disabilities. They had no idea what they where doing. Plus Lucrecia could of been really hurt by the experiements.
Even though Sephiroth should take it out on ShinRa and Hojo. I really don't think Lucreica should be left out of the equation a caring loving mother should never do that to a baby. And if it where me I wouldhate her just as much ShinRa and Hojo.
I also thought that Sephiroth thought that Professor Gast was his dad,
A Kuja and Sephiroth debate? Brings back memories.
Luckily I had something written up for just such an occasion.
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Thus Sephiroth's wants to rule the planet because...he just does.
vs.
Kuja: Oh, how I've longed for this day.
Kuja: ...the day I might finally cast away this mask to reveal my true self.
Kuja: The final act will take us away from Gaia, and I will kill my nemesis...with my own hand!
Kuja wants to kill Garland...because he’s just a cliche and evil?
Kuja: I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own!
It was either destroy Garland or Terra’s Resurrection would carry out and the Genomes, vessels for the true people of Terra, would be done for and Kuja’s soul would go to whoever it originated from.
Garland: I constructed the Genomes to be vessels for the souls of the people of Terra when they awaken.
What does Garland say of Kuja’s motivation?
Garland: He is only hiding it. He denies his own identity.
Garland: He rejects the meaning of his existence and tries to assert his own individuality.
Kuja doesn’t want to be seen as a someone else’s creation: as merely a vessel for someone else. He wants to establish his own power, his own will.
Kuja: The weak lose their freedom to the strong.
Kuja: Such is the way of the strong. And it is the providence of nature that only the strong survive.
Kuja: That is why I needed strength
Bu Kuja’s own assertions, it is the “providence of nature” that the weaker beings are subjugated by the stronger. He flatly acknowledges Garland is stronger than him and so he seeks to overcome this. As Hilda said
“ He was a hopeless narcissist”
For someone with such a strong will and ego as well as a philosophy that the strong should be the rulers of all below them, Kuja’s longing for power was a way to justify himself and defy his “destiny.”
Afterall, look at what it is that drives Kuja over the edge.
Garland: There's a limit on your life... You'll be dead soon...
Even as I die, you'll have died without ever leaving your mark on the world...
Kuja will never have the chance he longed for: to reject his existence, the life and destiny of a disposable tool.
Now witness fate’s ultimately cruel irony on the twisted and warped psyche of Kuja’s mind:
Kuja: What comedy! Zidane, isn't it hilarious!? I'll die just like the black mages I so despise!
Kuja: I single-handedly brought chaos unto Gaia, but in the end, I'm nothing but a worthless doll!
Despite his lifelong ambition to attain power to signify his individuality, he would die before he eve rhad the chance to build his “eternal kingdom.” Thus, in the desperate last acts of a man trying to elude the claws of death
Kuja): ...I won't let it happen.
Kuja: I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. IfI die, we all die!
In the mind of a half-crazed egotist of the highest order, the destruction of all lesser beings is the only right thing. He, Kuja, is the best and most powerful of all of them. By what right should they live while he perishes?
Kuja’s character and ambitions are merely something many fictional characters wrestle with: Fate. Destiny. The idea that free will is an illusion. Kuja tried to prove himself as an individual by attaining power. He ultimately failed because he could not escape his destiny.
However his final acts in life were to save Zidane and his friends.
His whole life he killed and took lives and was s alve to Garland and his own greed. However in the end he chose to save lives. Perhaps in that act alone he finally was free from his fate.
Luckily I had something written up for just such an occasion.
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Thus Sephiroth's wants to rule the planet because...he just does.
vs.
Kuja: Oh, how I've longed for this day.
Kuja: ...the day I might finally cast away this mask to reveal my true self.
Kuja: The final act will take us away from Gaia, and I will kill my nemesis...with my own hand!
Kuja wants to kill Garland...because he’s just a cliche and evil?
Kuja: I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own!
It was either destroy Garland or Terra’s Resurrection would carry out and the Genomes, vessels for the true people of Terra, would be done for and Kuja’s soul would go to whoever it originated from.
Garland: I constructed the Genomes to be vessels for the souls of the people of Terra when they awaken.
What does Garland say of Kuja’s motivation?
Garland: He is only hiding it. He denies his own identity.
Garland: He rejects the meaning of his existence and tries to assert his own individuality.
Kuja doesn’t want to be seen as a someone else’s creation: as merely a vessel for someone else. He wants to establish his own power, his own will.
Kuja: The weak lose their freedom to the strong.
Kuja: Such is the way of the strong. And it is the providence of nature that only the strong survive.
Kuja: That is why I needed strength
Bu Kuja’s own assertions, it is the “providence of nature” that the weaker beings are subjugated by the stronger. He flatly acknowledges Garland is stronger than him and so he seeks to overcome this. As Hilda said
“ He was a hopeless narcissist”
For someone with such a strong will and ego as well as a philosophy that the strong should be the rulers of all below them, Kuja’s longing for power was a way to justify himself and defy his “destiny.”
Afterall, look at what it is that drives Kuja over the edge.
Garland: There's a limit on your life... You'll be dead soon...
Even as I die, you'll have died without ever leaving your mark on the world...
Kuja will never have the chance he longed for: to reject his existence, the life and destiny of a disposable tool.
Now witness fate’s ultimately cruel irony on the twisted and warped psyche of Kuja’s mind:
Kuja: What comedy! Zidane, isn't it hilarious!? I'll die just like the black mages I so despise!
Kuja: I single-handedly brought chaos unto Gaia, but in the end, I'm nothing but a worthless doll!
Despite his lifelong ambition to attain power to signify his individuality, he would die before he eve rhad the chance to build his “eternal kingdom.” Thus, in the desperate last acts of a man trying to elude the claws of death
Kuja): ...I won't let it happen.
Kuja: I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. IfI die, we all die!
In the mind of a half-crazed egotist of the highest order, the destruction of all lesser beings is the only right thing. He, Kuja, is the best and most powerful of all of them. By what right should they live while he perishes?
Kuja’s character and ambitions are merely something many fictional characters wrestle with: Fate. Destiny. The idea that free will is an illusion. Kuja tried to prove himself as an individual by attaining power. He ultimately failed because he could not escape his destiny.
However his final acts in life were to save Zidane and his friends.
His whole life he killed and took lives and was s alve to Garland and his own greed. However in the end he chose to save lives. Perhaps in that act alone he finally was free from his fate.
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
Lucrecia is a fucking bitch and I have no sympathy for her.
You're right, no loving mother would dare use her child for an experiment. I wouldn't call her a mother either considering she never fought to even see her child. Didn't Hojo take him away from her right after giving birth? I seriously think, despite what all she did, she would have raised him to the best of her abilities. And, am I the only one who thinks Hojo knew something more about Jenova before Gast was ever told she was a killing bitch?
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
How could Hojo have learned of anything regarding Jenova before Gast, when all of his research, knowledge and insight into Jenova came from Gast to begin with? He plagiarized his research regarding the truth of Jenova's origin and Reunion theory.
Aya
Juken Club
Yey finally! Someone who hates Lucrecia! My friends when they played on DoC felt sorry for her and blamed EVERYTHING on Hojo
. Thank you The Notorious M.O.G and I had no sympathy towards her. She's just a evil bitch.And Gale exactly it makes more sense why Sephiroth would feel more of a connection to an alien than his mother. She was the one person who should of protected but chose not to.
She saw flashes of what he would do instead of going into that bloody cave, why didn't she fight more for Sephiroth? If she had if brought him up things might of turned out differently or maybe not...after all she's an evil bitch lol
In fact out of Hojo and Lucrecia I get more mad her simply for the fact that Hojo clearly is not in the right mind of thinking.
Quick question how come Hojo never did tell Sephiroth that he was the father?
I don't know, to me he just seemed to know a little more than others.
megas_sephiroth
Pro Adventurer
I agree, I think she would have treated Sephiroth as any loving mother.
I think he knew Hojo was his father, remeber when he starts talking about his "family" in Nibelheim? When he's about to talk about his father he stop and starts laughing, he stops and says something like "what does it matter?"
I alwas interpreted that as him knowing and not wanting to talk about it, as he actually calls Hojo a "walking mass of complexes" or something to that effect. He clearly has despises Hojo.
Also, Hojo did not know more about Jenova than Gast. He was simply not willing to stop the experiments no matter what Gast had found out about Jenova.
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I don't know. To me, considering how much Sephiroth held Gast in such a high regard, he could have been laughing at the thought that Gast was really his father, but what loving father would leave his son to the hands of a psychotic made man just for a simple identification mistake. I'm more pissed at Gast than Lucrecia, because he wasn't willing to face his mistake and take responsibility for what he started.